Update 1.16 Physics Changes

Have the physics changed in the 1.16 Update? - with poll of course

  • Yes

    Votes: 81 36.7%
  • No

    Votes: 72 32.6%
  • I haven't the slightest

    Votes: 68 30.8%

  • Total voters
    221
How can people feel the weight distribution effect ?
Whats the best way to notice the new difference ?
What am I looking for ?
Some ideas into how to help the people like me who say they feel no difference and what to compare it to ?

Explanations in a simple form would be must appreciated as I'm not the brightest and get confused with complicated answers.

Since you ask nicely :)

a) you won't find any differences driving in an analytic form and trying to compare car attitude and times as you drive like a "star on a reasonable priced car".

b) when people refer to weight shift and using it and feeling it around a track, please refer to videos of F1 drivers the Suzuki Liana.

Best way to spot it? If you've hooned a car around a track just for the fun of it before, do it now. Autumn Ring Mini is a good place. Just use the GT86 and swing the car around, overdirve it from corner to corner, chain those low power inertia drifts. It feels much more controllable over the limit and immensely rewarding.

If you've never done or don't like it, then cool, it won't affect "normal" driving in any bad way, so you may not feel it ever. But trust me it's there! :)
 
Yes.
There's no placebo effect. I drove the Mégane at Nurb GP in quick match many times before the update and now it corners better with the same tune.

DS3 here and I definitely noticed the difference.

Where in particular?
Turn 1-3-4-6-8-11-12
Do you have lap time comparisons to share?

What are you expecting to see, one way or the other?
Zero expectations.

OK, final words upon some more testing.

First of all, the poll should only have two options:
a) Yes there is
b) I can't feel it

(thread unsubscribed)
It's a good thing this discussion thread wasn't started by you then. 👍
 
Since you ask nicely :)

a) you won't find any differences driving in an analytic form and trying to compare car attitude and times as you drive like a "star on a reasonable priced car".

This answer's confused me, If I drive quick and smooth I wont notice it, but if I drive erratically ill notice it.

b) when people refer to weight shift and using it and feeling it around a track, please refer to videos of F1 drivers the Suzuki Liana.

Ok I understand weight transfer in real life cars, the question was meant for gt6 my fault should of said sorry.

Best way to spot it? If you've hooned a car around a track just for the fun of it before, do it now. Autumn Ring Mini is a good place. Just use the GT86 and swing the car around, overdirve it from corner to corner, chain those low power inertia drifts. It feels much more controllable over the limit and immensely rewarding.

So if I drive over the limit I would notice it, i'll give the gt86 a go but I had a car sliding about last night and noticed nothing.
But if you say it feels much more controllable over the limit, would that not effect lap times as it gives more of an option to keep the car on the limit which would make it rather noticeable to a lot more people.


If you've never done or don't like it, then cool, it won't affect "normal" driving in any bad way, so you may not feel it ever. But trust me it's there! :)

What do you class as normal driving ? Driving to the limit of car and track or just driving around casually.
 
Do you have lap time comparisons to share?
Yes
with the Megane Trophy 15th anniversary in quickmatch (Nurburgring GP) I normally race around 1:57.xxx . My best with a lot of effort was 1:56.776. Today, after the patch, not only was I surprised by the behavior of the car in the turns I mentioned before, but also by the laptime. 1:55.xxx
 
Yes
with the Megane Trophy 15th anniversary in quickmatch (Nurburgring GP) I normally race around 1:57.xxx . My best with a lot of effort was 1:56.776. Today, after the patch, not only was I surprised by the behavior of the car in the turns I mentioned before, but also by the laptime. 1:55.xxx
Thanks. If you have any other laptime comparisons to share, please do.
VBR
I wish PD would just release a proper & comprehensive changelog with every update (like SMS every sim ever does), then threads like this wouldn't even exist.
FTFY:D One can dream...in the meantime..:(
 
How can people feel the weight distribution effect ?

