Umpqua, Oregon, Mass Public Killings, Oct 1st 2015.

The last shooting we've had in Argentina dates back to 2004. It was the Carmen de Patagones school shooting. A 15-year old used his father's gun (he was in the army), killing 3 and injuring other 5. We have little to no gun culture as opposed to the United States.

The reason why I say this is because there hasn't been a mass school murder in Argentina ever since that one. I read some users saying people will find ways of killing people with other tools. The question that has to be asked is: are guns really the reason why these crimes exist, or is something else going on with American teenagers?

I find it hard to believe that no kid in Argentina, ever since 2004, hasn't felt the urge to injury his classmates. Yet for some reason we don't get any reports of mass murdering with knives or bombs. So is it the readily available guns that makes teenagers commit mass murder, or is it that they far more vulnerable than comparable teenagers from other countries? I'm talking issues like bullying and the like.
 
Lucas
The last shooting we've had in Argentina dates back to 2004. It was the Carmen de Patagones school shooting. A 15-year old used his father's gun (he was in the army), killing 3 and injuring other 5. We have little to no gun culture as opposed to the United States.

The reason why I say this is because there hasn't been a mass school murder in Argentina ever since that one. I read some users saying people will find ways of killing people with other tools. The question that has to be asked is: are guns really the reason why these crimes exist, or is something else going on with American teenagers?

I find it hard to believe that no kid in Argentina, ever since 2004, hasn't felt the urge to injury his classmates. Yet for some reason we don't get any reports of mass murdering with knives or bombs. So is it the readily available guns that makes teenagers commit mass murder, or is it that they far more vulnerable than comparable teenagers from other countries? I'm talking issues like bullying and the like.
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Argentina has more murders per capita than the US (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murder-rate). Note that Argentina isn't even on the map when it comes to firearm murders (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders-with-firearms-per-million). So it seems that "they will find a way" is very true for Argentina at least.
 
Danoff
Argentina has more murders per capita than the US (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murder-rate). Note that Argentina isn't even on the map when it comes to firearm murders (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Murders-with-firearms-per-million). So it seems that "they will find a way" is very true for Argentina at least.
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Except those murders don't come from school shootings. They are largely due to robberies, to the point I have never heard of murders between schoolmates in more than I can remember (in fact, I don't remember any, Carmen de Patagones is more of a "popular culture" thing that anything else, we usually say "this guy will go Carmen de Patagones someday"). I don't know how crime works in Argentina, but here some people will murder you just to get your shoes, and it's not a joke. Plus you can't compare stabbing one person, alone, at night, to entering a school and try to stab 20 people without nobody stopping you. It just isn't the same.

A lot of those criminals I describe are also armed with guns, not knives. Once again, I'm discussing only school and public shootings here, not people trying to rob other people.


EDIT: Jesus, those Uruguay figures are mental.
 
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I have a cousin and grandparents that live in Roseburg, plus a great friend who grew up there. It's sad that we have so many guns; nearly 1 for every person in the US. Another reminder that life isn't priceless, it costs the 2nd amendment.


Jerome
 
How many times have we seen this now? His profile fits a foot like a custom-made shoe.


-graduated from a special school for kids with Behavioral/Emotional problems and learning disabilities with 4 others.

-was somewhat anti-social, describes himself as "shy at first but opens up in small groups"

-never had a girlfriend

- had a facebook video up with him trolling the streets for hookers

- did not drink smoke or do drugs (straight edge)

-mixed race, 14-34 age demographic

- describes himself as non-religious

-was a member of two satanic groups, Left hand Path and another occult group (shot Christians in the head yesterday, is this making sense now?)

Now, I'm not going to go as far as to call this loser a Satanist, but clearly he had an active interest in it and it factored into who he killed yesterday.

Obviously we have a societal problem with our youth and young adults which is the root cause of these shootings (guns just make them easier). We also have a Mental health epidemic and a problem with Psychotropic drugs prescribed like candy to kids which clearly cause adverse chemical reactions in their brain, particularly when they are weaned off them, but hey let's just argue about 'dem guns' and miss the bigger picture, it's all just really that simple, huh.

No, this complex issue is multifaceted and any possible solution should be treated as such. This is a 3-side coin.
 
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DDastardly00
I wouldn't have known his name or had the displeasure of reading about him if he hadn't shot up a school, so the obvious answer to that question is no.
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That's one way of evading a question. Would you call a loser someone who fits into those seven categories of yours, and doesn't shoot up a school?

DDastardly00
And that's is precisely why these 'types' commit these crimes, they want to be infamous and join that stupid club.
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And you don't think that the way some people may have treated him caused him to do what he did?
 
