Understeer Rattle Effect (Poll-Only for Wheel Users)

[Deadpool]

@Groundfish

I think it’s your FW being older. The fact that I had two wheels that both acted identical with these settings would mean my wheel is fine.

What your describing, is how I felt about when my wheel was actually broken. I’ve been running those settings for around 6 months then suddenly the wheel started acting up and became undriveable, it was fighting me everywhere with crazy oscillation.

Fanatec replaced it with a brand new one, and it drives just like my wheel did before it broke and with those same settings.

Mine def doesn’t feel “nothing”, feels similar to a real car. You can update the FW to see and revert back to old FW. I’m pretty sure this is a issue with you FW vs the newest.

The Fanatec settings are really only awful because of the -3 on DRI. The 1 for sens is too low as well, it’s damping the feel. I’ve seen others running similar settings to mine, slight differences but close. Some run 8-9 on sens, with a low FEI or closer to yours but with DRI off like both of us.

 

[Groundfish]

@Deadpool
What number shows on yours after it self calibrates?
Is your power led purple or blue?
All your shifts lights and everything work, right?
Mine is 335. That must be the difference if you are certain your wheel is not broken.
Because if it feels like what I felt it’s very broken.
Not nothing, just nothing good.
I flipped to my normal program and reran back to proper response.
Lol what would be funny if you tried my settings and your wheel was undrivable.
That would prove it.
I have no interest or reason to screw with firmware. Mine works perfect.
I tried earlier FEI at 100 on Interlagos DRI off still, and the bumps were a bit too jarring,
I like FEI 40 still with the new update.

 

[Deadpool]

@Groundfish

lol that would be funny and probably right. I’ll have to check my FW when I get back from holiday, but if you haven’t updated in awhile we might be on different ones.

When mine broke recently it was bad. Almost like someone was yanking on the wheel fighting me everywhere plus violent oscillation everywhere even mid corner.

 

[breeminator]

After some more time using it, I still think the new behaviour is a downgrade. To get the understeer feel back, FEI has to be increased, but that changes the feel of other effects, it doesn't lift the strength of the understeer effect alone. So the vital understeer information is now mixed in with other unimportant information and much harder to discern. My wheel now constantly rattles as I'm driving along, I have to have it doing that, or I can't feel the understeer. Cornering is now a chaotic mix of rattles, whereas previously it was smooth unless I turned the wheel too far and caused understeer. It's clearly possible for them to adjust the strength of the understeer effect relative to other effects, so why not just give us a setting for it, so if people don't like it, they can turn it right down relative to other effects, while those of us who consider it one of the most important elements of force feedback can have it stronger than other effects.

 

[Groundfish]

After some more time using it, I still think the new behaviour is a downgrade. To get the understeer feel back, FEI has to be increased, but that changes the feel of other effects, it doesn't lift the strength of the understeer effect alone. So the vital understeer information is now mixed in with other unimportant information and much harder to discern. My wheel now constantly rattles as I'm driving along, I have to have it doing that, or I can't feel the understeer. Cornering is now a chaotic mix of rattles, whereas previously it was smooth unless I turned the wheel too far and caused understeer. It's clearly possible for them to adjust the strength of the understeer effect relative to other effects, so why not just give us a setting for it, so if people don't like it, they can turn it right down relative to other effects, while those of us who consider it one of the most important elements of force feedback can have it stronger than other effects.

Dude try the setup I have it’s awesome. Your settings are jacked if it’s doing that.
Contact Fanatec or something, The effect you’re seeing is not caused by the game.

Edit, I am only trying to be frank, not rude, and discuss the wheel behaviors in a way that helps others.

 

[Zipperface]

BIG Thanks to Polyphony Digital. Finally reworked that painful rattle effect.
Now it feels much more natural, a lot better. I can enjoy driving now!
Its a more subtile effect now instead of this active violent rattleling.
Now its a joy to use driving & corner techniques that i avoided at all cost before the patch.


Thanks from me and thanks from the mechanical parts inside my wheel!

 

[Chevy Heavy]

I never had this rattle you guys are talking about, but I did have a problem with my brake pedal that they addressed in this update also. About 2 weeks ago my ABS light started blinking when my foot wasn't on the brake. Then I noticed on the hud that a small very small amount of brake was being applied also. I figured that maybe the bushings on the loadcell had settled and somehow changed the dead zone. Did anyone else have this problem? Apparently others have because they adjusted the dead zone for both gas and brake. Was really bugging me because my PC wasn't detecting the wheel and I couldn't manually adjust it. I was ready to start messing with changing drivers.