What a tough question. Been thinking about this for some time now (20 minutes’ish) and come to include it may require a brain surgeon to answer it correctly at which point we all get confused.


I’m 100% sure I feel it there’s no questioning that but I have no idea how to describe it to you. For comparison sake I do use a good wheel and without this (or a controller) I’m skeptical if I could feel the weight transfer but that’s immaterial. The fact remains there’s little doubt that I can feel the weight transfer all the time and it certainly feels absolutely correct to me…general observation, no commentary on the recent upgrade improving anything, I could always feel the weight transfer.


My premise for thinking a brain surgeon may be required is that our perception of things relies on how our brain deciphers all the sensory inputs we receive coupled with our life experiences. But realistically you’re not going to feel the weight transfer in a race game like you would experience it in real life unless you’re sitting in a hydraulic system that could duplicate real life G forces. So how can I feel the weight transfer without experiencing real G forces???...my brain is using different sensory inputs to come to the same conclusion which, I assume, is being translated via my wheel but I still can’t describe what that feeling is.


My best guess (and I still can’t describe the feeling the wheel gives me) is that I can feel when my right tires or left tires have more grip at which point I know the weight has transferred.


Take all this with a grain of salt obviously but do know that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 
Yes
with the Megane Trophy 15th anniversary in quickmatch (Nurburgring GP) I normally race around 1:57.xxx . My best with a lot of effort was 1:56.776. Today, after the patch, not only was I surprised by the behavior of the car in the turns I mentioned before, but also by the laptime. 1:55.xxx

well, normal driving by normal racing standards. Trying to do so as fast as posdible, as opposed to deliberatly ovedriving or generally trying to go sideways as much as you can.

it felt more like going between under/oversteer when going like that. Now you can 4 wheel drift and use the controls to manage weight and direction

(posted on mobile, excuse grammar and brevity)
 
What a tough question. Been thinking about this for some time now (20 minutes’ish) and come to include it may require a brain surgeon to answer it correctly at which point we all get confused.


I’m 100% sure I feel it there’s no questioning that but I have no idea how to describe it to you. For comparison sake I do use a good wheel and without this (or a controller) I’m skeptical if I could feel the weight transfer but that’s immaterial. The fact remains there’s little doubt that I can feel the weight transfer all the time and it certainly feels absolutely correct to me…general observation, no commentary on the recent upgrade improving anything, I could always feel the weight transfer.


My premise for thinking a brain surgeon may be required is that our perception of things relies on how our brain deciphers all the sensory inputs we receive coupled with our life experiences. But realistically you’re not going to feel the weight transfer in a race game like you would experience it in real life unless you’re sitting in a hydraulic system that could duplicate real life G forces. So how can I feel the weight transfer without experiencing real G forces???...my brain is using different sensory inputs to come to the same conclusion which, I assume, is being translated via my wheel but I still can’t describe what that feeling is.


My best guess (and I still can’t describe the feeling the wheel gives me) is that I can feel when my right tires or left tires have more grip at which point I know the weight has transferred.


Take all this with a grain of salt obviously but do know that I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
The question is though, is this a physics change where the weight transfer is altered and you can feel it more through the wheel, or has the FFB changed to make you more able to feel the weight shift that is already in the game? One is physics, one is FFB. Of course both are also possible. The distinction is important.
 
Well so far from what I've read, those that believe that there was a change in physics AND have provided a reliable test result are describing it as "minimal" "subtle"...

For me to say there was any change in physics worth mentioning would be if I had to change the tunes of my cars, even if it required a .04 change in toe, which I haven't.

So in conclusion IF there was any change after 1.16 it's barely noticeable so nothing to get excited about. Even the poll is showing it's inconclusive so at this point those arguing pro or con are doing just to prove they're right... Which is nothing new around here :lol::gtpflag:
 
I just took the Audi R8 LMP car out on Midfield and the oscillation of the wheel on the straights was pretty bad. Enough so that I did not want to drive it anymore.

Could it be the track or has there been a change that causes more oscillation of the wheel in a straight line?

