update 2.06 ninja physics edits...and interesting online/offline stuff

[nomis3613]

It seems to me that PD have been playing with the physics/tuning, despite no mention of it in the update log. Damper settings have much greater effect (thanks Onboy123 for the tip), what else do you guys think has changes? (please specify whether your comments apply to offline or online)

(all testing done with a DS3 controller)
Offline
Unfortunately I can't do any back-to-back testing, but dusting off this Fairlady tune at Tsukuba offline, it now felt awful. The problems are excessive understeer, a "snatchy" tail when it does start to slide, rear sliding towards the end of the braking zone and poor body control.

Next I ran this SL65 at Monza No Chicane offline. The differences were a lot less than the Fairlady (maybe because the Fairlady tune has such little damping?), but it still had more understeer than I remember.

Online
Now for the interesting stuff...this Megane at Deep Forest online felt the same as I remember. Then, repeating the test at Deep Forest offline gave the same results, both in feel and laptime (but I suspect how the tyres heat up was a bit different). Finally, repeating the Fairlady test (above) at Tsukuba online felt the same as offline too. If this means what I think it does... then...

I'm keen to hear what you guys think about how your tunes handle in 2.06.

 

[Onboy123]

It seems to me that PD have been playing with the physics/tuning, despite no mention of it in the update log. Damper settings have much greater effect (thanks Onboy123 for the tip)

Don't credit me for something that's not proven! It's only a small discovery for me who is completely new to this. And mind you, I was playing with fairly extreme numbers, so it could be that.

But if it's as you assume and that online/offline has been brought back closer in line…well that's brilliant! I can run my FF cars with even more mad spring rate settings and not have the car snap around at the slights hint of a gradient change! <--- Might test that myself, actually.

 

[Adrenaline]

Ya know... I thought my NASCAR tune felt a little odd at Daytona today... but I assumed it was just the break I took. I might play with some shock setups later on and see what/if I notice anything... My Yellowhat at HSR might be a better test base though.

 

[dr_slump]

They changed the force feedback -> same feels different

 

[CSLACR]

My problem with going back and re-testing an old test, is it's never as I remember it exactly.
I build tunes and love them, only to drive them later and dislike them. I've liked my tune one day and not the next, with no updates of any kind in-between as well. Maybe it's physics edits, maybe it's FFB changes, but I know the only common denominator is the driver.

 

[dr_slump]

My problem with going back and re-testing an old test, is it's never as I remember it exactly.
I build tunes and love them, only to drive them later and dislike them. I've liked my tune one day and not the next, with no updates of any kind in-between as well. Maybe it's physics edits, maybe it's FFB changes, but I know the only common denominator is the driver.

We have bad days and we have good days.

 

[trackripper123]

My problem with going back and re-testing an old test, is it's never as I remember it exactly.
I build tunes and love them, only to drive them later and dislike them. I've liked my tune one day and not the next, with no updates of any kind in-between as well. Maybe it's physics edits, maybe it's FFB changes, but I know the only common denominator is the driver.

^Bane of my GT5 life.^

 

[dr_slump]

I think nothing changed.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I know they've changed the FFB for the DFGT wheel and pretty much eliminated the dead spot so even without any physics changes, things are going to feel different for me. Same time the update came through I was in the transition to driving without ABS so of course, everything feels different to me.

 

[Blood*Specter]

I lost the use of my Blu Ray drive for the better part of a month. When I replaced it, I went to the ring to play with some of my GT300/GT500 tunes inspired by the current shootout. Please understand, I felt changes BEFORE 2.06 hit the street.

I understand what CSLACR means when he refers to memory. However, he as I am sure many of you has plenty of cars to sift through. And maybe even multiple copies of the same cars.

I clearly remember the feel of the game prior to my losing my disk drive.
And I was (somewhat) surprised when I felt a change.
I loaded the GT Academy software not long after and THAT really felt different but definitely better.

I use a G27 and I have not adjusted the feedback yet. I will remember next time.
But I would not be surprised if the wheel physics are helping the feel.

Can’t help but to think Academy and Normal Game software are related.
The engine sounds on Academy matched (pre 2.06) what I heard in the normal game.

ONLINE: Without being too dramatic, I'll tell the best truth I can. The physics and engine sound has been tweaked. The feel of the game has changed.
For the better IMHO, but it has changed folks.

