Track Limit Abuse by most Top 10 Drivers

[Tou2istTrophy]

There's nothing to get.
He's aware of an exploitation and taking advantage of it. There's nothing wrong with it (technically), it's just not respected.
May as well exploit the pit bug while you're at it.

Big difference. Sorry that you cannot see it.

 

[dylan86_exe]

Big difference. Sorry that you cannot see it.

No. There isn't.

 

[shaunus]

There's nothing to get.
He's aware of an exploitation and taking advantage of it. There's nothing wrong with it (technically), it's just not respected.
May as well exploit the pit bug while you're at it. It's PDs fault after all..

A lot of people do NOT consider this to be an exploit. In my opinion the set track limits ARE the best guide we have to the intended track limits, not your own idea of what is 'fair'. You do not speak for everyone about what is respected at all.

And no there is not a super simple everyone understands it rule that can be applied. If there was track limits would not be a constant subject of argument in real racing.

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

No. There isn't.

By that logic you should also discredit every other top driver in this game. There's a massive difference between exploiting something that the game intended and something that it did not to get an advantage.

 

[zzz_pt]

There's nothing to get.
He's aware of an exploitation and taking advantage of it. There's nothing wrong with it (technically), it's just not respected.
May as well exploit the pit bug while you're at it. It's PDs fault after all..

I don't race at Tokyo in Sport Mode because of wall riders. I don't blame them, I blame PD. I just don't go there.
I also don't "do" the pit glitch. As I don't use rubber banding on my DS4 to grind credits and mileage points. Nor to I push people off track btw.

Several people have explained the difference between those and racing to the limits of the track. But judging by your simple first post in this thread, I'm sure you didn't read any of it. Jumping to accusations is always easier. Good for you.

 

[dylan86_exe]

Except this sort of disregard for taking a corner would incur a drive through in the real world...

And yes, I do disregard every other "top driver" in the game if they do this. I don't personally cross-check every lap replay of them. I've only seen this guy's lap because somebody felt strongly that it's 🤬...
So now every time I see his name at the top of the list, I know he's a fake that is purely chasing a lap time based on exploitation and quickly disregard him as a respected driver that knows how to steer a car..

Let it be clear, this entire discussion is completely subjective. Some people will agree, some won't. The only bounds are the ones PD set as already mentioned!
As I said earlier - this type of behaviour is technically allowed. Just as the pit bug is technically allowed... You see the point?! You can't have one and not the other. It's encourages cheating in every regard.
I don't endorse either. But if you're saying one is ok, and the other isn't - well then you're just a hypocrite.

I don't race at Tokyo in Sport Mode because of wall riders. I don't blame them, I blame PD. I just don't go there.
I also don't "do" the pit glitch. As I don't use rubber banding on my DS4 to grind credits and mileage points. Nor to I push people off track btw.

Several people have explained the difference between those and racing to the limits of the track. But judging by your simple first post in this thread, I'm sure you didn't read any of it. Jumping to accusations is always easier. Good for you.

I read every one of your comments. I just think it's funny you're cherry picking exploits on what you find is acceptable and what isn't.

 

[zzz_pt]

I read every one of your comments. I just think it's funny you're cherry picking exploits on what you find is acceptable and what isn't.

Doubt it. Because several people have explained the difference, me included. You can disagree, be my guest.

I find it funny that you come here, and on your first post, in a single line, say you won't respect me and I'm an exploiter. That's what's funny.

 

[dylan86_exe]

Doubt it. Because several people have explained the difference, me included. You can disagree, be my guest.

I find it funny that you come here, and on your first post, in a single line, say you won't respect me and I'm an exploiter. That's what's funny.

And they're all subjective opinions.

So I need 5000+ posts to have an opinion? Is that what you're saying?... Sorry I thought this was a public forum. Open to discussion.
Just how arrogant are you?!

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

@zzz_pt What do you think of exploiting penalties? (In my post above in the previous page)

Should it invalidate the lap? Since it does not, is it okay to do it in the top FIA races?

 

[Outspacer]

We can only guess what PD's rules are. Some people will break them even if they are punished for it. Without penalties a lot of people will push the boundaries as far as they can because they know that their idea of track limits is not the same as the next person. Quite a few people disagreeing with you have said they'd be happy to see stricter rules regarding track limits (I agree with them, and you, on this). That might never happen though. It's unrealistic to expect people to stick to their idea of track limits when they're in a race with 20 strangers who may, or may not, have different opinions on the matter. It's this confusion that makes people push till they're punished.

I dunno, PD's rules seem fairly consistent, at least as far as corner cutting goes - two wheels have to stay on the tarmac or kerb or 'extra area' inside a kerb. We don't need to guess because any extra area is visually identifiable as such.

