Tuning system is completely broken in GT7

[Pizzicato1985]

It’s not a zero effect on performance as the ratio is different, even if it allows 1mph more in top speed, as insignificant as it may seem, it is still a change in performance not zero.

I could agree with you though on the amount of PP it changes could be the issue but we don’t know how it’s been calculated or being tested in the background doesn’t mean it’s broken or unfair

0.3mph makes zero practical difference, especially given the context/race in which it is being discussed.

The transmission calculation is BROKEN. It's very easily possible to tune the exact same car with only one change: a top speed of 154.x on one, the other a top speed of 155, both at the same PP but the former is running a medium turbo with the Power Restrictor bumped down a click or two. Do you think that would even be close to a fair race, when the actual performance delta would put the car with the turbo in a different class in other games due to having 20% more horsepower and torque?

I love tuning in this series. Love racing tuned cars in daily's, so it is in the best interest of everyone that likes the tuning in GT for PP to be calculated properly to avoid the BoP/GT Sport crowd from screaming about how unfair PP races are. Notice that PD decided to set all the recent daily races to BoP; I don't think that was a coincidence. It either means they know there is a problem in PP calculation and are currently working on it, or are ignoring the problem and sweeping it under the rug by moving daily's and online events to BoP only. If it's the former, the players need to speak up to make sure they fix it, lest we have GT7 turn into GT Sport II.

 

[AlexWilmot]

0.3mph makes zero practical difference, especially given the context/race in which it is being discussed.

The transmission calculation is BROKEN. It's very easily possible to tune the exact same car with only one change: a top speed of 154.x on one, the other a top speed of 155, both at the same PP but the former is running a medium turbo with the Power Restrictor bumped down a click or two. Do you think that would even be close to a fair race, when the actual performance delta would put the car with the turbo in a different class in other games due to having 20% more horsepower and torque?

I love tuning in this series. Love racing tuned cars in daily's, so it is in the best interest of everyone that likes the tuning in GT for PP to be calculated properly to avoid the BoP/GT Sport crowd from screaming about how unfair PP races are. Notice that PD decided to set all the recent daily races to BoP; I don't think that was a coincidence. It either means they know there is a problem in PP calculation and are currently working on it, or are ignoring the problem and sweeping it under the rug by moving daily's and online events to BoP only. If it's the former, the players need to speak up to make sure they fix it, lest we have GT7 turn into GT Sport II.

I appreciate you are actually engaging in the discussion instead of just hurling flame bait, shouting fanboy etc.

the first bit I'm not sure as I even mentioned in my first post whether the PD calculation/measurement of this is correct I don't know, but how others are saying these setting changes shouldn't affect PP is where they're incorrect, So maybe some visibility from PD on the PP calculations is needed to help us all put this issue to rest.

On the BoP races, not sure I mean its too early to confirm or deny that, we knew that BoP was an option for the races before the "issues", I'd say its more of an assumption than confirmation, if the next weeks races all have BoP again then I'd say you'd be correct

 

[Kenneth Y]

Yes, the PP calculation is totally BROKEN. Here is one good example, see attached. By alternating the suspension geometry, the PP dropped significanly from 649 to 475 where my HP just dropped by 1HP. (see the left and right comparision), now I can go PP500 races with PP650 performance. I dont know how I did it but I just did it, you just need to mess around with the suspension geometry. I can assure you that this is not the only car in my garage that I found the loophole, you just needa mess around with the setting and it will happen somehow. This issue needs to be addressed to maintain a fair battle. I am happy to share more if you guys are interested. Apology for my broken English as its not my native.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Yes, the PP calculation is totally BROKEN. Here is one good example, see attached. By alternating the suspension geometry, the PP dropped significanly from 649 to 475 where my HP just dropped by 1HP. (see the left and right comparision), now I can go PP500 races with PP650 performance. I dont know how I did it but I just did it, you just need to mess around with the suspension geometry. I can assure you that this is not the only car in my garage that I found the loophole, you just needa mess around with the setting and it will happen somehow. This issue needs to be addressed to maintain a fair battle. I am happy to share more if you guys are interested. Apology for my broken English as its not my native.

Did you register now specifically for this comment?

