Update 1.15 has ROOTED the wheel Force Feedback

[Greycap]

FFB 1.15: high dynamic range, light at low speeds, getting progressively heavier with downforce and speed, lots of nuances
FFB 1.16: uniformly heavy, very little feel

At least all the loud people who have very little idea about how power steering, which is found in almost all modern cars - including race cars - actually works, got their wish. Unfortunately it means that those who actually understood how big of an improvement the 1.15 FFB really was are now left out.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

FFB 1.15: high dynamic range, light at low speeds, getting progressively heavier with downforce and speed, lots of nuances
FFB 1.16: uniformly heavy, very little feel

At least all the loud people who have very little idea about how power steering, which is found in almost all modern cars - including race cars - actually works, got their wish. Unfortunately it means that those who actually understood how big of an improvement the 1.15 FFB really was are now left out.

What surprises me is that even at max torque 1 in-game the signal is clipping in corners. How is it possible that anyone wants to apply ridiculous amounts of gain before the "volume control"? This can't be intended?

I'm assuming they'll go back to 1.15 FFB but stronger. If not, **** this game. I don't care about anything else, but don't ruin a core functionality as FFB!

 

[FerrariF40]

Then PD needs to improve FFB to get same feel

 

[fmq75]

Very easy to complain now for all people with shiny boost kits of course.I assume they had a great ride with 1.15 but those wo don‘t want to upgrade (like me) probably prefer the old fashioned way (i do).And to be honest,i don‘t care if very lightweight feel is more realistic or not.I want to have at least the CHOICE to decide myself.Yes,1.15 felt great in cars with very high downforce (even with 5nm) and maybe some day PD will be smart enough to combine both.I hope so too of course.

 

[85dean]

Me eldest was on it last nite and I had a feel and it felt far far better,

I’ll get a proper blast this evening, I’d like to be able to feel the curbs again too.

I thought when the game first launched the settings were fine,

 

[Greycap]

I'm assuming they'll go back to 1.15 FFB but stronger.

That would be the ultimate combination for sure. We'll have to make enough noise somehow for them to notice.

Admittedly, it may have been a bit too light, but the basic idea was great. I was running my T-GT II at 9 strength and while it was a tad light at the lower speed ranges, at high speed it was very good and certainly seriously heavy. Now at 4 it's noticably heavier at lower speeds but nowhere near as heavy at high speeds - not good. The top end in 1.15 was probably close to what the wheel could put out which makes sense at the value of 9 but the low end was closer to 3 with the 1.16 scale.

If it was progressive so that at the full 10 setting, the low end would be 5 from 1.16 and the top end like it was at 10 in 1.15 it would be the best FFB ever seen in a GT game. The 1.15 was actually that already, just a bit light.

 

[Goshin2568]

What surprises me is that even at max torque 1 in-game the signal is clipping in corners. How is it possible that anyone wants to apply ridiculous amounts of gain before the "volume control"? This can't be intended?

I'm assuming they'll go back to 1.15 FFB but stronger. If not, **** this game. I don't care about anything else, but don't ruin a core functionality as FFB!

Yeah I don't understand what is going on here. Before this I felt like 1.15 was much too good and too different to be on accident, that it must've been a FFB update as well as a strength decrease, but now I'm not sure. Why would they make such a massive improvement a FFB and then roll it back rather than just turning the strength up for everyone?


I'm starting to wonder if they just have something seriously wrong with the gain staging of their FFB code and when they went to turn the strength down it "fixed" the FFB completely by accident.


I'm not well versed enough in how FFB work behind the scenes on the game's side to fully understand, it just seems a strange coincidence that them rushing to turn the strength down magically fixed the clipping and them rushing to turn it back up messed it up again. They might genuinely have had no idea they were even fixing anything.


1.15 but stronger is also what I hope they end up at, but I honestly don't want to get my hopes up. If that was on purpose I don't know why they'd roll it back.

 

[HGHTCH]

FFB 1.15: high dynamic range, light at low speeds, getting progressively heavier with downforce and speed, lots of nuances
FFB 1.16: uniformly heavy, very little feel

At least all the loud people who have very little idea about how power steering, which is found in almost all modern cars - including race cars - actually works, got their wish. Unfortunately it means that those who actually understood how big of an improvement the 1.15 FFB really was are now left out.

I promise you nothing changed other than the FFB strength

 

[Goshin2568]

I promise you nothing changed other than the FFB strength

Yes, I think you're right. But the key is, whatever internal limiter/compressor they have is set to much too low of a threshold, the dynamic range of the wheel is incredibly small even no matter what you set the max torque to in game. This is why the wheel just dies mid corner, you don't get any actual feedback, just strength. When PD turned the gain down, they did it before this internal limiter, which left a ton more dynamic range and you actually could feel FFB detail in the corners, albeit at a much lower strength.

