Toyota to recall 3.8M vehicles over floor mats

[Northstar]

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised people are trying to take advantage of this.

This case has been getting a good amount of attention lately.The driver of the Camry is using the recall to try and overturn the verdict on top of this lawsuit from the family of the other car.


Ohh, and the Camry in question is a 1996.

 

[eSZee]

Because they made/make some sporty-ish cars?

where?

Well you apparently can't heel-toe in a G37 either. Car and Driver had an article testing out the stopping power of several cars under full throttle and the G37 cuts throttle the moment there's braking.

Can't heel toe a 2010 WRX either as they put in some kind of a bump on the side of the center console, by the pedals that kind of gets in the way.

 

[Philly]

They did say that the number of 'unintended acceleration' cases went way up as soon as the recall became popular. Methinks people are just using it as a justification of their bad driving. Since the average Camry driver is already probably pretty removed from their driving, the number of "What happened?"..."I donno. Must have been unintended acceleration" is surely going up.

 

[Adamgp]

Toyota got some more splainin' to do:

http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=242736&wnnvz=1750,01300010990

Putting profits ahead of customer safety.

 

[Joey D]

Every automotive company, actually just about any company for that matter, will put profits ahead of just about anything.

 

[Adamgp]

I wouldn't say every auto company.

Sure the goal of every company is to make a profit, but if you kill/hurt customers with your product, they ain't coming back to buy another and bye bye profits.


Toyota has been subpeoenad from a U.S. federal grand jury.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100222/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall_subpoena

Also, while at the Chicago Auto Show I noticed Toyota yanked the floormats out of all their cars.

 

[Joey D]

Show me what company doesn't put profit ahead of anything else. If they are located in a capitalist or semi-capitalist society they are out to make money. Companies can go on and on about soul, passion, the art of design but really in the end it's about making money and pretty much every company will cut corners somewhere to increase that profit. The big three American automarkers are the biggest shinning examples of cutting corners in the name of profit...now their vehicles suck. Toyota fell into the same thing.

 

[YSSMAN]

Toyota fell into the same thing.

Remember when I said this would happen years ago? "Oh no," people said, "Toyota is a different company. They know what they're doing. They actually build good, quality cars."

Toyota, he a pretty cool company. It lives in dream world doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Adamgp]

Show me what company doesn't put profit ahead of anything else. If they are located in a capitalist or semi-capitalist society they are out to make money. Companies can go on and on about soul, passion, the art of design but really in the end it's about making money and pretty much every company will cut corners somewhere to increase that profit. The big three American automarkers are the biggest shinning examples of cutting corners in the name of profit...now their vehicles suck. Toyota fell into the same thing.

The Detroit 3 have done their share of cost cutting. The difference is cheap, plasticky interiors never killed anyone. All 3 have improved drastically while Toyota is getting worse.

 

[Joey D]

The Detroit 3 have done their share of cost cutting. The difference is cheap, plasticky interiors never killed anyone. All 3 have improved drastically while Toyota is getting worse.

The only company to improve is Ford, the rest have slide even further down the hill. Toyota just decided that they wanted to join them and they probably should have a long time ago.

The cost cutting of the American Big Three have killed people needlessly. Look at the whole Ford/Firestone fiasco, both companies were at fault there. It doesn't even need to have a recall. Cutting costs mean cutting technologies out of cars, just because they can pass a crash test doesn't mean you'll walk away from an accident. Tis why the Chevy Blazer was (and might still be) the deadliest vehicle on the road.

And I'm still wondering how many of these deaths are related to Toyota's acceleration issues or if they are just people wanting to get their hands on some of Toyota's money. I have no question that they are guilty of building a shoddy product, but I think a lot of people are just trying to cash in.

 

[a6m5]

Toyota got some more splainin' to do:

http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=242736&wnnvz=1750,01300010990

Putting profits ahead of customer safety.

I don't know if you realize this or not, but the article is stating the obvious. Manufacturers ALWAYS consider profits before issuing a recall. It is normal for them to not to issue one, if they can get away with it.

I'm familiar with recalls by one of the Detroit Big 3 you mentioned in the other post. One's that's been getting their act together, according to you. By the way, did you know that two of them would not have survived without the Government bailing them out? And like Joey mentioned, with a exception of Ford, it's generally accepted that line up's stayed same or gotten worse.

Anyway, back to recalls. This company had been producing this line of vehicles that had this one part that was critical to vehicle running, and it was defective by design. Owners had to replace this part over & over, and while there was no professional installation needed, the part cost roughly $200. I've known many customers who kept a spare(a $200 spare) in their vehicle. After many years, finally a recall was issued. The part in question, now it is roughly $20. From $200 to $20. How did they do it? Simple, the true cost of the part never justified the $200 price. I'm sorry I can't tell you which manufacturer, model, or the part this was about. I just wanted to share this most recent one with you, because you seem to be eating up what that article was feeding you. I suggest reading up some past recalls by the domestic auto manufacturers as well. There are plenty of recalls that were issued only after some fatalities.

