Toyota Supra (A90)

  • Thread starter RocZX
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I'd take the new Supra any day over any of the previous generations. I love the A80 and I do want to own one some day, but you can't argue with better handling, more horsepower, great interior (especially compared to what Toyota would have made without BMW input and materials) great styling in my opinion obviously, and the car just being an overall better package with a solid auto with paddle shifters. I could care less if it's a BMW chassis and drivetrain. Maybe that's because I'm not necessarily a Supra fanboy that thinks the A80 was the best car ever made. It is a great car when it is tuned. That is what made it great. I feel like some people see the A80 Supra as this monster from the factory when in reality it was not. It was a fast car for the time don't get me wrong, but it truly became a legendary car because of what people were able to do with it. That was when the Supra truly became great. That is why you need to give the new car a chance. Let it build its own legacy and not constantly say that it hasn't lived up to a legacy created by the previous model when it hans't even been released yet.

Let's look at our options, as @LongbowX said, they could have based it on the RC or LC and used a Lexus V8, but then you'd have people complaining about no straight six! Toyota could have developed an entirely new "3jz" engine like people are begging for. However, that would have likely driven up prices dramatically which would therefor require GTR performance levels to justify the higher price. You would then have people complaining about the high price. Or they could use a BMW straight 6, put in in a great chassis and develop their own tune, suspension setup, and design that incorporates past Supra design elements in order to create an exceptional sports car. You still have the what is essentially a modern A80 Supra. This car is not a rebadge. Something like a BRZ/86GT is an actual rebadge.

On a side note for everyone who would rather have a manual, they have not ruled out a manual at this point so there's still hope. I don't mind it not having a manual though just for performance reasons. I love manuals, I happen to own one, and I agree that the new car should have that option for those who would rather give up a little bit of performance on the track and in a straight line in exchange to feeling more connected to the car. I get that and it is important but it just might not be cost effective in Today's market. We'll have to see what Toyota does in the next couple years.
 
The thing I liked about the last Supra was that it was a testament to Toyota's engineering expertise, can't really say the same for this car. I also could not care less about having a slightly faster auto/semi auto transmission. I like feeling more involved with the drive.

I do hope it does well though, just so it encourages Toyota and other manufacturers to build more cars like this.
 
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MatskiMonk
I agree the S55 is unlikely to go into the Supra whilst the M2C is on the scene, but BMW M-Power I6's, V8's and V10's have been used by other low volume manufacturers, and their non M engines have been used plenty of times, so there is precedent.

edit: Alpina take the non-M I6 to over 400hp, that's a mash-up I'd like to see... even if it'll never happen.
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Given how the s55 sounds, might just be a good thing. And the regular series engines don't seem to be any less tunable.
 
I'm not wow'ed by it, but it's not awful either. I think part of it has to do with Toyota dragging its feet for years on it and letting the hypetrain grow and grow. It seems like almost everyone had this grand vision of the Supra, while Toyota just wanted to capitalize on a bit of nostalgia and bring out something that required little effort and prints money.

The 155mph limiter on the track is a bit amusing though. Like why would you limit the car on the track? I suspect an oddly specific Nurburgring record in the future.
 
mustafur
What cars are those, are any of those cars even current M engines?

I can name cars Audi and Mercedes have supplied RS and AMG sourced current(at the time)engines(think Spyker with the 4.2L out of the RS4 and the current Aston Martin Vantage).
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Weismann and Ascari were the first two that sprang to mind for contemporary engines, can't remember if any of the Morgan's had an M V8 or not... McLaren of course as well win the S76. Not sure about currently without googling it... but in any case there's precedent, even if I can't see it happening.
 
Joey D
I'm not wow'ed by it, but it's not awful either. I think part of it has to do with Toyota dragging its feet for years on it and letting the hypetrain grow and grow. It seems like almost everyone had this grand vision of the Supra, while Toyota just wanted to capitalize on a bit of nostalgia and bring out something that required little effort and prints money.

The 155mph limiter on the track is a bit amusing though. Like why would you limit the car on the track? I suspect an oddly specific Nurburgring record in the future.
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Yeah, I think the gap between this and the MKIV was just long enough for the old car to gain this enormous cult following. I mean, it always had one, but it seems so much more universal now than in the early aughts, when pretty much all it was known for was being a dyno queen.

We now have people who were very young kids — or not even born yet :eek: — when the first F&F came out, now old enough to drive. They've grown up with the A80 as a hero, so really almost nothing was going to live up to the hype.

Weirdly enough, I'd say only the GT-R has avoided that particular issue. People still worship the R34, but the modern GT-R is so different from what came before that I feel like they both occupy a very different space in the enthusiast landscape.
 
Gran Turismo is what introduced me to the Supra, the one with the shopping cart handle for a rear wing and weird decals in the F&F was way too over the top for me.
 