This is one thing I have always hated about GT the wheel oscillation is a real pain and in some cars on some tracks is unbearable and has been in GT 4, 5 and 6.
 
Yes
with the Megane Trophy 15th anniversary in quickmatch (Nurburgring GP) I normally race around 1:57.xxx . My best with a lot of effort was 1:56.776. Today, after the patch, not only was I surprised by the behavior of the car in the turns I mentioned before, but also by the laptime. 1:55.xxx

So you gained 2 seconds after 1.16??? :eek:
 
It's definitely a sensory thing, very hard to describe. The feedback of body attitude is much improved for the way I drive, if nothing else. Nothing to do with FFB directly (I felt it without), although if there is a change it'll likely affect the FFB.

I don't get this idea that only physics changes that change lap times are the ones that matter. For me, the only ones that matter affect feel.
Zero expectations.
How are we meant to interpret the data, I meant. We already have one example, but I don't know what it's supposed to show.
 
It's definitely a sensory thing, very hard to describe. The feedback of body attitude is much improved for the way I drive, if nothing else. Nothing to do with FFB directly (I felt it without), although if there is a change it'll likely affect the FFB.

I don't get this idea that only physics changes that change lap times are the ones that matter. For me, the only ones that matter affect feel.

How are we meant to interpret the data, I meant. We already have one example, but I don't know what it's supposed to show.

If you by any chance downloaded both of my Yellowbird replays, maybe you can see how both cars perform when braking on 1st corner, the hairpins and the last corner, another thing to observe is how the Ruf enters the Dunlop esses and holding the left curve afterwards :) The 1.16 Ruf has lower final ratio, but cornering speeds are similar and lap time are very close, and I like the 1.16 Ruf better ( more predictable when braking and holding a line )
 
The question is though, is this a physics change where the weight transfer is altered and you can feel it more through the wheel, or has the FFB changed to make you more able to feel the weight shift that is already in the game?
That's a different question than the one I responded to. :sly:

Have only spent three hours racing since the update and that was with a car I've never driven before so I have no idea. tbh as long as they didn't make it worse and it didn't feel like that on Thursday (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/parcells-thursday-night-production-lobby-7-10-est.312319/) it doesn't concern me.
 
I'm a DS3 user, now I don't know any of the technical terms and stuff you using to talk about weight transfer and ffb and the science confuffle and ahhh it hurts my brain...so I'll just explain my experience since 1.16. I made a pretty average tune for the corvette zr1 C6 09 on the Nurb. Bumped up the hp by 50 or so, lowered the top speed to about 210mph, tweaked the suspension, slapped on some SS tires and removed an extra 100kg of weight. Right before the update I took it out for a spin on the ring, did 13 laps and I was averaging a 7.07 (I know its not impressive but then again I'm not a very a good driver). The tuned handled perfectly from what I've seen (since I'm a DS3 driver I have to use visual cues to know whats happening to the car). Going around the S's at the first sector I was able to push on the gas and accelerate through the S's with ease only letting off the gas at the thick curb. Now after the update, the change is subtle...but, my times had DRAMATICALLY changed for the worse (im averaging a 7.11 sometimes going to 7.10) and the car understeers like a mother:censored:. I'm applying the same inputs as 1.15 but I'm not getting the same results and I know the Nurb, I know every bump and line to take on the track considering I have 15,1972.5 miles on it.Oh and another thing, on the famous jump, the back of the cars lifts very high after braking, It never done that before even when I applied full brake and release the car was always stable in the air. Anyways, That's my experience with my ZR1 tune on the green hill.
 
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I drive mostly visually, too, regardless of control method. Learned it in GPL, where its huge slip angles made the lack of butt-o-meter feedback especially problematic.

EDIT: @Ridox2JZGTE I'll have a look at the data you posted in Motec, not used it yet. I'm assuming it can infer angular information.