 

[YSSMAN]

The only company to improve is Ford, the rest have slide even further down the hill. Toyota just decided that they wanted to join them and they probably should have a long time ago.

The General went further down a hill? Where is this hill? I have not seen said hill. Sure, GM hasn't improved nearly as much as Ford has, but I would never stick it in with the same league as Chrysler. Ever. I mean, I've been a part of a fair number of GM recalls, and been at the sharp end of some of their quality problems, but nothing compares to what's going on at Toyota. The only thing that comes close, maybe, was the engine fire recall (plug wires) on our Grand Prix. But even then...


Ho-Ly Balls, Toyota - ABC News Re-Creates Unintended Acceleration, Toyota Lying Through Their Teeth?


* watches video *
Brad: This is relevant to my interests
[...Toyota may be subject to criminal charges]
Brad: *spit take* WHHHAAT?
[...We managed to re-create the unintended acceleration through a software issue, something that Toyota has repeatedly denied]
Brad: Didn't Woz talk about this earlier? On his Prius? Wait, they're using an Avalon? This should be relevant to Old People's interests...
[...Sure enough, when the short was activated, the car raced forward. Overwhelming the brakes, only stopping when I put the car in neutral. Worse yet, no warnings on the dashboard, and no error codes displayed]
Brad: Ho-ly balls, Batman. Lets watch Toyota squirm in their hearings tomorrow!

 

[a6m5]

Again, "lying"? Which auto manufacturer hasn't lied about recalls?

I'm not going to say if Toyota is right about the sticky pedals, or if Professor Gilbert's claim is the truth. We simply don't know. If you work with new cars, you know the type of crazy, unexpected problems you can encounter. Having said that, I never bought the sticky pedal recall, so this electronic error makes much more sense to me.

Am I alone in thinking that Toyota would actually be relieved to find the true cause of this problem? If I was Toyota, I would be. I don't think any executives at Toyota believes that this will go away by some kind of denial.

 

[niky]

The General went further down a hill? Where is this hill? I have not seen said hill. Sure, GM hasn't improved nearly as much as Ford has, but I would never stick it in with the same league as Chrysler. Ever. I mean, I've been a part of a fair number of GM recalls, and been at the sharp end of some of their quality problems, but nothing compares to what's going on at Toyota. The only thing that comes close, maybe, was the engine fire recall (plug wires) on our Grand Prix. But even then...


Ho-Ly Balls, Toyota - ABC News Re-Creates Unintended Acceleration, Toyota Lying Through Their Teeth?


* watches video *
Brad: This is relevant to my interests
[...Toyota may be subject to criminal charges]
Brad: *spit take* WHHHAAT?
[...We managed to re-create the unintended acceleration through a software issue, something that Toyota has repeatedly denied]
Brad: Didn't Woz talk about this earlier? On his Prius? Wait, they're using an Avalon? This should be relevant to Old People's interests...
[...Sure enough, when the short was activated, the car raced forward. Overwhelming the brakes, only stopping when I put the car in neutral. Worse yet, no warnings on the dashboard, and no error codes displayed]
Brad: Ho-ly balls, Batman. Lets watch Toyota squirm in their hearings tomorrow!

Read the Toyota response... the problem is, he introduced an intentional short into the system... with a resistor. (An item we use in car modification specifically to fool sensors!)

This clearly doesn't replicate a real-life failure mode. If there was a short between the wires, in real life, it'd either get an intermittent signal or a steady high-voltage signal... not a steady low-voltage one at a very specific voltage.

The resistor assures that the voltages don't fall outside the expected range or become erratic and intermittent... as they would in a real short-circuit... and the computer throws no error codes.

No smoking gun. Just plain media B.S.. You'd have to show where the wires come together in such close proximity and how they could wear down in such a way as to cause a short that keeps signals at that exact voltage used to create the unintended acceleration.

 

[YSSMAN]

Read the Toyota response... the problem is, he introduced an intentional short into the system... with a resistor. (An item we use in car modification specifically to fool sensors!)

Aaaah, I didn't see the updated Toyota response since earlier this evening. There may very well be something to what the Professor is going on about, but its hard to know if Toyota is trying to spin things as well.

 

[ANFD]

Show me what company doesn't put profit ahead of anything else. If they are located in a capitalist or semi-capitalist society they are out to make money. Companies can go on and on about soul, passion, the art of design but really in the end it's about making money and pretty much every company will cut corners somewhere to increase that profit. The big three American automarkers are the biggest shinning examples of cutting corners in the name of profit...now their vehicles suck. Toyota fell into the same thing.

