Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Jimlaad43]

I have to say congratulations on America for finally making Brexit not the biggest self-own in the 21st century

 

[Blitz24]

I always found it fascinating how the UK pulled out of the EU and immediately lost all ability to project its will on the greater world scale even though as far as I've been able to tell they didn't really need to follow most (any?) EU rules as a founding member with a seat at the big boy table setting policy. It's such a spectacular self-own that had immediate obvious consequences that the country still AFAIK hasn't even really begun navigating out of all these years later, no matter how many dumbass domestic laws the country passes that claim global jurisdiction.


And yet, despite that, so many in the US have decided that completely destroying its ability to project soft and strong power militarily or diplomatically is somehow going to work out differently for us.
Go ahead, pull out of NATO. Sure, close all the bases outside the US. Recall all the troops overseas and dump them into unemployment lines. Good luck carrying out any actions that require anything beyond lobbing bombs when you have to stage all of your missions out of Pearl Harbor or Guantanamo. Throw a pissy fit and leave the UN like Elon says the US should. Good luck having any say in world affairs vs the ability to push global policy and override any UN Resolution the US doesn't like right now.

Also, it doesn't help them keep Iran in check if they give up their Turkish base.

 

[Fezzik]

No, just one in particular.

I don't know. JD is making a strong case for being a big old number 2.

 

[Eliminatorek]

The US is tired of the forever wars. Many we started unjustly

We absolutly agree on that. But whole discussion is about stopping a war and standing behind the offended independant state instead of making alliance with offender with bertraying all the values and norms which Wester World was deffending since WWII.

The US is no angel but we are going to rectify it slowly by pulling back from the world’s problems just as many countries have been wanting for the last several decades.

We did - especcially when our troops were dying next to US troops in lands which were clearly zones of particulaly and solely US's economical or political influance or interest (Oil, Wapons, or global clash against China Russia or MiddleEast). See Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria for instance.

Now you get to have your wish. It’ll be nice to see Europe stand on their own and take the lead into battle.

It is still not the US troops going to Ukraine being on table - but economical interest (Minerals, Weapons and offsets) and keeping the proper side - stopping the crime not cheering the Criminal and bullying the victim.

 

[Gingerale]

I’ll be more than happy if the US pulls out of NATO. Time for the UK and everyone else to take the lead.

All these unjust wars need to stop and the NATO countries need to pull their own weight. 2% of GDP spending isn’t cutting it and isn’t part of the NATO deal. Go forth into battle. Please let us know how it goes when you get to the front lines.

The US invoked article 5 of NATO after they were attacked. Not a single country invited the president, scolded him for not being thankful. And now US is tired of unjustly wars? They started Afghanistan, and Trump ended in a really poor fashion.

Europe helped US in Iraq, not the other way around. In Libya, not the other way around. US even tried to get Europe in on the Vietnam war. UK refused, what made the US start a coup against Wilson.


Europe should react like Trump is used to. We stop using dollar as petrocurrency. Hell, all EU export paid with euro. We stop sharing any intelligence regarding US safety with them. We invoke tarriffs. We started buying European stuff instead of American.

 

[Tornado]

Considering who is in charge of US intelligence now they probably should stop sharing it anyway

 

[Sprite]

I always found it fascinating how the UK pulled out of the EU and immediately lost all ability to project its will on the greater world scale even though as far as I've been able to tell they didn't really need to follow most (any?) EU rules as a founding member with a seat at the big boy table setting policy. It's such a spectacular self-own that had immediate obvious consequences that the country still AFAIK hasn't even really begun navigating out of all these years later, no matter how many dumbass domestic laws the country passes that claim global jurisdiction.


And yet, despite that, so many in the US have decided that completely destroying its ability to project soft and strong power militarily or diplomatically is somehow going to work out differently for us.
Go ahead, pull out of NATO. Sure, close all the bases outside the US. Recall all the troops overseas and dump them into unemployment lines. Good luck carrying out any actions that require anything beyond lobbing bombs when you have to stage all of your missions out of Pearl Harbor or Guantanamo. Throw a pissy fit and leave the UN like Elon says the US should. Good luck having any say in world affairs vs the ability to push global policy and override any UN Resolution the US doesn't like right now.

It’s also a reason when friends from the EU talk about their own country leaving or wanting to have less “interference” from other EU countries, plead with them to keep the EU United. No good will come of a whole EU collapse.

The UK leaving was such stupid thing to do. As you quite correctly say Self Own. I love the EU and all the countries who are part of it and gutted to live in the one that did such a rookie move.