Now why they allowed that extra area, I don't know, but I'm sure they did mean to allow it. Personally, I'd rather they didn't... and/or made the physics so there was some downside to riding over speed bumps and sausages that penetrate the car's body!

As I said earlier - this type of behaviour is technically allowed. Just as the pit bug is technically allowed... You see the point?! You can't have one and not the other. It's encourages cheating in every regard.

Invalid point. As you say, the pit bug is a BUG. Bugs can be exploited. Track limits are as intended, so can't be 'exploited'. It's a very simple difference which totally undermines your whole argument.

 

[dylan86_exe]

I dunno, PD's rules seem fairly consistent, at least as far as corner cutting goes - two wheels have to stay on the tarmac or kerb or 'extra area' inside a kerb. We don't need to guess because any extra area is visually identifiable as such.

Now why they allowed that extra area, I don't know, but I'm sure they did mean to allow it. Personally, I'd rather they didn't... and/or made the physics so there was some downside to riding over speed bumps and sausages that penetrate the car's body!




Invalid point. As you say, the pit bug is a BUG. Bugs can be exploited. Track limits are as intended, so can't be 'exploited'. It's a very simple difference which totally undermines your whole argument.

Moot point considering the current state of the penalty system. You have no idea whether these "track limits" aren't bugs that will be fixed in a future patch. You're speculating.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Let it be clear, this entire discussion is completely subjective. Some people will agree, some won't. The only bounds are the ones PD set as already mentioned!

I have been lets say in multiple discussions in this thread on many aspects concerning this issue with some being pretty "intense".

Myself and zzz_pt have gone back and forth quite a bit on this issue but the one thing I think that has been a standard is the controversy is a product of the variance the game allows.

I am not going over everything that has been previously discussed as that can be read within the thread if someone so desires but at no time have I ever felt that a persons talents were reduced as regardless of the set limits allowed the fast guys will still be the fast guys regardless of where the game places the limits.

And again never have I called a person that is doing what the game does currently allows an exploiter or a cheater because the game allows such and although I do not like or approve of the current limits they are what they are, they are legal and a person that stays within the rules as enforced is doing nothing wrong that makes his character or morals something to be questioned.

This goes not only for this but the wall riding as well, both are legal currently within the game. Again I have caught much flak for maintaining that opinion.

The laps I watched zzz has excellent driver skills and recognition for those skills should not be considered inferior because he plays the game as to the limits the game allows whether you agree or disagree where the current limits are placed.

And no there is not a super simple everyone understands it rule that can be applied. If there was track limits would not be a constant subject of argument in real racing

In the game it could be a very simple everyone understands rule if anytime that two tires were not in contact with the tarmac within the white lines of the designated racing circuit it would draw an out of bounds penalty. So it could be easily be a cut and dried issue and for the majority the fast guys will still be the fast guys even with restricted boundaries.

But do not hold your breath for something that would be uniform and work well to be added into the game.

 

[zzz_pt]

And they're all subjective opinions.

So I need 5000+ posts to have an opinion? Is that what you're saying?... Sorry I thought this was a public forum. Open to discussion.
Just how arrogant are you?!

An opinion, sure. Making cheap accusations and taking this to a personal level, it's different. And then you accuse me of being arrogant. You're the one who came in riding your moral high horse and saying you don't respect me. You could've said that the lap in the OP is a bad lap and that you wouldn't do it. But I guess you didn't read the OP even, since he says the discussion was not about me but about the track limits. You probably missed it. And I'm the arrogant.

@zzz_pt What do you think of exploiting penalties? (In my post above in the previous page)

Should it invalidate the lap? Since it does not, is it okay to do it in the top FIA races?

Yes, I agree.

The laps I watched zzz has excellent driver skills and recognition for those skills should not be considered inferior because he plays the game as to the limits the game allows whether you agree or disagree where the current limits are placed.

Just to clarify, I don't do everything the game allows. I race to the track limits. Wall riding is not that. I also don't go 20m off at T2 or 10m at T4 at Nurb GP.

 

[Outspacer]

Moot point considering the current state of the penalty system. You have no idea whether these "track limits" aren't bugs that will be fixed in a future patch. You're speculating.

If I am, then so are you... and on that basis you charge in calling people cheaters? Charming.

 

[Woodybobs]

@Famine Previous to GTS I've only owned GT1, so I haven't been privy to the evidence. I don't doubt it to exist though. Others, and now you, who have vastly more experience with the series than me, have vouched for it, while nobody has argued to the contrary. I'm not challenging it. I chose the word guess to negate the 'show me proof' argument and so the main points of the post wouldn't be buried. Upon rereading I should have chosen a more suitable word.

