Update 2.10 - Major PP changes

[Zuel]

Sorry but that comment just proved you haven't done any responsible testing. If you've actually done any testing and/or raced in the various affected cars it has only been in an attempt to support your pet theories and not an objective test of the true performance potentials of various cars.

I'm done arguing with you so will just agree to disagree about the 2:10 update and it's merits/flaws.

Funny that you happen to make this comment. Because I'm in the process of developing a tuning table with all the cars and where they fit within the grouping system at stock and after a tune as well being overly tuned. And for my finding and testing their all in the PP chart. All you have to do is go to this thread.https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=271814 look over the chart or down load it and READ IT ask questions if need and do the testing yourself. It's there in plain English.

Maybe it's best you stop commenting until you have done some testing. So your argument will be valved or hold water.

 

[Filip JDM]

I found a bug on few cars after update. I dont know if this has been before, but fully tuned car with stage 2 turbo has more hp and pp than with stage 3 turbo. I cant remember all cars i found with that bug, i remember only standard Lexus vertex edition and maybe standard zexel skyline r34 '03.
If anyone wants i will post pictures of that.

 

[Zuel]

I found a bug on few cars after update. I dont know if this has been before, but fully tuned car with stage 2 turbo has more hp and pp than with stage 3 turbo. I cant remember all cars i found with that bug, i remember only standard Lexus vertex edition and maybe standard zexel skyline r34 '03.
If anyone wants i will post pictures of that.

This is not a bug. It's call "Match Tuning" If you have build a real car you'll understand. In point look at the last TUNER company PD was seen last working with. COBB TUNING, I mad a comment about that before but I won't get into that.. I got major heat for my comment from someone, I will not say names. If you believe sound bites was the only thing they were working on. For the ones that are deeply involved in tuning real world cars and follow the latest break through's. You may recall COBB TUNING was the FIRST aftermarket company to crack the ECU of the R35 which was told to be un-crack-able buy the Japaneses government and Nissan.

 

[Filip JDM]

This is not a bug. It's call "Match Tuning" If you have build a real car you'll understand. In point look at the last TUNER company PD was seen last working with. COBB TUNING, I mad a comment about that before but I won't get into that.. I got major heat for my comment from someone, I will not say names.

Thank you, i didnt know that. I havent built a real car, i am only 16 years old. So sometimes bigger turbo is too much for engine so it produces less hp?

 

[amar212]

Thank you, i didnt know that. I havent built a real car, i am only 16 years old. So sometimes bigger turbo is too much for engine so it produces less hp?

Exactly.

However, it has to be said how it does not produce "less HP", but it produces unbalanced engine where adding a Stage 3 turbo can add (and sometimes id does not, as your example says) more *power* as number, but it does not add more power as efficiency.

GT5 has balanced tuning made as pre-requisite since the vanilla-version of the game. Example from my head says how fitting a Stage 2 Turbo on Cappuccino RM will add more power, but the car will be slower due to torque-problems and lag-hole.

Thus, more power as *number* does not lead to more *powerful* car as performance.

 

[Zuel]

Thank you, i didnt know that. So sometimes bigger turbo is too much for engine so it produces less hp?

Correct.. This is one of the MAJOR additions to the PP system that I have been trying to get across to the GTP community. Yes adding a stage three anything will give you high torque but that torque ONLY coming in effect in a straight line. To far out of the ideal acceleration point coming out of the turn. In point, if you come across two of the same types of cars one maxed out and they other stepped tuned or matched tuned. The car that has been stepped tuned or matched tuned will ALWAYS beat the maxed out car out of the turn. In turn once the maxed out car get to the higher RPM range where the torque only comes in for about 2000 rpm. That car will gain speed at a rapid rate for only those 2000 rpm.

Note a stepped tuned or matched tuned car with have the torque range right in the sweet spot of the power band which is in the 2500 to 5000 rpm range pending on the CC of the motor. Lager motor rarely need high out put parts unless they are going for all out speed. Now if you have your Stepped/Matched tuned car on a short track up against a driver with a high out put car de-tuned the stepped/matched tuned car will always out perform the that driver and car as long you have a well sound set and your a well rounded driver. On a track that a straight where you reach over a 120 you're done.

Exactly.

However, it has to be said how it does not produce "less HP", but it produces unbalanced engine where adding a Stage 3 turbo can add (and sometimes id does not, as your example says) more *power* as number, but it does not add more power as efficiency.

