Turkey Dropped Next Season?
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- 65 comments
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- 564
- new mexico
- fissionproject
that was a very cool video indeed!
super sad to see Turkey go though, if it's true. Definitely one of my favorite tracks due to tricky corners and overall flow
super sad to see Turkey go though, if it's true. Definitely one of my favorite tracks due to tricky corners and overall flow
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The idea behind having a Turkish Grand Prix was not to have a circuit somewhere that racing was not popular, but to have a circuit where racing could become popular, and use the circuit to trigger that interest. It's something of a Catch-22; people say you cannot have a Grand Prix in a country without a "racing heritage" (my least-favourite term in the world), but how can you have a "racing heritage" without any racing to begin with? Sure, it might develop on its own, but with no clear objective for it - like, say, international representation in a Grand Prix - it's unlikely to.
Accelerating the evolution of racing by staging a Grand Prix is something of a black art. It fails more often than it succeeds, and when it does succeed, the success is unpredictable. Take China, for instance - crowd numbers have been steadily growing. The 2011 race saw the largest crowd in Shanghai since the event's inception, thanks largely to a new pricing policy, and with the help of the new regulations and the race they produced, I think the Chinese Grand Prix is going to become even more popular. So much so that I would not be suprised if we saw some Chinese investment in a team (like Hispania) and Ho-Pin Tung called up for 2012.
On the other hand, you also have the Middle East, where motorsports has been steadily pushed along. You've got the Jordan Rally and next year's Rally Abu Dhabi on the world stage, plus a regional championship and touring cars to go with Sakhir and Yas Marina. Motorsport has evolved there, just in a different way to China. Evidently, the project in Turkey has not been as great a success as it was before.
Although don't discount them entirely. The contract states that they have to pay $26 million, double their current fee. The government won't put that much towards the race - but there's nothing to say they won't front up $13 million if the organisers could find another source of funding ... like Petrol Olfisi, for instance. They'd be paying about the same amount for title sponsorship of the event.
Accelerating the evolution of racing by staging a Grand Prix is something of a black art. It fails more often than it succeeds, and when it does succeed, the success is unpredictable. Take China, for instance - crowd numbers have been steadily growing. The 2011 race saw the largest crowd in Shanghai since the event's inception, thanks largely to a new pricing policy, and with the help of the new regulations and the race they produced, I think the Chinese Grand Prix is going to become even more popular. So much so that I would not be suprised if we saw some Chinese investment in a team (like Hispania) and Ho-Pin Tung called up for 2012.
On the other hand, you also have the Middle East, where motorsports has been steadily pushed along. You've got the Jordan Rally and next year's Rally Abu Dhabi on the world stage, plus a regional championship and touring cars to go with Sakhir and Yas Marina. Motorsport has evolved there, just in a different way to China. Evidently, the project in Turkey has not been as great a success as it was before.
Although don't discount them entirely. The contract states that they have to pay $26 million, double their current fee. The government won't put that much towards the race - but there's nothing to say they won't front up $13 million if the organisers could find another source of funding ... like Petrol Olfisi, for instance. They'd be paying about the same amount for title sponsorship of the event.
- 4,497
- Vancouver, BC
Like I said, it is good that they are trying to stage races in new regions with no previous exposure to motorsport. The Chinese GP has been an unprecedented success, along with Malaysia. My point is that it won't work every time. No need to abandon core fan bases and markets just to have a gamble somewhere we are unsure about.
I really love Istanbul Park! It's such a good track,great views,amazing show! It'll be a shame if it drop out of the calendar.
I also have a question : does anyone know how to get to the start/final line after the race in Sunday.My seat is on bronze tribune at corners 3-4 so it's kinda close to the start\final line. Thanks in advance
I also have a question : does anyone know how to get to the start/final line after the race in Sunday.My seat is on bronze tribune at corners 3-4 so it's kinda close to the start\final line. Thanks in advance
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
The idea of the Turkish Grand Prix was simple; hey Berne, we'll pay double what everyone else pays for a race!
The reason F1 goes to a country is because its willing to pay. The fact that Turkey is a new market and in a different region are bonuses. Why Bernie does it is for money - because they will pay more than the other venues and because its a new market. Why Turkey does it is because it puts them on the world stage and promotes tourism to the country.
Its got nothing to do with helping grow motorsport, I doubt Bernie really feels gutted that Turkey didn't grow in the area of motorsport, he's found some new places to replace it.
If they really wanted to grow motorsport in places like Turkey, it would be more ideal to help local drivers progress up the ladder and help the local race meetings grow. Simply hosting an F1 event is never going to magically make a country interested, the Spanish GP is the greatest example of that.
Same goes for why we aren't going to France anymore - no one was willing to pay up, so it gets axed. Pretty simple really. A shame for France but not really for anyone else, Magny-Cours was dull as dish-water and Paul Ricard is really no better (though I do enjoy both in video games). There are no other suitable tracks in France for a GP without building a new one. I don't really miss the French GP.