Cool 👍 I haven't had much time playing with the Motec software ( got the free Pro version ). What I could remember from the Ruf drive on 1.16 was the last corner entry to mid corner, the car has some slip angle ( maybe little drift ) and the way the high lock rear LSD come into play on the exit to finish was quite an experience even on a DS2 stick :D I rarely had that smooth LSD engagement on comfort tires. I also had similar experience today on Diablo GTR and BMW 1M replica ( both on SH )
 
This answer's confused me, If I drive quick and smooth I wont notice it, but if I drive erratically ill notice it.

Ok I understand weight transfer in real life cars, the question was meant for gt6 my fault should of said sorry.

So if I drive over the limit I would notice it, i'll give the gt86 a go but I had a car sliding about last night and noticed nothing.
But if you say it feels much more controllable over the limit, would that not effect lap times as it gives more of an option to keep the car on the limit which would make it rather noticeable to a lot more people.

What do you class as normal driving ? Driving to the limit of car and track or just driving around casually.

Sorry, I quoted/replied the wrong post above.

Well, I mean normal driving by normal racing/playing standards. Trying to do so as fast as possible, slightly over the limit sometimes but just. As opposed to deliberately ovedriving, overspeeding and flicking the car into the corners and or generally trying to go sideways as much as you can. I think it really can't be felt "normally" or it must be very subtle.

But before, when overdriving/hooning around it was not very "realistic", it felt like always going between under/oversteer and there wasn't much you could do except try to correct and somehow get back, or crash.

Now I can 4 wheel drift and use the controls to induce, control, and prolong that, by what if feels like managing weight, with traction and direction. I can hoon around for laps and laps taking different approaches to the corners and generally having much more fun, always with a very good control and almost never going off track because I can "feel" (can't explain how though) the car move and it's weight shift and adjust accordingly.

Again, you may not ever feel it if you have nothing to compare to and have been doing "proper" driving/racing 100% of the time.

Cheers
 
For me it feels like this:
Before update - in a car with 60:40 weight distribution, the car is divided into 2 equal halves, front half has 60% weight and rear half has 40% weight.
After update - the car is one solid block that just happens to be 1.5x heavier in the front than at the rear.

It's a difficult feeling to describe, but you just sense that it's less artificial. The front and rear ends are no longer governed by a different set of parameters. They all belong to the same "body" now, and you can manipulate that mass better since it's more "cohesive".
 
So, uh... is this part of the new physics "update"?



All I did was park my car on the side of the road with two wheels slightly on the grass. Before this update, my G27 would shake. But not as much as this crazy shaking. (It felt like a FFB stress test or something.)
 
Cool 👍 I haven't had much time playing with the Motec software ( got the free Pro version ). What I could remember from the Ruf drive on 1.16 was the last corner entry to mid corner, the car has some slip angle ( maybe little drift ) and the way the high lock rear LSD come into play on the exit to finish was quite an experience even on a DS2 stick :D I rarely had that smooth LSD engagement on comfort tires. I also had similar experience today on Diablo GTR and BMW 1M replica ( both on SH )
It's very difficult to interpret the data, I'm not really experienced with it. The general noisiness of the inputs make analysing dynamic behaviour very tricky.

However, it can be seen in general that the car is "backing into" corners more with less steering input (i.e. less understeer), but requires fewer jabs of counter-steering input on corner exits. Time wise, it was nip and tuck with different braking points, throttle-on points and "oppo" getting in the way at different times. There was also a weird split-mu yaw oscillation (turn 2) that was intriguing, but not necessarily unique to this update.


In terms of the rotational behaviour, the export only contains yaw:
  • Generally, the yaw rate reading is cleaner for 1.16. That means the car is making smoother rotational transitions.
  • The steering input is more decisive, held more constant with fewer large corrections in general and much more very fine adjustment in fast corners.
  • The angular acceleration (first derivative of the yaw rate) does not correlate directly with the steering input in either lap - it seems the effect of the track geometry is showing through, as well as any noise in the control input. It's possible to say that it's slightly cleaner (smoother) in 1.16.
I tried to look into the yaw rate a bit more closely (frequency analysis), but I managed to crash the program... :dopey:
I'll have a go at setting it all up again to get some screenshots.