GT5 has balanced tuning made as pre-requisite since the vanilla-version of the game. Example from my head says how fitting a Stage 2 Turbo on Cappuccino RM will add more power, but the car will be slower due to torque-problems and lag-hole.

Thus, more power as *number* does not lead to more *powerful* car as performance.

Thank you Amar for also commenting. Our very OWN AMAR understand stepped/match tuning. And we all know Amar history so I take this as a silent juster. Thank you Amar.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

That's what I've always done to reach set PP levels, tune as little as possible. The first thing I do with a car is strip the weight, and then alter the weight distribution to something more preferable, and doing so with as little ballast as possible.

Only then will I start looking at tuning the engine. I've also found it better to let an engine run dirty, fresh oil/engine restoration seems to be a very inefficient way of increasing PP, doing so adds a lot of torque. I always aim for higher HP than higher torque, and it seems to work to me.

I think over tuning a car and then using the power limiter keeps hold of too much torque and not enough HP, therefore you have considerably less HP at the same PP compared to a lightly tuned car. Plus, the torque is only going to add to wheelspin.

 

[Wild Cobra Z28]

Well, I've been going one by one through cars on one of My ID's that I didn't get before. Looking at each car, comparing with my database tom see if I changed anything or drove it since collecting the data. I am almost done with the Mazda's, alphabetically and have almost 150 cars to add with three(?) corrections to my previous work. Not going to post any of it tonight, but I will attempt to get the PP changes on most cars. I will not be able to do all cars. I never purchased everything in the new car lot, so I will not have correct PP data for most new cars after the Mercedes. My strategy as I approached 20,000,000 credits was by the expensive ones first. I think I have all new cars 500,000 credits and more. I then went alphabetically up to Mercedes. I have PP data in Excel for all cars I bought and won, with and without oil changes, to check cars against.

Anyway, in a few days, maybe tomorrow morning, I'll add more cars to the PP changes.

I now have less than 100 holes up through Mazda.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@Johnnypenso - Come on. PD has access to data. Every online race, seasonal, time trial etc. is done on their servers. Why wouldn't they be monitoring that? Well... answering my own question... maybe they haven't thought to hire a few analyists.

My friends who play Battlefield say that game play is closely monitored. If one gun starts to dominate usage, they tone that one down a bit.

Think about this as PD would think about it, not like a a normal human. They probably look down their noses at all the people racing online on RS tires. They probably assume that most of the purists and serious gamers usually use stock tires which is probably true a lot of the time. You don't see street car TT's on RS tires do you? Do you routinely see street car TT's on even SS tires? No. I remember one I think, the GT-R on a custom Eifel circuit and I believe SRF was on, probably indicating that they thought it was a bit "arcadish". Usually the street car TT's are on SH or CS tires.

And since there are so many variables in near infinite combinations, I think they leave tuning completely out of the equation. I don't think they are running around testing fully tuned 800 hp street cars, and especially on RS tires. But a stock Aston on SH tires vs. a stock NSX on SH tires, yeah I'm sure they did that.

So I was thinking, and I'm sure this is true but I'm not going to test it because I just don't have time and it's meaningless anyway because no one races these different cars online on their natural rubber, but I'm sure the cars would be much more even if you took them bone stock with their new PP levels and raced them together. The high HP/PP cars would probably win on the larger tracks but the better handling lower HP/PP cars would win on the shorter to medium sized handling tracks.

Correct.. This is one of the MAJOR additions to the PP system that I have been trying to get across to the GTP community. Yes adding a stage three anything will give you high torque but that torque ONLY coming in effect in a straight line. To far out of the ideal acceleration point coming out of the turn. In point, if you come across two of the same types of cars one maxed out and they other stepped tuned or matched tuned. The car that has been stepped tuned or matched tuned will ALWAYS beat the maxed out car out of the turn. In turn once the maxed out car get to the higher RPM range where the torque only comes in for about 2000 rpm. That car will gain speed at a rapid rate for only those 2000 rpm.

Note a stepped tuned or matched tuned car with have the torque range right in the sweet spot of the power band which is in the 2500 to 5000 rpm range pending on the CC of the motor. Lager motor rarely need high out put parts unless they are going for all out speed. Now if you have your Stepped/Matched tuned car on a short track up against a driver with a high out put car de-tuned the stepped/matched tuned car will always out perform the that driver and car as long you have a well sound set and your a well rounded driver. On a track that a straight where you reach over a 120 you're done.

