Transgender Thread.

[Rallywagon]

So, for instance, when a restaurant owner seek to hire people, what does the classified ad look like regarding waiter/waitress mention? And did this change over time?

They would ask for wait staff. Having spent a good number if my late teens and early 20s working in restaurants, this would have been 96-02ish, this was the norm in the classifieds. No idea what it was like before that though.

 

[TexRex]

No idea what it was like before that though.

"Waitress needed. Tight, young thing with perky breasts. No penis."

/s

 

[TenEightyOne]

So, for instance, when a restaurant owner seek to hire people, what does the classified ad look like regarding waiter/waitress mention?

"Waiting staff". That's been common for quite a long time, although adverts will also have said waiters/waitresses.

"Waitress needed. Tight, young thing with perky breasts. No penis."

/s

I once hired a "non-attractive" waitress for an Italian restaurant. Her experience was impeccable and she was willing to work for the low wage we offered.

The restaurant owner called me a **** and pointed out that I must be gay if I thought she was worth hiring. 'Appy daysa.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There are two genders I dont care about 400 other abnormal stuff that are called genders.

There are at least five genders, that's a scientific fact and not anything to do with opinion. Your use of "abnormal" suggests that you can't be bothered to get your head around understanding it further and instead would prefer to overlay the facts with a differing and misinformed opinion . Is that the case?

There are people who sexually indentify as a Attack helicopter when are you going to welcome these people?

I'd welcome them to a dictionary club, it would do them the world of good.

 

[Dotini]

Are the properties of the immune system of transgendered people indistinguishable? Are the properties of their blood or DNA any different from the mean, mode or median range?

Can transgendered people be medically identified by postmortem analysis? Does transgender status make any statistical difference in a person's physical or mental health, wealth, social status, happiness and/or ability to adapt or cope with unusual challenges such as a lockdown, recession or war?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Are the properties of the immune system of transgendered people indistinguishable? Are the properties of their blood or DNA any different from the mean, mode or median range?

Why?

Can transgendered people be medically identified by postmortem analysis?

I'm not a pathologist but I think that it could be possible dependent on the physical evidence presented by the corpse.

Does transgender status make any statistical difference in a person's physical or mental health, wealth, social status, happiness and/or ability to adapt or cope with unusual challenges such as a lockdown, recession or war?

I think I see what you're getting at and I'm not sure this is the right thread for that particular train of thought... but to physical and mental health there surely has to be a "yes", at least it can.

 

[Dotini]

Of what specific benefit is transgender to the evolution of the human species, economy, society or individual?

Are these benefits particular or necessary to specific nations, or are they universally applicable in every nation and culture on the globe?

 

[Scaff]

There are two genders I dont care about 400 other abnormal stuff that are called genders.

There are three biological sexes (as a minimum), Male, Female and Intersex. Gender (or sexuality for that matter) are not the same as biological sex.

However, don't let facts hold back your bigotry.

There are people who sexually indentify as a Attack helicopter when are you going to welcome these people?

More than happy to welcome them, the real question is why on earth would it bother you what anyone else wants to do in this regard? Does it somehow affect you personally?

 

[PzR Slim]

There are three biological sexes (as a minimum), Male, Female and Intersex. Gender (or sexuality for that matter) are not the same as biological sex.

Biological sex is binary. Determined by the potential ability to produce small (male) or large (female) gametes for reproduction purposes. Intersex people are either male or female where the development of that ability to produce small or large gametes somehow went wrong. However, that doesn't make them a third sex.

 

[Scaff]

Biological sex is binary. Determined by the potential ability to produce small (male) or large (female) gametes for reproduction purposes. Intersex people are either male or female where the development of that ability to produce small or large gametes somehow went wrong. However, that doesn't make them a third sex.

I wasn't limiting it to humans.

It's also not settled science for humans either. http://bostonreview.net/science-nat...sto-sterling-science-wont-settle-trans-rights

 

[PzR Slim]

I wasn't limiting it to humans.

It's also not settled science for humans either. http://bostonreview.net/science-nat...sto-sterling-science-wont-settle-trans-rights

I'll give you mushrooms but that's it.

 

[Scaff]

I'll give you mushrooms but that's it.

And as I mentioned, the scientific community sin;t in wholesale agreement on this.

"The development of rapid diagnostic tools are enabling better diagnoses/classifications and provide for a better understanding of DSD conditions, better genetic counseling, assessment of reproductive options and more precise outcome studies.

New genetic and genomic technologies are expanding our knowledge of the underlying mechanisms of DSDs and open novel clinical diagnostic strategies. At patient presentation, the current approach is to (a) search for additional phenotypic information, including urgent metabolic and endocrine testing and imaging studies; (b) rapidly identify the sex chromosome complement by karyotype analysis or FISH with X and Y probes and chromosome microarray, and (c) test for copy number variants in regions associated with known DSD genes. Gene sequencing, either of single candidate genes or a gene panel, based on information gleaned from previous phenotypic investigations, is often the last step of the diagnostic process.

