CodeRedR51
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February update? đź’ˇ
Toyota Supra (A90)
- Thread starter RocZX
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- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
GR Supra Racing Concept reveal - March 2018
GR Supra Racing arrives in GT Sport - April 2018
Supra GT500 Concept reveal - January 2019
Production GR Supra reveal - January 2019
A February update likely containing both cars alone or as part of wider content could be possible.
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- 1,330
- US. North East region
Toyota couldn't build this without tapping BMW for the platform?
- 1,938
- Sweden
Toyota have more expensive cars in general. If you campare it to Nissan and Honda. The new supra is not a good value 335 hp for this price is ridiculous. The zl1 is Only $8k more not 12k.
All 3 Chevrolet has way more Bang for the buck. I would never spend that kind of money on the Toyota when their is better cheaper cars you can get that even will perform better.
- 7,939
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- PrecisionXCIV
It's possible, but creating an entirely new platform from scratch is extremely expensive and there is absolutely no chance Toyota would make a return on investment creating a bespoke sports car in the current, crossover-adoring market.
The existing RWD platforms they are utilising would not be appropriate for a Supra; The ZN6 platform only suits a lightweight boxer engine and the Lexus RC platform is too heavy.
UltimateYosh
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- UltimateYosh
Muscle cars like the Camaro are basically designed to get as much performance for as little money possible. Although it isn't as bad as it once was, the interiors and material quality of those GM cars or even a Mustang or Challenger isn't anywhere near as nice as a normal Toyota, let alone the Supra which is basically a BMW.
The Supra was never about bang-for-buck. It's being positioned against cars like the Porsche Cayman, and that explains the price. I still don't get why you get hung up over Horsepower numbers. O-60 in 4.1 seconds is still fast and you would be able to actually use the supra's power more often than a ZL1, for example.
- 11,791
- Marin County
The base SZ model Supra is interesting.
It will be less powerful, less practical, and heavier (200+ lbs, I might add) than the GT86 for probably quite a bit more money. It will still probably be faster due the unique way the GT86 manages to feel like it has 20hp less than it does, but from a marketing standpoint, that seems like a tough sell.
That said, the SZ-R could be compelling. Maybe the body won't be so aggro on the 4-cylinder models?
It will be less powerful, less practical, and heavier (200+ lbs, I might add) than the GT86 for probably quite a bit more money. It will still probably be faster due the unique way the GT86 manages to feel like it has 20hp less than it does, but from a marketing standpoint, that seems like a tough sell.
That said, the SZ-R could be compelling. Maybe the body won't be so aggro on the 4-cylinder models?
McLaren
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Same reason BMW unveiled their car first. There's clearly an agreement that BMW gets the upper hand in the end game between both manufacturers.
If we go down the route of comparing those cars, starting with the Ford for example, a Mustang GT Bullitt starts under $30,000, same 0-60, but packing an additional 145Hp. If we go the Performance Package route, the price gets much closer at $45,000, 460Hp, a 0-60 of 4.3, but a track capable car that's been compared to the BMW M4. Or if money isn't an object, the GT350 sits just a $1,000 more than the Supra, but I'm not sure the Supra can overcome the GT350's purpose-built track genetics.
For Chevrolet, a 1SS LE starts at $50,000 & was recently compared to a M2 Competition, sporting 455Hp, & a 0-60 of 3.9. The car got within' a half a second of the old Z/28 track car. The Corvette punches like the GT350; same price segment, 450hp+, better 0-60, but I think the Supra may surprise the Stingray on the track. You typically need to buy a Grand Sport and above to really see what a Corvette's track prowess is & Toyota was smart enough to stay away from that price bracket; you get more into the European competitors & bigger bang for the buck sports cars.
The Dodge isn't a comparable car, imo. The Challenger is will likely have a similar 0-60, gobs more power, but will best the Supra in a quarter mile run where as the Supra will likely run circles on the track. 2 similar performance cars on stat sheets, built for very different ideas of racing.
Basically, as I've said before, the Supra's track capabilities are going to make or break it in the US market. Our old muscle cars have now not only gotten more of the bang-for-buck horsepower, but they've gotten fast in the turns. I thought the Supra would launch with the 382Hp motor, as essentially 400Hp looks good on paper for comparisons and price. Having 335Hp however, not so much. I have a lot of faith Toyota has worked some old rival Honda-esque magic so the car's horsepower doesn't hamper what it can really do in lap times (a la NSX), but that's ultimately where it's going to have to justify its price stateside, after the hype as gone down. I think the battle would be a lot easier if Toyota had mated a manual gearbox for the purists, but I suspect the fact they chose BMW to basically build their blueprint hampered that.
