Used cars dealership in Gran Turismo 7

[o000o]

Indeed, I’m convinced that the UCD in GT5 was more of a “dumping ground” for the numerous standard models that were largely from the PS2 era. Including models like the Nissan R390, or the Toyota GT-One (TS020).

Why people only bring up GT5's UCD when talking (or rather, criticizing) about UCDs now?

 

[NICKname]

We could also bring up GT4's UCDs, which weren't partially a 'dumping ground for standard cars', but still cluttered with useless and/or superfluous cars. Especially those JDM cars which had dozens of variants. Quite annoying if you wanted a used (and useful) European or American car.

 

[Samus]

Have to bear in mind that if (and it is still quite a bit if) that Japanese booklet is correct then there will only be ~120 cars day 1 from before 2011, and since a chunk of those seem to be appearing in the Brighton Antiques, the number of cars in the UCD could be a fair bit under 100.

Unless they appear in both. But still, ~120 cars at the most is going to be quite different compared to the 800 from GT5.

 

[05XR8]

Certainly, but then, and I’m not being sly/silly, many of those cars(duplicates, fakes, etc.) as we know, were filler for the series. The more realistic or less cluttered 100 hundred or so used cars will be enough for a start.

If we look at the past games and just pick one model for each, it’d be like GT1 and GT3 and GTS car numbers. What GT1 did, was make the car list bigger with RMs. Now, having the means of proper customisation(for those that choose to customise), may help to ease the feel of less cars than the past.

If we’re getting a 356 Coupe & Speedster, 930T, 964, 993, 996, 997, 991, KPGC10, R32, R33, R34, Corvette C2, C3, C4, C7, ‘65 Mustang, ‘69 Mustang, ‘71 Mustang, ‘15 Mustang, ‘20 Mustang, AE86, FT86, GR86, A70 Supra, A80 Supra, A90 Supra and so on with other brands, we‘re not missing out on much. Some of those gaps may yet get filled.

I guess at this stage… and trust, I can understand some frustration/concern about what used cars we are left to receive… I’m not worried about what we get. No one have to answer this, but what’s there to be concerned about? What’s the right used car to include? 100 of a random selection are still plenty.

Put it this way, looking at a real world “usedcar.com”, it’s probably mostly SUVs and pick ups. Small economy cars and family sedans/wagons and vans. Sports sedans and then, sports cars, at the bottom.
Past GTs gave us a normal van, a handful of wagons, normal & sports sedans, a few Pick ups and some concept SUVs. To cover all those in the GT7 UCD, would maybe take about 15 vehicles. Kei cars would possibly require some thought. I think we only had a low count in GT3 & GT5P. GTS only had the three.
PD may add pick ups and SUVs and wagons at a later date, if none are available on debut.

 

[o000o]

We could also bring up GT4's UCDs, which weren't partially a 'dumping ground for standard cars', but still cluttered with useless and/or superfluous cars. Especially those JDM cars which had dozens of variants. Quite annoying if you wanted a used (and useful) European or American car.

The only one that is out of any other car's league (other than black LM cars) was V8 Vantage there. Otherwise the others aren't much superior to the 276 hp JDMs except TVR Cerbera/Griffith. To assume European/American car as inherently useful and that JDM are inherently useless is just hate boner.

If we look at the past games and just pick one model for each, it’d be like GT1 and GT3 and GTS car numbers. What GT1 did, was make the car list bigger with RMs. Now, having the means of proper customisation(for those that choose to customise), may help to ease the feel of less cars than the past.

GT1 has easily the most Japanese centric car list despite the complaint being thrown into other GT games, even with RM I still don't feel more variation (other than buying the variants and getting different looking RMs). Otherwise GT6 has around 1064 car list without duplicates.

 

[05XR8]

The only one that is out of any other car's league (other than black LM cars) was V8 Vantage there. Otherwise the others aren't much superior to the 276 hp JDMs except TVR Cerbera/Griffith. To assume European/American car as inherently useful and that JDM are inherently useless is just hate boner.

GT1 has easily the most Japanese centric car list despite the complaint being thrown into other GT games, even with RM I still don't feel more variation (other than buying the variants and getting different looking RMs). Otherwise GT6 has around 1064 car list without duplicates.

Right. We’re dealing with a smaller car list. Like the previous games I mentioned. What car models and/or variations would be chosen for the UCD? NA/NB/NC Roadster. What variation are you looking for, in a UCD of approximately 100 cars? One generation Roadster, One generation RX-7? One generation 911?

 

[NICKname]

The only one that is out of any other car's league (other than black LM cars) was V8 Vantage there. Otherwise the others aren't much superior to the 276 hp JDMs except TVR Cerbera/Griffith. To assume European/American car as inherently useful and that JDM are inherently useless is just hate boner.

I don't think that JDM cars are quite as useful for the European and American events as actual European and American cars.

