Under $25K Sports Coupe Shown! YES, Pontiac is Making It! (Photos and such)

[YSSMAN]

PONTIAC!​

Merely minutes after the Pontiac Solstice roadster was launched, members of the media and the public alike were asking if General Motors had planned to build a hardtop version. Last year, GM's head car guy, Bob Lutz, said that a coupe was an almost sure thing, and now the automaker is rumored to have the coupe ready at some point in 2008, sooner than was previously expected.

According to Automotive News, the hardtop Solstice will usher in boosted performance expected to be carried into the roadster. Pontiac will stick with four-cylinder engines; any development on a V6 for the cars has been shelved. The V6 engines GM was developing would have been too heavy for the car's balance, according to insiders familiar with the program.

Well well well, look at that. Sure, GM has had the idea on the table for quite some time, but God forbid they actually get around to doing it. Still, for a car that will probably be available for under $25K with the 174 BHP I4 and probably right around $25K for the GXP model (a power boost coming), that isn't a bad deal.

...Now if Toyota would get on it after talking about it time, after time, after time...

Oh, and I nearly forgot that Pontiac has another RWD Coupe coming as well:

The Pontiac G5 to go "midsize" and RWD​

Its looking more and more like GM wants to make Pontiac into the American arm of Holden. Granted the Aussies won't have the Solstice any time soon, having the Commodore as the G8 is the first step, but having the long-rumored Torana (based on the Alpha chassis) as the G5, well, we're looking at a pretty close integration of product lines.

The G5 coupe will share the Alpha chassis with the Torana, and will be the coupe version of the G6 sedan, all of which will be making the move by the close of the decade. Engine options will predictably be V6s, although we can't rule-out I4s on the bottom end, and maybe a V8-powered GXP model. Expect prices to come just under the G8, which are expected to start in the mid $20K range.

----

Looks like Pontiac is "Building Excitement" Again...

 

[Tornado]

They are going to build the good looking one? Awesome.

 

[TopHat]

Good. Now drop the cheesy "G" names.

 

[McLaren]

Nice for Solstice, but the G5 doesn't impress me. It's just another clone of the same car they already have like almost every other thing they make.

 

[Azuremen]

They are going to build the good looking one? Awesome.

You mean the Sky?

That coupe is just as bad looking as the roadster Solstice. The G5 looks better I think. Still, its a good move on GM's part, should pan out well.

 

[Kent]

I agree with Azuremen. 👍
The G5 would be my choice between those two.
In fact, when I'm done with my Corolla that G5 with RWD is going to be on the top of my priority test list. 👍
It's going to be an interesting day when that G5 gets tested against all the RWD competition (not to mention the FWD competition in the same price range).

 

[JCE]

The G5 going RWD? That's awsome. I'm actually looking forward to seeing GM turn some stuff around. Now if only Ford would make a Focus sized coupe with AWD or RWD.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't see Ford or Chrysler getting in on the small RWD market any time soon simply because they don't have the chassis to work with. The new Alpha chassis that will underpin the G5 and G6 has been in development for a few years now, basically a shrunken version of Zeta, much the same way in which Kappa was a shrunken version of the Y-body (read Corvette). Ford could shrink the Orion chassis beneath the new Falcon, but it seems unlikely... Particularly when they would be undercutting the Mustang exclusively.

Keep in mind that the G5/G6 that will be going RWD will be slightly smaller than that of a 3-series, probably closer to a 1-series. Not too small, but not too big either.

 

[TopHat]

G5 - 1 Series, most likely with the 2.4L Ecotec tuned to approx 180 horses, and maybe the 2.8L Turbo from the Saab 9-3, with 260 horsepower. Probably starting at around 18K for the base model. Aim to be lighter than the 1er, and make up the difference in HP with that.

G6 - 3 Series sized, Turbocharged Ecotec, approximately 270 horses, and the 2.8L turbo V6, 300hp, and maybe the 3.6L "Hi Feature" V6, MAYBE turbocharged 335 () horsepower.


Just my .02

 

[Blackbird.]

Cobalt popped into my head at first glance of the G5.

