Update 1.15 has ROOTED the wheel Force Feedback

[sh33p]

Does anyone actually believe Kaz's release regarding the FBB?


The update clearly made unintentional changes to the FBB settings and has ruined it for most of the player base but it was either a mistake or a bug and I personally I think the statement was yet another face saving statement trying to cover up PD's incompetence.

Reason:
This issue was not addressed BEFORE the update, there is no mention of this in the patch notes, no specific reasons within the statement and the statement came well after the complaining started.
If there really was an issue with GT7 that was causing injury's, most companies would put out an urgent message to all players and a very quick patch to address the issue..
When you consider the pre-sales marketing of this game (Initially said PS5 only, sold as a return to former GT glory, the currency drop update message and the new tracks -> new layouts lie) It makes me sad to think Kaz has become a massive lier and I has lost nearly all trust from PD now and struggle to believe anything they say...

 

[Colin Lawless]

Same on Fanatec GT DD, you can't feel what the wheels are doing at all.

I can't imagine it was tested at all or the person who cleared it to be rolled out knowing it was going to ruin the feeling on their branded wheels needs to be fired immediately.

Exactly the same! It feels awful now! Not enough feedback to feel whats going on, and i have turned everything all the way up and it feels so weak! Not happy at all about this.

 

[Bojador]

Does anyone actually believe Kaz's release regarding the FBB?


The update clearly made unintentional changes to the FBB settings and has ruined it for most of the player base but it was either a mistake or a bug and I personally I think the statement was yet another face saving statement trying to cover up PD's incompetence.

Reason:
This issue was not addressed BEFORE the update, there is no mention of this in the patch notes, no specific reasons within the statement and the statement came well after the complaining started.
If there really was an issue with GT7 that was causing injury's, most companies would put out an urgent message to all players and a very quick patch to address the issue..
When you consider the pre-sales marketing of this game (Initially said PS5 only, sold as a return to former GT glory, the currency drop update message and the new tracks -> new layouts lie) It makes me sad to think Kaz has become a massive lier and I has lost nearly all trust from PD now and struggle to believe anything they say...

They did skip update 1.14 so idk

 

[Colin Lawless]

Alright, I have a feeling this is going to be somewhat of an unpopular opinion, but just out of curiosity, for all the GT DD Pro and T-GT users who feel like this update has ruined their FFB, what max torque were you using before the update?


Because while there is certainly some actual negative impact from this FFB update, I have a suspicion that this is being massively magnified by the fact that a lot of you were previously running max torque settings that were way too high, and you'd just gotten used to the feeling of heavily weighted FFB with zero dynamic range that's clipping to all hell.


Pre-update, anything above 4 or 5 max torque (depending on your wheel) was clipping. This means that the high forces were being compressed in order to bring up the low forces. This increases the ffb strength on average, but at the cost of losing a ton of detail because there's no dynamic range anymore, you can no longer feel the difference between the high forces and the low forces. (For anyone who knows audio, this works exactly like a limiter)


So I suspect PD's goal here was to make 10 max torque equal to "the strongest ffb your wheel can handle without clipping" so that people would stop running like 8 max torque and losing all the detail in their wheel.

So, for people who previously ran like 3 or 4 max torque before, you should be able to turn it to 10 now and get a very similar feel to what you had previously. But for people who were running at 5/6+ max torque before, you're now feeling like the FFB is extremely weak (albeit much more detailed) because you've gotten accustomed to running a much stronger FFB than your wheel is actually capable of handling without clipping.

There's a reason high end DD wheels can do 15-20+ NM of torque, and it's for this exact thing, it allows you to run a higher average FFB strength without clipping all the peaks away.


So my question is this, is there anyone who was running a T-GT or DD pro who, pre-update, used 3 or 4 max torque? For those people, how does 10 max torque now compare to what 3/4 felt like pre-update?