 

[Com Fox]

 

[Danoff]

View attachment 1433563

In case you hadn't seen what that's referencing.

 

[UKMikey]

Poland expresses solidarity with Ukraine:

Lech Wałęsa

Po decyzji USA o wstrzymaniu dostaw dla Ukrainy, gdyby odpowiedź była w mojej gestii byłaby ,, Róbmy swoje,, ani kroku do tyłu. AMEN. Taki tekst podpisaliśmy: Szanowny Panie Prezydencie,...

www.facebook.com

Your Excellency, Mr. President,

We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against Russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s Russia.

We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.

Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.

The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.

We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet Russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.

Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet Russia.

We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.

Signed,

Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland
Mark Bailin, b. political prisoner, editor of independent publishing houses
Severn Blumstein, b. political prisoner, member of the Workers' Defense Committee
Teresa Bogucka, b. a political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition and Solidarity
Gregory Bogut, b. political prisoner, activist of democratic opposition, independent publisher
Mark Borowik, b. political prisoner, independent publisher
Bogdan Borusewicz, b. political prisoner, leader of the underground Solidarity in Gdansk
Zbigniew Bujak, b. political prisoner, leader of the underground Solidarity in Warsaw
Władysław Frasyniuk, b. political prisoner, leader of the underground Solidarity in Wrocław
Andrew Gintzburg, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Richard Grabarczyk, b. a political prisoner, Solidarity activist
Alexander Janiszewski, b. a political prisoner, Solidarity activist
Peter Kapczy otrski, b. a political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition
Mark Kossakowski, b. political prisoner, independent publicist
Christopher the King, b. a political prisoner , independence activist
Jaroslav Kurski, b. a political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition
Barbara Swan, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Bogdan Lis, b. political prisoner, leader of the underground Solidarity in Gdansk
Henryk Majewski, b. a political prisoner, Solidarity activist
Adam Michnik, b. political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition, editor of independent publishing houses
Slavomir Najniger, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Peter the German , b. political prisoner, journalist, and printer of underground publishing houses,
Stefan Konstanty Niesiołowski, b. a political prisoner , independence activist
Edward Nowak, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Wojciech Onyszkiewicz, b. political prisoner, member of the Workers' Defence Committee, Solidarity activist
Anthony Pawlak, b. a political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition and underground Solidarity
Sylwia Poleska-Peryt, b. a political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition
Christopher Push, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Richard Push, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity,
Jacek Rakowiecki, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Andrew Severn, b. political prisoner, actor, director of the Polish Theater in Warsaw
Witold Sielewicz, b. political prisoner, printer of independent publishing houses
Henryk Sikora, b. a political prisoner, Solidarity activist
Christopher Siemien Krski, b. political prisoner, journalist, and printer of underground publishing houses
Grayna Staniszewska, b. a political prisoner, leaders of Solidarity of the Beskids region
George Degrees, b. a political prisoner, activist of the democratic opposition
Joanna Happy, b. political prisoner, editor of Solidarity underground press
Ludwik Turko, b. a political prisoner, activist of the underground Solidarity
Matthew Wierzbicki, b. political prisoner, printer and publicist of independent publishing houses

 

[unit-one]

nothing speaks "we want piece" like launching a massive attack.

 

[Meythia]

nothing speaks "we want piece" like launching a massive attack.


View attachment 1434205

Trump says "my leader Putin, we dont tell them anymore about your attacks".
Putin response "push the buttons".

 

[Marneus_boss]

The US is tired of the forever wars. Many we started unjustly.

You started ALL the wars injustly, Vietnam, Irak, Central America Invasions, and many other all the US wars did were justified.

As Blood eagle said, you can leave the continent we don't really care, in France we don't need you to maintain the military, De Gaulle housted you in 60's of the country. You bought the European Submissivness for the US hegemony in the world. But we are perfectly capable of defense ourself without all your equipment. Germany will remember that they can be a powerfull armed force. We already replaced you when your Orange Guy decided to stop the information supply to Ukraine so nothing is an issue.
Now that Trump is the little doggy dog of Putin, it will be far easier to do the transition. You can help Russia all you want but you will win nothing by doing business with Russians as they won't give you back. All the Work the US did to have a reputationin the world is being crushed by 2 dudes in the white house in 45 days.

The US won't be missed here.

Let's just hope that Putin dies quickly and all the russian army with him.This regime need to be crushed at all cost.

 

[Eliminatorek]

similar numbers were probably the night Rubio was sitting table with Ławrow playing rUSsian Roulette.

