Transgender Thread.

[DesertPenguin]

Unless they are born with verifiable female plumbing then they are not female. I do not care how much they play dress up, using makeup and tucking their male parts out of sight.

If they are born with male plumbing then that duck remains a duck no matter how it quacks! Saying it is not a duck but now a pig does not make it so.

There's so much I want to say, but please. Just please. Get your anger sorted. You're allowed to have an opinion but at least let it be an informed one. For everyone's sake. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Danoff]

Unless they are born with verifiable female plumbing then they are not female.

How much verifiable female plumbing? Or male plumbing for that matter? If you're born with one testicle are you 50% male? How much of the internals can you be lacking before you're not female anymore?

 

[DesertPenguin]

I found the words I wanted to use.

Physical attributes don't dictate your gender identity.

 

[Danoff]

Physical attributes don't dictate your gender identity.

True... stereotypes apparently do though. And that's why I'm not a fan.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Not a fan of stereotypes or of gender identity?

 

[TexRex]

So what about intersex people?

"Hurr durr scientests is always finding out thems was wrong. One minute they's saying eggs be unhealthy and then they's frying one from the inside out with a laser beam. Not just duck eggs but pig eggs too."

Or something.

 

[G.T.Ace]

So what about intersex people?

I already hear "ThEy JuSt Go ThRoUgH a PhAsE" or some nonsense.

EDIT: Darn it @TexRex.

 

[Danoff]

Not a fan of stereotypes or of gender identity?

Gender identity. Stereotypes... uh... that's more of a mixed bag.

 

[ryzno]

I did, the question was WHO should PAY for it, like I said the conversation was moved from another thread to here.

Sorry you don't like my analogy.

*edit somehow that quoted post didn't work out as planned*
Droid keyboard is glitching a little...

 

[Daniel]

I did, the question was WHO should PAY for it, like I said the conversation was moved from another thread to here.

Sorry you don't like my analogy.

*edit somehow that quoted post didn't work out as planned*
Droid keyboard is glitching a little...

It's difficult to compare the two as you can argue that one could potentially be a medical necessity while the other is more of a choice (if you can find peer-reviewed scientific articles saying that LS-swaps are the cure for auto dysphoria, I'll happily change my mind and say that both are medical necessities )

The question of who should pay for it is going to get different answers. Those who are on one side of the political spectrum might say that a national health service ought to pay for it in the same way that any medical conditions ought to pay for it. Those who lean towards the other side may say that one's insurance would pay for it (which is what @Joey D mentioned further up in the thread). If their insurance doesn't cover gender-confirmation surgery then it may have to be paid out of pocket.

I don't think anyone in their right mind will say 'the parents should pay for it.' They had no choice in the matter in the same way that parents of queer children didn't have a choice in whom their child is attracted to.

 

[Danoff]

I don't think anyone in their right mind will say 'the parents should pay for it.' They had no choice in the matter in the same way that parents of queer children didn't have a choice in whom their child is attracted to.

I think the parents should pay for it if their child needs it to survive. Proving that last bit up (as prevention for suicide for example) is tough.

 

[Daniel]

I think the parents should pay for it if their child needs it to survive. Proving that last bit up (as prevention for suicide for example) is tough.

I see your point - totally forgot about trans kids who wouldn't actually have the money to transition.

Though I think doctors usually put the kids on puberty blockers until they're 18 so they can make a choice once they're of legal age.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

 

[MatskiMonk]

View attachment 881683

Seems pretty clear that your problem with transgender folks goes a long way past who pays for it.

Also... USAforTrump tagmark... figures.

 

[Danoff]

View attachment 881683

So many issues with this bit of nonsense. I'll just start by saying yes... that's consistent. They're not saying they want you to accept who they were, and couldn't accept who they were. They're saying you should accept who they are. See how that's consistent?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Seems pretty clear that your problem with transgender folks goes a long way past who pays for it.