I have a suspicion that it's still a little bit low overall, PD probably have too much of a buffer at the high end which is making 10 max torque now feel like 2-3 rather than 3-4 (pre-update), but I really do believe that if they bump that up just a little bit that this will be a massive improvement overall, and those of you who feel it's way too weak now have to come to terms with the fact that you have a 5-8nm wheel not a 15+ nm DD wheel and you were running your wheel way too strong before

I was running a 6 torque and a 9 sensitivity on a 8nm gt dd pro and was around perfect pre update now i have it all the way to 10 and find there is no slow corner feel from the tyres and may as well be an un powered wheel! Some cars were worse than others, i did the lightweight k’s races that came out with the new patch and I honestly thought my wheel had broke. 🫤 I really hope they fix it

 

[Kalder]

I was running a 6 torque and a 9 sensitivity on a 8nm gt dd pro and was around perfect pre update now i have it all the way to 10 and find there is no slow corner feel from the tyres and may as well be an un powered wheel! Some cars were worse than others, i did the lightweight k’s races that came out with the new patch and I honestly thought my wheel had broke. 🫤 I really hope they fix it

I was on 5/1 on a 5nm DD Pro and it was decent enough for me, now even at 10/1 it feels weak and weird.

I'm expecting this to be addressed in the next patch, hopefully soon.

 

[Gabe_777]

Typical PD, do people even play other racing games and realize how bad GT has become ?

Been saying this for ages.

Have they booted up Project Cars 1 on a PC ?

Different world.

 

[U2Edge]

Glad I found this thread. My Thrustmaster 500RS (via DriveHub) went from being solid when it worked (FFB would disappear randomly between events). Upgraded to the latest beta DH firmware and tried playing today and the feedback was totally gone. I’d feel the slightest bit of resistance when turning the wheel more than 90 degrees, but that was it. I upped the settings to 7/7 and still nothing.

The graphics bump from GTS to GT7 is nice, but GTS supported more wheels out of the box and force feedback was spot on. The immersion is what makes the game so much fun. And they’ve absolutely wrecked it.

 

[Heiminator]

T-GT user and it's been destroyed. I've tried a few different cars, obviously messed around with the torque and sensitivity settings and it's no good at all

They say in their blurb "if you have violent vibration, turn the settings down", why not just leave it at that instead of forcing the settings down to a level I can only think is equivalent to about level two pre-patch?

Won't be playing the game at all until this is fixed. What led to the 'addiction' to firstly GTS and now GT7 was the way everything felt when using a wheel, now I don't feel a thing. Time to test other racers I think

I think I'll do the same. Why play it when its been made worse through an update? Think I'll give ACC a go..

 

[PirovacBoy]

I think I'll do the same. Why play it when its been made worse through an update? Think I'll give ACC a go..

Don’t you worry, they‘ll fix it.
In the meanwhile I’d highly suggest you to play some ACC or the all time Gem Project Cars 2.
A long forgotten but still incredibly phenomenal Racer on PS4/5.
The best and most complete Console Racing Game ever imo.

 

[Silver Arrows]

There's something truly hilarious about this only affecting the brand of wheels Polyphony put the series name on. Just magnificent, really.

 

[ProfDoobverk]

There's something truly hilarious about this only affecting the brand of wheels Polyphony put the series name on. Just magnificent, really.

Nothing is surprising at this point mate 🤣

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Back to A+ in EMEA since the 1.15 FFB gave me such superior feel for the Super Formula in Daily Race C with a GT DD Pro.
I was A+ in GTS but lost it in GT7 - probably lack of skill but I'd like to blame the numb FFB while cornering.

Let's hope we don't go back to numbness!

 

[85dean]

I’ve wondered for a little while the force feed back was bad getting worse on me TGT2 now I can’t feel the curbs at all.

 

[HickOnACrick]

I finally got the chance to use the sim last night - been more than a week. I was very disappointed to find out that the hour I had to play was devoted to trying to re-calibrate the wheel after the update. I am running DD1 and podium with the torque key on. Previously, a 10-lap race with a Gr3 car was a bit of a workout with all the lovely FFB. Last night I felt like I was driving a magic carpet, not a Gr3 car.

My hour was up before I even got close to finding something that worked.

Gamers may love the update, drivers do not.

 

[ollochances]

it is a bit of a mixed bag. Depends what your previous setup was. I have T-GT with PS5. Before the update 1.15 my settings were 4 (torque) and 1 (sensitivity). Now its 10 and 1. There are some moments I can feel a kind of improvement over the previous update, but sometimes it still feels too loose and lifeless. Strange.

