Update 2.09 Online Physics Change?

[CSLACR]

Oh? i do run comfort softs

but still i liked the old physics better.

either way i found a way to fix the physics now. set grip to real and it is reverted to the way it used to be

so yea. don't assume
i may not be liked on GTP but i have grown out of my stupid ways of complaining about CH now I'm a far better driver so if you can respect that respect my opinion as well :/

Are you full of it or don't know better? Because, no.

Online yeah?

Yup.
I also tried all sorts of numbers on springs, ride height, shocks, arb. They still control bump absorption, but there's nothing you can do with anything in suspension to make a car rotate more or less at all anymore.

 

[MrGrado]

I also tried all sorts of numbers on springs, ride height, shocks, arb. They still control bump absorption, but there's nothing you can do with anything in suspension to make a car rotate more or less at all anymore.

Are you full of it or don't know better? Because, no.

 

[Hyper-Dan]

Yup.
I also tried all sorts of numbers on springs, ride height, shocks, arb. They still control bump absorption, but there's nothing you can do with anything in suspension to make a car rotate more or less at all anymore.

Interesting

Have you tried this on a number of cars ?

 

[praiano63]

My Honda HSV drives the same with 3.0/0.0 camber as 0.0/0.0 camber now.
My Xanavi Z drives the same with 0.00/0.00 toe as 0.00/-1.00 toe now.

For what that's worth.

For the moment i just confirm that the ride height can't be used anymore to make a car rotate.
Camber and TOE are still working in a lower proportion. Take a road car sport soft at indy superspeedway tire wear (fast) ON.

1st try:TOE Neutral //Camber 0.0/0.0

2cd try:TOE Neutral //Camber 2.5/0.0

You'll see that during the second try you pass faster with a normal wheel input. The first try show more under steer, need more input to correct the line and more tire waste because of this.
TOE settings are still working but need larger numbers to feel them. I always use negative rear TOE on 95% of my tunes now to gain rotation.

-So, for me Springs, dampers are working normally.
-TOE & camber still work at a lower level.
-The difference of ride height don't work anymore to help or limit the car rotation.
-Medium ride height is still valid to let the car more or less stiff working together with the spring rate.

PD did not fix anything, they just sweep the floor and put the dust under the carpet, shuting down some settings ,partially or totally, to let the game more "enjoyable" , more arcade and similar amorphics settings Online same as the RIP offline.

Good for the GTplayer that will continue enjoying the same game offline and online.
Bad for the tuner and consequently for the GTplayer also because it's harder or impossible to make some cars more performant or enjoyable.

Just my humble opinion.

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°

 

[MTLclllutch]

i have always found the offline physics superior. The tires seem to really benefit from any weight applied to them compared to online where it just seemed like no matter how hard you loaded the front tires it wouldnt turn in a consistent way. Now if they have finally done away with the different physics i will be in my lobby much more. On another note i just got Iracing and im loving every second so i think my gt will sit for a couple of patches

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I drive with stock cars 80% of the time, the rest mostly just power upgrade applied, never really need to touch suspension, transmission or LSD except for making replica tune, tuning shootout, doing seasonals races or A spec racing. Most of time are spent on offline practice run + arcade races, my online time are spent doing shuffle, racing and track days with tuning prohibited +tire restriction. I adapt to the car , so the ride height issue was never a concern, PD will fix it someday.

I can't wait to get online in a few days ( fixed my 1.08 update issue ), going to try cars from low PP, be sure to check out my posts on both threads linked on my sig, the room will be track day themed, no ABS, comfort only and no PP limit - anyone want to practice/race/drift in no ABS can join in.

 

[praiano63]

i have always found the offline physics superior. The tires seem to really benefit from any weight applied to them compared to online where it just seemed like no matter how hard you loaded the front tires it wouldnt turn in a consistent way. Now if they have finally done away with the different physics i will be in my lobby much more. On another note i just got Iracing and im loving every second so i think my gt will sit for a couple of patches

I drive with stock cars 80% of the time, the rest mostly just power upgrade applied, never really need to touch suspension, transmission or LSD except for making replica tune, tuning shootout, doing seasonals races or A spec racing. Most of time are spent on offline practice run + arcade races, my online time are spent doing shuffle, racing and track days with tuning prohibited +tire restriction. I adapt to the car , so the ride height issue was never a concern, PD will fix it someday.

I can't wait to get online in a few days ( fixed my 1.08 update issue ), going to try cars from low PP, be sure to check out my posts on both threads linked on my sig, the room will be track day themed, no ABS, comfort only and no PP limit - anyone want to practice/race/drift in no ABS can join in.

