U.S senate declares war on US

[Keef]

The description of the bill is certainly worrying, but it's also being blown way out of proportion because of these stupid fear mongers. The Govt. says they're taking/banning away just 1 thing, anything, & these idiots come out in full force declaring that you're losing your freedom.

You're from Texas, shame on you!

One thing is one too many. Your shotgun knows that, do you? You two should team up and work together. I know a few fellers from round these parts who'll be glad ta help. Gonna haffta set that BMW aside though son. We drive TRUCKS.

MERICA.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're from Texas, shame on you!

One thing is one too many. Your shotgun knows that, do you? You two should team up and work together. I know a few fellers from round these parts who'll be glad ta help. Gonna haffta set that BMW aside though son. We drive TRUCKS.

MERICA.

this is just too funny.

Not em' there nisson trucks, but real merican ford trucks.

 

[spunwicked]

Hi guys,

A few of my good friends brought this to my attention this morning:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...est-threat-to-civil-liberties-americans-face/

In a nutshell, if someone that is backed by the government calls you a terrorist, they can detain you for life.

Do you guys know about this? This is some dark, sinister beyond excusable stuff going down.

Any guys from the USA care to shed a light on how this was allowed to come into effect?

 

[Touring Mars]

Hi guys,

A few of my good friends brought this to my attention this morning:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...est-threat-to-civil-liberties-americans-face/

In a nutshell, if someone that is backed by the government calls you a terrorist, they can detain you for life.

Do you guys know about this? This is some dark, sinister beyond excusable stuff going down.

Any guys from the USA care to shed a light on how this was allowed to come into effect?

Merged, as there is already a thread on this topic

 

[Crispy]

So, under that, I could call Keef a terrorist, and they'd detain him forever? (I wouldn't ever do that Keef. ) Without any proof at all, they would be able to do this? Our country's gone even more insane.

 

[PeterJB]

Paranoia has gone through the roof. The US isn't the only country thats been attacked by terrorists.

 

[spunwicked]

Check this out:-

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...t-users-and-a-few-senators-are-fighting-back/

Chinese style Internet firewalls for our fellow GTP USA users? Guys, are you sleepwalking?

Maybe deserves it's own thread?

 

[DJones]

I would have to quote this entire thread, so I won't, but instead I will just say; I have always thought that moving overseas when I'm older and have a family would be a good idea. Better schools, nicer people, HEALTHIER people, ect. My main reason was the better schooling for my children are growing up, but now I feel like hiking to Canada would be good enough - no offense Canada, but it's just too cold - now it has got to the point I'm feeling like I just want out. Seriously, congress's approval rating is below 9%. To put things in perspective, herpes is now more popular than congress.

What puts the icing on the cake; I'm an eighteen year old male finishing my last year of high school and I just said everything above while many adults, more than likely, could not.

 

[Alex p.]

People still doubt the New World Order plans? Which have been actually ANNOUNCED by George Bush Seniour, other politicians and even the Pope.

So, "rational" people, where are you now? Is it still all a stupid conspiracy theory?

What is happening now with the US has been accurately predicted for decades by so called "conspiracy theorists".

Because they, actually understand what is called "politics" and partially "economy".

 

[nk4e]

Well its passed the Senate.

Top recipients for ALL opposing interest groups

Name Amount Received Vote On Passage
Rep. William Owens [D, NY-23] $296,959 Aye
Rep. Chellie Pingree [D, ME-1] $203,450 Nay
Rep. Gary Peters [D, MI-9] $157,620 Aye
Rep. Niki Tsongas [D, MA-5] $128,950 Aye
Rep. Kurt Schrader [D, OR-5] $102,750 Nay
Rep. Martin Heinrich [D, NM-1] $69,313 Aye
Rep. Frank Pallone [D, NJ-6] $67,150 Nay
Rep. Gerald Connolly [D, VA-11] $60,480 Aye
Rep. James Himes [D, CT-4] $57,450 Nay
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D, CA-11] $49,560 Aye

Sen. Michael Bennet [D, CO] $1,255,915
Sen. Barbara Boxer [D, CA] $259,755
Sen. Chris Coons [D, DE] $208,418
Sen. Patty Murray [D, WA] $151,349
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand [D, NY] $139,899
Sen. Richard Blumenthal [D, CT] $128,699
Sen. Harry Reid [D, NV] $100,965
Sen. Al Franken [D, MN] $90,468
Sen. Charles Schumer [D, NY] $82,300
Sen. Patrick Leahy [D, VT] $70,000
Specific Organizations Opposing H.R.1540

Environmentalists Against War
Progressive Democrats of America

Look at those numbers for the paper trial..

 

[Crispy]

Obama better veto it. The Legislature was not smart in coming up with these laws.

 

[DJones]

People still doubt the New World Order plans? Which have been actually ANNOUNCED by George Bush Seniour, other politicians and even the Pope.

So, "rational" people, where are you now? Is it still all a stupid conspiracy theory?

What is happening now with the US has been accurately predicted for decades by so called "conspiracy theorists".

Because they, actually understand what is called "politics" and partially "economy".