 

[ssj4vegita]

Since the update the FFB is a frikkin piece of $hit. Now my expensively assembled 8nm DD Pro is paperweight! F.. PD and Kaz this NEEDS to be escalated, just like the winning prize nerf. This is waay more worse than that, as people spent lots of money for the official wheel and they straight up went and made them useless! Now they feel like those low-end budget wheels which you can get for ~$100, with a wheel that costs starting from $700 if you just purchased the cheapest bundle! PD NEEDS to be teached to not mess around with peoples spending and expensive setups. They straight up made the game unplayable with the official wheel.

 

[Kalder]

Since the update the FFB is a frikkin piece of $hit. Now my expensively assembled 8nm DD Pro is paperweight! F.. PD and Kaz this NEEDS to be escalated, just like the winning prize nerf. This is waay more worse than that, as people spent lots of money for the official wheel and they straight up went and made them useless! Now they feel like those low-end budget wheels which you can get for ~$100, with a wheel that costs starting from $700 if you just purchased the cheapest bundle! PD NEEDS to be teached to not mess around with peoples spending and expensive setups. The straight up made the game unplayable with the official wheel.

At least GT7 is not the only game you can play with the GT DD Pro :/ Though I agree that this needs to be fixed rather sooner than later, also at 10/1 in game settings with the faster cars I feel the FFB pretty well (could say the details are an improvement but there's a big lack of overall torque, people shouldn't be forced to set the in game setting to its highest to be able to feel something), but the slower the car goes the weaker the FFB seems to get.

 

[thebanat]

They straight up made the game unplayable with the official wheel.

What is it about people on the internet that statements can only be made with absolutes. Just always binary - It's the best, or it's the worst. Nothing in the middle. The FFB has made the affected wheels nowhere close to "unplayable". It's different, yes. Not good enough, yes. Annoying, yes. But you can absolutely play the game, and pretty effectively. I'm having to run mine on 10-10 to feel anything, but there is enough information available through the limited feedback to still drive well. It literally takes 3 laps to adjust. I'm still top 500 in the leaderboard for Daily Race C, despite the lessened feedback. So it's not "unplayable". I'm new to these forums, but from my liimited exposure, it appears that GT7 fans complain about this game far more aggressively than is normal/necessary. Chill out, and enjoy the fact that we have access to the best graphics, gameplay, and ease of use ever. Coming from a boomer who first played GT on PSOne, and knows how good he has it now

 

[NikNakTobasco]

If you’ve spent the amount of money these wheels cost I think it’s perfectly appropriate to be highly irritated, while the copious settings for Fanatec users gives us a workaround think about the TGT users that have nothing and are left with a flimsy husk of their former hardware. It’s been a week now and nothing. This should have been fixed same day. If my company made a cock up as big if this it’d be rectified immediately or at least communicated precisely when it would be. As I would hope for most companies; a day late statement saying ‘we’ll try and fix it at some point in the future’ is an utter joke.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I'm dreading the possibility of PD deciding that the DD pro workaround is good enough and just not fixing this problem.

 

[thebanat]

If you’ve spent the amount of money these wheels cost I think it’s perfectly appropriate to be highly irritated, while the copious settings for Fanatec users gives us a workaround think about the TGT users that have nothing and are left with a flimsy husk of their former hardware. It’s been a week now and nothing. This should have been fixed sme day. If my company made a cock up as big if this it’d be rectified immediately or at least communicated precisely when it we. As I would hope for most companies; a day late statement saying ‘we’ll try and fix it at some point in the future’ is an utter joke.

It's an annoyance for like 3 weeks of your life until it's fixed. I'm sure you'll get through this, ahem, tough time. This problem only exists because kids are dumb enough to turn up their wheels to 10-10 and then get their wrists taken off. If PD don't do this, the company gets sued by some idiot parent. So it's totally understandable. And it takes time. You can't just fix something as nuanced as force feedback across 4 different wheels in a week.

 

[Monkey Man]

I'm dreading the possibility of PD deciding that the DD pro workaround is good enough and just not fixing this problem.

Naa... don't worry mate; they'll fix it.

