Umpqua, Oregon, Mass Public Killings, Oct 1st 2015.

Horrible incident.

Prayers are no longer the answer.

:rolleyes:

I don't mean to detract from the tragedy but things like that really make me cringe. Even though it needs to be said, it's ridiculous logic. The comfort of, and right to, prayer is all fine and dandy and I have no problem with it but it does nothing in the grand scheme of things.
 
Horrible incident.



:rolleyes:

I don't mean to detract from the tragedy but things like that really make me cringe. Even though it needs to be said, it's ridiculous logic. The comfort of, and right to, prayer is all fine and dandy and I have no problem with it but it does nothing in the grand scheme of things.
The US by large is a God fearing nation so it's the obvious thing to say to get his point across.

The Onion has it right... http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-prevent-says-only-nation-where-regularly-ha-51444
 
When the media chooses to report on mass killings, they need to report it in the most dull and boring way possible. Starting off the segment on nightly news with sirens blaring, crying students running for their lives, and family members clutching each other tightly makes the story too dramatic and sensational. When the media plasters the name and face of the killer all over the news, the killer is being treated like a superstar. Think back to some of the most gruesome mass killings in the past few years. Sandy Hook Elementary School, Aurora movie theatre, and the Charleston church. Can you remember the names of any of the victims? How about the killers? That's an easy one. Adam Lanza, James Holmes, and Dylann Roof. These names are memorable because the media chose to put their names everywhere. If the news agencies were smart, they would have listened to experts in the field of criminology who constantly tell them not to make these situations big stories. When you treat a ruthless killer like a superstar, you're giving them what they wanted. You're inspiring copycat killers to commit the same atrocities so they can get their wish of being known forever. By making the story brief and not as engaging, you strip the killers of their wishes. People will always want to be informed, but there is a right and wrong way of delivering the information. There will always be killings because you can't secure everything. Shopping malls, schools, colleges, hospitals, hotels, sports events, concerts, you name it. They are targets and nothing will change that, but we can slow down the severity of these crimes if we don't sensationalize them like we have been for years.

Rant over. I think this is the longest post I've ever made on GTP. I expect to be quoted, rebutted, and picked apart by many of you. I ask you to please be respectful in your criticism, and allow me adequate time to make a response to your posts.

They are smart that's why they do it, more people tune in to be angry about it for whatever reason and thus the media has done it's job to get people to join in for a nightly session. They hope that another such event will happen soon so you can all join again and give them the much needed viewership and ad revenue to keep them big.

If they actually cared, they'd do what you said which is the smart and better thing to do. Other than that if people actually give a damn about the gun aspect on this, we have a nice thread with dozens of pages to comb over that teach and help you understand the mountain you face that shouldn't be covered or rehashed here.
 
No.

Nothing has changed because politicians are entirely driven by the goal of re-election, not governing for the betterment of society.
How is that not totally in line with what I said?

Let me clarify; I'm not saying that they're all monolithically pushing one agenda, rather that they're too busy thinking how they can use events such as these for their own gain rather than actually addressing the underlying causes.
 
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They are smart that's why they do it, more people tune in to be angry about it for whatever reason and thus the media has done it's job to get people to join in for a nightly session. They hope that another such event will happen soon so you can all join again and give them the much needed viewership and ad revenue to keep them big.

If they actually cared, they'd do what you said which is the smart and better thing to do. Other than that if people actually give a damn about the gun aspect on this, we have a nice thread with dozens of pages to comb over that teach and help you understand the mountain you face that shouldn't be covered or rehashed here.
You can't just rely on one front to cure a social problem like this. Doing so is probably worse than doing nothing, but it's almost certainly doomed to failure and ingrains cynicism within the public, making it harder for anything to gain traction.

Put it like this: the biggest issue in Australia is domestic violence. And we can respond to that with a media blitz, congratulate ourselves on having raised awareness over the short term, and then wonder why it happens again and again. Instead, we need the media blitz, education campaigns, public and private funding for victim support and a legislative approach (to make an Apprehended Violence Order issued in one state valid in all states).

The same has to be said for gun violence in the United States. Taken individually, legislation, public funding and media campaigns only go so far.
 
You can't just rely on one front to cure a social problem like this. Doing so is probably worse than doing nothing, but it's almost certainly doomed to failure and ingrains cynicism within the public, making it harder for anything to gain traction.

Who said or implied that in the first place. I'm agreeing with @CallmeDan, but no where did he or I say that by solving this everything is fixed. However, those with a propensity for madness in such a way that they kill to be glorified and forever remembered could be staved off a good deal when they know no one will care or plaster their face about because they did what they did.

Put it like this: the biggest issue in Australia is domestic violence. And we can respond to that with a media blitz, congratulate ourselves on having raised awareness over the short term, and then wonder why it happens again and again. Instead, we need the media blitz, education campaigns, public and private funding for victim support and a legislative approach (to make an Apprehended Violence Order issued in one state valid in all states).

