Transgender Thread.

  • Thread starter Com Fox
  • 2,194 comments
  • 129,625 views

Transgender is...?

  • Ok for anyone

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • Ok as long as it's binary (Male to Female or vice versa)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wrong

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No one's business except the person involved

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
Supreme Court appointement. Illegal border crossings down more than 50%. Keystone and Dakota Access pipelines given the green light. Drew an actual redline in the sand and bombed Syria after a chemical weapons attack. Dropped a MOAB on ISIS who are all but defeated now. Trade concessions from China in his first meeting with them. Imposed a five year ban on lobbying the gov't by former WH officials and a lifetime ban on lobbying for foreign gov'ts by former WH officials....etc. etc. etc. So yeah, nothing I guess.

I should add, his decision on transgender participation in the military is unnecessary and disappointing. If you meet the physical, mental, educational etc. requirements for service you should be allowed to serve.
 
…..back to this.
Meh. I guess he just hasn't done anything that stood out to me as him actually proving he belongs where he's at. For all we know someone else is making the decisions and he's just pointing at them going "yeah, let's do that". The negatives still far outweighing the positives.
 
That one doesn't count, that is definitely him reversing an Obama decision.
It could be argued that Trump is simply removing the roadblocks Obama put up and moving forward based on the original assessment of the NEB and State Department in 2010 that gave their conditional approval to go ahead with the pipeline. Obama did veto a bill from the Senate in 2015 that approved the pipeline but he'd been playing political football with it for so long he really had no choice but to do so in the interests of political consistency. Any other decision would have been unthinkable with all the obstruction he'd put up over the years. Can't be seen agreeing with the Republicans on anything, especially the dirty, nasty fossil fuel.
 
I can see how the Trans ban came to be but at the same don't agree with it.

I hear arguments for this saying it is just like how Physical and Mental disabilities sometimes makes you ineligible for war. However I don't really agree with that because Gender Dysphoria is about Gender identity which doesn't really enter the battlefield like being colourblind or bad cases of anxiety/PTSD/depression.

If a Trans person in the army was more concerened with their identity than their duty than they aren't fit for it as an individual, simple as that. If a Trans person fits the qualifications, they're fit for it as an individual, simple as that. I really don't get the whole idea of grouping Trans in 1 umbrella, though that's probably just me being a massive indivdualist.
 
And the fact remains that the top estimate for trans costs is $8.4m while current DoD spending on Viagra is $84m.

$8M.... it's not worth even mentioning it to the president at $8M. I know of corporate CEOs that aren't willing to step in and investigate a particular deal if it's less than $100M. POTUS simply cannot spend his time on $8M. Wikipedia indicates a federal budget of $4T for '16. $8M is 0.0002% of the federal budget. If trump were to spend that much time out of the year on it, he should spend 1 minute on it (40 seconds if you account for sleep). The tweet took more than 1 minute, even if he dictated it (which I'm sure he didn't). It takes too long to even introduce yourself to ask a question on this subject for it to be worthwhile.
 
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$8M is 0.0002% of the federal budget. If trump were to spend that much time out of the year on it, he should spend 1 minute on it (40 seconds if you account for sleep).

Well to be fair that's probably how long the supposed consultation with the generals and such was.

"Hey can I talk to you for a second?"

"What do you need Mr. President?"

"I'm banning these Transgender people from the military."

"Sir, that's probably not a wise thing to do."

"I don't care, we're doing it."

"As you wish Mr. President."
 
while current DoD spending on Viagra is $84m.
We need to get him to fix that too, between the 2 that's almost $100 million wasted yearly. They don't need a woody to fight. They should pay for it on their own, just like the trannies.

Edit: Neither is needed for military purposes, they are a waste. And I don't wanna hear about a .0000X% of the budget carp. A waste is a waste.
 
And I don't wanna hear about a .0000X% of the budget carp. A waste is a waste.