If you would have bothered to read here even a little bit, you would have known where the "error" came from.
They don't even know why it's the way it is, but THEY say it's totally broken because they've only made minor changes.

I, on the other hand, see immediately what the reason for this is. The PP system is not totally broken, it just has a small crucial error. And again because you obviously haven't read it.

The PP evaluation uses various vehicle performance values to calculate, among other things, the possible G forces at speeds X if the car is changed so much that the G force value for 240 km/h goes to 0 or close to 0, then this has a massive impact on the PP value.

Now the programmers could simply remove the value for 240km/h from their calculations, but this would change ALL PP values for ALL vehicles significantly and all PP ratings for the races would have to be adjusted.

Or it is completely ignored and all players learn to live with it. BECAUSE a value of 0 or close to 0 at 240 km/h either means that the car does not reach 240 km/h AND/OR it is so unstable at 240 km/h that every small correction to the driving line leads to the car breaking out of control . While the former only plays a role on racetracks with high top speeds, the latter is usually dramatic much earlier.

What you can basically say, however, is that tuning can currently be carried out quite well in the game, even based on the PP number. Under certain circumstances, e.g. if the top speed of the car is definitely over 240km/h, then (attention not always but if you know what you are doing it's a good indicator) increasing PP values can definitely lead to a better setup.

 

[bduddy]

Yes, the PP calculation is totally BROKEN. Here is one good example, see attached. By alternating the suspension geometry, the PP dropped significanly from 649 to 475 where my HP just dropped by 1HP. (see the left and right comparision), now I can go PP500 races with PP650 performance. I dont know how I did it but I just did it, you just need to mess around with the suspension geometry. I can assure you that this is not the only car in my garage that I found the loophole, you just needa mess around with the setting and it will happen somehow. This issue needs to be addressed to maintain a fair battle. I am happy to share more if you guys are interested. Apology for my broken English as its not my native.

It looks like your 150mph G's dropped to near 0, presumably the car spun out in the test or something. But yes, anyone who's messed with the suspension tuning at all will find there are weird points where one of these values suddenly drops. Something is weird about how the simulated tests are done, it's like the AI driving the car makes no corrections or anything.

 

[Kenneth Y]

..

 

[Kenneth Y]

Did you register now specifically for this comment?

If you would have bothered to read here even a little bit, you would have known where the "error" came from.
They don't even know why it's the way it is, but THEY say it's totally broken because they've only made minor changes.

I, on the other hand, see immediately what the reason for this is. The PP system is not totally broken, it just has a small crucial error. And again because you obviously haven't read it.

The PP evaluation uses various vehicle performance values to calculate, among other things, the possible G forces at speeds X if the car is changed so much that the G force value for 240 km/h goes to 0 or close to 0, then this has a massive impact on the PP value.

Now the programmers could simply remove the value for 240km/h from their calculations, but this would change ALL PP values for ALL vehicles significantly and all PP ratings for the races would have to be adjusted.

Or it is completely ignored and all players learn to live with it. BECAUSE a value of 0 or close to 0 at 240 km/h either means that the car does not reach 240 km/h AND/OR it is so unstable at 240 km/h that every small correction to the driving line leads to the car breaking out of control . While the former only plays a role on racetracks with high top speeds, the latter is usually dramatic much earlier.

What you can basically say, however, is that tuning can currently be carried out quite well in the game, even based on the PP number. Under certain circumstances, e.g. if the top speed of the car is definitely over 240km/h, then (attention not always but if you know what you are doing it's a good indicator) increasing PP values can definitely lead to a better setup.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with what you've said. See the two screen caps below. Why would my PP raised from 478 to 659 if I just simply add 1 mm to the rear ride height if its speed related?

 

[xMAXIx79]

Again... look at the G Force at 150 mph!!!



Bottom left the last value 1.74 in one screenshot and 0.33 in the other image. Her G Force broke at this point.

That means your chassis is very unstable at this point, theoretically you may not notice that you may not be driving at that speed, but if you drive that speed and then have steering movements your vehicle will likely skid.

 

[Kenneth Y]

Again... look at the G Force at 150 mph!!!



Bottom left the last value 1.74 in one screenshot and 0.33 in the other image. Her G Force broke at this point.