 

[Greycap]

Why would they make such a massive improvement a FFB and then roll it back rather than just turning the strength up for everyone?

Because of the amount of people making a lot of noise about not liking it. The age of social media unfortunately means that the one who shouts the loudest is the one who gets listened to, regardless of if they have the slightest idea what they're shouting about. I have a very bad feeling that this was a knee jerk reaction.

 

[FerrariF40]

Yes, now it's **** again, clipping in every corner. But it's strong. Now we got strong clipping again.

****

How do you feel or know that its clipping…?

 

[HyperSpeeder]

Because of the amount of people making a lot of noise about not liking it. The age of social media unfortunately means that the one who shouts the loudest is the one who gets listened to, regardless of if they have the slightest idea what they're shouting about. I have a very bad feeling that this was a knee jerk reaction.

I want to hope it's just a band-aid and the new FFB is introduced when fixed.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

How do you feel or know that its clipping…?

The peaks in FFB strength are cut off since the game is already sending "100% volume", so all you get is a constant and dull spring effect towards middle.
It's either that or **** FFB from the start.

In other games, when experiencing clipping, you'd just turn down the gain in-game and increase the amplification in the wheel.

 

[Goshin2568]

How do you feel or know that its clipping…?

Because the wheel stops doing anything besides a centering spring and some rumble over kerbs. Turn 1 at RBR in daily race C is a good example. Yesterday, if you hit that sausage kerb the wheel would literally jerk. Today, the wheel is already giving you max strength as soon as you turn in, so when you hit that bump all it can do it rumble the vibration motors, there's no strength left for the game to actually move the wheel in response to the massive kerb you just hit.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Probably for the best considering the track limits basically force you to go off roading to set competitive times. But that’s another issue I suppose.

 

[Deadpool]

Yep this new update is garbage. There’s no feel on the limit anymore.

I don’t get why they can’t implement a gain system that allows DD Pro users to use the full 5-8Nm if they want, while allowing DD1-2 users the ability to take advantage of the full dynamic range.

Yes, the DD Pro had great details but lacked any realistic strength. This was not the case with the DD1-2 as we have a lot more range in power to play with. With in game at 9 my wheel was at 55-60 and felt incredible. I could fine tune each car. Now? It’s lifeless garbage.

They need a profile for DD1-2 users 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Tuna_350Z]

This is crazy! They have LICENSED product, Fanatec DD Pro and now it's having the worst FFB ever. I want 1.15 FFB settings BACK!!! I don't want fight with the car. I want the feeling what car is doing on the limit, where tyres are on the edge of adhesion. I was able to feel that after 1.15. I was finally enjoying playing GT7. Now we can perform armwrestling only. Incomprehensible update from PD. Awful way how ruin a good progress in FFB. Shame on you, PD!

 

[NikNakTobasco]

You’re all forgetting the TGT users. They had to revert it. Hopefully they can refine it and everyone gets what they want.

 

[85dean]

I’ve just tried my T-GT2 out for a few laps round brands and Spa, force feedback felt ok,
Settings were 8 and 5

My only concern is I can still drive over a sausage curb with no feedback at all.
Before all this mockery of changing it, I could feel the cars wheels actually lose grip, wheel slip and definitely felt every curb,

Now it just feels it has an infinite amount of grip on all corners then nothing at all.
The other thing I’ve just started feeling is the faster you go the heavier the steering gets.

Looks like I’ll stick to ACC a bit longer.

 

[one-eye-324]

what is the best ffb setting for a g29 ?

 

[PirovacBoy]

FFB 1.15: high dynamic range, light at low speeds, getting progressively heavier with downforce and speed, lots of nuances
FFB 1.16: uniformly heavy, very little feel

Perfectly summed up.
Spot on. Nothing to add.

 

[Veinz]

what is the best ffb setting for a g29 ?

4/4 is my personal preference.

 

[HGHTCH]

I'm willing to admit I may be wrong, I have no way of scientifically testing. But, with my DD GT Pro it only feels like they reduced FFB by 80% and then reinstated it with this patch, I see people talking about a loss in resolution or "feel" with this new patch but I'm just not feeling it.

 

[s0cks]

Haven't tried yet, but 1.15 was ok in terms of heaviness for me (on T300), it was just lacking so much detail compared to other games, but I suppose that is unlikely to change and was the case from release. Will try this when I get home, though I suspect I won't notice much difference as I don't think my wheel was affected by the 1.15 change anyway (still ran torque @ 4 and it seemed no different).