My problem with transgenders and gays/lesbians is that it is being attempted their lifestyles to be shoved down everyone's throat that the normal straight people which is 98% of the population should support and accept it and are wrong if they do not.

Some people think that that lifestyle is not normal and not what nature intended and do not like it. We have just as much right to voice our opinions against it as those that support the alternate lifestyle.

So many issues with this bit of nonsense. I'll just start by saying yes... that's consistent. They're not saying they want you to accept who they were, and couldn't accept who they were. They're saying you should accept who they are. See how that's consistent?

The issues in your nonsense is that you are not accepting that people have a right to voice an opinion that differs from yours without being angry or needing to justify their views.
You act like you are a supreme authority on everything and every subject but no one needs to justify their viewpoints to you or anyone else actually.

 

[MatskiMonk]

We have just as much right to voice our opinions against it as those that support the alternate lifestyle.

Yeeeeahhhhh.... but really, you're just intolerant of other peoples right to live their lives that way "nature" HAS defined them, when actually it really has no real impact on your life, other than you choosing to take offence to it.

It's not about supporting anybodies specific "lifestyle", it's about respecting their right to choose their own "lifestyle" based on their bodies. You clearly don't believe in this right, or are at least threatened or intimidated by it.

 

[Moglet]

My problem with transgenders and gays/lesbians is that it is being attempted their lifestyles to be shoved down everyone's throat that the normal straight people which is 98% of the population should support and accept it and are wrong if they do not.

1) Being trans isn't a lifestyle choice, it's something you know and experience every minute you're awake. I'm non-binary not through a lifestyle choice but because I know that I cannot truthfully say my gender is male or female at any one time (have fun with that one...)
2) The main reason people shout about it so much is because people like you still exist. They just want to be accepted without worrying about being sexually assaulted just for existing or being singled out for being different. They should also be able to take a piss without worrying about what might happen to them.
3) The more they shout about it the more other people who may be experiencing the same things can relate to it. This can genuinely stop people from killing themselves. This was actually one of the driving forces behind me coming out on social media recently.

 

[Scaff]

My problem with transgenders and gays/lesbians is that it is being attempted their lifestyles to be shoved down everyone's throat that the normal straight people which is 98% of the population should support and accept it and are wrong if they do not.

Everyone is 'normal', you don't get to reserve it for your chosen people.

Some people think that that lifestyle is not normal and not what nature intended and do not like it.

Those people would be scientifically wrong.

We have just as much right to voice our opinions against it as those that support the alternate lifestyle.

You do indeed, just as people have a right to disagree with that and tell you so.

You seem to want an echo chamber, this isn't that place.

Not that any of what you have described is a lifestyle choice, but as you seem to think it is, can you tell me when you made the choice to be a straight male?

 

[Northstar]

being attempted their lifestyles to be shoved down everyone's throat

I don't see how that's any different than heterosexual couples constantly being crammed in our faces. If anything heterosexual couples tend to be far more noxious than homosexual ones. Especially around this time of the year when you can't walk 10 feet without seeing Valentine's Day crap. Homosexual couples also seem to grasp the fact not everyone wants to see them tongue wrestling on the sidewalk much better than their hetero counterparts.

 

[Famine]

not what nature intended

Nature is an intelligent force now?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

It's not about supporting anybodies specific "lifestyle", it's about respecting their right to choose their own "lifestyle" based on their bodies. You clearly don't believe in this right, or are at least threatened or intimidated by it.

They should also be able to take a piss without worrying about what might happen to them.

Threatened perhaps that a boy or man claiming to be something they are not to begin with can walk into a girls bathroom or even worse a schoolgirls locker room/shower and it considered acceptable.
That my friend will never be acceptable to a straight man with straight daughters or grandaughters as again where is their right (the young straight girl) to take a piss without worrying what might happen to them? There are two sides to every coin.

Everyone is 'normal', you don't get to reserve it for your chosen people.