I've seen tuning thoughts like this, except I've never seen anyone with these types of "theories" enter tuning contests and use their wonderful tuning skills to destroy everyone else. Like Lewis mentioned above, the vast majority of tuners pay little attention to the torque curve and instead focus on maximizing the peak power high up in the rev range and then tailoring the gearbox to be on the peak power no matter where it is on the track. I've never seen a top 50 TT tune and I've seen plenty of them, that follows any strategy other than that.

There's no doubt that some ways of tuning/adding parts are more efficient than others. But I don't think it makes a scrap of difference to this discussion, which concerns PP imbalance between different cars, not maxing the PP impact of tuning a single car.

 

[Z1-AV69]

It would be great if someone would run a test, but I highly doubt tyres can explain anything here.

It may be more difficult to drive those cars on lower grade tyres, but let's be honest: it's only a matter of practicing to master that. Then a "monster car" may be more difficult to corner, but at it's power-levels it basically doesn't matter at all how much speed you carry through the corners, which is very different for a lower power car with better handling. So once you assume both make it round, the difference may even be greater with low grip tyres.

Another argument: Since the removal of tyres from the PP equation, did anyone notice a vastly different balance of the cars when on comforts compared to when on racing softs? A difference worth 60 PP? No? Ok, then let's move on.

I sympathize with the idea to make lower tyres used more in online racing. And it may indeed be a "solution" now, because people enjoying unbalanced cars wont enter such a room (unfortunately a lot of other people will stay out too though). But tyres are not the explanation of PD's thoughts with this change.

 

[Tornado]

I really don’t understand why some of you if not all of you can’t see how much the pp system has improved.

It's funny how that works, since you keep ignoring what they are saying.

Not adding everything to the motor to get the highest torque rating at a tuned rate or the best torque to weight rating. To get the best TRUE performance out of every car in our stable and drive the crap out of them to see how they performed to the real world cars.

You don't seem to get the fact that not everyone was doing this nor is that the reason that everyone is taking issue with it, and that doing this could just as easily make a slower car at a certain PP than a faster one long before this patch.
Throw around the words "step tuning" all that you want, but it doesn't mean anything when it applies to situations where people haven't been maxing out their cars and chopping them down (which, again, wasn't a very good idea most of the time even before the PP update anyway) but are still facing huge imbalances.

If we happen to get an update that removes the power limiter so it forces the users that add all the parts to the motor to get the best out of the car at a de-tuned state to start rethinking they way they add parts to their VR cars. What will you do? Complain and cry “WE WANT THE OLD PP SYSTEM BACK!!!” more than likely. (Due to the history, I’m going on fact)

And they would be right to complain just like they are in this case.

I myself would rather break the norm to see what is being offered not forced.

Good for you. It is being forced though, BTW. There's no opt-out to this new system.

We all will have our own opinions but how can you say that your opinion holds water until you have done the research or the testing. You really can’t until you do, I don’t think anyone of you will though. (Which is a fact?)

I've done the testing. I did the testing before this patch came out. I did the testing for hundreds of cars to get them roughly equal in performance when grouped together at a level that I chose where they could be roughly equal in performance. Now I'm looking at a wall of cars that have PP ranges all over the place yet I know are still roughly equal in performance. So just drop this "do the testing" garbage. It's a non-argument that you just keep repeating because you don't want to actually respond to what people are saying.

So here is your chance to try something new instead of being forced to try something.

Except we are being forced to.

Remember we don’t own the right to GT 5 Kaz Yamauchi does and it’s offered to us on the Sony Play Stations. He has heard us and given us what we asked for and things we haven’t asked for.

"So shut up and be happy about it."

I see if we or a few of we keep going down this path (Cheating the PP system) the power limiter will be removed and some of you will be forced to rethink what you add to the cars as a whole. Or move on to a different platform.

And people would have a right to complain then too, because the only thing PD should do regarding that is allow room hosts to set the amount the limiter can be used online.

So here is your chance to try something new to better the competition, because to tell you the truth the competition has gotten really dull.

It's nice that you think this, but why should anyone else care that you were finding the game boring and thus welcome everything getting shaken up to several players' detriment?

1 question, what motor mod and parts you have on the motor? Not the car the motor. If you have anything over a stage two then your comment doesn't hold any weight.