Then Trump molests Zelensky about showing some good will (having UA offer on the table).

 

[Gingerale]

Let's just hope that Putin dies quickly and all the russian army with him.This regime need to be crushed at all cost.

For every Putin and Trump there are new idotic puppets ready. Europe needs to realize both dictators aren't just for a short period, they're both trends. In America its MAGA which goes further than orange man, and Russians are just a big fan of totalitarian autocrats like Putin.

Europe needs to focus on its own. Diplomacy is and should always be the way to go, but no longer should we rely on other forces for our own protection and continuity.

 

[TheCracker]

For every Putin and Trump there are new idotic puppets ready. Europe needs to realize both dictators aren't just for a short period, they're both trends. In America its MAGA which goes further than orange man, and Russians are just a big fan of totalitarian autocrats like Putin.

It does require a popularist figurehead though. For the US at least. Someone like JD Vance isn't going to sway swing voters in the same way Trump manages to do.

 

[Joey D]

You started ALL the wars injustly, Vietnam, Irak, Central America Invasions, and many other all the US wars did were justified.

As Blood eagle said, you can leave the continent we don't really care, in France we don't need you to maintain the military, De Gaulle housted you in 60's of the country. You bought the European Submissivness for the US hegemony in the world. But we are perfectly capable of defense ourself without all your equipment. Germany will remember that they can be a powerfull armed force. We already replaced you when your Orange Guy decided to stop the information supply to Ukraine so nothing is an issue.
Now that Trump is the little doggy dog of Putin, it will be far easier to do the transition. You can help Russia all you want but you will win nothing by doing business with Russians as they won't give you back. All the Work the US did to have a reputationin the world is being crushed by 2 dudes in the white house in 45 days.

The US won't be missed here.

Let's just hope that Putin dies quickly and all the russian army with him.This regime need to be crushed at all cost.

Europe would miss the US, I'm not sure how you figure any other way. Yes, European countries have the ability to defend themselves, but they will need to axe other programs to fund that defense. Part of the reason European nations can afford well-funded social programs is due to spending less on defense since the US more than welcomed the opportunity to shoulder the load because of influence and those sweet, sweet military contracts that companies like Lockheed and Northrup wanted. If European nations want to bolster their defense, they will either have to cut programs, raise taxes, or both. Defense is incredibly costly all the way around, it's why the US defense budget is $1.3T or about 12% of our entire budget.

Europe will also run into the problem of not having readily available replacement equipment. One prime example of this would be Europe's lack of a 5th generation fighter, they rely on Lockheed for that with the F-35. Yes, Europe has gen 4 and 4.5 aircraft, but not gen 5. They are working on gen 6 but that's slated for around 2040. The only other nations with 5th gen fighters are Russia (which is a maybe considering they can't seem to make them) and China. I can't see Europe wanting to couple themselves to either of those world powers.

So while, yes it's possible to decouple from the US, it's going to be expensive and painful for all Europeans. The government's of Europe are going to need to decide which path is worse though.

 

[Eliminatorek]

Europe would miss the US, I'm not sure how you figure any other way. Yes, European countries have the ability to defend themselves, but they will need to axe other programs to fund that defense. Part of the reason European nations can afford well-funded social programs is due to spending less on defense since the US more than welcomed the opportunity to shoulder the load because of influence and those sweet, sweet military contracts that companies like Lockheed and Northrup wanted. If European nations want to bolster their defense, they will either have to cut programs, raise taxes, or both. Defense is incredibly costly all the way around, it's why the US defense budget is $1.3T or about 12% of our entire budget.

Europe will also run into the problem of not having readily available replacement equipment. One prime example of this would be Europe's lack of a 5th generation fighter, they rely on Lockheed for that with the F-35. Yes, Europe has gen 4 and 4.5 aircraft, but not gen 5. They are working on gen 6 but that's slated for around 2040. The only other nations with 5th gen fighters are Russia (which is a maybe considering they can't seem to make them) and China. I can't see Europe wanting to couple themselves to either of those world powers.

So while, yes it's possible to decouple from the US, it's going to be expensive and painful for all Europeans. The government's of Europe are going to need to decide which path is worse though.

That is exactly the problem Trump started.
Synergies were natuaral - production technology, machinery, etc from Europe superior to US.
Military and warfare from US superior to EU.

Problem is when someone stupid mistakes symbiose with paracitism.
Even worse when one burns the bee-garden because he was stung by a bee - which by the end of the day appeared to be a vesp.