I'm not saying that the driving sensation is bad, it's very good after last update. I just say that it's almost impossible to tune some cars in the game now because you don't have tools to do it. Good for you if you drive all the cars stock, up to you. But i don't know how you race against tuned FF for example , stock don't even turn ....
Ok shuffle... everybody stock. Personally i prefer to let every car in the game more performant if possible and it is 80% of the time, or at least more enjoyable and adapted to my driving style, just to have more pleasure driving them ,alone or racing against other players online.

 

[CSLACR]

Are you full of it or don't know better? Because, no.

Interesting

Have you tried this on a number of cars ?

At least not in enough proportion to be noticeable while driving.

Only tried it on a few so far. It may be what Praiano said, just so muffled it's virtually nothing, but running -1.00 rear toe really didn't affect my car hardly at all. Just made it wander a bit down the straights.

 

[esoxhntr]

Definately more push online. The 'feel' of weight transfer is nice and the effect of hitting curbs is more pronounced -- whether its too much , to little I can't say.

I've noticed that I need to run more extreme values for front camber and rear toe to get the cars to behave somewhat similar to 2.08. Laptimes on Nurb are 3-4 seconds slower @ 500 pp

I drive 101% online [the offline portion may as well not exist] and love to tune & tweak, this update is not for me -- the added push may make some cars obsolete in my stable if I cant tune it out.

However, I think (hope) PD is not done tweaking yet.

 

[TomBrady]

Then you better never again post into this subforum.

👎 Ignorant

You mad bro?

 

[Lock2Lock]

Awww poor babies have to tune their cars. Cry me a river seriously. You won't have an advantage over everyone else that didn't spend hours tuning their cars, boo hoo.

Sometimes I think this... Even some of my friends are complaining. But at least it gets you playing again. It's like a new game. Not to me at least I have always tuned offline. It always seemed more realistic.

People will never be satisfied i guess. No offense to them but yeah

 

[Motor City Hami]

You mad bro?

Out with you Troll.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm not saying that the driving sensation is bad, it's very good after last update. I just say that it's almost impossible to tune some cars in the game now because you don't have tools to do it. Good for you if you drive all the cars stock, up to you. But i don't know how you race against tuned FF for example , stock don't even turn ....
Ok shuffle... everybody stock. Personally i prefer to let every car in the game more performant if possible and it is 80% of the time, or at least more enjoyable and adapted to my driving style, just to have more pleasure driving them ,alone or racing against other players online.

Your preference and how you enjoy the driving are the opposite of mine, I like to drive stock as I wanted to experience the intended stock characteristics of cars made by PD and I enjoy the adapting process to any car thrown at me. I also like the unpredictable nature of shuffle racing . I am enjoying both stock or tuned, tuning cars further usually done out of necessity for racing in events or shootout.
Tuned FF usually have a lot of understeer and hard to turn due to more power, check my tuned Civic Top Fuel on my sig link ( the real one is 380ps - limited for Touge shootout ), one of example I did tune my powerful FF car, it is drivable even with CM tires - did some arcade races with it. The ride height are only to replicate the real life car .

At least not in enough proportion to be noticeable while driving.

Only tried it on a few so far. It may be what Praiano said, just so muffled it's virtually nothing, but running -1.00 rear toe really didn't affect my car hardly at all. Just made it wander a bit down the straights.

I think toe and camber can hugely affect certain cars with certain drivetrain (FF and AWD ). My Top Fuel Civic EK has extreme toe front and rear in order to make it more nimble in tight turns, but above 200km/h it became very unstable on straight line. If you try my tune linked on my sig, then change the toe to neutral both front and rear, you'll see tremendous difference in cornering and stability. From my experience, -0.50 toe and 1.5 camber are enough to see noticeable difference.

 

[MrGrado]

I like to drive stock as I wanted to experience the intended stock characteristics of cars made by PD

You actually need to fit racing suspension to get the cars to a stock type of setting. Real cars have better dampers than the 1/1 1/1 damping on all stock tunes, real cars have some negative camber and real cars don't have 0.00/0.20 toe.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You actually need to fit racing suspension to get the cars to a stock type of setting. Real cars have better dampers than the 1/1 1/1 damping on all stock tunes, real cars have some negative camber and real cars don't have 0.00/0.20 toe.

If that is really the case, then why most car models in GT5 drive differently ( handling wise ), we never know if the stock default values actually what they are said to be. If you look at supercars stock suspension values, some Japanese sports cars stock values, then you drive them as they are, with only difference usually in spring rate ( most have same damper, arb, toe and camber ), then they would drive almost all the same or similar within the same drive train confinement.

