Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix 2021Formula 1

[Groundfish]

Hamilton absolutely should have backed down

Yes, finally a kernel of truth!

Also, Hamilton did hold his line

Lol

Now, if you can produce footage of Hamilton giving leftward steering input on his onboard camera, then you might have a point.

Lewis was under steering, not over steering. He was going way way too fast to make the corner or leave room on exit to run side by side.

If you go by drivers, I believe (if I counted them right) it's 13 for Lewis, 12 for Racing Incident

I’m sure the current drivers are going to be quick to throw Hamilton under the bus 🙄

He caused Max to have a hard impact for sure, but Max was able to move under his own power and immediately replied to the radio. He also had no major injuries reported after visiting the hospital.

So to you, the fact Max wasn’t seriously physically injured makes it ok?
Lots of folks here keep posting well Max wasn’t badly hurt-so what?!
That result doesn’t make Hamilton’s mistake any better.

, Max tried to close the door on Hamilton

No, he knew only a fool wouldn’t back out of that lunge.
If Lewis had slowed enough and held inside and not hit Max then what?
Max gets the better exit and is still ahead since Hamilton’s line was so compromised.
That’s why it was so poor of Ham to go next to the inside wall. Even if he did succeed in getting alongside he was never going to have enough speed to make the overtake on that line.
That’s why it was such a stupid decision by him.

 

[Roo]

There's a question I heard posed on a podcast that I haven't seen addressed so far in this thread (although I've skipped a lot of the blind fanboy rubbish spouted by a few individuals from both sides of the fence so might've missed it in the dross) which was:

If he wants to win the championship, why was Verstappen fighting Hamilton so hard on the first lap?

Coming into the weekend, Max had a 33 point lead - over an event in hand - and was driving the fastest car in the field, as evidenced by the heat race Sprint the previous day. Had Lewis got past on the first lap, Max could've just sat on the Mercedes' gearbox until the pitstops rolled around, with 2 opportunities to under/overcut. Even if he didn't make it past and Lewis won, worst case scenario is he would've lost 7 points, and left Silverstone with a 26 point lead, enough to guarantee leading the championship through the summer break. Instead he got aggressive and ended up in the wall.

Note this isn't a commentary on the incident itself, but a question of why Max put himself in a position for a collision to be a possibility, regardless of who was at fault. You don't need to win every race to become champion, and by trying to do so Max has thrown away the nigh-on certainty of leading the championship come Spa.

 

[Rossell2]

Basically he repeated the mentality that got him tangled with Ocon and out of the Brazilian grand prix.

 

[Veinz]

You don’t see it addressed because it’s a dumb question.

 

[Samus]

There's a question I heard posed on a podcast that I haven't seen addressed so far in this thread (although I've skipped a lot of the blind fanboy rubbish spouted by a few individuals from both sides of the fence so might've missed it in the dross) which was:

If he wants to win the championship, why was Verstappen fighting Hamilton so hard on the first lap?

Coming into the weekend, Max had a 33 point lead - over an event in hand - and was driving the fastest car in the field, as evidenced by the heat race Sprint the previous day. Had Lewis got past on the first lap, Max could've just sat on the Mercedes' gearbox until the pitstops rolled around, with 2 opportunities to under/overcut. Even if he didn't make it past and Lewis won, worst case scenario is he would've lost 7 points, and left Silverstone with a 26 point lead, enough to guarantee leading the championship through the summer break. Instead he got aggressive and ended up in the wall.

Note this isn't a commentary on the incident itself, but a question of why Max put himself in a position for a collision to be a possibility, regardless of who was at fault. You don't need to win every race to become champion, and by trying to do so Max has thrown away the nigh-on certainty of leading the championship come Spa.

As @Famine has speculated it may be because he was expecting HAM to do the yielding as he always had, up to this point. The pair could have clashed on numerous occasions before now but didn't because HAM always got out of it. Spain L1 T1 for instance. He even made comments to the press admitting he'd backed out of situations purposely to maximise points, 2nd better than DNF etc. Something I'm sure didn't escape VERs attention.

That's why some people are now painting this move as HAM getting desperate whilst others see it as HAM finally deciding to stop being the one to yield to avoid tangling. Neither yielded, and the inevitable crash happened.

Hindsight is obviously a wonderful thing and I'm sure Max now knows it would have been best to yield (even though yes, he absolutely didn't have to). But he does now have the knowledge that HAM won't always be the one to yield going forward.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Wow, are people still bickering over this a week later?

Racing incident as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, Max had superior pace for the entire weekend, re-taking P1 was inevitable. I don't blame either driver, just get over it already.

 

[McLaren]

I’m sure the current drivers are going to be quick to throw Hamilton under the bus 🙄

That's hilarious. Proof you didn't read the information at all.

Edit* Removing Daniel, Charles, & Alonso, drivers' opinions fall to: Lewis 12, Racing Incident 10, Max 1. Add in the non-drivers (which we must because you cited Driver61/Mansell as a credible opinion): Lewis 13, Incident 16, Max 2.