Only limited numbers of the many identified genes involved in sex development are currently available for clinical testing. The current standard for genetic diagnosis is sequencing a small number of known DSD-causative genes chosen as likely candidates based on disease phenotype. Large numbers of patients do not receive a clinical molecular diagnosis using this narrow scope, and it is assumed that many DSD-causative genes remain to be identified.

An alternative diagnostic approach could use next-generation sequencing (whole exome or whole genome sequencing) as a first-line clinical test and lead to a rapid and definitive diagnosis in the majority of cases. However, this approach is faced with hurdles including long turn-around times, high costs, a lack of insurance approval or national healthcare system coverage and difficulties in the interpretation of the results, such as questions about reporting of nonrelated incidental findings or sequence variations which are significant but not recognized as such. These obstacles are likely to be overcome in the future, and next-generation sequencing is likely to become one of the first methods used for the diagnosis of DSD.

Currently, in instances in which a genetic diagnosis and the risk of recurrence are known, there is the possibility of prenatal diagnosis in subsequent pregnancies.

A review of human sex determination genetics has recently been published [42]. The complexity of genetic regulation, even with advanced technology to identify mutations and copy number variations, is insufficient to explain the observed phenotypes. Genetics alone remains unable to explain the biological and psychological issues related to individuals with DSDs."

https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/442975


However none of that changes the point I was actually making, which is the member I quoted conflating Sex and Gender.

 

[lancia delta hf]

Biological sex is binary. Determined by the potential ability to produce small (male) or large (female) gametes for reproduction purposes. Intersex people are either male or female where the development of that ability to produce small or large gametes somehow went wrong. However, that doesn't make them a third sex.

And it doesnt make someone a bigot to believe that, even if they happened to be wrong. Also if sex and gender arent the same thing then why is there such a thing as trans? why does a biological man identify as the opposite gender. They are totally the same thing. People can live how they want, but they shouldnt try to force their beliefs on the rest of us and especially not through shaming them.

 

[PzR Slim]

And it doesnt make someone a bigot to believe that, even if they happened to be wrong. Also if sex and gender arent the same thing then why is there such a thing as trans? why does a biological man identify as the opposite gender. They are totally the same thing. People can live how they want, but they shouldnt try to force their beliefs on the rest of us and especially not through shaming them.

Biological sex is an observable scientific fact. Gender is a social construct. The two are very much not the same thing.

 

[Scaff]

And it doesnt make someone a bigot to believe that, even if they happened to be wrong. Also if sex and gender arent the same thing then why is there such a thing as trans? why does a biological man identify as the opposite gender. They are totally the same thing.

Nope, quite, quite different things.

People can live how they want,

Indeed.

but they shouldnt try to force their beliefs on the rest of us and especially not through shaming them.

Good job they aren't doing that then.

 

[TexRex]

And it doesnt make someone a bigot to believe that, even if they happened to be wrong.

The bigotry comes in when individuals and/or groups are intolerant of other individuals and/or groups because of perceived differences.

This could be as simple as an unwillingness to use an individual's preferred pronoun--particularly when that preferred pronoun is made known--because it's "catering to delusion".

There's also the absurd and unfounded assumption that anyone not equipped from birth with particular genitalia seeks to enter a facility "intended for" those with contrasting genitalia with malicious intent. Things get muddier with individuals who possess neither complete set, and whose outward appearance doesn't correspond to inner anatomy.

Also if sex and gender arent the same thing then why is there such a thing as trans?

why does a biological man identify as the opposite gender.

Why does it matter?

They are totally the same thing.

Nope. Take note that the difference is acknowledged in the second definition provided above.

People can live how they want, but they shouldnt try to force their beliefs on the rest of us and especially not through shaming them.

Citation needed.

Oh, and I'm compelled to point out the irony of someone complaining about belief being forced upon them while attempting to force their own misguided belief on others.

 

[PzR Slim]

There's also the absurd and unfounded assumption that anyone not equipped from birth with particular genitalia seeks to enter a facility "intended for" those with contrasting genitalia with malicious intent.

I don't see anyone asserting that. However, I do see a lot of women and girls who are fearful about what it could mean for them if any male-bodied person can self ID into a space where they are particularly vulnerable. Do you think my teenage daughter should be able to get showered and changed in a communal changing facility free from penises?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Why does it matter?

In an ideal world this is where the discussion ends but we all know people care too much about things that don't affect them so...

 

[TexRex]

I don't see anyone asserting that.

It's a common tactic of those seeking to incite moral panic over bathroom bill proposals that would entitle non-binary individuals to make use of public (to varying degrees) bathroom facilities previously intended for those of one half of a binary. Something that countless individuals have previously done without drawing attention and/or without incident.

However, I do see a lot of women and girls who are fearful about what it could mean for them if any male-bodied person can self ID into a space where they are particularly vulnerable.