In simple terms, the data shows that the car appears more eager to rotate into corners under brakes, can be held at a given yaw rate with greater ease, and puts the power down more predictably at corner exits. Sound about right?

EDIT: attached the Motec exports for those interested.
 

Attachments

  • Ridox_CTR_Tsu_115v116.zip
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It's very difficult to interpret the data, I'm not really experienced with it. The general noisiness of the inputs make analysing dynamic behaviour very tricky.

However, it can be seen in general that the car is "backing into" corners more with less steering input (i.e. less understeer), but requires fewer jabs of counter-steering input on corner exits. Time wise, it was nip and tuck with different braking points, throttle-on points and "oppo" getting in the way at different times. There was also a weird split-mu yaw oscillation (turn 2) that was intriguing, but not necessarily unique to this update.


In terms of the rotational behaviour, the export only contains yaw:
  • Generally, the yaw rate reading is cleaner for 1.16. That means the car is making smoother rotational transitions.
  • The steering input is more decisive, held more constant with fewer large corrections in general and much more very fine adjustment in fast corners.
  • The angular acceleration (first derivative of the yaw rate) does not correlate directly with the steering input in either lap - it seems the effect of the track geometry is showing through, as well as any noise in the control input. It's possible to say that it's slightly cleaner (smoother) in 1.16.
I tried to look into the yaw rate a bit more closely (frequency analysis), but I managed to crash the program... :dopey:
I'll have a go at setting it all up again to get some screenshots.


In simple terms, the data shows that the car appears more eager to rotate into corners under brakes, can be held at a given yaw rate with greater ease, and puts the power down more predictably at corner exits. Sound about right?

EDIT: attached the Motec exports for those interested.

Downloaded the logs and viewed it in Motec I2 Pro :) Thanks for giving time to analyze the data in Motec. I think what you said about the yaw rate and how the car drives on 1.16 :
In simple terms, the data shows that the car appears more eager to rotate into corners under brakes, can be held at a given yaw rate with greater ease, and puts the power down more predictably at corner exits. Sound about right?

are spot on. I saw the yaw rate reading when played, the 1.15 readings is not as smooth as 1.16. Played the animation under gauges/driver general tab with both logs loaded ( 1.15 vs 1.16 ), very cool to watch the throttle, RPM and and steer angle as well as G's in one place during playback :P

Steered angle component needs to be set to auto to get proper animation when played - got to properties / F5, set scale mode to auto scale, also set polarity to anti clockwise to get proper rotation.

RUF115vs116snap.JPG
 
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So I put some figures together. First up, the steering angle vs. yaw rate and yaw acceleration. Yaw acceleration is calculated as the derivative of the yaw rate (with respect to time), filtered down to 3 Hz. The reasoning behind that will be explained later.

1.
Graphs_Steer&Yaw.png

Here it can be seen that the yaw rate is cleaner. Note the steering input is more steady in the low frequency range, but has more high frequency adjustment in general. The acceleration looks a bit of a mess, and will be discussed in more detail later. At 1500 ft, there's the split-mu oscillation - the car gets two wheels on the dirt at turn 2 and a dab of opposite lock is applied - the oscillation is independent of that steering input. This is fascinating in its own right, but not relevant here.

2.
Yaw_FFT.png

Whilst that is enough to get an intuitive sense of the input / output behaviour, next up is an FFT of the yaw rate and acceleration. It is a representation of the contribution of each frequency to the overall picture, so it can be used to infer how stable the car is at a given rate of angular acceleration. It's in PSD mode because it gives a logarithmic scale and you can therefore see high frequency details better (but you can justify the power aspect by seeing the yaw as a physical result of physical inputs, much as you would for suspension movement and NVH).