It is completely irrelevant to his point what mods were done to achieve that swing. If you're building a car for a certain PP, and one car takes a Stage 3 engine mod to get there, it makes no difference other than the end result. Which, in his example, is a 150 hp spread for cars that already handled pretty well.

Every race I entered since the update I have out raced and out performed every driver and their car with a balance set and car that is stepped tuned for it's class. (Following the PP grouping system.) The only driver's that out performed my car and out raced me where there drivers in the RINGER cars as they are becoming to be known as. I'm not going to explain which classes need which motor mods to perform the best.

So what you're saying is, you've found cars that benefited from the new system better than the other people have, and you've exploited them to your benefit. Except for the ringers that were there before this patch and this patch did nothing about.


Yep. PP system is certainly better now.

Yes XD the exhaust parts does make BIG difference. To find out where besides using a full race exhaust you all must to the testing if you're up to it.

Blah blah testing blah blah. How about you just say why rather than whine that everyone else can't have an opinion because they haven't done the testing.

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinions and to play the game as they see fit. Though if I say you're wrong for not trying then you're wrong for not right correct? Because you didn't try. (Correct) And if I say your opinion doesn't hold water unless you have done the testing and have a valued argument then your comment doesn't hold water.

This highlighted comment just proves that you're unwilling to try and see. DO you really know that the highlighted cars will still perform as they do now? No you don't because you didn't bother to try along with others.

I DO..

So until you can come up with your results and finding you can stay pissed. My finding are all complied in the GT 5 Performance Points chart. And all you have to do it step tune the motors and break in the car to see my finding are dang close to 100 % accurate. Every car will fall in line with it's proper class as LONG you tune the motor correctly. If not your whole garage and tuning with be out of balance.

I'm pretty sure the people you keep ignoring have done the testing and have been tuning their motors, and the opinions they are saying corresponds to their findings with the new PP system. You don't get to just ignore their opinions because you like throwing around buzzwords like "step-tuning" and they aren't.

And for my finding and testing their all in the PP chart. All you have to do is go to this thread.https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=271814 look over the chart or down load it and READ IT ask questions if need and do the testing yourself. It's there in plain English.

Apparently not too straightforward if one of the big names of the tuning section can't even make heads or tails of it.

Correct.. This is one of the MAJOR additions to the PP system that I have been trying to get across to the GTP community. Yes adding a stage three anything will give you high torque but that torque ONLY coming in effect in a straight line. To far out of the ideal acceleration point coming out of the turn. In point, if you come across two of the same types of cars one maxed out and they other stepped tuned or matched tuned. The car that has been stepped tuned or matched tuned will ALWAYS beat the maxed out car out of the turn. In turn once the maxed out car get to the higher RPM range where the torque only comes in for about 2000 rpm. That car will gain speed at a rapid rate for only those 2000 rpm.

Note a stepped tuned or matched tuned car with have the torque range right in the sweet spot of the power band which is in the 2500 to 5000 rpm range pending on the CC of the motor. Lager motor rarely need high out put parts unless they are going for all out speed. Now if you have your Stepped/Matched tuned car on a short track up against a driver with a high out put car de-tuned the stepped/matched tuned car will always out perform the that driver and car as long you have a well sound set and your a well rounded driver. On a track that a straight where you reach over a 120 you're done.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what he was asking, which was why one turbo adds more power/pp than another one. And in fact, it wasn't an "addition to the PP system" since it has been in the game since 1.00 long before the PP system was.


Similarly:

Thank you Amar for also commenting. Our very OWN AMAR understand stepped/match tuning. And we all know Amar history so I take this as a silent juster. Thank you Amar.

What you said has nothing to do with what Amar said (he was talking about matching a turbo system to the car's natural engine characteristics, not adding the most power and chopping it down for a PP range), so don't parade around his post as if it equates to credibility for the completely different thing you were saying.

I found a bug on few cars after update. I dont know if this has been before, but fully tuned car with stage 2 turbo has more hp and pp than with stage 3 turbo. I cant remember all cars i found with that bug, i remember only standard Lexus vertex edition and maybe standard zexel skyline r34 '03.
If anyone wants i will post pictures of that.

