- 23
- Indiana
- docholiday720
I could do this also. I didn't in the first place because I thought we would have enough drivers. Can't believe we only had four drivers. Anyways just let me know and I can test on a different track.
doc
Tuner Challenge Championship ~ April McLaren MP4
- Thread starter Adrenaline
- 897 comments
- 75,072 views
I could do this also. I didn't in the first place because I thought we would have enough drivers. Can't believe we only had four drivers. Anyways just let me know and I can test on a different track.
doc
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Well, we can extend the NSX to the 7th.
That gives an extra week, 3 weeks total to the tuners.
Possibly include that week for the Z lap times to allow more drivers to get times in.
Then on the 7th we'll start the April's voted car, the McLaren, and use the 30th as the deadline, for another 3 week tuning period. Then as of May we'll stick with 1 car per month, as the original layout was designed.
As for tracks, I've come up with a compromise that may work well. After thinking about the transmission issues, scoring system, driver comparisons, and so on, I came up with the following idea, to still allow some flexibility, and still provide a focused tune atmosphere.
Each month there's a 3 track option, separated in alike categories.
For example, We'd say that the NSX will be run on your choice of 3 tracks.
Tsukuba, Deep Forest, Eiger Short Track.
These are 3 short, tight tracks. This would allow tuners to focus their transmissions to a specific 'type' of track, but still require them to take multiple tracks into account suspension wise.
This should rid of extreme track differences that would favor specific transmission settings. Tsukuba vs High Speed Ring for example.
This will also help with localized tuning, rather than a blind hope you've tuned with the right track in mind. Tuners will know from day one what the car will need.
This still allows drivers to avoid tracks that would alter results, giving them the opportunity to choose their stronger track for more accuracy.
I'm just speaking out loud for the moment, please feel free to chime in with any thoughts, suggestions or feedback.
That gives an extra week, 3 weeks total to the tuners.
Possibly include that week for the Z lap times to allow more drivers to get times in.
Then on the 7th we'll start the April's voted car, the McLaren, and use the 30th as the deadline, for another 3 week tuning period. Then as of May we'll stick with 1 car per month, as the original layout was designed.
As for tracks, I've come up with a compromise that may work well. After thinking about the transmission issues, scoring system, driver comparisons, and so on, I came up with the following idea, to still allow some flexibility, and still provide a focused tune atmosphere.
Each month there's a 3 track option, separated in alike categories.
For example, We'd say that the NSX will be run on your choice of 3 tracks.
Tsukuba, Deep Forest, Eiger Short Track.
These are 3 short, tight tracks. This would allow tuners to focus their transmissions to a specific 'type' of track, but still require them to take multiple tracks into account suspension wise.
This should rid of extreme track differences that would favor specific transmission settings. Tsukuba vs High Speed Ring for example.
This will also help with localized tuning, rather than a blind hope you've tuned with the right track in mind. Tuners will know from day one what the car will need.
This still allows drivers to avoid tracks that would alter results, giving them the opportunity to choose their stronger track for more accuracy.
I'm just speaking out loud for the moment, please feel free to chime in with any thoughts, suggestions or feedback.
- 703
Hmmm 3 drivers, what a pity, but it well get better! At least that's what I hope for.
The NSX looks interesting for me! I drove it just yesterday after I finished the Xanavi Z driving and it feels, that little tuning makes a lot more of a difference on the NSX?!?
About my testing, I said I will comment on all tunes, that's ok but you wil have to wait till sunday or monday! Just a short notice the best test track was deep forest on the others (high speed and tsukuba) there was just (too) little of a difference between the tunes. And all (almost) tuners did a very good job...
The NSX looks interesting for me! I drove it just yesterday after I finished the Xanavi Z driving and it feels, that little tuning makes a lot more of a difference on the NSX?!?
About my testing, I said I will comment on all tunes, that's ok but you wil have to wait till sunday or monday! Just a short notice the best test track was deep forest on the others (high speed and tsukuba) there was just (too) little of a difference between the tunes. And all (almost) tuners did a very good job...