Edit @Outspacer also

 

[dylan86_exe]

If I am, then so are you... and on that basis you charge in calling people cheaters? Charming.

Didn't once call him a cheater. In fact I said multiple times that its technically allowed. What I said was that it wasn't respectable and I don't consider him a good driver considering what he's doing.

That's the way I see it. If it wasn't a controversial topic, there wouldn't be a thread about it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I would like to know if people agree or disagree that getting a penalty should lead to an invalid lap.

Although in most instances, you can't get a penalty and still get the fastest lap possible. In some cars and tracks, you can get a penalty (gaining a big advantage on the time you cut), and it will come off by the nature of the following corners (even pushing at 10/10).

In my opinion, it should invalidate the lap.

If you don't scrub the penalty the lap is invalidated as well as the next. I guess PD thinks losing the penalty during the rest of the lap is good enough, yet as they can't even place proper track limits I wouldn't be surprised you could gain an advantage that way as well.

Imo, the lap should be invalidated and the track limits need to be tightened up for qualifying. I can understand why they are not as strict during the race since avoiding people or getting bumped would lead to a lot more penalties. Yet while hot lapping there is no reason not to adhere to at least 2 wheels within the white line.

Btw you can also get away with wall riding in the license tests, so I guess wall riding is intended after all! Taking the fact that the game doesn't give a penalty as proof going off track is as intended doesn't make sense to me. I guess the last chicane in Sarthe was only meant as a speed bump and not for actually going through.

 

[dylan86_exe]

An opinion, sure. Making cheap accusations and taking this to a personal level, it's different. And then you accuse me of being arrogant. You're the one who came in riding your moral high horse and saying you don't respect me. You could've said that the lap in the OP is a bad lap and that you wouldn't do it. But I guess you didn't read the OP even, since he says the discussion was not about me but about the track limits. You probably missed it. And I'm the arrogant.



Yes, I agree.



Just to clarify, I don't do everything the game allows. I race to the track limits. Wall riding is not that. I also don't go 20m off at T2 or 10m at T4 at Nurb GP.

In other words, your feelings are hurt. It's almost as if you're surprised to get a bit of backlash..

 

[shaunus]

COmparing the pit bug..

@zzz_pt What do you think of exploiting penalties? (In my post above in the previous page)

Should it invalidate the lap? Since it does not, is it okay to do it in the top FIA races?

If the lap is going to be invalidated, why have time penalties at all? Seems you are looking for the time penalty system to be replaced with a lap cancellation system? If so it isn't really on topic in this conversation.

 

[zzz_pt]

In other words, your feelings are hurt. It's almost as if you're surprised to get a bit of backlash..

Not really. I'm not surprised at anything on the internet. I just called you out on your ridiculous "opinion". You're free to come in and say I'm a bad driver and you don't respect me (even thoug you don't know me and never raced against me) instead of staying on topic and discussing the track limits and how they're implemented. Just don't expect not be called out on it.

 

[dylan86_exe]

Not really. I'm not surprised at anything on the internet. I just called you out on your ridiculous "opinion". You're free to come in and say I'm a bad driver and you don't respect me (even thoug you don't know me and never raced against me) instead of staying on topic and discussing the track limits and how they're implemented. Just don't expect not be called out on it.

Well you were used as an example of a broken system. So it is on topic. You just don't like it because you've been called out on it.

Anyway, This is stupid.
Everyone else is wrong, you're right. Got it.

 

[zzz_pt]

Well you were used as an example of a broken system. So it is on topic. You just don't like it because you've been called out on it.

Anyway, This is stupid.
Everyone else is wrong, you're right. Got it.

It's not about me or anyone else.

The game says I'm right.

 

[Outspacer]

Didn't once call him a cheater. In fact I said multiple times that its technically allowed. What I said was that it wasn't respectable and I don't consider him a good driver considering what he's doing.

That's the way I see it. If it wasn't a controversial topic, there wouldn't be a thread about it.

OK, these are some of the expressions you've used, all are considerably stronger than "don't consider him a good driver":

... he's a fake ...

... disregard him as a respected driver ...

... encourages cheating in every regard.

... cherry picking exploits ...

Taken together, essentially make it plain that you label him a cheater / an exploiter.

And you do that based on your own assumption that the track limits are bugged, while all evidence available points to the contrary - they are as intended.

 

[Rinsky]

As I said earlier - this type of behaviour is technically allowed. Just as the pit bug is technically allowed... You see the point?! You can't have one and not the other. It's encourages cheating in every regard.
I don't endorse either. But if you're saying one is ok, and the other isn't - well then you're just a hypocrite.