The first thing to notice is the sudden drop off after around 4 Hz, we'll see in a moment that that drop off does not exist in the steering input - this here must be due to something else. Namely, the physical model of the car's rotational inertia. This is the reason for low-pass filtering down to 3 Hz for the acceleration (you can't get sharp cutoff without high order filters, and high order filters store energy and deposit it elsewhere in the system - lowering the cutoff allows for the knee to extend a touch past 4 Hz.) Anything above about 4 Hz is not a direct representation of the player's input, because there will be substantial stored energy in the inertial model. The inertial band can be seen to extend to about 15 Hz, with a few nodes and anti nodes along the way. The fact that it is the same shape for each lap is a good indication that the chassis and suspension setups are similar, and that the rotational moments are the same, on average.

The corners on this track last about 5 - 10 seconds. The combo of turns 2 and 3, taken together, add up to 5 seconds, but the steering is very subtle (steering via throttle and brakes, adjusting with the wheel) at that point. The region on the FFT corresponding to the corners, initiating yaw and then halting it again, would therefore be in the region of 0.1 to 0.2 Hz. Anything faster than that is, by definition, a correction or external influence.

It can clearly be seen that the oscillations in yaw rates between about 0.2Hz and 2 Hz is generally higher for 1.15, i.e. up to 7 dB (over double the amplitude). The same applies for the yaw acceleration. Beyond 2 Hz, 1.16 is higher, implying a snappier, more adjustable drive, up to the inertial band. Within the inertial band, the resonances are slightly more distributed in 1.16 (less peaky, more complex).

The noise floor is at about -95 dB power (~1/56000 amplitude), reached at 15 Hz - considered negligible.

3.
Steer_FFT.png

In the steering input, the story is much the same for steering angle as it was for yaw rate, less steering input at low corrective frequencies. The extra input at freqeuncies above about 4 Hz is obvious here, extending to about 10 Hz (a practical limit for player input). That clearly shows the player is interacting more with the inertial model directly, right at its sweet spot.

The story is different for steering rate, however, showing that lock is added on and removed considerably faster in 1.15 (peaking at 1 - 3 Hz) than in 1.16 (peaking at 0.4 - 1 Hz). This again points to stability and predictability.

There is significantly higher steering input at 0.1 - 0.2 Hz for 1.16, again implying less adjustment in the steering once committed.

4.
Yaw_Scatter.png


This shows steering input vs yaw rate in the left image. The correlation should be obvious and intuitive. Note that anything in the top left and bottom right is counter-steering. There is less of it for the 1.16 lap, the little loop in the top left in red is the split-mu event at turn 2. The top right and bottom left extremes are slow corners, and faster corners inhabit the vertical zone in the middle. That exemplifies the balancing role that steering has at high speeds, a wide range of steering inputs generate / sustain similar yaw rates.

The second image is showing the semi-equivalence of yaw rate and lateral force. For inertia consideration, we want yaw rate only. It should be clear the total grip hasn't changed. The almost vertical lines are fast corners, and the s-shaped lines are the slower corners. Again, this should be intuitive from the definition of lateral g force.

5.
Steer_angle_map.png

This map shows steering angle over the track, 1.16 is the inner trace. The smoother input, especially at corner entry, is obvous.

6.
Steer_speed_map.png

This map shows steering speed, 1.16 inner again. Red is adding lock (away from centre), blue is removing it (return to centre). It is intended to show the rate that the steering is being worked, and changes in direction / intent with the inputs also. Again, corner entries result in fewer changes in direction and slower steering speeds (less intense colours). Corner exits also have slower steering input, and more frequent corrections. Fast corners have much finer movement, at a much higher frequency, generally. The final corner has that characteristic "four-wheel-drift sawing" all the way around in 1.16.
All of this implies greater feedback of the car's attitude, in order that the controls are so much more precise.

The final two images, below as thumbnails, are only for interest.

The first, the yaw acceleration vs. steering angle, has its lines coloured according to steering speed (1.16 only). So you can see the two diagonals that adding (red) and removing (blue) lock form. The green vertical bars represent yaw contributions from inputs other than steering during hard cornering - slow cornering speeds further out at each side, faster speeds closer to the centre.

