Toyota Supra (A90)

[ScottPuss20]

I’d argue it’s something of a family feature for the nameplate. It certainly does give something of an A80 feel from certain angles.

So the Supra disappeared from our shores in '98, with 320hp, roughly 3400lb, and a price tag hitting $40k. It returns 20 years later with 15 more ponies, 50 more pounds, and $10k up on its sticker. The only car that's maintained that level of consistency would be something like the Miata.

That's why I like it.

 

[infamousphil]

With the new Supra making under 400hp and driving only the rear wheels, it ain't much vs the R35. But a 370Z?... interesting match up

 

[Veinz]

The z is an ancient relic.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think our community represents a reasonable crossection of car enthusiasts. I'd charitably give the Supra a "mixed" reception based on the responses so far. Probably few of us would be in a position to buy it, so Toyota may or may not care about our group. (I'd argue they should, however, as a significant part of the Supra's meteoric rise to certified classic is directly because of Gran Turismo).

I am curious about the people who will buy the Supra. (For the purpose of this post I'm going to disregard the Supra super-fans who would buy it just because it's a Supra.) I'd imagine most people in the market for this car are in their mid to late 30s to early 50s making over $100k/year. They don't want a Porsche or BMW, maybe because of the badge and the fear of maintenance costs (I can empathize). They don't want a Mustang (/Camaro/Challenger) or Corvette because they are either too mainstream or uncouth. They don't want a 370Z because it is kinda nasty.

So maybe the Supra is the unpretentious Porsche Cayman with Toyota reliability? The problem I see with that is that it looks super pretentious...meaning it looks like it's trying really hard to be a supercar (more than a Cayman, I'd say) but it isn't a supercar. Who knows what the maintenance costs will be, but it seems to be mostly BMW under there...

Or maybe the Supra is the refined everyday performance car? The problem I see with that is that the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger lot have become quite good at that already and are cheaper/faster, not to mention far more practical. I will say that it looks much more special than any of these pony cars.

I think the Supra's biggest obstacle is the C7 Corvette. It is probably a better looking car for most people (speculative, but I think not unreasonable) and it should have the Supra's number in terms of performance. It probably is a little more practical as well. And they are such similar money. The 'Vette is probably the easier to maintain over the long run. I might, personally, pick the Supra over the C7 purely because it's kind of the left-field choice, but I'll definitely be curious to see what the market thinks.

I actually quite like the concept and the market placement of the Supra. I like that they haven't prioritized enormous power. I like that it's a relatively simple car. I think the price is pretty appropriate. I like that it will come with engine options. I like the size and configuration. I like that it's a unique product. I just hate how it looks. As with the 86, I think what will ultimately hold me back from really liking the Supra is that it is a design failure in my eyes. I think they got nervous about trying to sell a $60,000 Toyota that wasn't very striking, and went the conservative design route and made it ultra-expressive. Ah, oh well.

 

[Famine]

I'd charitably give the Supra a "mixed" reception based on the responses so far.

Shmee has bought one, thus it is now officially utterly ruined.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Shmee has bought one, thus it is now officially utterly ruined.

Retract everything I said.

 

[GT Sport]

Wait 20 years..
Your kids will look at this and say that's a legend!

 

[mustafur]

Looking at YT comments on this car 99% are negative.

Granted most people might be under 18, but the people that grew up around the mk4 would be at the age to afford this one so who knows.

 

[Veinz]

I get the impression that most don’t like it since it’s essentially a BMW underneath. Not a “real” Supra per say.

 

[Keef]

I get the impression that most don’t like it since it’s essentially a BMW underneath. Not a “real” Supra per say.

It's got lug bolts instead of lug nuts. That's an automatic don't-buy from me. Lug bolts can burn in Euro hell.

 

[Nessy]

SO MUCH DESIGN. That has to be one of the most complicated door skins ever put into a production car.

I was thinking that too. Was curious to see the extra panel, but come to think of it, it would be quite expensive to manufacture/press the sheet metal into such a complex shape, so kind of makes sense (and imo is a great solution) to go about it the way they have.

Overall I think the car is unmistakably a Supra. It’s not really my cup of tea though, as I still think it looks too bulbous over those wheelarches. Was never a huge fan of the A80 but I think this new car captures the essence well.