But, try to move that goal post again.

 

[NotThePrez]

There's a question I heard posed on a podcast that I haven't seen addressed so far in this thread (although I've skipped a lot of the blind fanboy rubbish spouted by a few individuals from both sides of the fence so might've missed it in the dross) which was:

If he wants to win the championship, why was Verstappen fighting Hamilton so hard on the first lap?

Coming into the weekend, Max had a 33 point lead - over an event in hand - and was driving the fastest car in the field, as evidenced by the heat race Sprint the previous day. Had Lewis got past on the first lap, Max could've just sat on the Mercedes' gearbox until the pitstops rolled around, with 2 opportunities to under/overcut. Even if he didn't make it past and Lewis won, worst case scenario is he would've lost 7 points, and left Silverstone with a 26 point lead, enough to guarantee leading the championship through the summer break. Instead he got aggressive and ended up in the wall.

Note this isn't a commentary on the incident itself, but a question of why Max put himself in a position for a collision to be a possibility, regardless of who was at fault. You don't need to win every race to become champion, and by trying to do so Max has thrown away the nigh-on certainty of leading the championship come Spa.

I personally think Max just got a tad impatient and was attempting to get in front of the Mercs and secure his lead as quickly as possible. I think it's a pretty open secret this this is Max’s best chance to win, since he seems to actually have the fastest car (albiet by a fairly small margin) and he realistically can beat the Mercedes on a consistent basis. As such, he does everything he can to cement an early lead so that Mercedes can't answer back with raw pace. I've noticed that it seems Mercedes are relying on strategy calls rather than just race pace in order to keep up with the Red Bulls as well.

With this, Max used the same aggressive tactics that he's always known for, and expected Hamilton to yeild, and was surprised to see that he didn't. That's partly why I've been critical of Max not using the road surface he had to his left. As you said, even if he did lose the position in order to give Hamilton room, he still had enough pace to stay with Hamilton and pass later on.

I'm hoping this has sent a message to Max and RBR that, even though they have the fastest car, Mercedes aren't going to just bend over and hand it to them. I still think Lewis is the favorite to win the title, but this makes the championship much more exciting imo.

 

[Dreadmed]

Wow, are people still bickering over this a week later?

Racing incident as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, Max had superior pace for the entire weekend, re-taking P1 was inevitable. I don't blame either driver, just get over it already.

They'll still be people bickering about this in years to come if Max ends up losing the championship by <25 points.

 

[kungtotte_]

They'll still be people bickering about this in years to come if Max ends up losing the championship by <25 points.

There's the sprint race points throwing a spanner in the works as well. If the margins are small enough to be covered by the sprint points people will endlessly argue that whomever should have been the champ if not for the sprints and that they have no real place in F1.

 

[ThePotatoKing]

There's the sprint race points throwing a spanner in the works as well. If the margins are small enough to be covered by the sprint points people will endlessly argue that whomever should have been the champ if not for the sprints and that they have no real place in F1.

To be honest i find the idea of giving points in the Sprint Race kinda dumb, since its purpose is to simply determine the grid for Sunday's race.

 

[Famine]

Anyone posted this yet?

Yes but it's completely different because Max didn't try to kill Stroll and it's not the exact same corner and Max wasn't missing the apex and fIfTyOnEg and so on and so forth...

That one above (absent the very strange helium voices, I suspect to avoid YT detection as copyright content - which failed!) is yet another example of Verstappen's extremely aggressive driving style. It has worked for him very well in the past, right up until the point it hasn't (and the FIA once introduced a rule named after him, now replaced by a more wide-ranging one), and it doesn't exactly take long to drag out the examples of where it hasn't. And then we've got him slinging it up the inside and getting away with it (due to the driver on the outside having better awareness) in Spain 2021, Imola 2021, Bahrain 2020...

That's hilarious. Proof you didn't read the information at all.

Edit* Removing Daniel, Charles, & Alonso, drivers' opinions fall to: Lewis 12, Racing Incident 10, Max 1. Add in the non-drivers (which we must because you cited Driver61/Mansell as a credible opinion): Lewis 13, Incident 16, Max 2.


But, try to move that goal post again.

What happens if you include Honda Racing's F1 managing director Masashi Yamamoto? I know he's already on the list but it's well worth flagging it a bit louder

That's going to be an awkward one come the apparent court case...

 

[NotThePrez]

^I completely forgot that Horner is threatening to bring Lewis(?) to court over the incident. That is a new level of pettiness that I didn't think could be achieved in F1.

 

[McLaren]

^I completely forgot that Horner is threatening to bring Lewis(?) to court over the incident. That is a new level of pettiness that I didn't think could be achieved in F1.

It really comes across that way. Max turned out okay, so now the anger is over the cost of the car rebuild. I think one would assume challenging a court case to have Lewis/Merc. held accountable would involve Max, not the car.