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
I think that kinda complicates things. Now I have to turn in three tunes, one for short, medium and long courses. If I knew each set of tracks, I might want to change more than just transmission? I am fine with the overall tuning for 90% of the tracks in the game like we did this last time (just still think Nurburgring is really different). All tunes except for one in the current challenge used nearly identical top speeds. Only one tuner tried a crazy setting and I think it bit him. I think you should just mandate a top speed and let the drivers pick their tracks.
It would be cool to know in advance what tracks each driver prefers and whether they are using a wheel or the DS3. For example, my current NSX tune is toned down from the way I liked to drive it because a couple of friends using wheels said it was pretty loose on exit.
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- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Code:
[SIZE="3"][B]Pos Tuner Points Behind Leader
[COLOR="Red"]1 - NTwo 25
2 - Motor City 24 1
3 - Rotary J 24 1
4 - budious 22 3
5 - Niigma 17 8
6 - NM Racing 14 11[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]1 more driver to include which will result in 5 drivers, (7 simulated) on 6 tracks: Tsukuba, Deep Forest(2), Fuji GT, Suzuka, High Speed Ring & Trial Mountain.
Doc (or anyone) if you want to test on a 2nd track and can have it done by Tuesday Evening then by all means feel free to do so.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Damn, check out what happens when my tuning theory gets shot through someone else's brain. 
- 23
- Indiana
- docholiday720
Will do. Tuesday is my day off and the wife has to work so it shouldn't be a problem. Thinking I might try Laguna Seca.
doc
So, I spent a couple of hours testing again on Autumn Ring Mini, but now I'm not sure I should submit these times... First of all the results were quite different from Suzuka, and also the differences in lap times between tunes was very small (but the differences in handling were huge). Perhaps more awkwardly none of the tunes beat my stock times! What do you guys think?
- 703
I would finally like to know which tune is who? It was on the result box for a short time and I didn't write it down... and my comments will probably be posted this evening, when I'm watching TV...
@yanaran: I testet on very short tracks and times are almost the same! I wouldn't say a tune that is 0.050 sec faster than an other one, is faster in general but then it comes to you personal feeling how a tune did and I think this is more important!
@yanaran: I testet on very short tracks and times are almost the same! I wouldn't say a tune that is 0.050 sec faster than an other one, is faster in general but then it comes to you personal feeling how a tune did and I think this is more important!
The setup is the same as I used on Suzuka, with chassis upgrade and all settings double checked. The thing is I'm very comfortable on Suzuka having done 3 endurance races in addition to testing all my Super GT/JGTC cars there. I may not be super fast, but I know the times I submitted are a good representation of how the tunes worked for me.
Autumn Ring on the other hand is something I've ran maybe once or twice in A-spec and that's it. I only decided to try it because you suggested it as a good quick test track, I had to do almost 100 practice laps before I felt comfortable enough to start writing down times!
. I don't even know if I'm driving the right lines, or if my times are horrible!I think you're right that it's got a lot to do with driving style, the stock setup actually fared quite well on Suzuka as well. 👍
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
- 1,139
- budious
I suggested it because it was short, I'd prefer they run the Nordschleife. Like this guy mentions though, unless you've run a bunch of laps at ARM then you probably will have a difficult time with it. My best lap there was around 34.1"
I can understand objecting to Nordschleife for practical purposes of time and testing restraints, but perhaps Adrenaline or Basilea would like to include it in their mini-review with an opinionated review of a single lap with each tune on the Nordschleife, it would be an interesting read other than interpreting numbers from driver results.
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- 703
First a big thank you to all tuners, all tune are better and faster than the stock settings. Only Tune B was slower on High Speed Ring because of the short gearing and Tune D, but I have no idea why on this one maybe the weird gearing and I didn't like the tunes feeling... Something I wonder is why did some gear the car for speeds over 290 km/h? The car can't do more there is not enough power... or am I wrong? On the track I tested 290 was the highest speed I reached.
Now, I hope noone is upset and can make their tune better.
- Tune B:
Well this tune was just too slow geared for the High Speed Ring and therefore it was even slower than the stock settings. Felt a little like the car hovers through corners. On Deep Forest the last gear was still a little too short, but has a stable overall feeling.
- Tune C:
High Speed Ring bit oversteer/spin in in fast corners, little "ghost" countersteer. Deep Forest very good suspension feeling, absorbs most bumps. Good overall tune!