Interesting that you think of it as purely wasted given that there is the whole "discrimination" angle to the discussion. My point is actually that this is a greater waste, of the president's time.

If the president could save $100M from the budget (which is still below the value of his time*) by spending a little while on a particular subject, or save $8M on a different subject, it's a waste to spend the time on the $8M subject. It's literally $92M wasted, and no, he's not going to get to everything.

Prioritizing what gets time is part of reducing waste. @TenEightyOne's point with the viagra comment is that it's trivial to find a better use of time.

*many space missions range between $500M and $1B in cost and don't require presidential approval for example
 
We need to get him to fix that too, between the 2 that's almost $100 million wasted yearly. They don't need a woody to fight. They should pay for it on their own, just like the trannies.

I managed to get some firmer information and the facts now stand up a little differently: if you're ex-military you can remain eligible for prescription subsidy from the DoD. That's where the money goes, as the age of vets increases the cost shoots up.
 
Interesting that you think of it as purely wasted given that there is the whole "discrimination" angle to the discussion. My point is actually that this is a greater waste, of the president's time.

If the president could save $100M from the budget (which is still below the value of his time) by spending a little while on a particular subject, or save $8M on a different subject, it's a waste to spend the time on the $8M subject. It's literally $92M wasted, and no, he's not going to get to everything.

Prioritizing what gets time is part of reducing waste. @TenEightyOne's point with the viagra comment is that it's trivial to find a better use of time.
And my point is he could have killed 2 birds with one stone. I'm not getting to the whole "discrimination" thing. I could care less, as far as I'm concerned, they discriminated against me when I tried to enroll in a time of war. No body cares a able bodied citizen who doesn't fit some minority group, was turned down. Screw all of them.

And who are you to say what is important of his time? As you said he only spent 40 seconds thinking about it...(86,360 seconds left in his day minus sleep) The drips in the bucket add up. But you like to ignore that when I try to bring it up. $800k saved over 8 years is almost a billion over his term. Is it still a waste of his time? Let me guess, to you yes, to me, I see $800k less drops in our bucket of debt.

PS: He probably went off info given by the military leaders and said OK. Mad Dogg has the final say on who gets enlisted and y'all also forget they lose a lot of rights we have as citizens when they sign up. There is a reason they keep men and women separate. :)
 
And I don't wanna hear about a .0000X% of the budget carp. A waste is a waste.

I'm gonna double back on this one because I think it deserves another round.

"A waste is a waste" is really simplistic thinking here. Banning certain people from military service can easily harm morale enough to cost more in actual dollars to counterbalance. You know that you're going to pay some recruiting penalty for this move, and that recruiting penalty costs money. The outstanding question (if you forget morality for a moment and just look at dollars), is whether you're going to get an offsetting bump in recruiting or morale that overwhelms the penalty. That might be the case, but it requires analysis. That effect could easily drown whatever signal it is that you're seeing from the $8M. If you don't do the analysis (which costs money) you don't know whether "saving" $8M is actually costing you more, or is actually saving you even more.

Doing that analysis costs money. This is true of the viagra thing too, you can't know for sure whether it's a waste - it's a perq for employees. You can cut it, but will you save money? Or will you end up shelling out even more money to compensate for the lost perq. Analysis is required.

This, again, is why you have to spend your time on big ticket items. It can be clearer going in that you can cut waste, and make the analysis and time spent considering it much more clearly worthwhile.

And who are you to say what is important of his time?

...someone who can do math?

As you said he only spent 40 seconds thinking about it

I didn't say he only spent 40 seconds thinking about it. I said if he spent more than that it was taking up more than its share of his year - and it probably took him over 40 seconds to tweet it (also not a good use of his time).

...(86,360 seconds left in his day minus sleep) The drips in the bucket add up. But you like to ignore that when I try to bring it up. $800k saved over 8 years is almost a billion over his term. Is it still a waste of his time? Let me guess, to you yes, to me, I see $800k less drops in our bucket of debt.