 

[VBR]

I never had this rattle you guys are talking about...

Driving race cars on race tyres, I've hardly ever felt it. Driving road cars on road tyres, it's pretty much all you feel when cornering on the limit. Try a stock Ferrari Italia 458 on sports hard at Suzuka - the esses are a nightmare.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

Driving race cars on race tyres, I've hardly ever felt it. Driving road cars on road tyres, it's pretty much all you feel when cornering on the limit. Try a stock Ferrari Italia 458 on sports hard at Suzuka - the esses are a nightmare.

I've driven cars on sport and comfort tires in lobbies with friends and never experienced that. I use a CSL on stock settings. Maybe changing certain settings contributed to that behavior or I was just lucky. Just as I had the brake problem which was a real PITA and prevented me from being competitive. I'm just glad they addressed these problems so we can enjoy the game again.

 

[andrewhake]

I never had this rattle you guys are talking about, but I did have a problem with my brake pedal that they addressed in this update also. About 2 weeks ago my ABS light started blinking when my foot wasn't on the brake. Then I noticed on the hud that a small very small amount of brake was being applied also. I figured that maybe the bushings on the loadcell had settled and somehow changed the dead zone. Did anyone else have this problem? Apparently others have because they adjusted the dead zone for both gas and brake. Was really bugging me because my PC wasn't detecting the wheel and I couldn't manually adjust it. I was ready to start messing with changing drivers.

Yeah I saw this issue a few times on the CSL Elite pedals when they were set to Auto Min/Max. Only had this issue temporarily though, and when adjusting the Min/Max manually I didn't have the issue.

Good to see they have addressed it though.

 

[VBR]

I've driven cars on sport and comfort tires in lobbies with friends and never experienced that. I use a CSL on stock settings. Maybe changing certain settings contributed to that behavior or I was just lucky. Just as I had the brake problem which was a real PITA and prevented me from being competitive. I'm just glad they addressed these problems so we can enjoy the game again.

I believe you, I just find it surprising. Maybe it really is a bug after all & not an intended effect if some people are genuinely not feeling it...

 

[Deadpool]

I believe you, I just find it surprising. Maybe it really is a bug after all & not an intended effect if some people are genuinely not feeling it...

Could be a matter of his settings being too light to cause it. Or he’s not pushing as hard. I know it’s only really a issue when pushing, it mostly happens to me with trail braking on corner entry. Might be settings/driving style.

 

[Groundfish]

I've driven cars on sport and comfort tires in lobbies with friends and never experienced that. I use a CSL on stock settings. Maybe changing certain settings contributed to that behavior or I was just lucky. Just as I had the brake problem which was a real PITA and prevented me from being competitive. I'm just glad they addressed these problems so we can enjoy the game again.

This. STOCK settings. Way better than what some of these people here have advocated for csl elite. Fanatec tells right in their literature on that wheel they reccomend leaving those at 100 and if the user finds wheel too heavy or something adjusting strength in game.
Strange how you are a fast driver and left the thing stock and didn’t experience an issue. Of course now folks here will try to tell you what you have experienced in your own home playing a video game is not the case, or how something is wrong with that, or now LMAO that you don’t know how to drive, although they have never raced you, which I have. How toxic is that?
Fanatec designed the product, I listen to them, and it’s a really great experience using their product.
Maybe some people have a problem with others enjoyment? I dunno, makes no sense to me.

 

[Knukel]

This. STOCK settings. Way better than what some of these people here have advocated for csl elite.

FEI 50 is way too high for most games.

Edit: On second thought...

 

[Groundfish]

BS... FEI 50 is way too high for most games.

Mines at 70 for Dirt Rally 2 which is the only other game I really play, and works great, never adjusted it from the Fanatec reccomendtions.