- 377
- FullSpe3d98
Its definetely one of Tilke's better tracks, if not his best one yet. But somehow I never grew to love that track. I've done lots of laps on it in RFactor, but I never really thought it was that good a track. For example I couldn't get myself to stop driving on Montreal or Monaco.
I'm not really gonna miss it.
I'm not really gonna miss it.
- 1,230
This is the first time I've been excited about turkey droppings...
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 2,183
- Houston, TX
- Rosstickles
As far as motorsport in France goes, they're lucky they have a track as legendary as La Sarthe. I still like Paul Ricard HTTT though.
I will really miss F1 going through turn 8 though. Hopefully the circuit will still see action. When MotoGP visited it made for a good track and racing.
I will really miss F1 going through turn 8 though. Hopefully the circuit will still see action. When MotoGP visited it made for a good track and racing.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The Circuit of the Americas has something similar to it. Turns 16, 17 and 18, I believe. It's not taken flat out the way Faux Rouge it, but according to Tavo Hellmund, they tried to make it a little bit harder - it's downhill, off-camber, and unusually enough, it gets both tighter and faster as it goes. And it was deliberately designed with the smallest amount of run-off that they could possibly get away with (though Hellmund says that if he had his way, there would be no run-off at all). It's going to be a difficult and unstable sequence of corners, made all the moreso by the preceding corners that will force drivers to run a less-than-optimal setup through it.
- 675
- Leeds, W. Yorks
- TopGearFTW
I was never really a fan of Turkey, I mean, it is one of the better new tracks, but I never found the races that exciting (apart from last year's McLaren 1-2, on a personal note >__>)
I know which races are in the calendar these days are decided purely on what money they can bring to the table, except Monaco, but I just wish some of these new tracks would be on the same level as tracks like Spa, or Hockenheim (pre-edit) or even A1-Ring. All the new tracks that aren't street circuits are basically the same.
I know which races are in the calendar these days are decided purely on what money they can bring to the table, except Monaco, but I just wish some of these new tracks would be on the same level as tracks like Spa, or Hockenheim (pre-edit) or even A1-Ring. All the new tracks that aren't street circuits are basically the same.
With a population over a billion, 100,000 in attendance can be considered a disappointment in other societies. I am certain China will be on the schedule as long as the Chinese Government feels it is needed. Would not surprise me if it is later discovered that not only the Government paid the fees for the event but also paid for and distributed the tickets ordering people to attend.
- 12,513
- Ireland
- The__Luke
Paul Ricard is pretty disappointing. If it was 5 miles down the road it would be as mountainous as the Nurburgring.
I was at the Okay Corall(something like that) theme park 4 km away from the track. They can't seem to find level ground for the theme park but they found some for the track. I was aware that the track wa flat beforehand but the mountains a couple of kilometers away from it just dissapointed me. Good enough track still but I don't think F1 would be good on it, the straight is to long. The blue and red things are interesting though.
- 2,183
- Houston, TX
- Rosstickles
You know what those red and blue things are right? The blue area is pretty much a prototype run off area meant to slow cars. The red is more abrasive and nearly shreds the tires.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I don't really see what you see in Paul Ricard, its a plain flat track with pretty featureless surroundings. Its also terrible for spectators as the run-off is so big nowadays due to its test-circuit background.
The layout is meh too, its not really challenging on the driver, more on the machine.
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the track in video games, as its quite interesting to drive/race due to the multiple racing lines and its high speed. But thats different to reality, some of the lines and overtakes I make in games just wouldn't happen.
I recall Brundle saying he never really liked testing there, he only really liked ragging the coastal road nearby.
The French deserve a much better circuit than Paul Ricard or Magny-Cours...they used to have legendary tracks like Rouen-Les-Essarts.
The layout is meh too, its not really challenging on the driver, more on the machine.
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the track in video games, as its quite interesting to drive/race due to the multiple racing lines and its high speed. But thats different to reality, some of the lines and overtakes I make in games just wouldn't happen.
I recall Brundle saying he never really liked testing there, he only really liked ragging the coastal road nearby.
The French deserve a much better circuit than Paul Ricard or Magny-Cours...they used to have legendary tracks like Rouen-Les-Essarts.
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- 1,600
- ON, Canada
- AMCNUT
- AMCNUT
Well, Istanbul never really stuck a chord with me, but I'm just glad that the Canadian Grand Prix is no longer threatened as of now!
But it's not the circuits in F1 so much as the competition itself.. the cars are so technologically advanced that the racing is almost secondary I find. The action, I find, usually ceases after the first few corners - I personally like close, wheel-to-wheel racing. I used to follow F1 really closely but M. Schumacher winning everything in sight really turned me off of it. I'd like to go back to the late '90s for F1 - that was a good time both in terms of the tracks and the teams!
But it's not the circuits in F1 so much as the competition itself.. the cars are so technologically advanced that the racing is almost secondary I find. The action, I find, usually ceases after the first few corners - I personally like close, wheel-to-wheel racing. I used to follow F1 really closely but M. Schumacher winning everything in sight really turned me off of it. I'd like to go back to the late '90s for F1 - that was a good time both in terms of the tracks and the teams!