Take Impreza STI WRX series for example, from ver I and so on, have a look that their stock suspension values, are they very similar in values ? then how do they drive stock ? On some cars, things are not what they seem to be, the stock values are deceptive on some cars. This is my opinion after driving most cars in stock form. Try the R34 GTR models, FD RX7s models, they mostly have the same stock values, but some cars drive differently ...

I never have really have any qualms with stock camber and toe, the cars drive okay on stock settings, and in my opinion, the cars real life characteristics are represented quite well in GT5. Compare R34 GTR to R34 GTR Vspec, the ordinary GTR is more prone to oversteer in real life, just like in game.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I am not really sure what is added to this discussion to say that the stock settings are fine. This is a tuning forum where people like to tune and make cars faster. The people commenting that stock rocks, are really out of place here. Right?

 

[Highlandor]

Differences and changes can definately be felt..

Problem is, people are not giving out enough infomation and are fogetting important variables like what track.

Some tracks need specific type of setup i.e. hard or maybe soft. Some are smooth and can handle cars being slammed, others need some height to clear bumps.

Take different cars too - try "playing around" with wild-ish cars like Renault 5 GT Turbo / Lancia Stratos - give them more power (250bhp +) and low grip tyres (sports hards), then try them on different tracks.

Changes can make a difference.

Even witha "planted" car like a GT500, I found alternating hard and soft settings produced a definate difference in feel, laptime and tyre wear on different tracks.

Try:

FR & RR = very hard
FR & RR = very soft
FR = very hard & RR = very soft
FR= very soft & RR = very hard

I also played with toe figures, on some cars increasing toe by 0.10 to 0.20 did make the car feel different.

Only problem I encountered - which didn't make any sense at all, ride height.

I tried a car with ride height minimum and then maximum too, didn't really seem to affect the car at all - I was expecting a big difference in feel.

It's obvious in 'feel' that the physics have been made more even, but taking into account the amount of cars, tracks, tyres, race regulations options (grip low/real, 4 levels of tyre fuel depletion etc) and personal preference i.e. driving style and sensitivty settings - any / or previous 'rules' tha could be applied to all types of car (i.e.drivetrain) in all situations seems to be useless now.

It now seems almost as there's a 'window' within the setup physics and if you get the car's balance / grip in that "window" - regardless of how you set it up, then the car wil be driveable (NOT 'best' - but 'driveable'), and any other changes don't seem to have an affect, because they don't need to as the car is now driveable.

The window gets bigger the more grip to power you have, and smaller with less grip to power.

So cars with low(er) / (ish) power and good grip have a big window, whereas cars with bigger power and less grip have a smaller window.

Which is why I found racecars with racing tyres almost 'anything works', whereas wild road cars with lower grip tyres need more work.

I'm still using 0kgs ballast and 100% power limiter, also, I use "FAST" tyre / fuel depletion online (95% of the time) - which is quite different to Normal or OFF as cars can feel totally different with 50% tyre wear, and the fuel consumption levels goes crazy in last 1/3rd of a race. Both of these, having an big impact on a cars feel, especially compared to tyre/fuel depletion off.

All in all, take us back to 2.07 please PD, then just change the tyre wear a little..

 

[krenkme]

I am not really sure what is added to this discussion to say that the stock settings are fine. This is a tuning forum where people like to tune and make cars faster. The people commenting that stock rocks, are really out of place here. Right?

Some just like to tell everyone how awesome they are and us tuning folk are idiots. You get used to it after a while

 

[Sail IC]

I to 99% subscribe to what CSLACR is stating.

I'm currently racing in a GT500 championship, me using a GTR RH tires. I like a more responsive car than most hence tune in more oversteer than most. Big problems of course with 2.09 as cars understeers much more than before.

Went about tuning using normal methods. Ridehight doesn't work as before, maybe even the oposite I thought, so I left it at 0/0. Worked mostly with LSD/negative rear toe and the rest of the suspension settings. Thought I made progress, the tune being fairly agressive.

Then I read what CLS wrote and compared my agressive tune for oversteer with plain stock, leaving the LSD at my tune though. To my big surprise there was no difference in handling or lap times.

I'm almost to the point that I think the whole suspension setting menu is disabled. Rear toe has been a very powerful tune but as previously stated, going negative only impact straight line, doesn't do anything in the corners. I also noticed that going softer on the dampers, going over rumble strips have less feedback in the wheel, but I'm not sure anything happens with the handling of the car.

This is very frustrating. I think the whole suspention settings is more or less inactive in 2.09. The only thing to work with is the LSD, breakbalance, downforce, and gearbox.

With 2.09, GT5 has taken many steps back in terms of being a "driving simulator". Its arcady and the suspention settings does not work at all, not even in a not reastic way as before which was actually not too bad compared to now.