 

[McLaren]

Cobalt popped into my head at first glance of the G5.

Well, what on earth did you think it came from? Just like nearly every other model GM offers, it's just another clone of another car from another manufacturer belonging to GM.

The only difference, different front, probably different rear, and a more "luxurious" interior....
And it will still probably sport the same 3-spoke steering wheel you see in every GM car.

 

[Blackbird.]

That's why I dislike GM cloning everything but re-badging it and giving it subtle differences, it annoys the hell out of me. Plus, why did they shutdown the Cobalt in the first place? If it was because they weren't selling... why would Pontiac make a clone of something that didn't sell well? (I don't know if they didn't sell well i'm just explaining my point)

 

[1X83Z]

Well, what on earth did you think it came from? Just like nearly every other model GM offers, it's just another clone of another car from another manufacturer belonging to GM.

The only difference, different front, probably different rear, and a more "luxurious" interior....
And it will still probably sport the same 3-spoke steering wheel you see in every GM car.

It's slightly thicker as with all Pontiacs. I drove a G5 today and was more impressed than with Cobalts I've been in - it was less rough and handled slightly better. Still an awful automobile of epic proportions, but less rough.

 

[YSSMAN]

That's why I dislike GM cloning everything but re-badging it and giving it subtle differences, it annoys the hell out of me. Plus, why did they shutdown the Cobalt in the first place? If it was because they weren't selling... why would Pontiac make a clone of something that didn't sell well? (I don't know if they didn't sell well i'm just explaining my point)

They never stopped making the Cobalt, and as a matter of fact they are one of the best selling cars for GM North America. They are solidly-built, moderately well-performing (the SS being stellar) vehicles that have been made for an affordable price. Chevrolet has never had a problem selling the car, and as a matter of fact, actually had to increase production of the Cobalt Coupe after the initial year of sale.

The Pontiac G5 was actually on sale in Canada before it ever came to the United States, available as a sedan and coupe under the name "Persuit." Originally it was GM's intent to leave the small cars to Saturn and Chevrolet, but with Pontiac's movement back towards "Driving Excitement" they felt it was acceptable to offer the G5 only as a coupe, and furthermore, only with the performance options made available on the Cobalt.

Sure, its a re-badge, but I'd care to argue that the Pontiac model looks quite a lot better both inside and out, and furthermore, it actually performs quite well in GT guise (well, it should... Uses the SS bits and pieces, sans S/C engine). Sure, you can't hide the thrashy engine and furthermore the fact that in some cases you're paying a $2000 premium over the Cobalt, but its a pretty decent car. Be in a position where I am, in which I have access not only to a GM discount but also an Amway discount, and they come off as excellent bargains.

...This all being said however, the Saturn Astra is going to destroy both the Cobalt (a good car) and the G5 (a slightly better car) once it arrives, and furthermore, the future for all three models is where it pretty much ends. Both the Astra and the Cobalt will ride on Delta II, a next-gen version of the chassis already in use by the Chevy and heavily influenced by Opel and Vauxhall, while the G5 goes over to Alpha with the G6, the Cadillac BLS, Buick Excelle, and Holden Torana. Chevrolet may get one too (crossing my fingers for "Nova"!), but that all depends on the Camaro and the Impala.

===

The point?

Yes, GM did a re-badge, but it actually turned out pretty well. Just don't option it up too much, otherwise you get into GTI territory quick. And we all know where my priorities lie when VW gets into the fold...

 

[JohnBM01]

I normally dislike Pontiac, especially after 2000 (except the Firebird/Trans-Am). Making that Solstice to be under $25K makes it even more comprable to the Mazda MX-5 Miata. People already had their comparison of the Solstice and the Miata. This may rekindle the comparison. As far as the G5 going RWD and midsize, seems pretty cool. I always say that you may want to go back to past styling if some of the newer products look like ass. The G5 is essentially (and I may be wrong) Pontiac's version of the Chevy Cobalt. The Cobalt was a pretty cool little car. And while the G5's styling may appear pretty bland to most people, I've always defended it in saying that "at least it looks better than every other recent Pontiac (except the sacked GTO and the Solstice)". Pontiac may get themselves a lot more people at showrooms when this lighter Solstice and upgraded G5 hit showrooms. Sure like to see what they would feel like at next year's Houston Auto Show locally. I'm not buying Pontiac's "excitement" they try to inject, but they may have a chance at making some automobiles people will actually want. Pontiac can REALLY bring back excitement by bringing back the Firebird/Trans-Am and not making the same mistakes they did with the ass-o-licious Aztek.