- 4,497
- Vancouver, BC
Reims and Clermont-Ferrand were good too. In fact Reims was the place to go to if you wanted to see overtaking in the old days. The locals even approved of cutting down trees to turn it into it's much faster 50s layout. A far cry from the situation most tracks (like Spa, with noise complaints) are in today.
I think a reborn Reims or Rouen would be much better than building a brand new track. To be perfectly clear, I also think Magny-Cours and Paul Ricard are unsuitable/boring.
Reims could be fixed with a couple chicanes before the hairpins and you'd have a French Monza with just as much atmosphere, and French countryside to go with it. Not to mention building new grandstands (without destroying the old ones, put the finish line elsewhere) and the usual facility stuff, but would be a pretty inspired track choice. Problem is that it is public road, but Reims has historically been public roads converted to racetrack and back again anyway.
Rouen would have to be widened and slowed down also. I can't remember but I think it was shut down because of the locals. Might be difficult to bring back to life. Still was an awesome circuit.
Clermont-Ferrand I'm not sure about. I seem to recall it was abandoned after someone got hit by a loose piece of asphalt due to the circuit resting on an old volcano. That would be an inspired choice of track to modern-ise and race also.
Normally I wouldn't like the idea of "butchering" these old tracks and using them again, but they are dead tracks, so it makes no difference. It wouldn't be like butchering Laguna Seca, for example. They still would have plenty of character though.
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- 4,579
- Houston, TX
- astrosdude91
Maybe they'll bring back the Austrian GP now that the A-1 Ring has been reborn as the Red Bull Ring. Such a beautiful track that.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Dietrich Mateschitz has said that the circuit will not host Formula 1. It's unlikely the race would go there anyway, since it was discontinued when drivers were threatening to doa lap in under a minute. Besides, with Turkey, there are 20 races on the calendar. Austin makes it 21. If Turkey is discontinued, Austin will keep the number stable at 20.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Suzuka wasn't affected by the Sendai earthquake and tsunami. If the event can happen without government support, I see no reason why it cannot happen at all. It might cost tens of millions of dollars to cost a Grand Prix, but it should be mentioned that governments have budgets in the billions of dollars to work with. If not trillions. The amount spent on a Grand Prix is just a fraction of their budget. And, on a certain level, bringing sports events into the country might not be such a bad thing. The sport injects money into the local area (which is where it will be needed the most), and with the following it has, it could well be a welcome distraction to the state of the country. Sometimes, people need things to take their minds off what has happened. It's not ignoring the problem, it's giving people the chance to forget their pain and suffering, even if it's only for a few hours.
Besides, even if Turkey, Bahrain and Japan are all dropped from the calendar - hell, if you took every last race off - it still doesn't change the fact that Mateschitz has said the Red Bull Ring will not host a round of the World Championship. He's not prepared to invest in it.
Besides, even if Turkey, Bahrain and Japan are all dropped from the calendar - hell, if you took every last race off - it still doesn't change the fact that Mateschitz has said the Red Bull Ring will not host a round of the World Championship. He's not prepared to invest in it.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Suzuka is funded by Honda and tickets are bought by fans. If no one buys tickets, the GP can't go ahead. Honda (and many other Japanese companies) are running very limited production due to the shortage of power in the country, it would be hardly surprising if they dropped out of running the GP. Toyota pulled out of running Fuji for GP on odd-years in much less of a situation than this!
The Japanese government doesn't pay a penny to hold the GP as far as I know, quite obviously they won't be paying anything now!
You have to be pretty ignorant to assume that because a government has trillions of dollars to spend, they can get away throwing a few million on an event like this...when they have very important economic recovery and rebuilding to do.
I would be very surprised if the Japanese GP isn't affected in some way.
I don't care about the Austrian GP, I was just pointing out that you are assuming two GPs are actually going to run.
The Japanese government doesn't pay a penny to hold the GP as far as I know, quite obviously they won't be paying anything now!
You have to be pretty ignorant to assume that because a government has trillions of dollars to spend, they can get away throwing a few million on an event like this...when they have very important economic recovery and rebuilding to do.
I would be very surprised if the Japanese GP isn't affected in some way.
I don't care about the Austrian GP, I was just pointing out that you are assuming two GPs are actually going to run.
- 6,331
- Banbury, UK
- Uberbee
He's right to assume the Japanese GP is going ahead though, we haven't heard anything to suggest otherwise, I'd have thought we would've by now.
Gotta remember Russia is on the horizon aswell, as much as Turkey will be missed from a driving challenge point of view, there's plenty in line waiting.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I'm not being ignorant - I'm just pointing out that one of the primary arguments against these races is that it costs so much to the point where the government needs to invest in the race. But the costs associated are just a fraction of the money they have at their disposal. This applies to Turkey just as much as Japan.