Edit: I don't post often here but I like to think I know a little what I'm talking about. Dec'6th 2010 I created a thread that online physics was different to offline. First thread on the subject, and many disagreed to begin with. On Nov'28 2010 I created a thread that suspension settings works the oposite as they should, again first thread on the subject. So pls don't read my post as a newbie.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I am not ready to weigh in on 2.09 yet before I do lots more testing. I was able to improve my Honda S2000 in the current FITT 2000 Challenge. I ran the car stock at Grand Valley, a car that I know well and a track that I know well and ran 2:10 lap times. With my finished tune, I was able to run 2:06.1. Some settings must still be working to knock four seconds off the stock time?

 

[Sail IC]

I am not ready to weigh in on 2.09 yet before I do lots more testing. I was able to improve my Honda S2000 in the current FITT 2000 Challenge. I ran the car stock at Grand Valley, a car that I know well and a track that I know well and ran 2:10 lap times. With my finished tune, I was able to run 2:06.1. Some settings must still be working to knock four seconds off the stock time?

That's encurraging to hear.

Would you mind sharing the setup. Like to test please.

 

[Motor City Hami]

That's encurraging to hear.

Would you mind sharing the setup. Like to test please.

FITT 2000 Challenge Thread
Here are 13 new tunes created since 2.09 update.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=267280

My entry...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7798359#post7798359

I would encourage you to try Praiano and XDesperado's tunes back to back. Same car, really different feel. I doubt that tuning has been shut off.

 

[Tornado]

Awww poor babies have to tune their cars. Cry me a river seriously. You won't have an advantage over everyone else that didn't spend hours tuning their cars, boo hoo.

You mad bro?

What compels you to go into random subforums and threads for no other reason than to troll people having detailed discussions? I'm legitimately curious at this point, because other than the common immaturity level shared between each time you do it I don't see any pattern to it.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

What compels you to go into random subforums and threads for no other reason than to troll people having detailed discussions? I'm legitimately curious at this point, because other than the common immaturity level shared between each time you do it I don't see any pattern to it.

I've often wondered this aswell.

 

[Sail IC]

FITT 2000 Challenge Thread
Here are 13 new tunes created since 2.09 update.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=267280

My entry...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7798359#post7798359

I would encourage you to try Praiano and XDesperado's tunes back to back. Same car, really different feel. I doubt that tuning has been shut off.

I tried your S2000 tune at Grand Valley. Nice drive and managed about the same lap time as yours. What was interesting when comparing the next, if/when going in slightly to hot into the long right hand sweaper in the tunnel just after the second timesplit, with your tune the car entered a four wheel slide with just a tiny hint of understeer.

What I did then was to put in stock value in the suspension menu, but I kept all the other by your tune (LSD, break balance, ballast, gerabox). The car handled different. Slightly less grip, was about 0.7 sec slower, and if going into that right hand sweaper the car entered a four wheel slide with a clearly noticable oversteer, ie oposite to your tune.

This was good and I'm glad that I was wrong.

BTW, your tune was tricky breaking hard into the first corner, and it was easy to lose the car out to the left. A good solution I found was to change the breakbalance going on the start/finish straight to 2/6, and then change it back to 5/6 after turn 1. I thought this was cool as I done many races but never felt the need to change breakbalance every lap.

 

[Shlagem]

Well guys the 550pp praiano tuned 458italia feels different at trial mountain with the bacck wheels bigger tendancy to block out on heavy braking. I dont know but I never complained from that car before.

 

[Motor City Hami]

BTW, your tune was tricky breaking hard into the first corner, and it was easy to lose the car out to the left. A good solution I found was to change the breakbalance going on the start/finish straight to 2/6, and then change it back to 5/6 after turn 1. I thought this was cool as I done many races but never felt the need to change breakbalance every lap.

It's all about the corner entry in turn one. If you hug the left in the rising left kink, when you apply the brakes, most FR cars will slide the rear and vear left into the grass. You have to approach from the right and try to brake with the wheels straight over that hill.

 

[Darkrage1138]

old stuff, admins please delete.

 

[Lambob]

I tried something that I never tried before last night, went online, bought a new Lexus LFA, (never really driven it much before), and spontaneously decided to set tires , toes, camber, rideheight all to Zero value. I also set all dampers and roll bars to 1. Best road car handling I've driven in a long while. and lapped the 24hr Nur track in a respectable 8:38s at 505pp. as soon as I applied any change to these settings, even one at a time, the car became worse in some aspect.

just some thoughts, or perhaps struck a lucky base tune? I expected the car to feel sluggish, or roll about, but it just held as if it was on rails.

 

[dinno]

value of spring rate,lambob?