Again, I think it can do it. I believe it's a good pricing bracket that will allow it to surprise some of the similar priced performance cars, and stay away just enough to not be compared to the more expensive cars in price or performance directly. But against the cars Mike brought up, I don't have any doubts the Mustang at the least, will best the Supra any way you cut it.
Modifying BMW motors are notoriously expensive & sometimes, don't yield very much. For Supra's sake, hopefully it'll just be the badge that dictates how much it'll cost to make power from that motor.
- 1,938
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Have you even seen how the latest challenger look inside. Its pretty luxary. If you campare it to the mustang and camaro. Just face it that the new supra, is an overpriced rebadged BMW z4
UltimateYosh
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- UltimateYosh
Sage Ages
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The only cars I really see undercutting the Supra so far are the 1LE Camaro and the Performance Package Mustangs. The Corvette that you want is a full $10k more than the base Supra and the Corvette you don't want still costs more than the Premium. The Cayman is way out there in terms of pricing.
How the Supra stacks up against all of these on a track, who knows. We'll just have to wait and see.
How the Supra stacks up against all of these on a track, who knows. We'll just have to wait and see.
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They could, but decided to play it safe.
McLaren
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CodeRedR51
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- bramturismo
McLaren
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Sounds like you're paying more for dyno time. None of those prices include shop labor or dyno runs. Dyno tuning here is around $100/hour minimum.
- 3,987
- Chicago
- fortbo
- fortbo
Shouldn't make a difference when it comes to remapping an ECU.
Also, @MikeV27 there's plans to introduce a manual in the future. Yes, it is slightly sad to see manuals dying out, but I still would take a lightning fast auto any day over a manual, but that might just be my inner lap time junky kicking in...
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UltimateYosh
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I see a lot of people comparing the last-gen Supra to this new one, but still retaining the value of a used Supra and a brand new car off the lot. If my memory serves me right, the original Supra wasn't far off this new one in terms of price and performance. In fact, they are extremely close. The old Supra is currently viewed as a pop culture icon, so comparing directly to its "comeback album" isn't quite as fair - but if compared quite simply as a product of their respective eras, I'd say Toyota delivered a Supra; not the way we remembered it, but the way it actually was. Once this thing ends up buried in aftermarket galore, we'll be seeing 600whp Supra's again.
My biggest worry is the direction of the car. I would think it would have been wiser to market the car to more prospective buyers by directing it towards the demographic that worships this car the most, but instead its selling itself as an alternative to the Porsche Cayman. A spec sheet is one thing, but there are many perks that come along with Porsche ownership, including the various services and programs Porsche has available for their customers and the premium experience that goes with it - not to mention the fact that it's a very nimble mid engined car. I'm surprised to see Toyota wanting to go toe-to-toe with a car that even BMW doesn't even box with it, unless you get the more expensive BMW M2, despite the fact that the Toyota is an obvious relative to the current gen Z4.
A $50k MSRP with dealer markups (lets not forget the Focus RS and the GT350 in the US market, and even the KIA Stinger), for a sports car with a missed third pedal, wanting to dance with a mid engines Porsche. Seems to me like the biggest benefit is having a BMW, but paying Toyota money for it with Japanese warranty to boot - and that, to me, seems like a miss in direction on Toyota's part. Those who would have otherwise loved a new Supra, probably weren't looking for a cheaper Z4.
My biggest worry is the direction of the car. I would think it would have been wiser to market the car to more prospective buyers by directing it towards the demographic that worships this car the most, but instead its selling itself as an alternative to the Porsche Cayman. A spec sheet is one thing, but there are many perks that come along with Porsche ownership, including the various services and programs Porsche has available for their customers and the premium experience that goes with it - not to mention the fact that it's a very nimble mid engined car. I'm surprised to see Toyota wanting to go toe-to-toe with a car that even BMW doesn't even box with it, unless you get the more expensive BMW M2, despite the fact that the Toyota is an obvious relative to the current gen Z4.
A $50k MSRP with dealer markups (lets not forget the Focus RS and the GT350 in the US market, and even the KIA Stinger), for a sports car with a missed third pedal, wanting to dance with a mid engines Porsche. Seems to me like the biggest benefit is having a BMW, but paying Toyota money for it with Japanese warranty to boot - and that, to me, seems like a miss in direction on Toyota's part. Those who would have otherwise loved a new Supra, probably weren't looking for a cheaper Z4.