 

[Sage Ages]

I'm just gonna wait patiently for the ridiculous Veilside/AbFlug/Top Secret widebody conversions for this thing. Maybe that'll fix how it looks.

 

[Veinz]

I love how it looks, not exactly pretty but distinctive.

 

[enthusia]

From a casual consumer's viewpoint: All around, this is a really cool design! Super aggressive exterior, sick interior, good power.
Enthusiast's viewpoint: Toyota wtf is this?

 

[05XR8]

Short term yes, but in the long term when it's 15 minutes of fame is up, I'm no so sure.

I see a lot of people comparing the last-gen Supra to this new one, but still retaining the value of a used Supra and a brand new car off the lot. If my memory serves me right, the original Supra wasn't far off this new one in terms of price and performance. In fact, they are extremely close. The old Supra is currently viewed as a pop culture icon, so comparing directly to its "comeback album" isn't quite as fair - but if compared quite simply as a product of their respective eras, I'd say Toyota delivered a Supra; not the way we remembered it, but the way it actually was. Once this thing ends up buried in aftermarket galore, we'll be seeing 600whp Supra's again.

My biggest worry is the direction of the car. I would think it would have been wiser to market the car to more prospective buyers by directing it towards the demographic that worships this car the most, but instead its selling itself as an alternative to the Porsche Cayman. A spec sheet is one thing, but there are many perks that come along with Porsche ownership, including the various services and programs Porsche has available for their customers and the premium experience that goes with it - not to mention the fact that it's a very nimble mid engined car. I'm surprised to see Toyota wanting to go toe-to-toe with a car that even BMW doesn't even box with it, unless you get the more expensive BMW M2, despite the fact that the Toyota is an obvious relative to the current gen Z4.

A $50k MSRP with dealer markups (lets not forget the Focus RS and the GT350 in the US market, and even the KIA Stinger), for a sports car with a missed third pedal, wanting to dance with a mid engines Porsche. Seems to me like the biggest benefit is having a BMW, but paying Toyota money for it with Japanese warranty to boot - and that, to me, seems like a miss in direction on Toyota's part. Those who would have otherwise loved a new Supra, probably weren't looking for a cheaper Z4.

This is the direction Toyota have for the Supra

When asked on how to measure the success of the new Supra, Mr Tada said the company would not look at its sales performance, but rather the reaction it garners from fans of the car.

“The goal for a Toyota sportscar is not to sell a lot, but to really to sell Supra to fans who like cars a lot,” he said.

“So, to index the success of a sportscar is really hard. I think that’s why for many of the car companies, it’s really hard to make a sportscar. If you can sell more it’s good, but it’s not (a priority) for a sportscar.”

Toyota Australia public affairs manager Brodie Bott agreed that sales will not be the measuring stick for the Supra’s success, but the model will help shift the way Toyota is perceived in terms of performance and excitement.

“In terms of sales, I think its job as a halo car is far more important than the sales targets, because to be completely honest with you, the volumes in the first year won’t be big,” he said.

“So, it’s not about getting them out there, it’s about the job it does to build the Toyota brand.

Australia limited to 300 units first year
Toyota Australia has not ruled out the lower-tier Supras for local market consumption, but said its focus is on launching the six-cylinder version first.
Also fitted at no extra cost to the Aussie Supra will be an active differential that operates via a dedicated electronic control unit and monitors inputs such as steering angle, throttle application, engine speed and yaw rate for improved grip.

That 1410kg weight for the SZ, still gets me. It's 150kg more than the 86, but it's quicker. Should be a good base to start with. Almost like a stripped out version(even though it's pretty much engine weight and features). I seriously want to see a tune for it.

 

[seowgila]

http://www.speedhunters.com/2019/01/wheres-my-3jz-bro-a90-supra/

I'm going to say i vaguely remember smokey nagata saying in another SH article years ago that he was quite interested in the bmw engine. Or it could have come out my arse.

 

[TonyJZX]

As soon as Shmee buys it, I lose interest.

But yeah I skimmed thru his vid because I dont like his voice etc. and at least we can see that its like the Mercedes X class.

The car is a BMW with a Toyota steering wheel. The dash is just wholesale BMW.