They want us to be numb, deaf, and blind. If you open your eyes, listen every now and then, and get the feel for what's going on; you just might find out where all the bull**** is coming from.

 

[Alex p.]

They want us to be numb, deaf, and blind. If you open your eyes, listen every now and then, and get the feel for what's going on; you just might find out where all the bull**** is coming from.

I'm kinda confused, so you are against the "government"? So to say...

 

[McLaren]

So you trust what the Gov't says? That's a little worrying.

Nowhere in any of that did I say I trust what the Govt. says. Then again, since that's what you got out of it, you're probably one of those fear mongers I'm talking about, taking words & passages out of context to support your view.

Let me guess. 9/11 was an inside job as well & we fight wars for oil.

 

[SkierPS3]

Good thing we still have the second amendment ;p

 

[DJones]

I'm kinda confused, so you are against the "government"? So to say...

Kind of. Think of alllllll the corrupt officials and cover-ups.

I'm not just saying yeah f the system. Rebel without a cause!

I just think it's compete bull that spending has gone crazy and continues to even though our debt ticker is spinning relentlessly.

 

[terminator363]

I think 2012 is upon us .

European Problems, America's problems, this, the middle east, etc...

 

[Grayfox]

I think 2012 is upon us .

European Problems, America's problems, this, the middle east, etc...

Don't leave us Aussies out, earthworms have more brains than our government.

 

[spunwicked]

Don't leave us Aussies out, earthworms have more brains than our government.

My sister jumped ship a couple of years ago to live in Australia and she's quite settled now. I know where I would rather be mate 👍

 

[Grayfox]

My sister jumped ship a couple of years ago to live in Australia and she's quite settled now. I know where I would rather be mate 👍

You don't want to be here.

Job unemployment is starting to effect people.

Since our dollar is strong people are buying online which effects the retail sector.

 

[nk4e]

A secret committee?

 

[McLaren]

This applies to a couple of you.

What do Ron Paul, the American Civil Liberties Union, Conservative Action Alerts, Democratic Underground, and Alex Jones and his Prison Planet group all have in common?


Not much, but these well-known conservative and liberal icons have all gone into full-blown panic mode over Senate Bill 1867, otherwise known as the National Defense Authorization Act, which passed in the Senate the other day on a vote of 93 to 7.


All right, we admit we get a little panicky when bipartisanship breaks out in D.C., too, but this is ridiculous.


Throughout the Internet, the Defense Authorization Act is being referred to by the ominous title of the Indefinite Detention Bill. The Inter Lake has been assured by various parties, both local and nationwide, that passage of the bill would be tantamount to a declaration of martial law, that our civil liberties will be stripped away until we are naked against the bulwark of the federal government, and that it is just a matter of time before good Americans are locked up without trial in the same way that the Soviet Union imprisoned enemies of the communist state.


Well, yes, somebody may be locked up, but we are confident that it won’t be good Americans. Indeed, if the thousands of people forwarding scary emails about the bill would stop and actually investigate, they would find out that in large measure U.S. citizens are exempted from the law.
Remember, this is a gargantuan 926-page bill, but there are only two small sections that have people up in arms, or nearly so. But it is those two exact sections that provide the evidence that there is nothing to panic about.


According to Section 1032 on “Requirement for Military Custody,” for instance, “the requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not apply to citizens of the United States.”
Seems pretty plain to us.


And Section 1031, which relates to the use of the armed forces to detain covered people “pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force,” has a very narrow purpose of describing detention “under the law of war” of people who either participated in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, or is a member or “substantial supporter” of al-Qaida, the Taliban, or “associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.”


This DOES apply to U.S. citizens, but it has already been established in plentiful detail that traitors who join forces with the enemy are subject to military law, including detention and worse.
This concern about protecting Americans who might be judged by the government to be at war with the United States seems to be misplaced, at best, and mischievous at worst. There is a virtually nil chance that you or your neighbors will be swept up off the street and locked up in “indefinite detention” unless you are indeed engaged in war against the United States.
At that point, sorry, you lose most of your civil liberties.


Moreover, we would encourage everyone to think about the oath of office that many federal officials take, including all members of Congress. Remember, they are sworn “to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Those who are engaged in war against the United States are just such enemies, whether they are citizens or not.


We often disagree with the government, but that is not the same thing as being at war with it. Let’s not scare people into lessening the few protections we have against those who are dedicated to destroying our way of life.

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/opinion/editorials/article_7323c450-2155-11e1-8154-001871e3ce6c.html

If some of you would actually read the bulk of this, you'd realize none of you have really anything to worry about. The worst thing about this bill is that it's really just to cover their ass so they don't catch grief from killing a US citizen who has defected & is waging war against the US. In short, they don't want another Anwar Al-Awlaki.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Nowhere in any of that did I say I trust what the Govt. says. Then again, since that's what you got out of it, you're probably one of those fear mongers I'm talking about, taking words & passages out of context to support your view.

Let me guess. 9/11 was an inside job as well & we fight wars for oil.