::shrug::

Ultimately, I don’t care what others do, but for GTS I probably have more seat time than most here on t300 and on csl elite. I know the game well. So, I know what info is in there.
Turning down the spring or whatever it was above combined with the low FEI neuters what the game puts out completely on my wheel. That’s all.
I don’t care either way, but as I said before for someone without that experienc and who doesn’t know what the game produces, it’s better to leave well enough alone, or listen ONLY to FANATEC.
After experience with the game if a person wants to dull everything in it out that’s their choice. It’s just entertainment and nobody really cares.
Bottom line, the engineers making these games and peripherals know far more than the gamer does, it just seems to make sense to me to heed their advice.

 

[Deadpool]

Mines at 70 for Dirt Rally 2 which is the only other game I really play, and works great, never adjusted it from the Fanatec reccomendtions.

::shrug::

Ultimately, I don’t care what others do, but for GTS I probably have more seat time than most here on t300 and on csl elite. I know the game well. So, I know what info is in there.
Turning down the spring or whatever it was above combined with the low FEI neuters what the game puts out completely on my wheel. That’s all.
I don’t care either way, but as I said before for someone without that experienc and who doesn’t know what the game produces, it’s better to leave well enough alone, or listen ONLY to FANATEC.
After experience with the game if a person wants to dull everything in it out that’s their choice. It’s just entertainment and nobody really cares.
Bottom line, the engineers making these games and peripherals know far more than the gamer does, it just seems to make sense to me to heed their advice.

I have to disagree regarding listening to Fanatec. They suggest DRI of -3 which we both agree is garbage.

The rattle is especially a issue in the rain which requires getting the car rotated on entry.

In game sensitivity of 1 is dulling the information being sent to the wheel. That’s why a lot of us run 8-10 to get as much detail as possible. I find 1 to just be lifeless.

 

[Groundfish]

@Deadpool

So now we shift the goalposts and bring up sensitivity 1 which, in GTS it has already been explained by multiple users does not necessarily do what one might first think?
Now it happens in the rain?

Make up your mind lol. First mention of rain probs I have seen, driving in rain for me it’s pretty easy to lock the fronts and have the wheel go light. DR 2 is same thing. There is ZERO vibration however.

I like dri OFF myself, and tbh I have not looked lately at Fanatecs site. I’m just saying to people it makes sense to listen to Fanatec over most sources, and I have given logical reasons why this makes sense.

I dunno though, don’t care to continue this, next it will be in the VGT LM55 on dirt tires at Monza if you go sliding through the chicane there’s a slightly strange vibration or some crap like that.

 

[Deadpool]

@Deadpool

So now we shift the goalposts and bring up sensitivity 1 which, in GTS it has already been explained by multiple users does not necessarily do what one might first think?
Now it happens in the rain?

Make up your mind lol. First mention of rain probs I have seen, driving in rain for me it’s pretty easy to lock the fronts and have the wheel go light. DR 2 is same thing. There is ZERO vibration however.

I like dri OFF myself, and tbh I have not looked lately at Fanatecs site. I’m just saying to people it makes sense to listen to Fanatec over most sources, and I have given logical reasons why this makes sense.

I dunno though, don’t care to continue this, next it will be in the VGT LM55 on dirt tires at Monza if you go sliding through the chicane there’s a slightly strange vibration or some crap like that.

What on earth are you rambling about? Make up my mind mind? Learn to read. I said it’s more prevalent in the rain. I’ve been consistent from the start.

I never shifted any goal posts. Put down the kool aid.

The point of mentioning the rain is that’s a situation where the front experienced a lot more understeer than normal situations and it really highlights the issue. And regarding sensitivity I’ve done plenty of reading and testing. 1 is lifeless IMO. I get far more info from 8-10.

And considering your on a totally different FW to the rest of us it’s kinda pointless for you to compare your settings with ours. Just like us trying your settings probably won’t behave the same. Just like how my settings are according to you, undriveable on the old FW.

 

[Groundfish]

What on earth are you rambling about? Make up my mind mind? Learn to read. I said it’s more prevalent in the rain. I’ve been consistent from the start.

I never shifted any goal posts. Put down the kool aid.

The point of mentioning the rain is that’s a situation where the front experienced a lot more understeer than normal situations and it really highlights the issue. And regarding sensitivity I’ve done plenty of reading and testing. 1 is lifeless IMO. I get far more info from 8-10.

And considering your on a totally different FW to the rest of us it’s kinda pointless for you to compare your settings with ours. Just like us trying your settings probably won’t behave the same. Just like how my settings are according to you, undriveable on the old FW.