Even if they were, GT4's UCDs still have awful variety and too much useless cars. Not just useless when it comes to specific events, but also in general. There are cars in there that are too slow for the Sunday Cup. There is absolutely zero reason to have those. Even if you'd remove the duplicates, GT4, GT5 and GT6 still feature way too many cars that either serve no purpose whatsoever or wouldn't be missed if they weren't in the game.

The selection of cars in a video game should serve to create fun gameplay and not to create a cool number. Scrolling through a list of JDM car variants when all you want a cheap car for the Schwarzwald Liga is not fun gameplay, and there's not a single cool number in the world that can help at that point. If you want to see 1000 cars you won't ever use, just spend an afternoon clicking through Wikipedia and let PD spend their time, money and effort on cars that best serve the gameplay. If only a quarter of the game's car are from 2011 or earlier, perhaps it's because the game will heavily focus on contemporary cars and racing. We'll see.

 

[ScottPuss20]

We could also bring up GT4's UCDs, which weren't partially a 'dumping ground for standard cars', but still cluttered with useless and/or superfluous cars. Especially those JDM cars which had dozens of variants. Quite annoying if you wanted a used (and useful) European or American car.

Not all of them were useless. Some had special wheels and colours.

 

[o000o]

Right. We’re dealing with a smaller car list. Like the previous games I mentioned. What car models and/or variations would be chosen for the UCD? NA/NB/NC Roadster. What variation are you looking for, in a UCD of approximately 100 cars? One generation Roadster, One generation RX-7? One generation 911?

GT7's car list, for 420+, would be similar to GT6's Premium cars only, which sits at 447 (and GT5 would be more similar to GT1/GT3/GTS, albeit more, at around 200 Premiums, and you see that the Premium Skylines are similar to the ones provided in GTS).

Actually yeah I'd be confused on how GT7 will handle UCD (and the new car) if the car list is moderate, not enormous (like GT4) but not small (like GT1/GTS). I thought GT7 can have huge car list with UCD but actually not.

I don't think that JDM cars are quite as useful for the European and American events as actual European and American cars.

Even if they were, GT4's UCDs still have awful variety and too much useless cars. Not just useless when it comes to specific events, but also in general. There are cars in there that are too slow for the Sunday Cup. There is absolutely zero reason to have those. Even if you'd remove the duplicates, GT4, GT5 and GT6 still feature way too many cars that either serve no purpose whatsoever or wouldn't be missed if they weren't in the game.

The selection of cars in a video game should serve to create fun gameplay and not to create a cool number. Scrolling through a list of JDM car variants when all you want a cheap car for the Schwarzwald Liga is not fun gameplay, and there's not a single cool number in the world that can help at that point. If you want to see 1000 cars you won't ever use, just spend an afternoon clicking through Wikipedia and let PD spend their time, money and effort on cars that best serve the gameplay. If only a quarter of the game's car are from 2011 or earlier, perhaps it's because the game will heavily focus on contemporary cars and racing. We'll see.

There are both European/American events and there are Japanese events (not to mention manufacturer evnets). So the cars are just useful in their own respective fields.

And regarding cars that are "useless" and "absolutely zero reason to have", then what? Gotta turn GT into something typical in any other racing games to only feature the most popular supercars or tuners, practically pulling an NFS?

Even real life itself doesn't only have race events that only contains "useful" cars to participate, like the part of comment you ignore in the 500 car thread; events like 24 hours of Lemons and ChumpCar are a thing which is popular and can be what some players consider fun in game. And there are also those who organize events to race Kei cars. It's not about making the game popular or such, it's just that GT is a car nut game, a playable car encyclopedia. That's why there's cars from every decade and type in the game. Kaz put in that elaborate intro showcasing the production and history of the automobile as well as included all of those historical cards in that one section. It's about the beauty of the automobile. So it's only obvious that they'll include cars from all walks of life, and various types of Motorsport.

It’s rather selfish to make a petition of “I don’t like X car, therefore it should be removed. The fans of it be damned.” Every car is someone’s favourite car, from everyday cars, sports cars, supercars, race cars, rally cars, SUV's, trucks, as well as the weird and wacky ones, so who are you to tell them they shouldn’t be allowed to drive it?

 

[05XR8]

Going to be interesting.

Including some cars from the cars from ‘70s and earlier:

Toyota Sports 800 ‘65
Honda S800 ‘66
Mini Cooper S ‘65
C3 Convertible ‘69
Boss 429 ‘69
Challenger ‘70
VW 1200 ‘66

These cars are under 100,000 Cr. in GTS. The Mini and Beetle are icons, but not sure they’d be placed in Brighton Antiques. Maybe they will be, but a Beetle isn’t exactly rare and Minis can be found all over the world as well. Could bump the UCD to about 60-65 cars, with the car list as is(per gtp car list guide).

We also know the Ford GT ‘17 won’t be in the UCD and it’s certainly not an antique. This might be what I was hav8ng a rethink about, as the Home Garage.

The car covers could be a way of labelling them as favourites. Or maybe they’re gift cars unwrapped?