DDastardly00
How many times have we seen this now? His profile fits a foot like a custom-made shoe.


-graduated from a special school for kids with Behavioral/Emotional problems and learning disabilities with 4 others.

-was somewhat anti-social, describes himself as "shy at first but opens up in small groups"

-never had a girlfriend

- had a facebook video up with him trolling the streets for hookers

- did not drink smoke or do drugs (straight edge)

-mixed race, 14-34 age demographic

- describes himself as non-religious

-was a member of two satanic groups, Left hand Path and another occult group (shot Christians in the head yesterday, is this making sense now?)

Now, I'm not going to go as far as to call this loser a Satanist, but clearly he had an active interest in it and it factored into who he killed yesterday.

Obviously we have a societal problem with our youth and young adults which is the root cause of these shootings (guns just make them easier). We also have a Mental health epidemic and a problem with Psychotropic drugs prescribed like candy to kids which clearly cause adverse chemical reactions in their brain, particularly when they are weaned off them, but hey let's just argue about 'dem guns' and miss the bigger picture, it's all just really that simple, huh.

No, this complex issue is multifaceted and any possible solution should be treated as such. This is a 3-side coin.
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Greetings, fellow Seattleite! Oh, and a very nice and informative post!

Our governor, Jay Inslee, has been quoted saying that because we are so advanced technologically, culturally and democratically, we should not be having these mass shootings. What do you think about that?
 
Lucas
That's one way of evading a question. Would you call a loser someone who fits into those seven categories of yours, and doesn't shoot up a school?
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I gave an honest, very common sense answer to your question, sorry you feel that way. Look, some people have issues and I have a great deal of sympathy for that, but they guy became a loser when he shot up a school yesterday.


Lucas
And you don't think that the way some people may have treated him caused him to do what he did?
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Ah, the old " but he was bullied" canard. At the end of the day people are responsible for their own actions, that is my belief.
 
Dotini
Greetings, fellow Seattleite! Oh, and a very nice and informative post!

Our governor, Jay Inslee, has been quoted saying that because we are so advanced technologically, culturally and democratically, we should not be having these mass shootings. What do you think about that?
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Greetings Dotini, I would like to think Jay is right, but in my opinion technology can be construed as a culprit for the loss in social skill development and in my mind is contributing factor in these shootings. Feeling isolated, alone is never good. People need to feel wanted and loved. No, I am not going to 'blame the internet' or anything, but I believe it to be a factor.
 
Maybe it somewhat sticks out more to me as someone who lives with a mental Disorder, but does anyone else notice the recent shootings we've this year have lately have been done mainly by people with mental issues? Maybe I'm the only one thinking this, but its starting to feel more like we need to stop looking at the weapons carrying out the means and more at the people using those weapons to carry out these means. As corny and cliché as this might be, it still rings true: Guns don't kill people, People with guns kill people.
 
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Danoff
No it's not. US lawmakers are legally forbidden from banning guns. End of discussion.
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You know what, there's a certain way to change an amendment, I don't know what it's called, but I believe it's an amendment act.
 
RACECAR
Maybe it somewhat sticks more to me as someone who's live with a mental Disorder, but does anyone else notice the recent shootings we've this year have lately have been done mainly by people with mental issues? Maybe I'm the only one thinking this, but its starting to feel more like we need to stop looking at the weapons carrying out the means and more at the people using those weapons to carry out these means. As corny and cliché as this might be, it still rings true: Guns don't kill people, People with guns kill people.
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No one in their sane mind shoots up a school, that's what I think, and I think it is a reasonable thought. Like you said, guns don't kill people. It's irresponsible people in the case of not-so-accidental missfires, playing with guns, and so on. It's mentally unstable people in the case of school shootings.

If America doesn't want to do something about guns, then America has to do something about the way people are being raised and treated at public buildings like schools.
 
RACECAR
Maybe it somewhat sticks more to me as someone who's live with a mental Disorder, but does anyone else notice the recent shootings we've this year have lately have been done mainly by people with mental issues? Maybe I'm the only one thinking this, but its starting to feel more like we need to stop looking at the weapons carrying out the means and more at the people using those weapons to carry out these means. As corny and cliché as this might be, it still rings true: Guns don't kill people, People with guns kill people.
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I hate to say this because it goes against my beliefs on privacy, but maybe it's time we start profiling these people prolifically that fit the demographic of a potential mass shooter, again, my innards crumble when I say that but I can't for the life of me think of a better way. It also seems far too easy for someone with mental issues to obtain access to firearms even though we have laws in place. There needs to be better oversight and enforcement of existing laws. We also need to reinvest in the mental health care we are providing to the people that need it, reopen some of the facilities that were closed due to budgetary reasons. It's obvious we are not addressing these problems adequately.
 