The answer for that is because GT5's turbo system works more realistically than that of past GTs. It isn't a "Stage 1, 2, 3" thing like the old ones where each stage added more power. It operates on a specific RPM area instead. Because of this, the cars with particularly high amounts of torque lower in the rev range will make more power adding boost to the middle of the torque curve than they will adding it at the end where they don't have much torque stock. For example, 90's Japanese turbo engines (3000GT, Supra, Skyline GT-R and the Lexus models with Supra engines) make a lot of torque early on up to about midrange RPM, before running out of power as the revs climb. Now, because they don't make a lot of power up high, adding a High RPM turbo will only add torque in that portion of the rev range; whereas a mid-RPM turbo will add torque right in the area that the torque in the stock car is the strongest. And since many of those cars make their peak power around there when stock, a massive boost to the torque in that area will also lead to a bigger boost in power.


As far as why it increases the PP more, PP also takes into account the area under the torque curve. For that reason, a peaky engine with high power wouldn't have as high PP as a torquey engine with the same power. This is why, for example, the Tank Car had such a high PP even though it wasn't remotely competitive at that performance level.

 

[Zuel]

To all the people that I may have offended or upset anyway I apologize. And for the one’s that some say I have been ignoring about the results of their testing or doubt their testing methods. I say to you “Share your results” prove me wrong. I have shared the results of my testing which is the PP chart. If you all would like a brief on my testing and how the results were compiled, then you all must be ready to read another book on GT5. Because it took me a year of testing and reformatting a math formula to try and break down GT5 pp system as a whole and I come across the grouping system, shared the system. Done my best to explain the system, shared the chart so you all would understand the pp system. Gave you the average points for each and every part as well results from adding aero to road cars and the effects of those points.

Knowing this so far I’ve only got negative feedback just because I called some of you out on a matter of not trying a new tuning method or the tuning method that some us have started doing again. And share your results. From the negative comments I’ve gotten or some trying to pick apart my method and comments. I ask you two questions... “Have you even given the new pp system a try in its current form to see how the step/match tuning works?” “Are you still going to scramble to get your garage in order to a pacific group block number while you have 75% of the cars de-tuned with the power limiter below 89% power?” So far none of you have tried to test the new system in the step/match form due to none of you have shared any results. Only the effects to your correct cars and garage because of the new pp system, as well sharing facts from the 3 previous systems some at a tuned rate and a maxed out rate nothing from the new system. I’m breaking in new cars and keeping old cars where there at, I’m just a few day out from sharing my final results, for now I’ll share the result’s of two cars for the 513/521 group. (Both)/Correction/ One car is tuned to a stage 1 both cars have full intake, full exhaust and ECU.

BMW 135I ’07 (239.2 mils) Stage 1 513 pp 1264kg
426hp/6700 rpm
368ft-lb/5200 rpm

Honda NSX Type R ’02 (228.1 miles) 513pp 1255kg
396hp/7600 rpm
297ft-lb/6100 rpm

Both cars are very stout in this current for. During break-in and racing both cars were 002 sec of each other. If I had a Vbox or a capture card I’ll be able to share the video but I don’t have one. Just the numbers and chart...
Now if you want to test my theory build two cars similar in class any drive train you want. Test compare the whole nine yards pick it apart.

Prove me wrong… That's my challenge to the nah sawyer's and tuners.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

^ Interesting tune for the 2 cars there, I will surely try the tune at 513 PP, thanks.

 

[Samus]

I still don't see how any of this proves the PP system isn't broken or flawed, clearly it is when you have to tune in a specific way and ignore parts of the game PD have given to us. The whole point of the PP is to match cars that are vastly different, you shouldn't have to evenly tune them. If you do that just suggests the PP formula doesn't work properly.

 

[Zuel]

Correction the the 135i is the only car that has a stage 1.

I still don't see how any of this proves the PP system isn't broken or flawed, clearly it is when you have to tune in a specific way and ignore parts of the game PD have given to us. The whole point of the PP is to match cars that are vastly different, you shouldn't have to evenly tune them. If you do that just suggests the PP formula doesn't work properly.

How can you prove that yourself with out doing the research and testing? How can anyone? Testing and research proves all and is one step of getting the PP correct.

(addition)

All I see is some people ranting on why not to try. And few hopping to pick me apart because I challenge them and you.

 

[Samus]

How could you prove that yourself with out doing the research and testing? How can anyone? Testing and research proves all and is one step of getting the PP correct.

Prove what? People have already shown quite conclusively that many cars have a terrible balance with PP and you claimed yourself that is because of how people tune cars, they use stage 3 turbos and superchargers. You then said to get even cars you can't use that, ergo there is a problem with the PP system if it doesn't work properly when you use the game to it's full effect.

