Update 2.09 Online Physics Change?

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•Fixed an issue where the online control characteristics differed from the offline characteristics.

Does this mean that online and offline physics are now the same? Is there more grip online now? If so, all of our offline F.I.T.T challenges just became very valuable to online racers.

Anyone noticing any differences online?

Time to test.
 
I sincerely hope this is the case, partly for the wider benefit of the community, but also for ease of tuning. I'm desperate for a bit of parity.

I can see you're online now, so get testing. I'll be there in an hour or so to find out for myself. If you're still on, I might join you 👍

{Cy}
 
I sincerely hope this is the case, partly for the wider benefit of the community, but also for ease of tuning. I'm desperate for a bit of parity.

I can see you're online now, so get testing. I'll be there in an hour or so to find out for myself. If you're still on, I might join you 👍

{Cy}

7:45 am for me and time to get ready for work. Might get a run or two in while on a conference call that starts my day?
 
I haven't tested, but others have reported that online physics are now changed to what offline physics were all along. If this is true, be prepared for understeer..lol.
 
Just tested..

530pp - 350z RS - sports medium - power limiter 100%, ballast 0kgs
426bhp 1218kgs

Nurb GP/F - 8 laps

We raced these 530pp cars / SM - last night (pre 2.09).

1) ONLINE (pre 2.09):

Tyre Fuel wear / ON
Slipstream / WEAK
Damage & penalties / medium
All driving aids / OFF (abs 1 allowed)
Ghosting & visible damage / OFF

2) OFFLINE: A-Spec / Professional / Supercar Festival / Nurb GP/F 3 laps (today post 2.09)

3) ONLINE: (today post 2.09)

3a) Tyre & Fuel / ON (normal)

3b) Tyre and Fuel / OFF

4) OFFLINE - practice - free run (today post 2.09) - all driving aids OF - abs @ 1


Checked online today - same regulations as last night (EXACT same car / setup and race regs used in all online tests)

Tried A-Spec

Went back online, tried same regulations but with tyre & fuel OFF

Results:

1 & 3a felt identical

2 & 3b felt very similiar, probably the most similiar between offline and online I've felt so far. BUT, one big difference.

OFFLINE - tyres heated up much quicker then ONLINE. OFFLINE, all 4 tyres up to temp within 1 1/2 laps. ONLINE - front tyres never really got fully up to temp the whole race.

BUT - 1 & 3a - same as last night, took a few laps for all 4 tyres to get up to temp, by this time very small amount of wear also, but now car at it's best, fastest laps and strong until race end. Absolutely identical to the 4 races done here with this car last night - same laptimes, same behaviour, same tyre heat / wear.

Don't think online has changed - with a 530pp car on sports mediums in 8 lap race, you'd feel it. We ended up doing 4 races here last night as it was the last track of the night.

Been using these cars in this class for neary 2 years now so can remember how these cars have "changed" because of previous updates. Didn't fee like anything had changed from last night (pre 2.09).

Couldn't feel any difference, or see any difference in laptimes, tyre wear, tyre temp - nothing..? So can't see how online is same as offline, but this is only 1 car and a basic test, not really accurate for something with 1000 cars - it's just "first impresions".

OFFLINE - have to say, was impressed, car seemed to move around alot more, didn't feel so planted.

The fact that OFFLINE the tyres were quickly up to full temp, giving max grip and staying that way is going to make a difference, and it was easy to feel it to. ONLINE with tyre and fuel OFF this wasn't the case - front tyres took alot longer o warm up, never really getting to full temp, still had to be a little careful in slow corners on cold tyres, but once warm, could be aggressive on the throttle and get decent grip.

Considering the different in tyre temp between 2 & 3b, they did feel very similiar.

First impressions, OFFLINE is now very similiar to ONLINE with tyre fuel OFF and having 'perfect tyres', ONLINE doesn't seem to have changed at all - at least with this car and these regulations.

But with so many cars, so many variations with race regulations and specs aswell as driving styles / setups - plus add to that Pd amazing inability to clarify exactly what they've done... who knows, a load more testing needs to be done to be 100% sure.

EDIT: Added OFFLINE "practice" free run to test.

Just done OFFLINE practice free run.

Crazy - even with tyre wear ON, you have magic tyres. Tyre heated up same speed as A Spec race, but tyre wear was almost non existent.

After 5 laps, I thought I'd accidently put tyre wear 'OFF', so pulled over and done a 2 minute burnout/donut, constantly spinning wheels, tyre indicater glowing red.

Eventually wore the rear tyre down, but compared to ONLINE, those rear tyres should've been obliterated and you should be grindng metal.

Free run OFFLINE felt quite good, the tyres heating up quick and there seemed to be a tiny amout less grip, car 'moves around' a little more than 2, but with the same tyre TEMP behaviour of 2.