Can’t imagine fw reverses what the game does man. I said what fw I have. I asked you several questions you conveniently ignored about that.
But, I don’t give a crap.
Have a nice day!

 

[Deadpool]

Can’t imagine fw reverses what the game does man. I said what fw I have. I asked you several questions you conveniently ignored about that.
But, I don’t give a crap.
Have a nice day!

I didn’t ignore any questions. Please learn to read. I said I’m on holiday so I can’t check my FW, I just know I’m on the most current as I updated last week. Please elaborate on questions I’ve ignored.

When did you last update. And what do you mean “reverses what the game does” if you’re referring to FFB Sen it doesn’t, 1 is the most dampened value. Per GT’s own description Sen adjusts the response of the wheel, a lower value dampens/reduces inputs.

Part of the issue comes down to driving style and what each individual perceives as “real”. Some like a heavier wheel and that’s priority to them, others focus on detail instead. I need detail, especially mid corner. Higher FEI introduces a mid corner knocking/play that is unacceptable to me. I’ve tuned my wheel to eliminate that and give me the most feel for the road. I’d prefer a little heavier feel, but not at the cost of detail.

 

[breeminator]

Dude try the setup I have it’s awesome.

Because I have the CSW 2.5, I wouldn't feel the same thing with your settings as you do with the CSL Elite.

I'm going to revise what I've said previously. The new behaviour is fine for me for most cars, e.g. I drove the Gr.3 Citroen for manufacturers, and it was fine with FEI 60, that gave me a similar ability to feel the point of understeer as I had before the update. The optimal FEI setting seems to depend on the car. The car where it's all a particular problem is that dreadful AMG they have us driving for the Lewis TT challenges. For that one I need FEI 100 and it still seems like the car is sometimes understeering without giving the understeer effect, plus having FEI at 100 makes it rattly a lot of other times, at the same time as seemingly not always communicating understeer properly.

 

[Groundfish]

Double post

 

[Groundfish]

. And regarding sensitivity I’ve done plenty of reading and testing. 1 is lifeless IMO. I get far more info from 8-10.

Reading this here. I think this is a very confusing explanation of in game adjustments.
However it is plain to see that according to PD sensitivity changes the resistance to the wheel when you turn it.
This setting does not increase for example curb feel road feel in my experience per se.
Reading this, one interpretation is almost as good as another.
It’s almost as if just using the words torque and sensitivity a person would think they want max sensitivity and a comfortable torque for them.
In practice though, I think it’s possible by turning sens to 1 resistance in the steering itself at rest (wheel weight if you will) caused by ffb minimizes damping of the effects desired for best car control. I don’t think many people want a dull but heavy wheel. My wheel is definitely noticeably light when letting the car run straight and you can feel like in group c with soft hands the wheels being affected over varying road surface. With soft hands. One thing they have massively improved is the self centering force, at release there was almost none on my t300.
You would think you’d always want max sensitivity in any game definitely.
But with the explanations given, and definitions explained as they are it is confusing, and in practice the most information I get on my wheel is from 1 here.
On t300 I ran 3-10 in game for a long time, but I think some run 1 on sens and 4-5 on torque. I wish I still had it to hookup and test but pretty sure 1 sens with say 3-5 torque might be the same with very sensitive feel.
I dunno I just posted this because it’s nebulous as explained by PD.
For me, 5-1 gives the most info about the cars balance and tires grip with the most clarity on my wheel as it sits.
I am going to take some time tonight and change the in game and report back.
Be nice to make the thread productive in some way.

 

[John G]

View attachment 870610 View attachment 870611

Reading this here. I think this is a very confusing explanation of in game adjustments.
However it is plain to see that according to PD sensitivity changes the resistance to the wheel when you turn it.

It reads like sensitivity is actually more like steering linearity? I have switched between 1 and 10 sensitivity and they felt slightly different, but i couldn't tell you what that difference actually was.
However, it doesn't appear that sensitivity = detail, which i originally thought.

 

[Groundfish]

It reads like sensitivity is actually more like steering linearity? I have switched between 1 and 10 sensitivity and they felt slightly different, but i couldn't tell you what that difference actually was.
However, it doesn't appear that sensitivity = detail, which i originally thought.