Now when I first saw this thread's title, I was thinking maybe Hyundai or somebody making a low-priced RWD car. Pontiac should have a lot of money roll in with these models they're scheming.

 

[Blackbird.]

Wow I had a brainfart... I guess I was thinking of one of the Cobalt's trims or something being discontinued.

 

[YSSMAN]

Pontiac can REALLY bring back excitement by bringing back the Firebird/Trans-Am and not making the same mistakes they did with the ass-o-licious Aztek.

Well, you can pretty much write-of the Firebird ever coming back, EVER. It depends on who you ask, but I think a lot of people realize that the GTO fits the "new Pontiac" bill better than a Firebird ever could... Plus, I doubt Chevrolet would let it go over with the Camaro around.

And don't worry, Pontiac will NEVER go back to the Aztek.

===

Wow I had a brainfart... I guess I was thinking of one of the Cobalt's trims or something being discontinued.

They did kill the Supercharged SS for 2008, leaving only the Cobalt "Sport" (basically the SS but with the 174 BHP I4) as the top-lined model.

 

[Blackbird.]

Did the Supercharged SS sell well?

 

[JCE]

I see them everywhere so at least they sold well around here.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Based on my past experience with the roadster, I'll skip it. But if they will release a GXP version then I'll reconsider especially if the Sky comes up with a coupe, then that IS my car of choice.

-> But if Toyota will ever release that highly rumoured AE86-II, the Solstice would be over-priced (some sources say it will be 'round USD$13-15K).

 

[Sakiale]

I agree with Azuremen. 👍
The G5 would be my choice between those two.
In fact, when I'm done with my Corolla that G5 with RWD is going to be on the top of my priority test list. 👍
It's going to be an interesting day when that G5 gets tested against all the RWD competition (not to mention the FWD competition in the same price range).

You want a cobalt with kidney... oh, RWD!! Okay, I'll take one too. Cause, the Cobalt SS wasn't RWD.. was it?

 

[Tornado]

I just thought of something:

Still, for a car that will probably be available for under $25K with the 174 BHP I4 and probably right around $25K for the GXP model (a power boost coming), that isn't a bad deal.

Under $25K is Mustang money. Even worse, $25K is Mustang GT money. And it may very well be Hyundai Tiburon money, too.

 

[JCE]

I just thought of something:

Under $25K is Mustang money. Even worse, $25K is Mustang GT money. And it may very well be Hyundai Tiburon money, too.

THAT is the point of the day right there. +rep (if it allows me *edit*nope...) I think the Mustang GT has set a sort of performance per dollar benchmark for cheap sport coupes. The Hyundai Tiburon should probably be $23~26k for its 300bhp V8 model--which makes it and the Mustang GT the performance/price benchmark for affordable sport coupes in my opinion. If the new Tiburon looks as good as I expect it to, we will have a definate winner on our hands. Hell, it may scare the hell out of Ford a bit for providing a slightly better value for money if Hyundai gets smart and sells a 300bhp model for less than $25k don't you think?

As far as GM is concerned they better have a 300bhp Camaro model for $25~26k if they expect to steal some sales away from Ford and *cough* Hyundai. God I can't believe we're mentioning a Hyundai product in the same galaxy as the Mustang GT--no one 5 years ago would of guessed that.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I've driven the Mustang GT and it wasn't remarkable as what most people illustrate, its an ok car. The next Tibby is the one I've been waiting for (aside for the AE86-II)!

 

[YSSMAN]

Under $25K is Mustang money. Even worse, $25K is Mustang GT money. And it may very well be Hyundai Tiburon money, too.