Thankfully those spaces are protected by portals of entry capable of detecting wouldbe entrants' physical and/or biological configuration and subsequently restricting access if it's deemed necessary.

Oh, wait...

The simple fact is that a man (in this instance, anyway) who seeks to do harm is not going to be deterred by blue triangular signage with a crude depiction of a person wearing a skirt so as to indicate the facility as being intended for women and/or girls (again, in this particular instance).

Do you think my teenage daughter should be able to get showered and changed in a communal changing facility free from penises?

I absolutely do, and if that's her desire (or your desire for her), such a facility should be sought out. The simple fact is that not every available facility is going to be able to fulfill that desire.

Or an effort could be made to violently remove any penises from an available facility prior to showering and changing, and a door with a sign on it won't prevent that.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Or an effort could be made to violently remove any penises

Cut to the evening news....

"The Illinois Penis Bandit is at it again!"

 

[Dotini]

People can live how they want

Nope. People cannot live how they want. People must compromise, conform, pay their bills and earn their keep. In order to avoid being derelict, shunned or isolated, they must share basic values and beliefs with the rest of society.

 

[TexRex]

I'm reminded of a great tune.

What's so bad about a penis?
An ordinary organ just hangin' there
Will the sight of a male member give us rabies or distemper?
Tell me what's so bad about a penis that's bare

The Toyes - What's So Bad About a Penis?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Nope. People cannot live how they want. People must compromise, conform, pay their bills and earn their keep. In order to avoid being derelict, shunned or isolated, they must share basic values and beliefs with the rest of society.

Um.....

 

[TexRex]

Um.....

Watch yourself. That particular pitfall leads to sharpened, ****-covered wooden stakes such as "meaning and purpose" and "universal consciousness".

 

[FoRiZon]

Nope. People cannot live how they want. People must compromise, conform, pay their bills and earn their keep. In order to avoid being derelict, shunned or isolated, they must share basic values and beliefs with the rest of society.

Oh.

Okay. I guess now I know what kind of people you are actually.

 

[Dotini]

Longest sentence in GTP?

"Some slight play of hazardous phrases about the fringes of the institutional fabric may be tolerated by the popular taste, as an element of spice, and as indicating a generous and unbiased mind; but in such cases the conclusive test of scientific competency and leadership, in the popular apprehension, is a serene and magniloquent return to the orthodox commonplaces after all such playful excursions."

- Thorstein Veblen, Theory of the Leisure Class, 1919​

 

[DesertPenguin]

Longest sentence in GTP?

"Some slight play of hazardous phrases about the fringes of the institutional fabric may be tolerated by the popular taste, as an element of spice, and as indicating a generous and unbiased mind; but in such cases the conclusive test of scientific competency and leadership, in the popular apprehension, is a serene and magniloquent return to the orthodox commonplaces after all such playful excursions."

- Thorstein Veblen, Theory of the Leisure Class, 1919​

Do you even know what you just said? Are you just being silly now or defending some farfetched opinion about transgenders? Because if it's the former then it's off-topic at this point so stop being silly.

 

[PzR Slim]

It's a common tactic of those seeking to incite moral panic over bathroom bill proposals that would entitle non-binary individuals to make use of public (to varying degrees) bathroom facilities previously intended for those of one half of a binary. Something that countless individuals have previously done without drawing attention and/or without incident.


Thankfully those spaces are protected by portals of entry capable of detecting wouldbe entrants' physical and/or biological configuration and subsequently restricting access if it's deemed necessary.

Oh, wait...

The simple fact is that a man (in this instance, anyway) who seeks to do harm is not going to be deterred by blue triangular signage with a crude depiction of a person wearing a skirt so as to indicate the facility as being intended for women and/or girls (again, in this particular instance).


I absolutely do, and if that's her desire (or your desire for her), such a facility should be sought out. The simple fact is that not every available facility is going to be able to fulfill that desire.

Or an effort could be made to violently remove any penises from an available facility prior to showering and changing, and a door with a sign on it won't prevent that.

We'll never be able to deter men from doing harm to women because too many of us are complete arseholes. And a sign is not going to stop anyone I agree. Currently, however, we teach girls from a young age to be wary around men in certain situations and scream, shout and get out of other more dangerous situations. What do we teach them to do if any male bodied person can self ID into any female safe space? And what does my daughter or any women for that matter do if penis free spaces become a thing of the past?

 

[UKMikey]

We'll never be able to deter men from doing harm to women because too many of us are complete arseholes. And a sign is not going to stop anyone I agree. Currently, however, we teach girls from a young age to be wary around men in certain situations and scream, shout and get out of other more dangerous situations. What do we teach them to do if any male bodied person can self ID into any female safe space? And what does my daughter or any women for that matter do if penis free spaces become a thing of the past?

The toilet cubicles in my office are all unisex.

 

[PzR Slim]

The toilet cubicles in my office are all unisex.

That must be a PITA when you are trying to get work done and people keep coming into your office

Are they fully enclosed with handwashing facilities in each one?