Another point you keep going on about testing and research, last time I checked we were gamers and not the ones required to do that, PD are. We shouldn't have to test and research the PP system and work out what parts of it are flawed.

 

[Zuel]

Prove what? People have already shown quite conclusively that many cars have a terrible balance with PP and you claimed yourself that is because of how people tune cars, they use stage 3 turbos and superchargers. You then said to get even cars you can't use that, ergo there is a problem with the PP system if it doesn't work properly when you use the game to it's full effect.

Another point you keep going on about testing and research, last time I checked we were gamers and not the ones required to do that, PD are. We shouldn't have to test and research the PP system and work out what parts of it are flawed.

For one I never said to do test and research on the pp system. All I asked was to test the new system in a different manner rather than fully tuning the cars with a stage 3. Yes people have stated that there are a number of cars that are very unstable with a stage 3 motor or turbo or a supercharger with the OLD system. No one has yet to bring forth any results from the new system beside myself. I've already stated that some cars maybe a number or two in or out of a group. to change that just add a stage 2 motor. And that I still testing to bring FORTH more finds. I gave two results of my testing and so far no one has compared. Only try to pick apart the new system buy judging it and the pp grouping system that shows the group and ect.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As players we always need to adapt to the game when we play them. Unless we are talking about glitch, bugs and non fixable error.

The new PP needs a different approach in tuning and we need to find out how to balance car performance within the same PP limit. Instead of complaining and do nothing about it, maybe tuners and race hosts can find a PP limit and tire combination that will work well online, try to reduce the usual PP limits by 30 or 35, example : 400 to 375 CM tire, 500 to 465 CS tire, 550 to 515 SH tire, 600 to 565 SM tire.

If one of these PP limit works, I am sure many people will use them.

 

[Samus]

For one I never said to do test and research on the pp system. All I asked was to test the new system in a different manner rather than fully tuning the cars with a stage 3.

Holy contradiction batman.

No one has yet to bring forth any results from the new system beside myself.

Erm, yes they have.

I've already stated that some cars maybe a number or two in or out of a group. to change that just add a stage 2 motor. And that I still testing to bring FORTH more finds. I gave two results of my testing and so far no one has compared. Only try to pick apart the new system buy judging it and the pp grouping system that shows the group and ect.

You're not following, are you? You claim that the PP system is fine and it's all our fault but then you say that we have to adapt to it and only use certain tuning parts because if we use others, cars aren't matched. Again, holy contradiction batman.

The PP system shouldn't need players to adapt or test anything, it's supposed to just work whether you put a stage 3 turbo, a stage 2 weight reduction or whatever to get to a PP figure.

Yes, some cars are always going to be slightly out of line and it's going to vary on different tracks but there is a huge discrepancy with many cars in this new system, there have been several examples which you then just reply to with "don't use a stage 3 turbo".

The update said:

Adjusted Performance Point (PP) calculations to correct an issue where the speed of cars in races with PP restrictions would be unfairly set.

It didn't say:

Adjusted Performance Point (PP) calculations to correct an issue where the speed of cars in races with PP restrictions would be unfairly set. However please don't put stage 3 engine upgrades on your cars because then the speed of cars will still be unfairly set. You'll need to step tune your cars to get a good balance.

 

[Mulan]

I must say, Zuel has good points. The problem in a major update like this is not the players but PD. They just made a big change without closer explanation to how they actually came to the conclusion about why some cars got so much PP change.
Can it be a fault or can it be that PD actually know what they are doing?
Isn't a tune supposed to alter a car so it becomes more dominant. At each PP there will be some cars that are dominant. The thing for me is at which PP number is the most competitive or has the most number of competitive cars at the same time. Is it 456, 509, 400? That is the number i want to tune.And i guess this is mostly for roadcars since racecars are already set to match eachother from start.

 

[Zuel]

Holy contradiction batman.



Erm, yes they have.



You're not following, are you? You claim that the PP system is fine and it's all our fault but then you say that we have to adapt to it and only use certain tuning parts because if we use others, cars aren't matched. Again, holy contradiction batman.

The PP system shouldn't need players to adapt or test anything, it's supposed to just work whether you put a stage 3 turbo, a stage 2 weight reduction or whatever to get to a PP figure.