Well, I really didn't even think of that either. However, the big difference between the Solstice and the others is that the Pontiac will just be a two-seater (AFAIK), while the others are pretty much 2+2 setups. But performance wise, they should actually be shockingly close. Especially with the Pontiac's weight advantage, furthermore the decreasing power disadvantage.

As far as GM is concerned they better have a 300bhp Camaro model for $25~26k if they expect to steal some sales away from Ford and *cough* Hyundai.

Thus far I believe that the plan called for a $21-23K 260+ BHP V6 Camaro, a mid-line Z/28 (probably with the 362 BHP L76) for about $25-28K, and a top-line SS (probably with the 430 BHP LS3) for somewhere just north of $30K.

Problem is, GM is mum about the whole thing, as we're still a year away from production in North America.

I've driven the Mustang GT and it wasn't remarkable as what most people illustrate, its an ok car. The next Tibby is the one I've been waiting for (aside for the AE86-II)!

The Mustang GT isn't supposed to be an excellent driving machine, but its probably the most fun you can have for under $30K. The clunky transmission, old-school suspension, and otherwise "classic" performance is what makes it unique for me, furthermore good reasons why I'd pick it over a 350Z and possibly even the Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe... But not the G5 GXP Coupe, that is, if Pontiac sticks a V8 in there...

The Hyundai? I just want to see it without cammo. Then they need to convince me its "cool" to drive a Hyundai.

...And as for the Toyota, I hope you aren't holding your breath...

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I have a say on that:

The Mustang GT isn't supposed to be an excellent driving machine, but its probably the most fun you can have for under $30K.

-> Back when the RSX-S was still on the market, I had the most fun experience than any car below the $30K including my wagon! The [S197] Mustang is a decent cruiser, but not the most fun as you might imply. It feels heavy (like a ultra-cramped SUV), and your "butt-o-meter" says that thats not 300hp V8 (its more like a F-150 pull rather than a V8 coupe pull like the GTO).

The clunky transmission, old-school suspension, and otherwise "classic" performance is what makes it unique for me, furthermore good reasons why I'd pick it over a 350Z and possibly even the Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe... But not the G5 GXP Coupe, that is, if Pontiac sticks a V8 in there...

-> I won't say game over on that one yet, the [Z33] Z is still a better drivers car than the [S197] Mustang. But both of them are still far below par compared to the S2000.

The Hyundai? I just want to see it without cammo. Then they need to convince me its "cool" to drive a Hyundai.

-> By seeing the Genesis concept and the most recent iteration of models within its lineup (except the Veracruz and the Tucson), I'm more hopefull on Hyundai than Honda now (in the US at least).

[quote...And as for the Toyota, I hope you aren't holding your breath...[/quote]
-> Not really, I know the US market won't release it here, no matter how good will it ever be. I'll wait for the Philippine release instead.

 

[YSSMAN]

I understand your reasons, but its pretty clear we prefer different types of cars. The Mustang GT would only ever be overshadowed by a VW GTI if I had to spend my own money, but chances are I'd go with the Mustang anyway. I like the "don't give a damn" attitude it has, as Ford knew who they were selling the car two, and wasn't worried about it squashing the competition.

...Although, with the Camaro and the Challenger (both have IRS setups, extensive tuning in Europe, North America, etc) being here soon, I'm sure that the Orion-based model in 2009 or 2010 will change that significantly...

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Challenger, Camaro, GTO, Mustang, and...Tiburon V8!? I'd like to see that in 2 years! That would be a great mashup!

 

[JCE]

It feels heavy (like a ultra-cramped SUV), and your "butt-o-meter" says that thats not 300hp V8 (its more like a F-150 pull rather than a V8 coupe pull like the GTO).

I'm going to strongly disagree here. The Mustang GT pulls really well in the low rev range--and in my opinion feels like it has MORE than 300bhp. I drive them on a weekly basis since I work for Ford, to me the GT feels more powerful than the LS1 powered 2004 GTO. Thing is, the '04 GTO has more power but is slower to 60 than the new GT me thinks.

 

[TopHat]

But the Toyota would probably have some 1.5 liter 110 horsepower sewing machine, and the personality of roadkill.