Spoken like a young person who has no real world experience, but simply the idealistic perspective to generalize a common cliche. Having spent 25 years with a leading automotive company whose reputation has been built by consumer confidence, I can emphatically state that customer loyalty, satisfaction and safety are the dominant driving forces within the corporate philosophy ... not profit. Simply put, if you take care of the customer up front, the profits will come naturally.

Toyota, being one of the wealthiest (liquid assets) companies in Japan just got into the habit of buying their way into racing circles and throwing money around to grow their corporate culture. Like most bullies, they must have thought that they were unapproachable.

Like everything I state here, this is my personal opinion

 

[Eric.]

Uh, how come Car and Driver's V6 Camry, when mashing the brake and keeping full throttle at 70mph, still came to a stop 10ft shorter than a Taurus would under normal conditions, yet an Avalon can't?

 

[Northstar]

Spoken like a young person who has no real world experience, but simply the idealistic perspective to generalize a common cliche. Having spent 25 years with a leading automotive company whose reputation has been built by consumer confidence, I can emphatically state that customer loyalty, satisfaction and safety are the dominant driving forces within the corporate philosophy ... not profit. Simply put, if you take care of the customer up front, the profits will come naturally.

Every company does that whole "customer first" thing. It's not true, not sure exactly what position you've held for 25 years but chances are it's not on the board of directors where most major decisions happen. Frankly the only reasons companies actually care about customers is because if they mess up it will cost them big time(in lawsuits or decreased revenue because of bad pr which Toyota is of course dealing with both currently).

I also have to question what automaker you work for since I can't think of one that has customer confidence.

 

[ANFD]

You are right, I was not on the board of directors and of course, profits are necessary to grow your business. I was however a design engineer at Honda and I couldn't count the number of times I had to demonstate and qualify the integrity and quality of a part or component before it went into production. Nothing went out the door that wasn't tested and retested and retested and re-evaluated. If the slightest question of customer safety was mentioned, everything had to be re-designed. It drove me crazy but also instilled in me a pride that I carry with me in retirement today (as you can tell)

First and foremost, I can say that Honda is at it's core, a most honorable company. You will never see them mention their competitors (in any product segment) in their advertising. They have never sighted any of their competitors short-comings or taken cheap shots like everyone else in the industry does. They have always let their products simply speak for themselves ..... in most cases (JD Powers etc) they have the best customer loyalty, the lowest defect ratio and best resale value. Obviously, some products are better received than others, but I also promise you that something like this would NEVER happen with Honda.

 

[Joey D]

Spoken like a young person who has no real world experience, but simply the idealistic perspective to generalize a common cliche. Having spent 25 years with a leading automotive company whose reputation has been built by consumer confidence, I can emphatically state that customer loyalty, satisfaction and safety are the dominant driving forces within the corporate philosophy ... not profit. Simply put, if you take care of the customer up front, the profits will come naturally.

Toyota, being one of the wealthiest (liquid assets) companies in Japan just got into the habit of buying their way into racing circles and throwing money around to grow their corporate culture. Like most bullies, they must have thought that they were unapproachable.

Like everything I state here, this is my personal opinion

You are clearly living and working on fantasy island. I may be young but it doesn't mean I'm blind to the world, thanks for the assumption though 👍!

And you work for Honda eh? So their Fit's that are catching on fire and their airbags that have killed at least one person mean nothing?

 

[niky]

I was actually about to cite the Honda incidents, but in each case, Honda did take action quite quickly compared to Toyota's botching of the current UA debacle.

Of course... Honda's had quite a few more quality issues over the past decade than those two... but that's true of almost any current manufacturer.

 

[Joey D]

I was just pointing out that Honda has had incidents like this and they were more then likely due to cost cutting . But you are right, no manufacture is exempt from the plague of a botched product line.

 

[ANFD]

I was actually about to cite the Honda incidents, but in each case, Honda did take action quite quickly compared to Toyota's botching of the current UA debacle.

Of course... Honda's had quite a few more quality issues over the past decade than those two... but that's true of almost any current manufacturer.

This is the relevent part and the most important part. Nothing made by man is infallible and I never meant to imply such. I have had Honda cars since 1981and in that time, I have received 1 safety recall notice. I had 9 of them for the new Dodge Ram truck I bought in 95 in the first year !

I knew some would be quick to jump on the recent Fit switch issue, but I still stand on my statement. It was a very low number of incidents and Honda was very quick to respond as they always do. That was the point of my comments.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "Honda's had quite a few more quality issues over the past decade than those two" .... which two are you talking about and I doubt you have your facts straight. The only major recall Honda has had in the last decade involved the Odyssey transmissions.