 

[ScottPuss20]

^I completely forgot that Horner is threatening to bring Lewis(?) to court over the incident. That is a new level of pettiness that I didn't think could be achieved in F1.

Red Bull asking a judge to bail out Verstappen for an incident that he inadvertently caused is pathetic. Verstappen needs to outsmart his opposition if he's going to win this championship. I fear Hamilton has him cornered at the moment and if Verstappen doesn't take a step back and think about the bigger picture, he'll lose it. Don't get carried away Max, there's a long way to go.

 

[kungtotte_]

I don't think Max is behind any of this ********.

I think it's very much driven by Horner & Helmut, with Jos backing them up.

 

[kilesa4568]

Rosberg calling it a racing incident too:

 

[Liquid]

I'm going to be honest, I was iffy on Red Bull after all the driver swapping crap, but this has made me go off them big time. Only really there for Checo now.

Pertinent section bolded and underlined. So... five years after Verstappen was promoted to Red Bull, you have a problem with it?

 

[Rossell2]

No I meant more recently with Gasly, Albon etc...Verstappen/Kvyat I thought was an isolated incident at the time based on Kvyats tendency to crash into people. Last couple of years is when it went into overdrive.

 

[ShiftingGears]

He did it

 

[DG_Silva]

He did it

Who did?

 

[Daz555]

F1 is finished if judges start being brought in to settle matters.

 

[TheCracker]

He did it

Interesting to see it like this. It pretty much shows that a collision was always going to happen unless Hamilton backed off. Hamilton did run wide and was never going to make the appex. But also the GIF/vid shows that Max was aiming his car at the appex whether Lewis was there or not.

I get the feeling that Christian Horner is suffering from middle management pressure. He's there to lead the team, to be the figurehead, but it feels like some of decisions he makes (talk of taking Lewis to court over the incident) or statements he gives in post-race interviews are pretty much orders from either Marko or Mateschitz to the line which the team is going to take on the matter. He often doesn't look entirely comfortable in what he's saying. I know all the manufacturer's team principles suffer from this to an extent, with pressure from the boardroom, but with Redbull i often get the impression that Horner is seemingly used as a messenger boy.

 

[Samus]

Red Bull have lodged a petition for review and so they're all going to meet via video call on Thursday. One would hope that this draws a line under it all, but somehow I doubt it. No idea what Red Bull even expect out of it.

 

[Famine]

Red Bull have lodged a petition for review and so they're all going to meet via video call on Thursday. One would hope that this draws a line under it all, but somehow I doubt it. No idea what Red Bull even expect out of it.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Red Bull have lodged a petition for review and so they're all going to meet via video call on Thursday. One would hope that this draws a line under it all, but somehow I doubt it. No idea what Red Bull even expect out of it.

I saw an interesting theory on this. I don't wanna steal this person's take so I'll just copy and paste the whole thing:

"I’m going to guess this goes deeper then just the crash. I’m thinking RBR had a bunch of updates on Max’s car that they only had one of, and the accident probably destroyed everything. My guess is that it will cost them a lot of money to replace those parts and it’s p****** them off cause it will be hard to get the car back into that working window it was in, just a guess, but we will see this weekend"

Red Bull request official review of Silverstone crash | Planet F1

Red Bull have pressed on with their threat to seek further action against Lewis Hamilton for his Silverstone collision with Max Verstappen.

www.planetf1.com

It's the only reason I would think they're dragging this on. It also makes those 'desperate' comments seem a little ironic.

 

[OJBrit]

Red Bull have lodged a petition for review and so they're all going to meet via video call on Thursday. One would hope that this draws a line under it all, but somehow I doubt it. No idea what Red Bull even expect out of it.

New heights of pathetic.
It's not as if Hamilton wasn't punished.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I remember Christian Horner stating that they had evidence that Lewis Hamilton was 15kph faster at the apex of Copse on that lap than on any other lap across the entire weekend. Whilst it may be new evidence, I find it very unlikely that it will change the result. If Hamilton had got away with no penalty, then it would make for a case to prove he was the guilty party. But he got a penalty, and Red Bull are just pushing to make it a larger one... And I'm not sure on what grounds they can base that at all.

There is a large part of me that hopes that the new evidence is a collection of tweets / forum comments that have been circulating for the last 2 weeks! In fact if this comment is being read aloud in the meeting, good afternoon to you all! 😅

 

[Famine]

I remember Christian Horner stating that they had evidence that Lewis Hamilton was 15kph faster at the apex of Copse on that lap than on any other lap across the entire weekend.

I thought he didn't make the apex though

But also, no surprise. He got a tow from Verstappen out of Luffield and through Woodcote, and almost certainly opened the taps on the ERS.

Meanwhile Verstappen was also faster turning into Copse than at any point at the weekend including his qualifying lap, while being nine feet (Edit: actually it's nearer seven feet) from the outside edge of the track.

 

[Moglet]

Red Bull on Saturday: "[Max] is determined to put this incident behind him and use it as added motivation for the rest of the season, as are we"

Red Bull today: lol jk