Transgender Thread.

[Joey D]

Maybe. I think most of them would be in the fox news "I don't know what woke is but it means whatever I don't like" camp.

A large percentage? Sure. But I think there is a growing number of people who just can't be bothered anymore because no matter how much they try, they get called a transphobe or a bigot. I think this is especially true in the Xennial age group where we're young enough to be seen as more liberal while old enough to start being set in our ways. Like I'm 100% ok with being gay or lesbian and, even though I don't understand it, I recognize trans people's right to exist. It's still a strange concept to me, but I think they should be just treated like people.

Things I struggle with are gender identities like "animaliagender." While it might be a real thing, I have a tough time accepting it and it just seems completely made up. I don't even know how to approach it either. I would attempt to be respectful, but I think there's a line where I just don't want to interact with someone because of it.

There's also the whole "be offended by everything". Conservatives are famous for it, but liberals are just as bad at times, especially younger liberals and I can see how that pushes some people away.

It may well be because many/most of the interactions they've had were from people with bad intentions.

If the situation is that a significant minority of the public may wish you harm (from abuse, harassment, to violence), then assuming 'bad intentions' may well be defensive. That said, this may well vary on a country-by-country/Location-by-location basis, I've LGBT friends from South America (and now live in the UK) who took years to adjust to the fact that being openly gay didn't automatically put their lives in very real danger of death, that they assumed bad intentions on the part of strangers was 100% not surprising.

I'm sure many interactions are bad, and I can understand initially being wary, but assuming everyone has bad intentions is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If someone isn't indicting they have bad intentions, don't assume they have them. If they start to show bad intentions, then by all means, get away from them or call them on it.

I use the example of pronouns. If your name is something like Tiffany, I will probably refer to you as "she/her," which is reasonable to assume. If you tell me your pronouns are "they/them," I will make an effort to use them, but I still might not do it 100% because it goes against years of ingrained social cues. I think there needs to be some give and take where people with non-traditional genders need to understand that it's going to be difficult for most people to break their habits, and some are not being willfully cruel.

In New Zealand for instance, we're very unlikely to use the term Two Spirit since it's not an identity that is commonly used here.

From what I've learned, "two spirit" is a Canadian First Nations and American Native American concept. Apparently, almost all native and indigenous groups have a different word for the concept.

 

[Daniel]

From what I've learned, "two spirit" is a Canadian First Nations and American Native American concept. Apparently, almost all native and indigenous groups have a different word for the concept.

It's another one of those all-encompassing terms to refer to the various gender identities that don't have a (direct) Western equivalent.

For instance, Cree has a number of different identities that sorta boil down to the Western equivalent of "trans man" and "trans woman", whereas Lakota have one, wíŋkte, that across time has been used to refer to men who dressed and acted as women, but also looks to be used to refer to gay men.

 

[Scaff]

I'm sure many interactions are bad, and I can understand initially being wary, but assuming everyone has bad intentions is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If someone isn't indicting they have bad intentions, don't assume they have them. If they start to show bad intentions, then by all means, get away from them or call them on it.

I didn't claim it was rational or logical, most defense mechanisms become automatic and can be hard to break, and yes it can also be self-fulfilling, but if you're so used to getting the crap kicked out of you for 'x' then why not get your dig in first (again not always rational, but it is the reality of the situation. I grew up one of the poorest kids in the class, and can relate to it).

I use the example of pronouns. If your name is something like Tiffany, I will probably refer to you as "she/her," which is reasonable to assume. If you tell me your pronouns are "they/them," I will make an effort to use them, but I still might not do it 100% because it goes against years of ingrained social cues. I think there needs to be some give and take where people with non-traditional genders need to understand that it's going to be difficult for most people to break their habits, and some are not being willfully cruel.

Again in an ideal world equal give and take would be perfect, but consider that it's not equal in this regard. For you it's the occasional introduction, for them, it's pretty much every introduction.

 

[Shaun]

I start that by calling every trans person by whatever pronoun they like.

I would like this comment twice if I could.

 

[Duke]

In almost every health system, you have male-to-female trans people attempting to schedule OB/GYN appointments, which obviously makes no sense. On the flip side you have female-to-male trans people attempting to schedule appointments with men's health. In an ideal world, it would be fine to let them because it makes them feel more at home with their chosen gender. In the real world, though, it's taxing on specialties where appointments are already at a premium.

Is it really,though? How much of an actual issue is this, and how much is it a perception?

I'm genuinely asking, though I suspect it's really not a very large number.

 

[Joey D]

Is it really,though? How much of an actual issue is this, and how much is it a perception?

I'm genuinely asking, though I suspect it's really not a very large number.