Tiny amount more grip and stability than 3a though - difficult to be precise as wasn't expecting tyre behaviour to be like that. They heat up so quick, but wear down so slow - completely different behvaviour to 3a and 3b for me in this car with these regs.
 
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Took one of my favorite cars to one of my favorite tracks. Honda S2000, 450PP, 261hp, 1075kg and sport soft tires at Top Gear Test Track. Did five lap run with both offline and online.

Offline - grip reduction real. 1:18.5 fast lap.

Online - grip reduction real, tire wear/fuel off. 1:18.6 fast lap.

The car felt identical offline and online. I don't have time right now to test with tire wear on.
 
Sounds like the basis for an offline/online tuning shootout!!

Good idea - but you'll need cars that don't have an overkill of grip to help highlight any potential difference(s).

Tyres too grippy, or tyre wear OFF, can potentially mask or dilute the impact of any changes in the update..

Or, if guys are thinking of taking offline setups online, again, grip overkill could possibly dilute or hide potential obstacles they might need to overcome in the future..
 
So in patch 2.08 people said that offline was unaffected by the new suspension or something like that.

So is the offline now the same as online or is online now the same of offline?

I kinda wanna know because i cant get patch were i live and have to go to someones house to download it, and if it changes offline physics than i wanna stop tuning until i get patch so i dont waste time doing somethat that will be changed anyway.

so hows it go?
 
2.08 was, 2.09 is, and 2.10 will be.

Just do what works for you.

Each patch to this fine game, is like Mirosoft releasing a new Windows platform. Some are stellar, some are downright insulting to the user. Some are great changes, some of those changes make it to the next one, some don't. Then we get changes no one really wanted, but market conditions dictate otherwise. I have no further point to what I'm trying to make.
 
So in patch 2.08 people said that offline was unaffected by the new suspension or something like that.

So is the offline now the same as online or is online now the same of offline?

I kinda wanna know because i cant get patch were i live and have to go to someones house to download it, and if it changes offline physics than i wanna stop tuning until i get patch so i dont waste time doing somethat that will be changed anyway.

so hows it go?
In very brief testing it appears that the offline has been changed to match online more closely.
 
Good idea - but you'll need cars that don't have an overkill of grip to help highlight any potential difference(s).

Tyres too grippy, or tyre wear OFF, can potentially mask or dilute the impact of any changes in the update..

Or, if guys are thinking of taking offline setups online, again, grip overkill could possibly dilute or hide potential obstacles they might need to overcome in the future..

I was thinking more along the lines of 500+ pp shootout on maybe SH tires, a wide variety of cars, and maybe have them tuned only offline and then tested both online and offline and record the laptimes and comments to have a wider range of input than the anecdotal evidence we usually get around these things.
 
I noticed online at one of my baseline tuning tracks (HSR rev.) that even a low grip car like the the '67 Toyota 2000 GT was able to take the first corner very aggressively running SS tires and 450pp on stock suspension . This wasn't possible before without fine tuning the suspension. 👍👍
 
In very brief testing it appears that the offline has been changed to match online more closely.

The magic words - from first impressions of new patch.. People need to stop talking about being the "same", it never will be.

If Polyphony can't even get online free run and online racing to be 100% equal all the time, no way are they going to get online and offfline "the same".

As Desperado says, first impresiions it looks like PD have made offline more like online.. Everyone needs to stop saying "same" or "matched".

But I was wrong about 2.08 (understand what PD means about ride height now, but back then, got in a real mess over it), so things might change with 2.09. At the moment though, now I spent all night racing cars I've used for over a year, same tracks and same race regs......online doesn't feel different.

It's nothing like difference felt after other updates, compared to what PD was doing 12 months ago, when they really screwed up, 2.09 seems like 'nohthing' from what been driven online so far..

This crazy fuel / tyre wear adjustment though - whole new can of worms, typical of PD, it's ridiculous.


I was thinking more along the lines of 500+ pp shootout on maybe SH tires, a wide variety of cars, and maybe have them tuned only offline and then tested both online and offline and record the laptimes and comments to have a wider range of input than the anecdotal evidence we usually get around these things.

Yeh 500pp and sports hards are good online, the right cars (even stock) can be alot of fun but some can be a handful. Try to keep the variables down to a minimum to help validate things..

Maybe 1 car per drivetrain, everyone uses same car, power, weight & tuning parts. Then tests on same offline practice, or a spec event, lobby regs or whatever..

But, I think maybe trying to use cars that are "tried and tested" both online and offline pre 2.09, cars which the testers know inside out, then drive them again offline and online too compare before and after this update.

I don't have anything like that, I only know my online cars inside out, which is why I presumed offline had changed, not online, as the laptimes, 'feel' and tyre behaviour online seemed identical to pre 2.09, well, so far at least.