Main complaints are it isn't the FT-1. I'm at the age where I'm glad it's back.
Remember the FTHS concept from 2007?
IMG_6346.JPG

It became the FT86, but just noticed the red interior on one side concept, seems to to have been implemented in the A90:
IMG_6345.JPG
 
I dig the design and don't mind the BMW powertrain. It's a sharp car and seems like it handles pretty well. In a few years after graduation to be in a position to buy a decent sports car (realistically I'll probably have a lower price range), but without a manual transmission I wouldn't even consider it.
 
McLaren
That’s pretty common actually. The Z4 Concept did a 2-tone interior as well.
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Ah, okay. Is that something BMW we're doing around the time of that FTHS concept?
Just saying, other than high end cars like Aston, RR, etc, where customers can customise interiors to that degree.
 
If Toyota never gave us the FT1 concept I think I'd like this Supra more... Guess we're gonna have to overnight parts from Austria instead of Japan now....

Maybe it's just the idea knowing that the Supra's rivals from the 90's and 00's like the NSX and GTR came back with supercar levels of performance and this came back with slightly better on paper performance than a 10 year old 370Z, but that's just coming from someone who's never driven the new Supra. For all I know it could be absolutely brilliant to drive.
 
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Which driver? C'mon, we all know every Toyota driver will be running something Supra-shaped within 12 months. :lol:
 
I just cannot stress enough how disastrously ugly this car is. God damn. It is disgusting. Short wheelbase, long overhangs, reasonable proportions but a monumental hood that absolutely dwarfs 19 inch wheels. What on earth is under that hood? Don't forget that this car is the same overall size as a GT86, but with a shorter wheelbase, but is somehow 400 pounds heavier, and orders of magnitude uglier than the 86. When the FT-1 concept came out, we all probably thought this car was the same size as the Lexus LC. No. This thing is barely bigger than a Miata, yet it visually dwarfs its 19 inch wheels. That is the hallmark of a terrible, awful car design.
 
SlipZtrEm
We now have people who were very young kids — or not even born yet :eek: — when the first F&F came out, now old enough to drive. They've grown up with the A80 as a hero...
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This group of people should have been Toyota's target demographic. Honda has been playing this game and winning.

1. Honda Civic bought by the elderly.
2. Gets passed down to kids as their first car/starter vehicle.
3. Those kids create cult following of Civics beyond what Honda originally planned.
4. Honda goes with it and makes latest gen Civics a sporty car (have you seen the new Civics and Accords?) that cater towards this new age group
5. ???
6. Profit

Toyota's new Supra is aimed towards the middle aged man that is considering a sporty alternative to a bland saloon, such as the Z4, the Cayman, the KIA Stinger GT, etc.
When in reality, the people who have been aching for a new Supra are the ones that bought the GT86/BRZ/FRS, 370Z and even the MX5. Despite what the Supra once was, this is their main demographic and I think they completely missed their mark.
 
TheCrazySwede
1. Honda Civic bought by the elderly.
2. Gets passed down to kids as their first car/starter vehicle.
3. Those kids create cult following of Civics beyond what Honda originally planned.
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Kids definitely don't like the Civic because that's what they got as a first car. They like it because of what it could be. Because of what we never got in America.

The big following of Civics was because of these:

ek9.jpg


nsx-r_1.jpg


1_dfcfc1aff72a2aeb4ee4f763aeb1aab6.jpg


Honda-NSX-GT500-17313.jpg




And definitely not because of this :lol:

1960_1352635_17694942_4363003362018.jpg
 
I wonder who's going to buy the SZ version instead of a cheaper and similarly powered GT86.

Also can't wait for the inevitable GRMN version with more power and aero goodies :D
 
ProjectWHaT
Kids definitely don't like the Civic because that's what they got as a first car. They like it because of what it could be. Because of what we never got in America.
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But financially, the NSX isn't doing too well, and the Type R isn't flying off the shelves either, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove cause neither one of those cars are as popular here, despite being available to the US market and quite a bargain (Type R).

And yet you see college students all over the country in brand new Civics and Accords, because someone in their family owned it, usually the parents, and because of this demographic, the new Civics and Accords are sportier than ever. You didn't see this demohraphic represented in such a huge % 20 years ago.

It's not just Civics, either. There are countless stories of someone's dad having a pickup truck that they loved and the son grows up and buys the new one, regardless if it was "boring" to anybody else - that car meant something to you.

That's the same reason why the Supra became popular - the tuner scene. Finding an unmodified Supra is very hard in North America (talking about 2JZ's w/ manual) because the car got a tuner following. Those same people that idolized that car for that reason are now the target demographic for this new one - which is where Toyota dropped the ball.
 
LeGeNd-1
I wonder who's going to buy the SZ version instead of a cheaper and similarly powered GT86.

Also can't wait for the inevitable GRMN version with more power and aero goodies :D
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I'd say preppie looking at a more upscale interior.

While the 86 is 110kg lighter, the Supra has 320Nm of torque over the 86's 205. 0-100 is nearly a second slower in the 86.