It is very apparent your definition of what is normal and my definition of what is normal is no where near the same.

Nature is an intelligent force now?

Nature is intelligent enough to know that sexual relations are for creating offspring and those relations require a male and female to procreate. A male pretending to be a female with another male will never produce children so I guess it does have some intelligence.

 

[DesertPenguin]

It is very apparent your definition of what is normal and my definition of what is normal is no where near the same.

Nature is intelligent enough to know that sexual relations are for creating offspring and those relations require a male and female to procreate. A male pretending to be a female with another male will never produce children so I guess it does have some intelligence.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I'll be honest for a moment here. There was a time in my life where I very seriously questioned my sexual identity but over time talking to people about experiences and having my own I came to the conclusions that it is a sexual orientation thing. I've come in contact with some trans people that cover all parts of the spectrum and will support and defend them to the end of days.

That's why I'm here posting what I'm posting.

 

[Whitestar]

can you tell me when you made the choice to be a straight male?

Probably right after deciding where to be born.

 

[Joey D]

We have just as much right to voice our opinions against it as those that support the alternate lifestyle.

You have every right to voice that opinion, just like people have the right to think you're intolerant because of it.

But since you seem to like memes/cartoons, here you go:

I mean really, at what point in time did someone who was transgender hurt you? Or better yet, do you even know anyone who is transgender well enough to form an opinion?

 

[Famine]

Nature is intelligent enough to know that sexual relations are for creating offspring and those relations require a male and female to procreate. A male pretending to be a female with another male will never produce children so I guess it does have some intelligence.

What's the evidence for nature having intelligence and intentions?

I don't think the 'nature doesn't do it' argument helps you out too much. Homosexuality has been documented in over 1,000 animal species, individual animals from several species spontaneously change gender - perhaps the most/least famous is the clown fish; Nemo's dad in nature would have transitioned to become Nemo's mum - and parthenogenesis (that's birth from a single parent without fertilisation from a second individual) exists throughout nature up to species as large and complex as the Komodo Dragon.

Nature's not quite the straightforward thing you seem to think it is.

 

[Dennisch]

sexual relations are for creating offspring

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You're a special one. Explain to me how the friendly pastor in church will get a little boy pregnant.

Edit.

There also hasn't been one single time in my mind that when I was having sex that I wanted the girl on the receiving end of my penis to become pregnant.

Explain that one too.

 

[DesertPenguin]

What's the evidence for nature having intelligence and intentions?

I don't think the 'nature doesn't do it' argument helps you out too much. Homosexuality has been documented in over 1,000 animal species, individual animals from several species spontaneously change gender - perhaps the most/least famous is the clown fish; Nemo's dad in nature would have transitioned to become Nemo's mum - and parthenogenesis (that's birth from a single parent without fertilisation from a second individual) exists throughout nature up to species as large and complex as the Komodo Dragon.

Nature's not quite the straightforward thing you seem to think it is.

Yea, but when were those things discovered? Probably sometime after he formed his opinions on the subject.

 

[Scaff]

Threatened perhaps that a boy or man claiming to be something they are not to begin with can walk into a girls bathroom or even worse a schoolgirls locker room/shower and it considered acceptable.
That my friend will never be acceptable to a straight man with straight daughters or grandaughters as again where is their right (the young straight girl) to take a piss without worrying what might happen to them? There are two sides to every coin.
It is very apparent your definition of what is normal and my definition of what is normal is no where near the same.

So rather than actually answer the questions and points raised you try the 'won't somebody think of the children' myth.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/5/13/17938102/transgender-people-bathrooms-locker-rooms-schools

Answer the question, when did you make the conscious lifestyle choice to be a straight male?

Nature is intelligent enough to know that sexual relations are for creating offspring and those relations require a male and female to procreate. A male pretending to be a female with another male will never produce children so I guess it does have some intelligence.

Please explain infertility in straight people and homosexuality is numerous species outside of humans?