And to Joey D ....If you personally don't like Hondas, that's your choice, but you don't have to bash the brand just because you feel I insulted you And on that note, please accept my apologies for my somewhat uncalled for comment .... I just don't believe in generalities and "blanket statements" from a philosophical standpoint.

 

[Joey D]

And to Joey D ....If you personally don't like Hondas, that's your choice, but you don't have to bash the brand just because you feel I insulted you

Uh I don't hate Honda's, I actually like them quite a bit and strongly considered a Fit when I was looking at purchasing a new car. I'm also a huge fan of the Civic Si, the S2000 and I think the Accord coupé is awesome in terms of design.

I was merely pointing out Honda isn't as perfect as you seem to think. Their airbag recall did result in one fatality and 12 incidents. Recalling 900,000 vehicles is no small thing.

But what could I possible know, I'm just a young person with no real world experience right?

 

[ANFD]

Uh I don't hate Honda's, I actually like them quite a bit and strongly considered a Fit when I was looking at purchasing a new car. I'm also a huge fan of the Civic Si, the S2000 and I think the Accord coupé is awesome in terms of design.

I was merely pointing out Honda isn't as perfect as you seem to think. Their airbag recall did result in one fatality and 12 incidents. Recalling 900,000 vehicles is no small thing.

But what could I possible know, I'm just a young person with no real world experience right?

I never said that Honda was "perfect" I also remember what is was like to be in my 20's and now more than 40 years later, I can accept the fact that I actually learned a few things along the way Spending those 25 years in a company really gives you a perspective and appreciation for the culture of the company and what it stands for. Having had that personal experience is what prompted me to reply.

 

[Joey D]

Having 25 years at a company also makes one biased. I just look at my entire family who's worked at GM and they somehow think that GM produces cars that are God's gift to the automotive world.

 

[ANFD]

Ok, I'm biased ..... and you're right about all companies ignoring the safety of their customers for the sake of profits. There must not be any large companies with integrity and moral fortitude .... we are all doomed to die at the hands of the greed mongers

 

[Joey D]

Ok, I'm biased ..... and you're right about all companies ignoring the safety of their customers for the sake of profits. There must not be any large companies with integrity and moral fortitude .... we are all doomed to die at the hands of the greed mongers

Show me a large company that isn't out to make a profit and is out to solely cater to their customers. It's clearly not Honda as I've already cited examples of how their cost cutting lead to a massive recall, 12 incidents, and one fatality. Cutting costs does not mean customers are going to die, it means they are going to be given a shoddy product that won't work as well.

All one has to do is look up crash test videos of vehicles and you can see which ones had the corners cut a bit too much. The car is perfectly fine to drive and is able to pass the minimum for crash testing, but it doesn't mean it's safe.

 

[ANFD]

What proof do you have that it was 'cost cutting" that caused the switches to fail when subjected to what was reported as an "inordinate amount of water being introduced to the switch" ? Isn't all this just conjecture on your part ?

And the issue is not whether Hondas can or cannot have defects but rather their commitment to rapidly address and fix the problem. I have formed my opinion based on real life experiences and not something I just pulled out of thin air and imagined to be.

Again you keep harkening to the fact that companies are profit driven .... well duh ! That does not automatically mean that they do not place the well being of their customers first. The only reason I keep responding to your repetitive generality and assumption is that I can't accept the sweeping nature of your premise.

This discussion seems to be going nowhere so I'll be signing off now

 

[Joey D]

What proof do you have that it was 'cost cutting" that caused the switches to fail when subjected to what was reported as an "inordinate amount of water being introduced to the switch" ? Isn't all this just conjecture on your part ?

The could have made that area of the car waterproof because lets face it cars sit out in the weather, from the hottest heat of Death Valley to the tropical forces of the hurricanes in the Gulf Coast. It's cheaper not to spend $X more per car to waterproof something, hence cost cutting measures. I'm not saying Honda is the only company, I'm saying every company does this. Some issues that arise from this are worse then others.

And the issue is not whether Hondas can or cannot have defects but rather their commitment to rapidly address and fix the problem. I have formed my opinion based on real life experiences and not something I just pulled out of thin air and imagined to be.

Rapidly? The cars with faulty airbags go back to the 2001MY, it's 2010, that's 9 years. Not what I would call a rapid response. The initial recall was started in 2008 too and here it is Feb of 2010 and they are still finding airbag faults.

Again you keep harkening to the fact that companies are profit driven .... well duh ! That does not automatically mean that they do not place the well being of their customers first. The only reason I keep responding to your repetitive generality and assumption is that I can't accept the sweeping nature of your premise.

You are basing your argument off of biased personal opinion, I'm looking at the facts and what happened with Honda's. I can switch car makers if you'd like, I'm sure I can find similar things for any automaker out there. Companies are out to make money, if they can cost cut and get away with it, they more than likely will, sometimes they get burned like Toyota did.