The same has to be said for gun violence in the United States. Taken individually, legislation, public funding and media campaigns only go so far.

Yeah...none of what you said has anything to do with what I posted, since I purposely took myself out of the legislation and gun aspect of it. Why? Becasue of a certain thread, I'll link it ( I know you know it but for others who might not).
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/guns.33891/page-116

The only portion remotely related. is the media aspect which in the U.S. is far from educating those on what happened and more into the sensationalism.
 
ANOTHER ONE!!!

There really is an issue with the shootings. The rules on weapons need to be stricter so some of the bad people won't get encourage to go out on a shooting spree.

I'm still shock that 2 people were planning on doing a mass shooting at the Pokemon World Championships.
 
ANOTHER ONE!!!

There really is an issue with the shootings. The rules on weapons need to be stricter so some of the bad people won't get encourage to go out on a shooting spree.

I'm still shock that 2 people were planning on doing a mass shooting at the Pokemon World Championships.
Seriously? The Pokemon World Championships? :yuck: :grumpy:
 
if-guns-were-cars-ows.png
None of those regulations apply to cars operated solely on private property, however.
 
They are smart that's why they do it, more people tune in to be angry about it for whatever reason and thus the media has done it's job to get people to join in for a nightly session. They hope that another such event will happen soon so you can all join again and give them the much needed viewership and ad revenue to keep them big.

If they actually cared, they'd do what you said which is the smart and better thing to do. Other than that if people actually give a damn about the gun aspect on this, we have a nice thread with dozens of pages to comb over that teach and help you understand the mountain you face that shouldn't be covered or rehashed here.

I feel that with advertisement revenue, corporations are relying too much on getting money by having families tune in at primetime for coverage of these situations. They should care more about getting the facts out than making money. I understand that it takes a massive amount of money to run a news corporation and to pay employees, but capitalizing on your audience at times like these seems wrong to me.

Who said that the media has to be the one doing the educating?

Since they have such a high influence over the general public, perhaps it's better for them to get the points across.

ANOTHER ONE!!!

There really is an issue with the shootings. The rules on weapons need to be stricter so some of the bad people won't get encourage to go out on a shooting spree.

I'm still shock that 2 people were planning on doing a mass shooting at the Pokemon World Championships.
Seriously? The Pokemon World Championships? :yuck: :grumpy:

Like I said in my mega post, any public gathering is susceptible to terrorism. It doesn't matter who is attending, or what the event is about. Any place that will have a large amount of people where you can inflict as much panic and chaos possible is a target.
 
How about just no guns Dennisch? It works everywhere else in the world.

Anders Breivik says otherwise.

You know what else a large amount of the world has that the U.S. doesn't? A mental health system that actually helps people. I think if we focused on that these shootings would go back to being tragedies instead of the routine news they've sadly become.
 
When the media chooses to report on mass killings, they need to report it in the most dull and boring way possible. Starting off the segment on nightly news with sirens blaring, crying students running for their lives, and family members clutching each other tightly makes the story too dramatic and sensational. When the media plasters the name and face of the killer all over the news, the killer is being treated like a superstar. Think back to some of the most gruesome mass killings in the past few years. Sandy Hook Elementary School, Aurora movie theatre, and the Charleston church. Can you remember the names of any of the victims? How about the killers? That's an easy one. Adam Lanza, James Holmes, and Dylann Roof. These names are memorable because the media chose to put their names everywhere. If the news agencies were smart, they would have listened to experts in the field of criminology who constantly tell them not to make these situations big stories. When you treat a ruthless killer like a superstar, you're giving them what they wanted. You're inspiring copycat killers to commit the same atrocities so they can get their wish of being known forever. By making the story brief and not as engaging, you strip the killers of their wishes. People will always want to be informed, but there is a right and wrong way of delivering the information. There will always be killings because you can't secure everything. Shopping malls, schools, colleges, hospitals, hotels, sports events, concerts, you name it. They are targets and nothing will change that, but we can slow down the severity of these crimes if we don't sensationalize them like we have been for years.

Rant over. I think this is the longest post I've ever made on GTP. I expect to be quoted, rebutted, and picked apart by many of you. I ask you to please be respectful in your criticism, and allow me adequate time to make a response to your posts.

The sheriff agrees with you:
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015...r-say-umpqua-community-college-shooters-name/

It's kind of hard to talk about the root cause when groups like the NRA shut down any discussion before it can begin. As soon as anyone starts talking about an issue thst they feel will become a platform for a wider discussion about gun control, they shut it down and demonise it as a government-sponsored attack on their rights.