Always got to remember, PD are sneaky SoBs, they are very vague with their descriptions (about updates) and have 'sneaked' things in 'behind the scenes' before, don't put it past them from doing it again, even if it's for just one car.

This potentially could impact test results.. unlikely, but maybe.

I see alot of talk about some cars 'changing' when driven online after 2.09, compared to before..

PD might have tinkered with a car, some cars, the physics - who knows, only PD, and they never let anyone know what's really going on / happened.
 
Offline - grip reduction real. 1:18.5 fast lap.

Online - grip reduction real, tire wear/fuel off. 1:18.6 fast lap.

The car felt identical offline and online. I don't have time right now to test with tire wear on.
This is awesome, I always felt cars did not handle how I expected online.
98% of my gt5 driving has been done in the Seasonal Time Trials so going online the car never handled how I expected when I had the same car & tune.
 
I am going to add some wild speculation to the discussion. I think that game usage may now be low enough that there is now enough server room for PD to make the online physics the same level of sophistication as the offline physics. This or maybe after two years of additional programming they have found short cuts in the code to make online run faster. Maybe this is a test for GT6 physics.

Why else would offline and online need to be different? It must be server space or game speed to allow 16 different consoles to interact with each other in real time. There had to be a limitation somewhere that made the difference necessary. PD has now had an additional two years to program. Maybe, just maybe this is a test for GT6? We will have to watch the chatter from online racing rooms to see if any new glitches show up.

Just my wild speculation.
 
So in patch 2.08 people said that offline was unaffected by the new suspension or something like that.

Offline was affected, definitely. It was easily noticeable with heavier cars.

Now online is changed to be exactly like, or very close to offline.
 
I ran a Lexus IS200 in several sprint races last night, tuned to run at 1:35 on CS tires at DF Reverse, 391PP to be exact, without ABS. My best lap out of 25 or so without a draft effect was 1:35.001 with many laps within 1-2/10ths. The car was a bit loose and I was pretty careful on certain corners not to get the back end out as once it got loose it tended to keep going. Took the same car out tonight and ran 8 or 9 laps. My best lap, exact same tune, was 1:34.2 with most around 1:34.4-.6. The car definitely felt more planted with a little more grip, slightly less oversteer and when it did let go, it was much more controllable. In fact I was able to initiate a controlled powerslide entering the double right hander at the bottom of the course, something I would not have tried last night.

Also took out a Civic RM on SS tires that I ran 30 laps with on Saturday. The car was beautiful on Saturday, a little loose on entry but you could pull it right back with a little throttle if you needed too. Same tune today plows like a bulldozer. Taking the ride height to extreme settings, which would have worked in the past like a charm, did not fix the understeer.

Took the same Civic to GVE, same tune. A few days ago, it was horribly loose in the first right hander after the downhill esses. Nearly uncontrollable, as is often the case when you take an FF that's loose at Tsukuba, to GVE. Now the car with the same tune, flies through the right hander like it's glued to the track but understeers a little more everywhere else, while running a slightly faster lap.

I believe there is now more grip online and everything has moved in the direction of understeer, same as offline, at least based on my limited testing so far. If tuners can take this increase grip and tune the cars to the same level of slight oversteer as they did before the patch, you'll definitely make some significant lap time gains.
 
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The car felt identical offline and online.

Thats my impression too. Online is like offline now.

Additionally longitudinal grip seems improved, especially noticeable on lower grade tyres. As amar212 says (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7784419#post7784419) it's much easier now to drive supercars on stock tyres out of slow corners.

But still me and everyone I raced with yesterday evening seems way slower around Nordschleife. Don't now if the new physics are really "slower" or if we just need better tunes & driving now...
 
Z1-AV69
Thats my impression too. Online is like offline now.

Additionally longitudinal grip seems improved, especially noticeable on lower grade tyres. As amar212 says (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7784419#post7784419) it's much easier now to drive supercars on stock tyres out of slow corners.

But still me and everyone I raced with yesterday evening seems way slower around Nordschleife. Don't now if the new physics are really "slower" or if we just need better tunes & driving now...

Maybe slower but offline physics were always more realistic. At least to me
 
Z1-AV69
Thats my impression too. Online is like offline now.

Additionally longitudinal grip seems improved, especially noticeable on lower grade tyres. As amar212 says (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7784419#post7784419) it's much easier now to drive supercars on stock tyres out of slow corners.

But still me and everyone I raced with yesterday evening seems way slower around Nordschleife. Don't now if the new physics are really "slower" or if we just need better tunes & driving now...

Yes I notice that yesterday around Nordschleife as some of my cars became slower one of them is the BTR !! Why I don't know and some no any change its only more grip and good corner exit .
 
Maybe slower but offline physics were always more realistic. At least to me

I'm badly lacking practice with offline, but I think I like it more too. It seems much more detailed, it's more interesting to drive. And it's a new hunt to claim back those lost seconds...
 
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