Based on the internal data I have, it's a big enough problem that I'm being asked to figure out a solution. OB/GYN care is pretty taxed as it is, especially in an area with a high birth rate. Men's health is probably more taxed than OB/GYN, though, just due to there being fewer available providers. OB/GYN care seems to be a more popular specialty for med students to pursue because, presumably, you get to deal with babies and happier patients.

 

[Moglet]

I use the example of pronouns. If your name is something like Tiffany, I will probably refer to you as "she/her," which is reasonable to assume. If you tell me your pronouns are "they/them," I will make an effort to use them, but I still might not do it 100% because it goes against years of ingrained social cues. I think there needs to be some give and take where people with non-traditional genders need to understand that it's going to be difficult for most people to break their habits, and some are not being willfully cruel.

I've taken to using they/them for everyone I meet until I know for certain which pronouns they use. It took a few months of doing it but I got there. Admittedly it helps working in the games industry as the percentage of queer folk is higher than most other jobs, but it has already been noted by several people as being helpful to them.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I would hate to lecture in those specialties now. Most professors are nice folk, and the potential of offending someone would be mortifying to them. But terms would have to be updated to be inclusive, and it's going to be a weird switch from "traditional" labels.

Is there, for example, a suitable replacement for describing the maternal circulation when a person is pregnant when differentiating it from the foetal circulation?

"Host" circulation sounds a bit....yeah

Parental circulation maybe?

EDIT: That reminds me of this post. So the change can be simple, but people have to be willing to change.

 

[Joey D]

I've taken to using they/them for everyone I meet until I know for certain which pronouns they use. It took a few months of doing it but I got there. Admittedly it helps working in the games industry as the percentage of queer folk is higher than most other jobs, but it has already been noted by several people as being helpful to them.

I do attempt to do this, and it's pretty easy when writing e-mails, but it's not as easy when speaking.

Is there, for example, a suitable replacement for describing the maternal circulation when a person is pregnant when differentiating it from the foetal circulation?

It should be uteroplacental circulation since that is the medical term for it. We shouldn't be changing medical terminology to fit specific things since you get into a whole other can of worms.

 

[Duke]

Based on the internal data I have, it's a big enough problem that I'm being asked to figure out a solution.

All right, fair enough. I admit that, on this subject at least, my default assumption is that perceived issues are largely hysteria.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I do attempt to do this, and it's pretty easy when writing e-mails, but it's not as easy when speaking.

I find that it's easier to do when speaking if I treat it as if I'm speaking to impress someone, i.e. when projecting confidence. That way I focus on my words more than usual.

It's not perfect, but it does the trick (mostly) for this socially anxious guy.

It should be uteroplacental circulation since that is the medical term for it. We shouldn't be changing medical terminology to fit specific things since you get into a whole other can of worms.

I think that is distinct from the systemic maternal and foetal circulations.

And medicine is constantly evolving!

For example, granulomatosis with polyangiitis used to be called Wegener's granulomatosis until his Nazi past was brought to light. Sure, you may still get some old-timers referring to it as that out of habit as that's what they've used for decades, but eventually the new term will stick.

 

[Joey D]

All right, fair enough. I admit that, on this subject at least, my default assumption is that perceived issues are largely hysteria.

Ya, it's probably fair to go to hysteria since that does seem to be the norm. I probably would've thought it was hysteria too unless if the request hadn't been accompanied with data.

I think that is distinct from the systemic maternal and foetal circulations.

And medicine is constantly evolving!

For example, granulomatosis with polyangiitis used to be called Wegener's granulomatosis until his Nazi past was brought to light. Sure, you may still get some old-timers referring to it as that out of habit as that's what they've used for decades, but eventually the new term will stick.

Possibly, my OB/GYN knowledge is fairly limited.

Also, in terms of what we call things, it might differ a bit from the UK to the US. We still very much call it Wegener's. I just worked with an otolaryngology clinic and they referred to it as Wegener's/GPA. I get that things need to evolve and names need to change, a good example is Monkey Pox to M-POX, but when it comes to describing systems in the body we probably shouldn't be changing it.

 

[Daniel]

Ya, it's probably fair to go to hysteria since that does seem to be the norm. I probably would've thought it was hysteria too unless if the request hadn't been accompanied with data.

Would it be worth running a focus group with some people from the local trans community to get their thoughts on it, or get in touch with various trans-affirming healthcare providers to see what they do?

Might also be worth seeing what percentage of the trans community in your area do check-ins with clinicians who specialist in what parts they have. In other words, how many trans AFAB people try to make appointments with OB/GYNs that slip under the radar vs. how many of them try to make appointments with 'men's' healthcare specialists (and vice versa)?

I wonder if some trans men don't feel welcome at OB/GYNs because they end up being treated like women (from a gender and sex perspective) rather than men who happen to have female anatomy.

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@Danoff if you liked Natalie's video essays so far, I'd also recommend Abigail Thorn of PhilosophyTube!