Right. That’s what I thought, that’s what everybody first thinks. It’s natural sensitivity equals detail, makes sense, but if you read carefully they don’t define it that way at all.
I will test and just see on my wheel. Really seems like it’s more ‘steering weight’ as the first sentence reads, but linearity could also be in play. Just a steering weight unaffected dynamically by itself being there could make it more difficult to discern the other dynamic effects.
It’s clearly nothing to do with surface detail imo.
Read carefully also ffb MAX torque.
It clearly does not imply steering weight.
Seems to me it’s like a maximum level of effect the game puts out dynamically from car loading up impact etc.
It’s like a span setting maybe.
I haven’t gotten home yet to test, but obviously Fanatec is just one wheel. Diff wheels have diff strengths so if MAX is set too high and the wheel in use can’t produce that force it’s simply absent or clipped out. If that’s true the bigger number here that can be used without clip for a given wheel would give a greater ‘span’ of forces from the game for the wheel to try to resolve. Seemingly this would give the best resolution or ability to feel subtle differences put out by game.
My theory matches the lack of control I had when I tried the other settings. Couldn’t feel much steering sucked it was unresponsive completely.
I’m gonna play around when I get home.

 

[John G]

Yes the first line of sensitivity implies it's like static force. However that's not what i feel.
The wording around torque is a little convoluted. All i know is that at torque 10, i can barely turn the wheel.

 

[Groundfish]

Yeah, I remember that also on t300 I changed things higher and I was like holy smokes.
I think though maybe it may be needed for them to have that adjustability because of all the wheels being so different in strength maybe.

Edit @John G
So I goofed with in game ffb settings while running some qual laps for the Interlagos daily. I used two cars I have used a lot. 10 torque 1 sens is kinda dumb but drivable, 6 torque sense 1 is good but too heavy for my taste, 5-1 is my sweetspot.
Going the other way 1 10 is heavy steering but numb. 4-4 3-3 is a middle ground between the feeling every bit of the tires and chassis feedback produced by the game, but dampened through steering
So, on my wheel turning up sensitivity is absolutely putting more of the available torque in steering resistance, it absolutely in no way enhances road, car weight, suspension loading effects, it covers it up with steering weight, on my wheel.
It’s interesting to play with because it is gonna end up a preference thing. For me, for sport mode, where tire wear can be important I like every bit of info I can get, plus it’s most immersive for me in terms of my taste. It gives me the best feedback about the car and tires, but, that does come with a caveat for me,
It really lets you know when things are sketchy on edge, so pushing feels sketchy, to me.
Increasing the sens value, disconnects me more from the car. That’s all I can really say.
I really think torque is the amount of force max produced at any point by the game.
No idea what one person or another would call more real, I am going for the most information, and drive by feel I can get, personally.
At some level it is going to be personal preference, but I have a solid history of doing really well on tire wear races, so I think at least I have a handle on what the game is telling me. I left the Fanatec settings static today. I’m just pissed two cars default settings, the Mustang I set a barely quicker 32.5 than the AMG. Too slow, one of my friends is up pretty good on me .
Ultimately what you play well with is what you play well with or what you enjoy is what you enjoy.
I do think though that there is an objective truth here about what one is feeling when adjusting settings.
From what the explanation is from GTS I think it’s very close to what’s true (my take)
That’s my best guess from seat of the pants testing.
My result is in terms of road chassis and tire feel sens 1 is max. Sens 10 is less, on the wheel I am using with the firmware it has within it.

Double edit I tested in sport mode qual, because I’m not sure arcade is very useful, sport mode imo has best ffb, car behavior.

 

[dog_dealer]

GT Sport: Update Details (1.53)

- A [Vibration Strength] setting has been added under the [Controller] > [Vibration Function] menu. This setting is supported on peripherals compatible with the vibration function, such as the DUALSHOCK®4 Wireless Controller, and the Thrustmaster® T-GT.

finally!

 

[bigluke791]

GT Sport: Update Details (1.53)

- A [Vibration Strength] setting has been added under the [Controller] > [Vibration Function] menu. This setting is supported on peripherals compatible with the vibration function, such as the DUALSHOCK®4 Wireless Controller, and the Thrustmaster® T-GT.

finally!

The setting only effects the transducer on the T-GT. Understeer rattle is still there.

 

[super_gt]

Today for the first time tried my Thrustmaster T150 wheel with GTS and to my surprise I felt no rattle/vibration even once during understeer unlike my experience with T300RS.