The last image shows the traction circle. Clearly, there is no extra grip, but the excursions in peak lateral load are slightly higher on occasion in 1.16 despite that. Also, more braking (vertical crossing lines) is performed at higher yaw rates, implying greater control and / or stability.

Yaw_Steer_rates.png friction_circle.png


The only real conclusion is that the car was in better control in 1.16 vs. 1.15. The perception in-game is one of a better understanding of what the car body is doing, and the control inputs and resulting car behaviour above reflect that. It's possible this is the "MR fix" being rolled out to all other cars, whatever that fix was.

Motec's i2 is a wonderful piece of software, incidentally.
 
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In order to properly look and tell if weight transfer and inertia have changed, you have to take a preferably soft suspensioned, heavy car and compare ride heights on each corner at different points of the corner (initial turn in, braking, mid corner, late exit, etc) between 1.15 and 1.16.
 
In order to properly look and tell if weight transfer and inertia have changed, you have to take a preferably soft suspensioned, heavy car and compare ride heights on each corner at different points of the corner (initial turn in, braking, mid corner, late exit, etc) between 1.15 and 1.16.
One place that can be seen is the rise and crest on the main straight at Tsukuba in @Ridox2JZGTE 's data, obviously that's pitch, but it looks as though the car is either heavier or has softer suspension in 1.16 - the pitch change is more exaggerated and lags slightly. You have to use the datalogger in the game, the Motec exports don't have suspension data.

The corners are harder, because you have to match braking points and turn in points etc., and I've had enough for one weekend.

Good idea. 👍
 
In simple terms, the data shows that the car appears more eager to rotate into corners under brakes, can be held at a given yaw rate with greater ease, and puts the power down more predictably at corner exits. Sound about right?

Agreed.

For 2 of the cars I used yesterday this is what was happening post 1.16 that wasn't happening on 1.15.

Did a 450pp lobby yesterday and used the premium '07 MX5 and Efini RX7 '91, we did some 450pp lobbys about a month ago and these cars, for me and my driving style, were pretty smooth and balanced under braking and turning in, but yesterday they felt different, with the rear end coming round alot more.

We always run the same room regulations and I used both cars with the same setups (I hadn't used these cars since the 450pp lobbys a month ago) and both were on the same tracks - MX5 @ Spa and RX7 @ Nurb GP/F.

We always do 2 races per track with reverse grid too, and at first I thought it was down to me not playing GT for a little while after my pedals broke, but the more I used the cars on tracks I'd raced them on before, the more apparent it became that something was different about braking and when turning in to the apex.

I double checked the room regs and the setups being used and all was as it was before. After leaving the lobby I was so convinced something was different I even double checked the cars to see if I'd changed anything with them i.e. wheels, rigidity (which was impossible as in the garage list it's sorted by date used and both cars were well down the list).

Not sure whether it was the front end biting more, or the rear being more unstable though, but the difference was easy to see/feel.

Both cars are 50/50 weight distribution (I think) and both were running 0kgs ballast and SH tyres.
 
One place that can be seen is the rise and crest on the main straight at Tsukuba in @Ridox2JZGTE 's data, obviously that's pitch, but it looks as though the car is either heavier or has softer suspension in 1.16 - the pitch change is more exaggerated and lags slightly. You have to use the datalogger in the game, the Motec exports don't have suspension data.

The corners are harder, because you have to match braking points and turn in points etc., and I've had enough for one weekend.

Good idea. 👍

I read the Motec analysis that you posted above, :drool: I may need to read it a couple of times to fully understand the graph and explanations, simply awesome :bowdown: I can only watch the animation plays and read the track reports + simple graphs. Never thought of creating those sophisticated frequency and scatter graphs. Thank you again for sparing time to get the replay and producing outstanding report 👍

Is it possible that PD made some tweaks on damper simulation as well ?
 
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