No. Because he could have saved more money by working on something else. You see $800k less drops, I see all of the drops that could have been prevented if someone had actually paid attention. If trump saves us $8M, but he could have saved us $100M.... we're worse off.

Speaking of wasted time, it is not worth my time to explain the concept of prioritizing your work to increase value. That is a concept that everyone should already be familiar with.
 
Speaking of wasted time, it is not worth my time to explain the concept of prioritizing your work to increase value.
I know all about that. I run my own business... I have loads and route books, If I follow the books I waste my time and money going back to the same shopping centers, If I organize my loads and alter the order of the route book I save myself time and money, they don't care as long as it gets delivered on or before time...

As I said before, he probably didn't do any analyst of it. They probably said here are some numbers, cut them and read this. He had to have spent 40 seconds reading it. If he read it, he might of thought twice about the wording. But everything is twisted to make trump look bad right. Continue to ignore that though. Have a good day since we are done...
 
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I know all about that. I run my own business... I have loads and route books, If I follow the books I waste my time and money going back to the same shopping centers, If I organize my loads and alter the order of the route book I save myself time and money, they don't care as long as it gets delivered on or before time...

As I said before, he probably didn't do any analyst of it. They probably said here are some numbers, cut them and read this. He had to have spent 40 seconds reading it. If he read it, he might of thought twice about the wording. But everything is twisted to make trump look bad right. Continue to ignore that though. Have a good day since we are done...

I do love the "I want to state my opinion but don't want to be questioned" approach here. Just don't even bother commenting (thinking about?) at least half of what I wrote then.
 
More time spent on the $8M.

Ask a question then, what's confusing you?
The fact I said he should have killed 2 birds with one stone to save more money. To which you think is a waste of time. The reason our budget is screwed up cause no one "wastes their time" looking at it. Try to think how I'm looking at it.

I tried to explain I understand business efficiency. But I guess mine is to simple.
It takes me time to figure out how to setup my route off of a 10 year old route book.
But that half hour or hour can save me 5 hours and $50 in gas a day.

I don't agree that it is a waste of time to find wasted money.

Take Viagra off as a VA issue. It's not the VA's job to help them get a woody.
You can live a normal life with ED.

I don't think either are needed medical treatments in the VA or military.

Let them pay for it.

And something I just remembered. My dad can't get medical treatment from the VA for his eye that got injured with shrapnel during Nam. They have all his service records but conveniently can't find his medical records.

Hope that shines some light on my view.
 
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The fact I said he should have killed 2 birds with one stone to save more money. To which you think is a waste of time. The reason our budget is screwed up cause no one "wastes their time" looking at it. Try to think how I'm looking at it.

I tried to explain I understand business efficiency. But I guess mine is to simple.
It takes me time to figure out how to setup my route off of a 10 year old route book.
But that half hour or hour can save me 5 hours and $50 in gas a day.

I don't agree that it is a waste of time to find wasted money.

Take Viagra off as a VA issue. It's not the VA's job to help them get a woody.
You can live a normal life with ED.

I don't think either are needed medical treatments in the VA or military.

Let them pay for it.

And something I just remembered. My dad can't get medical treatment from the VA for his eye that got injured with shrapnel during Nam. They have all his service records but conveniently can't find his medical records.

Hope that shines some light on my view.

Ok. Let's pretend you're the president of the United States for a moment. You have, on your desk, a list of 10,000 possible places in the budget to find waste. What is the first thing you need to do to make that an efficient exercise?
 
The fact I said he should have killed 2 birds with one stone to save more money. To which you think is a waste of time. The reason our budget is screwed up cause no one "wastes their time" looking at it. Try to think how I'm looking at it.

I tried to explain I understand business efficiency. But I guess mine is to simple.
It takes me time to figure out how to setup my route off of a 10 year old route book.
But that half hour or hour can save me 5 hours and $50 in gas a day.

I don't agree that it is a waste of time to find wasted money.