Yes, some cars are always going to be slightly out of line and it's going to vary on different tracks but there is a huge discrepancy with many cars in this new system, there have been several examples which you then just reply to with "don't use a stage 3 turbo".

Has you or anyone else shared any results from the new system? Or have the results so far have been from the old system. And why peoples stables are all over the place.
If so compile them in one comment.

 

[Mulan]

Holy contradiction batman.



Erm, yes they have.



You're not following, are you? You claim that the PP system is fine and it's all our fault but then you say that we have to adapt to it and only use certain tuning parts because if we use others, cars aren't matched. Again, holy contradiction batman.

The PP system shouldn't need players to adapt or test anything, it's supposed to just work whether you put a stage 3 turbo, a stage 2 weight reduction or whatever to get to a PP figure.

Yes, some cars are always going to be slightly out of line and it's going to vary on different tracks but there is a huge discrepancy with many cars in this new system, there have been several examples which you then just reply to with "don't use a stage 3 turbo".

The update said:



It didn't say:

What i dont get is at which PP this is? Is it at 400, 500, 800? Some cars are freaks

 

[Samus]

Has you or anyone else shared any results from the new system? Or have the results so far have been from the old system. And why peoples stables are all over the place.
If so compile them in one comment.

Yes, they have.

Why should I have to compile everything, are you unable to read the whole thread?

What i dont get is at which PP this is? Is it at 400, 500, 800? Some cars are freaks

Eh? It doesn't matter what PP a car is, they're supposed to be evenly matched when at similar numbers, that's the whole point of the system. Yes some cars will stand out but that's where PD should then come in and individually tweak those cars.

 

[Tornado]

Has you or anyone else shared any results from the new system?

You quoted someone who was sharing results from the new system showing how massive the horsepower difference is between supposedly balanced cars. It was in one of your "well, that car has stage 3 tuning so your opinion is invalid" rants.

If so compile them in one comment.

How about you do it. It's not anyone's fault but your own that you've been so ******re about how wrong everyone else is about how the new PP is balanced that you've ignored or fobbed off all of the posts that show examples that suggest otherwise.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Zeul let me try to clear up a couple of things for you.

1. No one disagrees that under the old or the new system, how you added/subtracted parts, used the power limiter, which parts you added etc., all makes a difference as to where you end up at a given PP level. This has been well known since day 1. Tune one way and you might have 375 hp at 500 PP. Tune another way and you might have 424 PP at 500PP. Anyone familiar with tuning knows this already and no one is disagreeing with the validity of that statement. You can put that one away.

2. The issue at hand is that no one, including you, has yet to find a way to take most of the cars in the game and challenge the new ringers in the game, like the Supra, like the big Merc, like the other FR cars that got 100, 200+ HP boosts at the common PP race settings like 450/500/550 etc.

Show us how to use your methods to make that NSX above or any other non -FR, compete with the Supra that has 150 hp more, the Merc that has 250 more hp etc. No one has yet figured it out. If you can figure it out, you'll be a hero and have our undying gratitude. Even on stock tires the new standard times at various PP levels are dropping 10-15 seconds in some cars at the Ring. And that's comparing these new Ringers to the best of the old times. Compared to their own former lap times, some have gained 25+ seconds.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=260349

 

[Zuel]

At Johnny and SimonK, both links you have shared are comments about the new system making changed to old cars. Nothing there states anything on a new car.

 

[Samus]

At Johnny and SimonK, both links you have shared are comments about the new system making changed to old cars. Nothing there states anything on a new car.

What has that got to do with anything? The PP changed, not the cars.

 

[Johnnypenso]

At Johnny and SimonK, both links you have shared are comments about the new system making changed to old cars. Nothing there states anything on a new car.

LOL..I give up dude, I'm talking apples and you are talking potato chips. I don't think we're on the same page if that's all you got out of my post.

 

[Zuel]

What has that got to do with anything? The PP changed, not the cars.

If that's what you think or feel.

I don't think we're on the same page if that's all you got out of my post.

I understood just fine.

 

[Samus]

So wait, what you're telling me now is that if before the update I built a car and it had say 500pp, and now after the update it has 470pp if I build that exact same car after the update it won't come out at 470pp, exactly the same?

Because if so you're saying that not only can you not use all of the tuning options when tuning your car you also have to scrap over a years worth of car building and tuning and start from scratch with new cars?

Yet still you say this new PP update isn't flawed.