Chris Mintz is a hero, in the actual sense of how the word 'hero' should be used, he was shot 7 times trying to bar the shooter from entering (not 5 times as being reported), so glad he survived. I hope he makes a full recovery and never has to be in another situation like this again. He deserves the Congressional Medal of Honor or some civilian equivalent for his actions yesterday.
 
haitch40
That is a lie. Get 3 quarters of the states on side and it is perfectly legal.
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It's not a lie, it is currently illegal to ban guns. Yes, a constitutional convention can change what is legal and not legal for congress to pass laws on.
 
Danoff
It's not a lie, it is currently illegal to ban guns. Yes, a constitutional convention can change what is legal and not legal for congress to pass laws on.
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You never said congress. You said lawmakers. By definition of someone/a group who make the law you can include constitutional conventions.


Clarity always helps.
 
DDastardly00
I hate to say this because it goes against my beliefs on privacy, but maybe it's time we start profiling these people prolifically that fit the demographic of a potential mass shooter, again, my innards crumble when I say that but I can't for the life of me think of a better way. It also seems far too easy for someone with mental issues to obtain access to firearms even though we have laws in place. There needs to be better oversight and enforcement of existing laws. We also need to reinvest in the mental health care we are providing to the people that need it, reopen some of the facilities that were closed due to budgetary reasons. It's obvious we are not addressing these problems adequately.
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What had the shooter done before the shooting incident that would have clearly justified his questioning, investigation, treatment and/or arrest of some kind?

"His arsenal was legally obtained, but something snapped", is overwhelmingly the modus operandi of these mass shootings, it seems to me.

It seems to me that to go back in time to committing people to sanitariums might be a really great idea, movies like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest notwithstanding. But in Jay Inslee's advanced culture, we don't have such institutions and customs.
 
Danoff
It's not a lie, it is currently illegal to ban guns. Yes, a constitutional convention can change what is legal and not legal for congress to pass laws on.
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They're not going to do that. Nearly half of US households own a firearm, no way they'll get enough votes to amend the constitution. What they will do (and already have here in Washington) is make owning/purchasing/maintaining guns extremely expensive and difficult. That way not only do they fulfill their dream of disarming the public but also financially benefit from the ridiculous tax hikes and fines they put on anything related to firearms.

Always strikes me as ironic when something like this happens and the entire media screams for banning of all guns. Yet when the tables are turned and there is an active shooter that dispatched/detained by an armed citizen it hardly makes the local news. Now tell me about a fair media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2911219/posts

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1446

http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opin...cle_ba2d7bb8-2faa-5686-bc79-85d9361f62d4.html

http://www.ktxs.com/news/RV-PARK-KI...-with-gunman-who-killed-two-in-Early/15933066

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/college-student-shoots-kills-home-invader/nD9XG/

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/19251374.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Middle_School_dance_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_courthouse_shooting
 
XCfqbiq.jpg

Thomas Jefferson.
 
IforceV8
He should post on this forum,he would fit right in.
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Everyone should fit in to GTPlanet - it's not a particularly hard or complex ruleset to get right.

Why this chap in particular?
 
While there's no easy solution to gun violence, I do think it's way to easy to get a gun in the US. I own a few rifles that were very easy to buy and required almost no hassle by anyone, I only use them for target shooting and hunting but still I don't think it should be that easy. I do think if anyone wants to legally own a gun they should have to pass a background check and go through a training course that teaches you responsible ownership, safety, laws surrounding firearms, and how to actually shoot with range time. I've been through a couple of training courses just because I feel it's important and relatively soon my wife and I will be taking the course to get our CPL, however I know many gun owners don't do this.

While training and background checks won't prevent illegal gun ownership, it will at least provide those who legally own guns to have proper credentials. I think it also might make people feel a bit safer with a gun knowing that they've been properly trained on how to use it. It shouldn't be easier to get a gun then it is to get a car...another deadly weapon in the wrong hands.

As for illegal guns and mass killings, there's no easy way to stop it but I do think a mental health program in the US that isn't complete rubbish would help out. Also I think ammunition should really only be allowed to be sold to gun owners that posses a license that's only obtained through a training course. While this wouldn't prevent every crime involve gun violence, I do think it would help.

I'm not in favor of banning guns, I like mine and I think the ownership of one with training can be a rewarding experience, especially when it comes to target shooting and hunting.
 

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