Now, the average consumer, that just wants this car because it's the new thing, ain't gonna care. Someone that may be looking at a used 86/BR-Z might not be looking at the Supra.

Just a quick side. When the TT came out. Some people got the 180hp spec. Tuner APR came out with a chip tune for $500 and brought that figure up to the 225hp TT spec. This is what I'm expecting for the Supra. Those markets that have the SZ, a tune may be able to get that figure up to the 258hp of the SZ-R.

Anyway, we'll see if people are trading in 86s and BR-Zs to upgrade to a Supra.
 
TheCrazySwede
But financially, the NSX isn't doing too well, and the Type R isn't flying off the shelves either, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove cause neither one of those cars are as popular here, despite being available to the US market and quite a bargain (Type R).
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What I meant was there's a car enthusiast cult following of Civics not because they had Civics as a kid (as you claimed), but because of the many sports cars Honda produced years ago that America never got. So to substitute the lack of sports cars, kids modded Civics as they were cheap and parts are abundant.

TheCrazySwede
And yet you see college students all over the country in brand new Civics and Accords, because someone in their family owned it, usually the parents, and because of this demographic, the new Civics and Accords are sportier than ever. You didn't see this demohraphic represented in such a huge % 20 years ago.
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Civics and Accords are well known for being safe, cheap family cars. Most kids who are not car enthusiasts will know these cars because of their popularity as good family cars. So from the name recognition, they would buy one. Any sportiness that the Civic and Accord do have will not be noticed by the majority of people who buy. They buy them because they're well known to be good, safe family cars.

TheCrazySwede
It's not just Civics, either. There are countless stories of someone's dad having a pickup truck that they loved and the son grows up and buys the new one, regardless if it was "boring" to anybody else - that car meant something to you.
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This does happen, but car makers can't do anything to promote this as long as they make it. As you say, the car could be boring and not sporty, and yet those people who had the car impact their lives will still buy it despite it being boring or sporty.

TheCrazySwede
That's the same reason why the Supra became popular - the tuner scene. Finding an unmodified Supra is very hard in North America (talking about 2JZ's w/ manual) because the car got a tuner following. Those same people that idolized that car for that reason are now the target demographic for this new one - which is where Toyota dropped the ball.
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I don't think they dropped the ball necessarily. As cars age, people age. The people who owned the original Supra are older now. They may want something softer and relatively more luxurious. The new Supra that was co-developed by BMW would definitely fit the bill. Aftermarket part makers will definitely make a lot of parts for the new Supra, so those who want it will not be disappointed. Although yes, the die-hard manual and old school people will not like it, but at this point, I think Toyota already knew that the new Supra will not be able to appeal to them. It's no longer the 2000s. Times have moved on, there are better, more efficient engines than a 2JZ and a manual.

Also, this is a personal opinion, but I've always thought marketing for kids, especially college grads, is not the best idea. Especially when tuition is so expensive and rent is so high in a lot of places, most kids just don't have the money to be able to buy a new car. How could they afford a new car when they still need to pay back college loans?
 
RandomCarGuy17
However, that just leads to one more curious thought I have. Knowing the RC's platform would lead to a heavier car, would that be completely bad? I mean, what about the other cars in a similar weight class to the RC such as the Mercedes-AMG, Ford Mustang GT, and BMW M4? From what I've heard from people, the Supra was always more of a GT car than a sports car anyway; so wouldn't that mean it would be more faithful if Toyota took that approach? I'm sorry if it seems like I'm pressing on this too long, this is just something that's been on my mind lately.
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Potentially - I even joked about that in the post you quoted. But I'm glad Toyota hasn't taken the "make it bigger, heavier and more powerful" approach like virtually everyone else, and has instead redesigned the Supra as a proper modern sports car.

To play devil's advocate, people would almost certainly have complained about the new Supra if it had been based on the RC too...

I think maybe people get too hung up on what a previous generation of car was like when debating the merits of a new one. By the time the A80 came along the Supra was already very different to how it started, which was as a stretched Celica to fit a six-cylinder engine in. Given the A90 is pretty similar in size to a GT86 (itself a car that could be considered a spiritual successor to previous Celicas), a compact six-cylinder sports car is no more or less appropriate than a big heavy GT, as the Supra ended up.
 
With the power and torque of its big turbo 6, together with all its gizmos, this thing will be a true asphalt ripper, gobbling up road like Godzilla eats cities. I owned a new Supra four decades ago, my favorite personal car other than my 1968 Z28. I can see some classic enduring retro bloodlines in this new Supra.

supra4.jpg
A race-going version of the Supra will appear in Japan’s Super GT series starting in 2020, when Super GT adopts Class One regulations that have been developed jointly with Europe’s DTM series.

img_1410.jpg


In the United States, the Supra body will replace that of the Camry as Toyota’s race car in the NASCAR Xfinity Series this year
 

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