Viper Zero
HMMWVs don't have armor because it defeats the purpose of them. HMMWV stands for High Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle. They were never designed with armor and never meant to be used in direct combat. The HMMWV is a modern day Jeep. This is exactly why the Army has the Stryker armored vehicle, so they don't use the HMMWV in direct combat.
Since the HMMWV was never designed to take a direct hit, especially from a IED, the Army improvised and "up-armored" the HMMWVs with armor plating, bullet proof Plexiglas, and metal bars around the cabin windows to protect against RPGs.
More than 80% of HMMWVs in Iraq are the up-armored variant.
I know Humvees are not designed to be able to take heavy punishment, or be able to survive direct hits from an anti tank missile (Like an APC or an MBT for example), but they should be able to at least protect the lives of the occupants from the majority of IEDs (Keep in mind IED is a very general term applied to a type of explosive that could vary greatly in power). One of the original design points of the Humvee is that it was supposed to protect the lives of the occupants from smaller explosives such as land mines. And now that the insurgents are using more powerful bombs, shouldn't the government try to protect it's troops as best as they can? I'm not saying that Humvees should be able to survive a direct hit from an RPG, because that is just assinine. I'm just saying the government should be trying harder to protect the lives of their men and women in uniform.
Humvees are not supposed to be engaged in direct combat. That is true. But keep in mind the US is fighting against an enemy that chooses when and where combat occurs, so everything is vulnerable.
And finally, 1 out of every 5 humvees not having enough armour may seem like an acceptable figure to some, but it certainly isn't an acceptable figure to anyone who has to ride in one through potentially hostile territory.
Viper Zero
Did you know a reporter fed the question to that soldier who asked Rumsfeld about the up armored HMMWVs? Mr. Pitts later apologized for his actions... a little too late.
From: EDWARD LEE PITTS, MILITARY AFFAIRS
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2004 4:44 PM
To: Staffers
Subject: RE: Way to go
I just had one of my best days as a journalist today. As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. I was told yesterday that only soldiers could ask questions so I brought two of them along with me as my escorts. Before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have. While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd.
So during the Q&A session, one of my guys was the second person called on. When he asked Rumsfeld why after two years here soldiers are still having to dig through trash bins to find rusted scrap metal and cracked ballistic windows for their Humvees, the place erupted in cheers so loud that Rumsfeld had to ask the guy to repeat his question. Then Rumsfeld answered something about it being not a lack of desire or money but a logistics/physics problem. He said he recently saw about 8 of the special up-armored Humvees guarding Washington, DC, and he promised that they would no longer be used for that and that he would send them over here. Then he asked a three star general standing behind him, the commander of all ground forces here, to also answer the question. The general said it was a problem he is working on.
The great part was that after the event was over the throng of national media following Rumsfeld- The New York Times, AP, all the major networks swarmed to the two soldiers I brought from the unit I am embedded with. Out of the 1,000 or so troops at the event there were only a handful of guys from my unit b/c the rest were too busy prepping for our trip north. The national media asked if they were the guys with the armor problem and then stuck cameras in their faces. The NY Times reporter asked me to email him the stories I had already done on it, but I said he could search for them himself on the Internet and he better not steal any of my lines.
Interesting. I never heard of this, but then again, Canada is one of the most Liberal nations on earth, and our media that reflects that. So, I guess this sort of thing was not very heavily reported up here, if at all.
Viper Zero
This is what a solider does. I'm sorry, but if you want to ***** to someone about your extended duty, ***** to the terrorists who keep shooting at you.
I have no problem with someone wanting to serve three tours of duty, but forcing someone who has already had enough of Iraq to go back and serve a
third tour of duty is just plain cruel. Most people can only take so much physcological hardship before they start to lose it.
I pray that veterans of this Iraq war will get enough support once they get back to America for all of their health needs, whether it be physical or mental health. There sure are going to be lots of veterans needing such support.
Viper Zero
Bush specifically said: "major operations", not the peace keeping mission.
I don't know what Bush is smoking if he feels that the 'major operation' of the entire campaign was defeating the pitiful Iraqi forces. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of warfare knows that the US and Britain should have had no problem defeating the Iraqi forces, which they didn't. It was like taking candy from a baby. The occupation on the other hand, well that's a different story.