That means your chassis is very unstable at this point, theoretically you may not notice that you may not be driving at that speed, but if you drive that speed and then have steering movements your vehicle will likely skid.

Fair enough and I am with you, but will that 1mm really makes that much difference in real world??
Well, maybe i shouldnt say the pp system is totally broken, but it definatley needs to be fine tuned. Just my 2 cents

 

[xMAXIx79]

Fair enough and I am with you, but will that 1mm really makes that much difference in real world??
Well, maybe i shouldnt say the pp system is totally broken, but it definatley needs to be fine tuned. Just my 2 cents

I'm totally with you and I'm a big advocate and fan of making it that much better.. I love data and I love "playing around" with it even more. And the more clear data I see the better mine is Feeling that you can work properly with it.

Whether these changes iRL play such a big role... I don't think so, but in the game it seems that way anyway, plus there is the very "aggressive" interpretation of the grip level of the rear axle. This makes tuning really not easy.

But I wish you AND everyone else that he finds the best setup for his car and can enjoy it.

 

[AyoxSavage]

I think this is a subject that needs all the visibility it can get

Harmonic does a great job on describing in the video below:




Basically you can cheat the "system" into using much more power and much less weight in PP restricted races,
just by altering settings in suspension, aero, gearbox etc

People also using Cronuszen to get away from tuning the scripts they running do everything I’ve seen guys on YouTube use scripts beat or auto drive the race for them

 

[Tenacious D]

Beats the carp and tuna out of me what the calculations are based on, and yeah, it's a bizarre system sometimes, but it has its uses.

I've been homologating (BOPing) a collection of cars, a few a day, for a fantasy WTC500 league. I'd like decals, badges, number boards and the whole kettle of fish done up for it, but it's easier right now to futz with cars. So I've been using the PP calculator to make tunes, and the tunes themselves are working amazingly well! I was pleasantly surprised. I was aiming for a PP around 550 - 575 or so for the center performance metric, as it's a WTC500 league and all. So I did up about ten cars so far, from the lowly Mazda Miata to a mighty Silvia S15, with bigger fish to come. I'm sensing a fish motif...

I managed to tune this school of trout to hurl around Deep Forest at roughly 1:45 or more, with none faster. The lap times for quite a variety of cars are within half a second, so mission accomplished. But naturally, the performance points are all over the map, from about 525 to 595, for roughly the same lap times on racing hards. So what's going on with the math, not a clue, but I use it because it's what we got. Maybe one of these updates, the thing will actually make more sense.

 

[Randy Winston]

It's almost as if bop is impossible to implement perfectly. Tuning is part of racing, full stop. Get used to it.

 

[MrMattAdz]

First of all, tuning system is fine, it's the PP system that has some issues.

Secondly, these small issues are only relevant on cars which aren't capable of hitting much more than 150mph in the first place on a track. This is relevant between maybe 500-650pp. Any lower than this and your car was probably never capable of reaching 150mph anyway. Any higher and you reach the level where cars are capable of achieving much higher than 150mph on the majority of tracks, so any performance you can eke out by running a top speed of 149mph is trumped by other car's top speed performance.

The reason why it's been highlighted already is because we had a Gr.4 race at Nürburgring GP where the conditions were perfect for getting an advantage by setting top speed at 149mph. All that's needed is a minor tweak to how PP is calculated and this issue will be resolved. I don't know if that will happen or not but I also don't think it's tremendously important if it doesn't, at the moment we aren't even getting PP daily races so it's all a bit moot right now.

I think there is an issue in that I don't think that differences in traction is being captured properly by the PP system. Straight line speed is measured but I don't think there is a measure of traction while turning round a corner which is obviously really important when trying to accelerate out of low speed corners. As a result 4WD cars have quite an advantage right now over cars that have a similar PP rating.

The issue above where one mm of ride height produces an odd result, this is because that in the super specific scenario that the PP system simulates, your car for whatever reason has massive understeer is unable to turn properly. It's a bug that is incredibly difficult to replicate and I challenge anyone to be able to repeat this issue with a different car. I bet if you changed anything else about that car, 1% increase in power, 1 increase to downforce, the Rotational G. would return to a normal value.