 

[mattikake]

Just had a play and it's pretty numb. Kerbs non-existent again. Like others say, there is no feel of lateral grip especially in the high speed corners. It's just a generic rumble when things get feedbacky which could mean anything from surface to fronts at the limit or rears at the limit.

So glad at least one of the leagues I'm in still uses GTS.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I'm willing to admit I may be wrong, I have no way of scientifically testing. But, with my DD GT Pro it only feels like they reduced FFB by 80% and then reinstated it with this patch, I see people talking about a loss in resolution or "feel" with this new patch but I'm just not feeling it.

Pre1.16 the Dynamic Range was way more nuanced. 10/1 felt almost perfect.
Now it’s just very compressed and very dull.
It’s just heavy and firm, there are still SOME Details but the biggest issue is the non progressive FFB .
It feels like a constant Force.
Heavy and strong.
Going in a straight Line feels ok, but as soon as you go through a Corner, there’s 0 Feedback.
And although I have to admit that it most probably feels Realistic compared to the Feeling you get in real Life just through a Rim, but the Chassis Dynamics which you would feel through Seat of Pants irl and which were felt in 1.15 are now completely gone.
Such an important Feature which added so much immersion is missing now.
The Game is still playable perfectly fine though, don’t get me wrong but I personally rather drive by the way the Car FEELS rather than having to rely on try and error.
ACC is a Perfect example.
It’s claimed to be very realistic.
And indeed it definitely FEELS very Realistic.
And therefore it’s very easy to drive imo.
GT7 though is very hard to drive just by Feeling because well, you don’t get much detailed Feedback.
1.15 with a bit more Strength would have been the perfect Solution which would have most probably pleased everyone.

 

[s0cks]

Just had a play and it's pretty numb. Kerbs non-existent again. Like others say, there is no feel of lateral grip especially in the high speed corners. It's just a generic rumble when things get feedbacky which could mean anything from surface to fronts at the limit or rears at the limit.

So glad at least one of the leagues I'm in still uses GTS.

This is how it's always been for me since release lol.

 

[HGHTCH]

Pre1.16 the Dynamic Range was way more nuanced. 10/1 felt almost perfect.
Now it’s just very compressed and very dull.
It’s just heavy and firm, there are still SOME Details but the biggest issue is the non progressive FFB .
It feels like a constant Force.
Heavy and strong.
Going in a straight Line feels ok, but as soon as you go through a Corner, there’s 0 Feedback.
And although I have to admit that it most probably feels Realistic compared to the Feeling you get in real Life just through a Rim, but the Chassis Dynamics which you would feel through Seat of Pants irl and which were felt in 1.15 are now completely gone.
Such an important Feature which added so much immersion is missing now.
The Game is still playable perfectly fine though, don’t get me wrong but I personally rather drive by the way the Car FEELS rather than having to rely on try and error.
ACC is a Perfect example.
It’s claimed to be very realistic.
And indeed it definitely FEELS very Realistic.
And therefore it’s very easy to drive imo.
GT7 though is very hard to drive just by Feeling because well, you don’t get much detailed Feedback.
1.15 with a bit more Strength would have been the perfect Solution which would have most probably pleased everyone.

I will take your word for it, perhaps my setting has gotten in the way, but it has always felt as lifeless for me as it does now

 

[Veinz]

The Tomahawk feels much easier on controller now too.

 

[fmq75]

Pre1.16 the Dynamic Range was way more nuanced. 10/1 felt almost perfect.
Now it’s just very compressed and very dull.
It’s just heavy and firm, there are still SOME Details but the biggest issue is the non progressive FFB .
It feels like a constant Force.
Heavy and strong.
Going in a straight Line feels ok, but as soon as you go through a Corner, there’s 0 Feedback.
And although I have to admit that it most probably feels Realistic compared to the Feeling you get in real Life just through a Rim, but the Chassis Dynamics which you would feel through Seat of Pants irl and which were felt in 1.15 are now completely gone.
Such an important Feature which added so much immersion is missing now.
The Game is still playable perfectly fine though, don’t get me wrong but I personally rather drive by the way the Car FEELS rather than having to rely on try and error.
ACC is a Perfect example.
It’s claimed to be very realistic.
And indeed it definitely FEELS very Realistic.
And therefore it’s very easy to drive imo.
GT7 though is very hard to drive just by Feeling because well, you don’t get much detailed Feedback.
1.15 with a bit more Strength would have been the perfect Solution which would have most probably pleased everyone.

Now that you mention ACC: yes,the FFB is far superior but also definitely on the heavy side.You FEEL the cars weight (i love it) unless…of course…you set it much lighter yourself.