They have to, especially having admitted that it's a temporary "fix" in the first place.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

It's an annoyance for like 3 weeks of your life until it's fixed. I'm sure you'll get through this, ahem, tough time. This problem only exists because kids are dumb enough to turn up their wheels to 10-10 and then get their wrists taken off. If they don't do this, the company gets sued by some idiot parent. So it's totally understandable. And it takes time.

This a gran turismo forum and a thread dedicated to PD braking FFB. So your first world problem narrative is misplaced and juvenile. It’s about communication and respecting your customers. PD have shown neither. 3 weeks? Where did you get that from, they haven’t told us when it’ll be fixed. Your 10 year old injured wrist theory is just that, we don’t know if anyone was injured or whether the 1.14 update had the potential to do so, again, no communication. Transparency goes a long way in earning customer respect.

 

[thebanat]

This a gran turismo forum and a thread dedicated to PD braking FFB. So your first world problem narrative is misplaced and juvenile. It’s about communication and respecting your customers. PD have shown neither. 3 weeks? Where did you get that from, they haven’t told us when it’ll be fixed. Your 10 year old injured wrist theory is just that, we don’t know if anyone was injured or whether the 1.14 update had the potential to do so, again, no communication. Transparency goes a long way in earning customer respect.

I guess I'm just old, mate.
Having run a company that provides services for the entertainment of teenagers, it's the entitlement that spending $70 on a product means people start expecting shareholder treatment, to me, is always amusing. Videogame studios are amongst the worst working conditions for employees, so I like to cut them some slack and refrain from calling things broken and useless unless they actually are. The FFB thing for me is a minor inconvenience. But thats just me. No hard feelings

 

[NikNakTobasco]

I guess I'm just old, mate.
Having run a company that provides services for the entertainment of teenagers, it's the entitlement that spending $70 on a product means people start expecting shareholder treatment, to me, is always amusing. Videogame studios are amongst the worst working conditions for employees, so I like to cut them some slack and refrain from calling things broken and useless unless they actually are. The FFB thing for me is a minor inconvenience. But thats just me. No hard feelings

These wheels that don’t work are the official gran tursimo wheels and most people are looking at about a grand of expenditure on top of the £70. If you’ve run a company I’d hope you’d acknowledge mistakes with a little more consideration than PD have. Although the company I work in is a relatively small business and we take any issues very seriously so it may be a work culture thing.

 

[thebanat]

These wheels that don’t work are the official gran tursimo wheels and most people are looking at about a grand of expenditure on top of the £70. If you’ve run a company I’d hope you’d acknowledge mistakes with a little more consideration than PD have. Although the company I work in is a relatively small business and we take any issues very seriously so it may be a work culture thing.

Again, the absolutes. They don't "not work". They just don't work as well. Temporarily. There is a difference, and that is my point

 

[Imari]

This problem only exists because kids are dumb enough to turn up their wheels to 10-10 and then get their wrists taken off. If PD don't do this, the company gets sued by some idiot parent. So it's totally understandable.

Not really, no. If the wheel puts out 5 or 8Nm, that's working as designed. It doesn't really matter what the software driving it is, because while you can do some pretty unpleasant things with snapping between both directions at full force it's still within the design of what the wheel is supposed to do. The force that it's able to put out is a large part of why these wheels are appealing, and the fact that it's enough force to potentially cause injury is just something that the user has to be aware of.

There's no real situation where Polyphony would be liable before Fanatec. And Fanatec seems fine with putting these high strength wheels out into the market and letting people use them as they wish. If Polyphony are deciding that they want to limit the strength of the wheels to avoid injury, it's not because of liability. They're not liable.

It's a choice that they might reasonably choose to make to enhance the customer experience, but I'd argue that the way they've done it does as much harm as good. You can have weak default settings in game, you can have warnings and click-throughs before the player is allowed to set max strength, you can do any number of things to make sure that the players know what they're getting themselves into if you think that's a problem. Anything that allows knowledgeable players to still fully utilise the hardware that they paid good money for.

A chainsaw is a dangerous tool, but it comes with warnings and instructions. The manufacturers don't slow the chain down so that it's safe even if people choose to stick their fingers in the blade, because then it wouldn't be very useful for cutting things.