The pit glitch is exactly that a glitch. It was never intended to be in the game.
Anyone caught doing the pit glitch is subject to losing all their progression along with having their GTS account suspended. It is not allowed.

Anyone caught pushing the track boundaries to the absolute maximum is subject to.. Nothing.
Because It's not a glitch and it was setup this way by PD. Like previously stated in others post within this thread that this is nothing new within the GT series including being used in GT Academy. This is allowed.

If you're someone who agrees with the track boundaries or not it still doesn't make these two the same thing.

 

[dylan86_exe]

OK, these are some of the expressions you've used, all are considerably stronger than "don't consider him a good driver":









Taken together, essentially make it plain that you label him a cheater / an exploiter.

And you do that based on your own assumption that the track limits are bugged, while all evidence available points to the contrary - they are as intended.

Without going back through pages of comments, you're taking things out of context. And I'm getting tired of having to correct you.
So I'll repeat what I said before. You CAN NOT exploit the implemented penalty system and tell me (or the community for that matter) that one offence is ok and then disregard another, regardless of what they're exploiting. Exploiting is exploiting. And there's no question about it that this would be an offence in any real world scenario.

 

[dylan86_exe]

The pit glitch is exactly that a glitch. It was never intended to be in the game.
Anyone caught doing the pit glitch is subject to losing all their progression along with having their GTS account suspended. It is not allowed.

Anyone caught pushing the track boundaries to the absolute maximum is subject to.. Nothing.
Because It's not a glitch and it was setup this way by PD. Like previously stated in others post within this thread that this is nothing new within the GT series including being used in GT Academy. This is allowed.

If you're someone who agrees with the track boundaries or not it still doesn't make these two the same thing.

The original point I was trying to get across was that the penalty system is nothing short of terrible. There's no evidence to suggest that cutting corners to this extreme was never intended if we base how bad it is in it's current state. It purely speculating. My example was just more obvious than the one we're discussing.

 

[shaunus]

Without going back through pages of comments, you're taking things out of context. And I'm getting tired of having to correct you.
So I'll repeat what I said before. You CAN NOT exploit the implemented penalty system and tell me (or the community for that matter) that one offence is ok and then disregard another, regardless of what they're exploiting. Exploiting is exploiting. And there's no question about it that this would be an offence in any real world scenario.

You go do the pit glitch. Get caught. Lose your account for a while and all progress. Because you cheated.

You go use the allocated track limits. Get 'caught'. Nothing happens. Because you didnt do anything wrong.

 

[Outspacer]

Without going back through pages of comments, you're taking things out of context. And I'm getting tired of having to correct you.
So I'll repeat what I said before. You CAN NOT exploit the implemented penalty system and tell me (or the community for that matter) that one offence is ok and then disregard another, regardless of what they're exploiting. Exploiting is exploiting. And there's no question about it that this would be an offence in any real world scenario.

For the last time, track limits are as intended. So it's not an offence. So it's not an exploit.

Any other 'reality' is only in your head.

Goodnight.

 

[dylan86_exe]

For the last time, track limits are as intended. So it's not an offence. So it's not an exploit.

Any other 'reality' is only in your head.

Goodnight.

It's not a track limit if you're not even on the track LOL

TIL thanks for the insight.

 

[Obelisk]

Morals vs game rules. Ugh, I love (sarcasm) when these come up.

It's just a game, god. What the game defines as legal is legal. It can be duplicated by anyone who has taken the time to study other drivers and their laps.

I do agree that they should be tightened up in some places (Dragon Trail's back chicane irks me a bit, as well as Nurb GP's turn 2), but they are as PD intended.

I'm not taking any sides in this debate - @zzz_pt earned his spot on the leaderboards with excellent pace along with pushing the very limits of what the game defines legal...That's kind of the point of a skill-based system, isn't it? You use all available resources to push yourself as hard as you can. And if you don't use them, you're kind of a scrub.

I know because I still have a habit of getting really uncomfortable with pushing past the curbs on some corners (Maggiore's limits are intimidating and I don't have the pace or car mastery to even try in the first place), but this is because I used to be really stubborn about staying in the lines.

Also @dylan86_exe you should be ashamed of yourself for coming into this thread and using your first post in-thread to abuse another member. PT has the pace to run circles around anyone else and has the know-how to take full advantage of the (generous) limits on the tracks in GTS.

And if I may be honest, pushing the limit of the rules for advantages was something my team did during Harsk100's first two seasons of GRC on GT6. We discovered that certain little tricks - lowering tire grades, certain ride height weirdness and the like - helped us push our cars further and harder. Ultimately, all of these are just tools for the driver.

A bit disjointed and ranty, but I hope this offers some insight from a slower driver trying their best.