 

[FuriousDemon]

The worst thing is that Trump may reduce US global presence, but all those sweet savings only going to end up in pockets of his billionaire buddies. So we're going to ruin relationships for absolutely no gain to all but a few.

 

[McLaren]

For every Putin and Trump there are new idotic puppets ready. Europe needs to realize both dictators aren't just for a short period, they're both trends. In America its MAGA which goes further than orange man, and Russians are just a big fan of totalitarian autocrats like Putin.

Europe needs to focus on its own. Diplomacy is and should always be the way to go, but no longer should we rely on other forces for our own protection and continuity.

Eh, that's still in the air, thankfully.

Both of Trump's own older sons have the charisma of a wet fart & MAGA barely acknowledges them individually; they put more stock in Barron whose mother clearly wants him away from the political world & has shown some semblance of grace unlike the other 2 goofballs (he actually reached out to shake Biden's hand at the inauguration). No one gives any mind to Tiffany & Ivanka has separated herself this time around. Then, when you have folks like DeSantis trying to copy Trump's style & also failing, there's a certain relief that once Orange Man is gone, the cult mostly dies with it.

 

[UKMikey]

Ukrainians in the U.S. fear being deported to a war zone as uncertainty looms

President Trump said Thursday he would soon decide whether to revoke temporary legal status of Ukrainians who came to the U.S. after the war started.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[FuriousDemon]

What a disgrace

“I actually think he’s doing what anybody else would do,” Trump said in the Oval Office on Friday, when asked whether he was upset that Russian President Vladimir Putin was taking advantage of the U.S. halt in aid for Ukraine. “Probably anybody in that position would be doing that right now. He wants to get it ended. And I think Ukraine wants to get it ended, but I don’t see. It’s crazy. They’re taking tremendous punishment. I don’t quite get it.”

 

[Sureboss]

What a disgrace

Those last five words will be on his tombstone.

 

[UKMikey]

Those last five words will be on his tombstone.

Especially if Melania is involved with organising the service.

 

[Touring Mars]

What a disgrace

It's worse than that - it's an absolute travesty.

Trump is a Russian stooge. He is now supporting the Russian cause by withdrawing critical support for Ukraine, and shamefully continues to blame Ukraine for both starting the war and for propogating it. He wants Ukraine to stop defending itself, and categorically has not insisted that Russia stop attacking - instead, he issues pathetic, hollow threats of sanctions and tariffs which Putin simply ignores.

Aside from Ukraine, Trump has also ordered the Pentagon to suspend offensive cyber operations against Russia, a move that John Bolton has describes as a huge mistake. In withdrawing support for Ukraine, as well as other moves that are clearly benefiting Russia, Trump is taking a huge risk with US national security in the misguided belief that this might make Russia "easier to deal with"; but why would Russia need to deal with Trump when he's handing them everything they want already?

 

[Ali]

Trump is working hard to make Russia great again.

 

[eran0004]

You started ALL the wars injustly, Vietnam, Irak, Central America Invasions, and many other all the US wars did were justified.

There are many things to be critical of when it comes to US foreign policy and conflicts, so I don't see why you'd feel the need to tell lies about it. It only hurts your credibility.

The Vietnam war was started by North Vietnam. The Gulf war was started by Saddam Hussein. The Afghanistan war was justified by the fact that the regime was harboring the terrorists responsible for 9/11.

 

[Famine]

Trump is working hard to make Russia great again.

Can't spell Russia without USA...

 

[Meythia]

I think red and white dont quite fit well together, unless it is to fries and a burger. 🤣

 

[Blitz24]

It's worse than that - it's an absolute travesty.

Trump is a Russian stooge. He is now supporting the Russian cause by withdrawing critical support for Ukraine, and shamefully continues to blame Ukraine for both starting the war and for propogating it. He wants Ukraine to stop defending itself, and categorically has not insisted that Russia stop attacking - instead, he issues pathetic, hollow threats of sanctions and tariffs which Putin simply ignores.

Aside from Ukraine, Trump has also ordered the Pentagon to suspend offensive cyber operations against Russia, a move that John Bolton has describes as a huge mistake. In withdrawing support for Ukraine, as well as other moves that are clearly benefiting Russia, Trump is taking a huge risk with US national security in the misguided belief that this might make Russia "easier to deal with"; but why would Russia need to deal with Trump when he's handing them everything they want already?

I don't even think that a massive cyberattack on all of the data downloaded by Musk and pilfered by Russia would change Trump, Musk or any of their supporters' minds.