ZZZZ.... or more correctly ZZZZZ55555....

 

[mustafur]

The wheel is BMW as well look at it closely.

 

[GTFan24]

Good lord this has literally become a damn GTS Whining thread. Instead its over a car that hasn't been seen in 20 years this time and got an expected new look.


I look foward when everyone all of a sudden appreciates this car 2 years from now instead of complaining about every damn thing it has from top to bottom every 5 seconds.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Needs the Mk IV rear wing and double quadruple taillights, but otherwise I like it (though no surprises on the design front given how long it's been teased). Finally a car that doesn't grow in size/weight/power with each new generation (looking at you NSX).

With the new GT-R on the horizon, we are properly back in 90s JDM vibe. Just needs Mazda to join the fun with the RX9 Skyactiv HCCI rotary And Mitsu to bring back the Evo...but on second thought, probably not as they'll just turn it into an SUV like the Eclipse

 

[Epic B]

The new Z4 coupe is looking pretty good. What I wanna see them put in is the engine from the M4.

 

[CarreraGT]

I really want to love it but I'm struggling. Perhaps I would like it more if it weren't for the FT-1. This just looks Bland and proportionally odd in comparison...

Also it's completely irrelevant to me (and others no doubt) without a manual

 

[FT-1]

http://www.speedhunters.com/2019/01/wheres-my-3jz-bro-a90-supra/

I'm going to say i vaguely remember smokey nagata saying in another SH article years ago that he was quite interested in the bmw engine. Or it could have come out my arse.

As is the way of the internet, the indignant are always the loudest, so you would be forgiven for thinking that the entire world was up in arms about the new Supra. I’m not sure what these people were expecting. Toyota were hardly going to put a 28 year old engine into a new chassis or invest an absurd amount of money into creating an all new 3JZ for a product that will likely be relatively low volume, just to appease the tough folk of the internet. Folk, who for the most part, will never buy the new car anyways.

This part is so true. If car manufacturers were to listen to what people on the internet want, they'd be bankrupt in no time when the realise these whiners would never buy a new car in the first place.

 

[mustafur]

The new Z4 coupe is looking pretty good. What I wanna see them put in is the engine from the M4.

I doubt BMW would allow it, unlike Audi and Mercedes who will give out their top shelf engines to customers BMW don't have a history of doing it, and given it's packaged on a BMW platform Toyota will have next to no ability to put a better engine in(but that shouldn't stop tuners from doing it).

As it stands the Z4 will likely always have an engine advanatage throughout the life of the car.

 

[kikie]

 

[05XR8]

Awesome looking car. Can't wait to see it on the track.

 

[andrea]

I'd drive it, off a cliff lol

 

[MatskiMonk]

I doubt BMW would allow it, unlike Audi and Mercedes who will give out their top shelf engines to customers BMW don't have a history of doing it, and given it's packaged on a BMW platform Toyota will have next to no ability to put a better engine in(but that shouldn't stop tuners from doing it).

I agree the S55 is unlikely to go into the Supra whilst the M2C is on the scene, but BMW M-Power I6's, V8's and V10's have been used by other low volume manufacturers, and their non M engines have been used plenty of times, so there is precedent.

edit: Alpina take the non-M I6 to over 400hp, that's a mash-up I'd like to see... even if it'll never happen.

 

[mustafur]

I agree the S55 is unlikely to go into the Supra whilst the M2C is on the scene, but BMW M-Power I6's, V8's and V10's have been used by other low volume manufacturers, and their non M engines have been used plenty of times, so there is precedent.

What cars are those, are any of those cars even current M engines?

I can name cars Audi and Mercedes have supplied RS and AMG sourced current(at the time)engines(think Spyker with the 4.2L out of the RS4 and the current Aston Martin Vantage).

 

[LongbowX]

I feel like there was the two choices for this car. What we got: a small 2-seater heavily BMW-based I6 Supra that weighs ~3300lbs at $50,000, or a 2+2 Lexus RC or LC based Supra that looks closer to the FT-1 concept in proportions, has the Lexus 5.0L V8, and weighs 3800lbs+ with an increase in price to around $70-80,000. Does anyone wish they picked the latter? All the other possibilities would be too expensive to produce.