An FFB wheel without it's full range of force still works, but it's crippled and there's no real way to uncripple it in a way that doesn't also open up the potential for injury through misuse. That's just the reality of having a powerful motor connected to a wheel that the player is expected to grip with their hands.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Not really, no. If the wheel puts out 5 or 8Nm, that's working as designed. It doesn't really matter what the software driving it is, because while you can do some pretty unpleasant things with snapping between both directions at full force it's still within the design of what the wheel is supposed to do. The force that it's able to put out is a large part of why these wheels are appealing, and the fact that it's enough force to potentially cause injury is just something that the user has to be aware of.

There's no real situation where Polyphony would be liable before Fanatec. And Fanatec seems fine with putting these high strength wheels out into the market and letting people use them as they wish. If Polyphony are deciding that they want to limit the strength of the wheels to avoid injury, it's not because of liability. They're not liable.

It's a choice that they might reasonably choose to make to enhance the customer experience, but I'd argue that the way they've done it does as much harm as good. You can have weak default settings in game, you can have warnings and click-throughs before the player is allowed to set max strength, you can do any number of things to make sure that the players know what they're getting themselves into if you think that's a problem. Anything that allows knowledgeable players to still fully utilise the hardware that they paid good money for.

A chainsaw is a dangerous tool, but it comes with warnings and instructions. The manufacturers don't slow the chain down so that it's safe even if people choose to stick their fingers in the blade, because then it wouldn't be very useful for cutting things.

An FFB wheel without it's full range of force still works, but it's crippled and there's no real way to uncripple it in a way that doesn't also open up the potential for injury through misuse. That's just the reality of having a powerful motor connected to a wheel that the player is expected to grip with their hands.

That's exactly the point.. Imagine that Porsche releases a new model that is specially built for the Nordschleife, writes in its advertising and in all brochures that it is able to drive the Nordschleife in under 6.30 minutes.. .. Then 1000 customers buy this car for say 400,000 euros. One of these customers wraps his new Porsche in the guard rails after 10 laps on this track. And then the Nürburgring GmbH reacts by remotely removing 75% power from each of the other 999 cars when they drive on their track. This is how all owners of expensive Fanatec and Thrustmaster steering wheels must feel at the moment....
And what also happened, users of the T-GT should be affected, but due to an "error" in the game, everyone whose steering wheel is recognized as a T-GT is also affected, e.g. users of the significantly weaker T248... That must have been a really good idea from PD.

 

[thebanat]

Not really, no. If the wheel puts out 5 or 8Nm, that's working as designed. It doesn't really matter what the software driving it is, because while you can do some pretty unpleasant things with snapping between both directions at full force it's still within the design of what the wheel is supposed to do. The force that it's able to put out is a large part of why these wheels are appealing, and the fact that it's enough force to potentially cause injury is just something that the user has to be aware of.

There's no real situation where Polyphony would be liable before Fanatec. And Fanatec seems fine with putting these high strength wheels out into the market and letting people use them as they wish. If Polyphony are deciding that they want to limit the strength of the wheels to avoid injury, it's not because of liability. They're not liable.

It's a choice that they might reasonably choose to make to enhance the customer experience, but I'd argue that the way they've done it does as much harm as good. You can have weak default settings in game, you can have warnings and click-throughs before the player is allowed to set max strength, you can do any number of things to make sure that the players know what they're getting themselves into if you think that's a problem. Anything that allows knowledgeable players to still fully utilise the hardware that they paid good money for.

A chainsaw is a dangerous tool, but it comes with warnings and instructions. The manufacturers don't slow the chain down so that it's safe even if people choose to stick their fingers in the blade, because then it wouldn't be very useful for cutting things.

An FFB wheel without it's full range of force still works, but it's crippled and there's no real way to uncripple it in a way that doesn't also open up the potential for injury through misuse. That's just the reality of having a powerful motor connected to a wheel that the player is expected to grip with their hands.

Agree 100%, sadly you always have to work with the lowest (IQ) common denominator in mind. Either way, I'm fairly positive this will be fixed sooner rather than later and brought up to the levels we'd all enjoy.

 

[FerrariF40]

No target date for the fix until now? Disappointing. Game is not playable for me in this state.