For an issue like this one, there is not going to be one easy solution. Gun control and gun control alone won't fix it - just as mental health support and mental health support alone won't do it. A multi-lateral approach is needed, but it will only work if you have equal support on all fronts from all parties. And so long as the NRA are on the fringe - acknowledging individual tragedies but refusing to recognise the wider problem, even to deny that it exists - that's not going to happen.
I don't think the problem is lack of discussion, there's plenty of discussion on the subject. Rather, let me rephrase, there's plenty of speech making on the subject, plenty of lecturing and finger pointing, but very little actual back and forth discussion. It's an ever increasing theme in American politics, drawing up sides, digging in for all you're worth, never giving an inch. It doesn't ever lead to much as in this day and age, after a few days a more titillating subject comes along and the media will be all over that instead. You know, the Kardashian kid, South East or whatever it's name is, might get it's own tv show. Or Bruce Jenner will make a charity visit to a prison because he's not charged with a crime in his obviously at fault vehicular homicide. Or some other important story like that.
 
Same old nonsense again.

Someone got shot, everyone who wants guns banned goes on an anti-gun rant as though it would make a difference. It's already illegal to kill 10 people in a school, making guns illegal doesn't suddenly prevent anything. Almost everyone in this thread is guilty of grabbing a headline and immediately politicizing it to further a cause that has nothing to do with the headline. There is no easy solution to the problem of people wanting to murder lots of other people. Banning videogames, movies, guns, none of it addresses the problem. Get over yourselves.

Oh, and by the way, we can't ban guns. US lawmakers are not allowed to do it, move on.
 
here is no easy solution to the problem of people wanting to murder lots of other people. Banning videogames, movies, guns, none of it addresses the problem. Get over yourselves.

What's your solution, provided that there is one.

The US gun debate is as complicated as solving the crisis in the Middle East.
 
What's your solution, provided that there is one.

Focus on family and psychological health, and just know that some of this kind of thing is going to happen. There will always be a psychopath that goes out and kills a bunch of people, just like there will always be car accidents, terrorist attacks, and defective drugs. Preventing 100% of any of that would grind society to a halt.

Also, I don't need a solution to point out that other peoples' solutions are not solutions.

The US gun debate is as complicated as solving the crisis in the Middle East.

No it's not. US lawmakers are legally forbidden from banning guns. End of discussion.
 
No it's not. US lawmakers are legally forbidden from banning guns. End of discussion.

Banning them will never happen, I know that. But even mentioning some sort of regulation seems to spark the worst in some people.
 
Banning them will never happen, I know that. But even mentioning some sort of regulation seems to spark the worst in some people.

Exactly what regulation would you propose that would have prevented the Oregon shooting? Or any of the other shootings? and why do you think it would have prevented it?
 
Maybe we need to stop reporting events like these. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. Perhaps if the news would start reporting only good things, fewer bad things would happen?
 
Exactly what regulation would you propose that would have prevented the Oregon shooting? Or any of the other shootings? and why do you think it would have prevented it?

Seeing that there are sooooo many weapons available in the US for the average Joe, I have no idea how this can be tackled. Checking every gun owner and his/her family for mental stability issues requires an army of inspectors, and most likely will spark a new debate about privacy invasion or something.
Once that has been done there is the matter of all the unregistered weapons.


So, I got nothing.
 
It doesn't ever lead to much as in this day and age, after a few days a more titillating subject comes along and the media will be all over that instead. You know, the Kardashian kid, South East or whatever it's name is, might get it's own tv show. Or Bruce Jenner will make a charity visit to a prison because he's not charged with a crime in his obviously at fault vehicular homicide. Or some other important story like that.
Maybe it's because I'm on the other side of the world, but I kind of see what you mean. We don't get the finer points of the debate - we get the highlights reel; Obama decrying it as routine, then Bohenor offering a rebuttal that is little more than character assassination, and in the end, both sides just preach to their respective choirs. It seems to be a problem that all Western democracies face: the attitude that "reform" really means "do it my way (and don't question it)". Meanwhile, the American broadcasting that we get is emphasising the Kardashian response to Caitlin Jenner, making her out to be a war criminal and the Kardashians as the slutty sorority circus SEAL team sent in to make her feel guilty about taking the limelight away from them and what were we talking about again? I forget because they're also going to Armenia - or at least a Hollywood version of it that might as well be Mars - in an upcoming episode.
 
Once that has been done there is the matter of all the unregistered weapons.

So, I got nothing.

Right, passing a law against illegal firearms would be an exercise in futility, kinda like passing laws against obtaining weapons used to break laws. Ultimately none of it really addresses the problem, which is that someone was ready to die and wanted to take out a bunch of other people along the way. Oklahoma city proved that all you really need is a moving van with some fertilizer to do a lot of damage.
 
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"There were more than 18,600 motor-vehicle deaths from January through June this year, compared to 16,400 deaths in the first six months of 2014."

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/17/autos/traffic-fatalities-up-2015/

And guns are the problem...?

You have the illusion of control when it comes to traffic fatalities, not so when talking about gun crime. Suddenly people who think they have eliminated all possibilities of disaster in their lives are reminded that they can't, and get angry.
 
So what if Obama (or his successor) bans them by executive order?

Let us not forget that some 70,000 US citizens were unconstitutionally rounded up by executive order.

Then it will be overturned by the supreme court, and I would argue that impeachment would be appropriate. The president is not above the constitution.
 
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