 

[unfairlane]

!: The tuning section in Gt7 is wery simplified and lacks some wery basic options.

2: The tyre-physics are way off.

3: Some of PP`s pre-tuned setups are hardly driveable, even some pre-tuned racers:

 

[Veinz]

PP doesn’t seem to be affected by torque when detuning. The one thing I really dislike is how the tires affect it, those should be a separate thing imo.

 

[Marty_Debiru]

PP should be based on hardware parts only, not on settings.

In the video above you can clearly see how just by making the car having a shorter top speed, he could add a lot of HP and remove a lot of weight, resulting in lap times of one category up.
Not making the car "handle like ****" at all. just exploiting a broken system

So if you limit your gearbox top speed to 120 km/h, that isn't downgrading your car no matter how much power you have?

If you play with setup you will see how your PP goes up and down depending on what you doing, in both ways btw.

 

[MrMattAdz]

PP doesn’t seem to be affected by torque when detuning.

How this even possible to measure? There's no way to only reduce torque without reducing power. Or vice versa.

 

[mrPetros]

So if you limit your gearbox top speed to 120 km/h, that isn't downgrading your car no matter how much power you have?

If you play with setup you will see how your PP goes up and down depending on what you doing, in both ways btw.

I can understand that many people would be happy no matter how broken the system is.
That doesn't mean that the rest will have respond to attempts of rationalizing the system faults.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

I figured out how to get the Chaparral 2J to 438 pp with max horsepower and minimum weight and now it's the most overpowered car in the game.

 

[xMAXIx79]

I figured out how to get the Chaparral 2J to 438 pp with max horsepower and minimum weight and now it's the most overpowered car in the game.

Well.. to be fair, he's only drivable by the assistants, to be fair. You can see how often the countersteering assistant has to intervene to keep the car on track. But yes, with the help of the assistants, it is conceivable to simply make a car faster and win more than it would be possible without these helpers.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

Well.. to be fair, he's only drivable by the assistants, to be fair. You can see how often the countersteering assistant has to intervene to keep the car on track. But yes, with the help of the assistants, it is conceivable to simply make a car faster and win more than it would be possible without these helpers.

I haven't tried it without the assists. It would probably be slower but still wipe vacuum the floor with anything under 450 pp.

 

[mrPetros]

 

[AlexWilmot]

.

 

[AlexWilmot]

and? your point is?

You're reading the measurement incorrectly, the lower the number at the specified 3 speeds shown as a calculation indicates that there is less G taking effect on the car, the increased Grip from increasing the Negative Camber means taking corners at 40mph is easier, that's why the G has decreased and the PP increased.

Just because the measurement of G has increased in value doesn't mean the performance is going to increase

 

[xMAXIx79]

and? your point is?

You're reading the measurement incorrectly, the lower the number at the specified 3 speeds shown as a calculation indicates that there is less G taking effect on the car, the increased Grip from increasing the Negative Camber means taking corners at 40mph is easier, that's why the G has decreased and the PP increased.

Just because the measurement of G has increased in value doesn't mean the performance is going to increase

And after my tests I suspect that only one G value is displayed for both axes and that is the higher one. And not, as expected, the G value for the vehicle. If this is really the case (based on some tests) then this explains some of the extreme behavior, although the numbers are pretty good.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

170 pp F1 car tune and lap.

Later is the same tune with Racing Soft tires at 335 pp.

 

[meekrab]

It's a silly system, go into a rainy race with Intermediate tires and then it dries up? Sorry, you can't use Hard tires, enjoy losing.

 

[xMAXIx79]

It's a silly system, go into a rainy race with Intermediate tires and then it dries up? Sorry, you can't use Hard tires, enjoy losing.

Why is the system broken? Before a PP race you will be informed which tires are still possible with your current PP value and since racing tires increase your PP significantly compared to IM tires, this is completely logical. Before a race you can tune your car with built-in racing tires to the maximum PP value and then switch to IM tires.. that's it.

So please think before you complain...

 

[NickGuy]

i think pp system is goofy. the tomahawk exploit on tokyo expway proves it.

either remove gear tuning effecting pp or make it so cars are restricted by hp instead