- Tune D:
High Speed Ring the tune spins in/oversteers in the last corner, inconsistent. Tsukuba it felt inconsistent as well, slides in corners, weird gearing. On Deep Forest the 5th and 6th gear was useless, which probably is for all tracks as the car will never get over 290 km/h.
- Tune E:
On Tsukuba consistent, stable, bit slidy in corners. High Speed Ring good overall feeling, living car. Deep Forest I could have done better times but not in the short time I gave on every tune, most potential in my opinion.
I think this is the best tune! I fits my driving style and I had fun driving this tune!
- Tune F:
Tsukuba high average times. High Speed Ring unspectacular, 6 gear useless, because car won't go over 290 km/h. Spins on some corners. LSD feels weird but I'm not sure as I don't get how the LSD really works, I kind of don't see differences, yet.
- Tune G:
High Speed Ring no spin, no over-/understeer, consisten, boring, "death". Deep Forest if then a bit understeery... but also kind of bland, I didn't feel the car, which is probably because of the very high camber setting. I almost fell asleep driving this tune, there is just no life in the car!
Now, I hope noone is upset and can make their tune better.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
Some were using weird gearing to take maximum advantage of the powerband, particularly when most people shift at redline. Very wide gearing is needed to ever even HIT peak power after you shift out of first gear without shifting a bit early.
Going longer on the gearing to an extent makes top speed higher; the "you should be redlining on the longest straight" thing is a complete myth in some cars, this one particularly. It's a waste of power. As is making any gear short enough that you get more than just slight wheelspin. The car's needs may have dictated that certain people actually make higher gears completely useless, the car simply does not need them (and, in truth, will be slower with closer ratios for those using automatic).
- 703
Ok, but if I reach topspeed (290 km/h) in the 4th gear, then why should I shift to the 5th or even 6th gear? On Tsukuba for example it didn't even go further than 3rd gear. It hust doesn't feel right to only use half of the given gears. Would it theoretically be possible to change gearing, that you only need the 1st gear?
Maybe it would help, if the tuners would add a shifting point for the tune, most people drive manual.
Maybe it would help, if the tuners would add a shifting point for the tune, most people drive manual.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
You could theoretically gear the car in a way that you'd hit top speed in 1st gear, yes...
But you wouldn't want to. In any car you generally want to have 1st just barely spin the tires and then each shift after that drop RPM to just before peak power. It depends on the car's power curve how far below peak you want to drop to for optimum acceleration but you get my point. This car doesn't particularly like revs, with peak power occurring well before redline, but power falls off so gradually that running it to redline is not at all harmful to acceleration... A drop to just barely before peak power on each shift is ideal in this case (as a result you'll spend quite a lot of time in each gear).
As for not going further than 3rd... What difference does that have versus a tune that clocks its best times using 3rd through 5th? It's the same EXACT amount of shifting. Those that use 2nd shift one time more... Down the back straight only. It's the same number of gears used, just in different gears.
Same for Deep Forest; most will be using 2nd through 5th, possibly going into 6th if they geared the car very tight. The "odd" one will use 1st through 4th. High Speed Ring? 2nd-4th vs 3rd-5th/6th. It's really not particularly odd.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
Are any other tuners planning on submitting a Raybrig NSX Tune?
We currently only had 2 that were submitted prior to the 31st, I'm wondering if any of you are even planning on submitting by the 7th, or if we should just move on?
We currently only had 2 that were submitted prior to the 31st, I'm wondering if any of you are even planning on submitting by the 7th, or if we should just move on?
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Looks like a head to head battle to me?
Let us know. If not, I'd like to post my tune to my garage. Have people asking about it since my Nissan tune did so well.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
If other tuners don't express interest in submitting, I suppose I would cancel the NSX, and move forward with the New Vote of April, the McLaren. Award bonus points to the 2 shops that submitted, so they don't feel like they completely wasted their time.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
My tune is ready. I tuned for the "typical" track in the game. My tune should be fast at 90% of the tracks, o.k. for 5% of them and a lost puppy on the other 5%. Nothing over complicated. I now like the Raybrig NSX better than the Xanai Z and the Xanai GT-R. It's a really fun car, once you tame it a little.