When 2.06 loaded, the sound changed but little else in my view. I just think something was tweaked leading up to this update. Result? Some on "my" tunes (done without the help of tuners on this site) were somehow spot on. Others were un-drivable.

OFFLINE: Feels more like on-line however, LSD/gear ratios must be played with.
Traction seems a bit slippery at least to me. All of my off-line impressions are drawn via seasonal races, which I suspect are off-line. I almost never go to the practice mode or arcade. I will do seasonal when I am interested in them or if I need $$. The performance point and HP of my on-line cars prevented me from making a valid test with them in the seasonals the PP was different.

 

[nomis3613]

Great to hear everyone's thoughts.

I use controller, so the wheel force feedback changes wouldn't have been a factor in my testing.

 

[nomis3613]

Looks like I got excited too soon...

If this means what I think it does... then...

I'm keen to hear what you guys think about how your tunes handle in 2.06.

More testing has revealed differences are still present between online and offline.


For starters, I reckon the Deep Forest track itself is different. Offline, the bumps/camber throws you around a bit but you can basically punch on through and the overall driving line will end up close to what you intend (like a jumbo jet in turbulance- sure it gets thrown around but the overall path is in the right direction). But online, the rear is far more affected by these things and you really need to nurse some cars to keep them pointing in the right direction. The difference is the same as I experienced a while back one of Trial Mountain's corners. While Deep Forest was a lot more scary online, surprisingly the laptimes online and offline were about the same.

Even on flat and smooth tracks, offline can still have more stability/understeer than online (less difference than in the past, though). To me, it feels like the have a lot less rotational inertia online, hence the reduced stability.

As I'm playing with more cars, I'm finding that damper settings have much greater effect than pre-2.06. Onboy123, your theory is 200% confirmed

 

[Lambob]

every patch is a new GT5 game.

 

[Taz69]

So what is Onboy123s new theory. How are dampeners acting on the 2.06 update. Closer together larger spread. Higher settings more grip or lower settings more grip. Any explination would be great

 

[Johnnypenso]

So what is Onboy123s new theory. How are dampeners acting on the 2.06 update. Closer together larger spread. Higher settings more grip or lower settings more grip. Any explination would be great

I second that...

 

[Onboy123]

I second that...

The "theory" is that the damper adjustments can be felt easier…and higher values = quick response, less grip/low value = slower response, more grip.

I'm not sure how they worked pre-2.06, given that I've not really paid much thought to them, so it could all just be a load of crap.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The "theory" is that the damper adjustments can be felt easier…and higher values = quick response, less grip/low value = slower response, more grip.

I'm not sure how they worked pre-2.06, given that I've not really paid much thought to them, so it could all just be a load of crap.

So you're saying they might actually work now? 'Cause in the past I basically set them all the same and it never seemed to make much difference what I did with them.

 

[CSLACR]

The "theory" is that the damper adjustments can be felt easier…and higher values = quick response, less grip/low value = slower response, more grip.

I'm not sure how they worked pre-2.06, given that I've not really paid much thought to them, so it could all just be a load of crap.

So you're saying they might actually work now? 'Cause in the past I basically set them all the same and it never seemed to make much difference what I did with them.

They've always made a difference, the question is more, "what are you 'feeling' for"?

I also don't believe softer/stiffer suspension makes any difference in actual grip, it just changes the feel.
I'm not saying any of this is untrue or hasn't been changed, just that I've heard things like this (particularly about grip) before, and they were never true any other time I checked.

 

[nomis3613]

Hey Onboy, sorry for dumping you in the middle of a storm by quoting an offhanded comment of yours. (not sure if others realise, but my quote of "your theory is 200% confirmed" was meant to be totally tongue-in-cheek)

I haven't tested many cars post-2.06 yet, but before this update there were many cars that I couldn't notice any effect whatsoever when changing damper settings offline (not all cars, but many- and I realise there are some excellent tuners out there who have always considered dampers a key tool). Now, all of the cars I've tested in 2.06 offline have had noticeable changes in bump response and body control when moving dampers even 2 clicks.
(it is possible the effect hasn't changed online, I have played with dampers online much in the past).

...but...

Now it seems everything is moot (again!), because when I fired up GT5 to double-check something, update 2.07 was begging to be installed. But that can wait for a new day and a new thread.