You said it yourself, it's pretty simple to get to that conclusion and you taken offense to it instead of simply trying to show me what you mean proves a bit. You also ironically lump me into the 9/11 inside job group and anti-war group, two groups that are by the supposed "regular patriotic American" un-American and anti-gov't. So since you say they're all fear mongering you must be for the pro-gov't is this not so? I don't need to twist anything, I'll just give you the facts, also it would seem that you are the one once again using false rhetoric to help your argument.

Let's start with the 9/11 not being known by the gov't, I'm not going to give you some back yard engineering deconstruct test or bombs in the buildings or any of that. Simple the NSA had a choice between two systems that could be used to hone in and figure out what picked enemies were doing through means of cell phone tracing, email tracing and other things. Trailblazer and Thintread, these were the two choices, Thintread was cheaper and a simple update of the NSA that would work since it all ran successful beta testing. Trailblazer was a bloated version that was expensive, ran over the intended budget, and finally failed after several unsuccessful runs and was never put into full use. The options for these were given in the first quarter of 2001 and the analysts working for the NSA believe that this overhaul could have predicted 9/11. I guess it's true what the people in the business say about the NSA: NSA, 1950s mentality with 1970s technology. Then we go on to look at John P. O'Neill a top guy at the FBI that probably knew more about Osama Bin Laden than the top brass during the Clinton admin that tried to kill OBL. Also, you have the Phoenix FBI flight letter that was never read by the New York office cause they were too busy trying to smear O'Neill and quiet him over the Osama business. However, if you want more info watch the Frontline report on O'Neill.

As for the NSA one I'll give you the video here on Drake the whistle blower that the NSA tried to imprison over telling the world about the screw up that was done. Yeah sounds like the gov't sure is out to protect our best interest and not cover their backs.


Now your idea that the U.S. didn't go to war with Iraq for a little oil...well we'll send you there to find the WMDs. If we didn't go there for the inteded mission then what were we there for. Cause alot of Military would like to know that answer and seeing that your insulting enough why don't you go give them that answer. The only problem I see here is your outlandish ideas to not study history, there have been many coups set up by the U.S. government and that more many coverups that have not helped this nation flourish but become more of a target. Now I ask why would that be?

 

[McLaren]

Let's get one thing straight. I was being sarcastic when I was talking about 9/11 & the war. But, after skimming through that, I guess I was right.
I'm not debating any of that in this thread or with you. That's a dead horse I've beaten enough over the years.

The problem with the country is folks who resort to fear mongering. Quick to place 100% of the blame on the Govt. when some new bill comes out & tell you they're taking away all our freedoms. But, as is the issue with most Americans today, they're too damn lazy to actually search for anything themselves, too willing to let someone just tell them this is what's up & accept it. Instead of letting these news articles scare you into believing the Govt. is constantly on the verge of turning into North Korea, try actually looking at the full sections of these bills instead of ripped out paragraphs that make us all look like future Guantanamo Bay inmates.

And before you play the "Trust everything the Govt. says" card again, no I don't. But, I also know not every thing they do is evil. If there is anyone I blame, it's the media outlet because "Bad News" sales & the American people are too much of sheep to question it most of the time.

 

[nk4e]

From the bill about Counterterrorism
Though my initial thoughts about this bill, that the American Government does not have the power to detain its own people. But, I am looking for more info daily about this bill. I found articles about the fear and articles about fake fear. Some reports shows that if the statement " detain U.S citizens" or that like isn't taking out President Obama is going to veto it.

 

[A2K78]

how despotic have america become?


http://www.strike-the-root.com/71/tudor/tudor4.html

 

[nk4e]

We will see if the Current President will sign it. It has passed both Senate and House.

Most importantly, President Obama has threatened to veto the bill if it contains the problematic language. President Obama, citing serious legal and policy concerns, has threatened to veto the bill if the two provisions are not removed. In a recent memo to the Senate, the administration asserted that, "applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets." It is time for the citizens to speak up for their rights before they are gone..

 

[Danisfast]

We will see if the Current President will sign it. It has passed both Senate and House.

Surely, such an obvious infringement of American civil liberties can't have been overlooked by the Senate AND the House. How could such a bill have gotten so far...? Are we misunderstanding something here?

...And, uh, why isn't Ron Paul more popular over there? I saw him in the last republican race and to say he was beaten would seem an understatement...

 

[Keef]

This applies to a couple of you.

Don't care about your justification malarkey. This is a matter of principle. There is no reason to be terrified for your life because of this bill - there is reason to be wary about the precedent that is sets, and the philosophy it represents, because those things are potentially very dangerous. Civilization after civilization has fallen throughout history because of a series of small, seemingly insignificant policy changes that, over time, removed power from individual citizens, transferred power to government officials, subjected the populace to civil rights violations, created power corruption within the government, and eventually led to all-out economic and political chaos and failure. If you don't recognize that as fact, and don't think it can happen again, then you are naive and insane.

 

[arora]

Hmmmm

Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations; but, on a candid examination of history, we shall find that turbulence, violence, and abuse of power, by the majority trampling on the rights of the minority, have produced factions and commotions, which, in republics, have, more frequently than any other cause, produced despotism. If we go over the whole history of ancient and modern republics, we shall find their destruction to have generally resulted from those causes.