Take Viagra off as a VA issue. It's not the VA's job to help them get a woody.
You can live a normal life with ED.

I don't think either are needed medical treatments in the VA or military.

Let them pay for it.

And something I just remembered. My dad can't get medical treatment from the VA for his eye that got injured with shrapnel during Nam. They have all his service records but conveniently can't find his medical records.

Hope that shines some light on my view.
Life is a lot more fun when you can raise your flag when it is needed.:sly:
 
Meh. I guess he just hasn't done anything that stood out to me as him actually proving he belongs where he's at. For all we know someone else is making the decisions and he's just pointing at them going "yeah, let's do that". The negatives still far outweighing the positives.
Wait, what stops this argument from being applied to any President then? There's more than enough conspiracy theories out there that the Preisdent is just a puppet.
 
Ok. Let's pretend you're the president of the United States for a moment. You have, on your desk, a list of 10,000 possible places in the budget to find waste. What is the first thing you need to do to make that an efficient exercise?
I know what you are getting at... Take the one with the highest estimated loss and work down from there.
 
just like the trannies
Wow. I almost can wait for your thoughts on the medical needs of fags and bitches in the military...
as far as I'm concerned, they discriminated against me when I tried to enroll in a time of war
This smacks of "I couldn't have something, so no-one else should either.".
Hope that shines some light on my view.
Yeah, unfortunately.


If Trump wanted to save $8.4m, he should have spent three fewer weekends at Mar-a-Lago. That'd have done it.
 
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This smacks of "I couldn't have something, so no-one else should either.".
I didn't cry discrimination that day it, was a joke, but I fit a group they don't allow. I brought it up to show the military is not an equal opportunity employer...
 
I didn't cry discrimination that day it, was a joke, but I fit a group they don't allow. I brought it up to show the military is not an equal opportunity employer...

...I mean, they shouldn't be - the miltary's primary aim is to train and arm soldiers to become the efficient killing machines, so it stands to reason they would rather not train and arm any potential nutcases and criminals, am I right?

Google.

http://military.findlaw.com/administrative-issues-benefits/equal-opportunity-policies-in-the-military.html
What is the Military Equal Opportunity Process?

Unlike many civilian employers, the military is allowed to discriminate in some areas based on the nature of its work. For example, it doesn't hire or retain those who, because of their age, disability, or physical fitness are unable to perform military duties, which can take place in harsh environments including combat zones.

So there has to be an actual reason. Physical fitness, criminal background, etc. can be considered a reason that is non-arbitrary. There is a thing in US government employment called "reasonable accommodation" which means that they don't have to take on a ridiculous burden to accommodate disabilities or physical challenges, but they might have to make "reasonable accommodations" for someone. So if you require an inexpensive medication, and you're stationed overseas, they might have to give it to you.
 
http://nypost.com/2017/08/01/admiral-vows-to-support-transgender-coast-guard-members/

The commandant of the US Coast Guard on Tuesday said that he will continue to support transgender people in his service despite President Trump’s tweet last week barring them from the military. Adm. Paul Zukunft said the first thing he did after learning about Trump’s surprise tweet was reach out to the 13 guard members who have come out as transgendered, including a woman who was featured in a profile in The Washington Post.
“I reached out personally to Lt. Taylor Miller,” Zukunft said at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, Military.com reported.

“If you read that story, Taylor’s family has disowned her. Her family is [now] the United States Coast Guard. And I told Taylor, ‘I will not turn my back. We have made an investment in you, and you have made an investment in the Coast Guard, and I will not break faith.’”
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Here's an article from someone who's had intersex surgery, that I find very interesting:

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

I was an intersex child who had surgery. Don't put other kids through this.

https://usat.ly/2wGVyuW

I don't care one way or an other what people do with their bodies. I'm pretty open minded about that, and it doesn't bother me one bit.

However, kids should NOT be having surgery for this. Not until they are 18. That shouldn't even be a debate IMO.
 
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