 

[NICKname]

There are both European/American events and there are Japanese events (not to mention manufacturer evnets). So the cars are just useful in their own respective fields.

And regarding cars that are "useless" and "absolutely zero reason to have", then what? Gotta turn GT into something typical in any other racing games to only feature the most popular supercars or tuners, practically pulling an NFS?

Even real life itself doesn't only have race events that only contains "useful" cars to participate, like the part of comment you ignore in the 500 car thread; events like 24 hours of Lemons and ChumpCar are a thing which is popular and can be what some players consider fun in game. And there are also those who organize events to race Kei cars. It's not about making the game popular or such, it's just that GT is a car nut game, a playable car encyclopedia. That's why there's cars from every decade and type in the game. Kaz put in that elaborate intro showcasing the production and history of the automobile as well as included all of those historical cards in that one section. It's about the beauty of the automobile. So it's only obvious that they'll include cars from all walks of life, and various types of Motorsport.

You're completely missing the point I'm making.

The simple fact that the game also features events that are exclusively open to Japanese cars doesn't mean that those cars aren't severly overrepresented in the UCD. It's not even as if the Japanese hall has more events than the European and American halls. Similarly, there's no good reason to have so many Kei cars in them when Kei cars can only really be used in one or two events. Why add cars to the game that do not serve the gameplay?

The only games in the series that were truly 'playable car encyclopedias' were GT5 and GT6, and it is very noticable. In a bad way. GT6 especially. It has 1300 cars, half of which look awful, and a painful career mode which is little more than random, ridiculously easy races strung together by ridiculously easy license tests and special events. GT6 bombed. The niche audience that was only in it for the cars and relatively pretty graphics wasn't enough to make it a success. I loved GT6 when it came out, but it was very bad for the series. The general public either turned away after GT5 or would've turned away after GT Sport essentially rebooted the series. Gran Turismo is a racing game, just like any other game, that carries a certain charm with it because it is more or less the only racing game that pays attention to detail to things outside of the racing itself. That doesn't mean it should be filled up with cars that do not serve the game's core gameplay. I'm sure that there are people who like racing slow cars beyond the mandatory career mode events, but they are a niche audience. Modelling cars for the PS4 and PS5 takes far too much time, money and effort to appeal to niche audiences.

My main point is that variety and quality are far more important than quantity, and that the former two have been seriously lacking in the UCDs in GT4 and GT5. Since quality is subjective, but also important considering the earlier mentioned limited amount of time, money and effort, the cars should primarily be selected based on their usefulness for the core gameplay and secondarily on their usefulness for the other things that most players will want to do (e.g. looking good for scapes). The esoteric taste of a small number of enthousiasts should only come after that. Not because their opinions are less important, but because their interests are simply not what the game is about at its core. It's a racing game. A true series of games for car nuts would never consistently end up in the lists of the best selling PlayStation games of all time.

It’s rather selfish to make a petition of “I don’t like X car, therefore it should be removed. The fans of it be damned.” Every car is someone’s favourite car, from everyday cars, sports cars, supercars, race cars, rally cars, SUV's, trucks, as well as the weird and wacky ones, so who are you to tell them they shouldn’t be allowed to drive it?

This has nothing to do with anything I wrote.

 

[Dave A]

@NICKname I agree that the UCD in GT5 was ill concieved and the quality of the game was all over the place due to the cross-generational use of assets from GT4. However the UCD in GT4 was great, it had plenty of variety, it just depends what you specifically want/are looking for.

I enjoyed browsing the 3 different UCD's in GT4 though, the idea of them being mostly run of the mill every day cars with a smattering of more exotic/interesting rarer cars was one of the things I liked about it. And there's nothing wrong with run of the mill every day cars, it's been a hallmark of Gran Turismo since GT1.

However I do agree with this part of what you said "the cars should primarily be selected based on their usefulness for the core gameplay and secondarily on their usefulness for the other things that most players will want to do (e.g. looking good for scapes). The esoteric taste of a small number of enthousiasts should only come after that." However, I'd like to add that usefulness for the core gameplay is something PD have control over, they can create events challenges that make however much or little use of whatever cars they select, so there's no excuse for cars to feel useless in any Gran Turismo game regardless of what cars are picked for inclusion.

It's a bit of a two way thought process, picking cars that will be useful enough to warrent inclusion and making sure the game featuers enough ways to use each car that's chosen to be included. Like you said, a couple of dozen Kei cars useful for 3 races is questionable, but finding more ways to use those cars isn't beyond the realms of posability.

 

[MIE1992]

@NICKname I agree that the UCD in GT5 was ill concieved and the quality of the game was all over the place due to the cross-generational use of assets from GT4. However the UCD in GT4 was great, it had plenty of variety, it just depends what you specifically want/are looking for.

I enjoyed browsing the 3 different UCD's in GT4 though, the idea of them being mostly run of the mill every day cars with a smattering of more exotic/interesting rarer cars was one of the things I liked about it. And there's nothing wrong with run of the mill every day cars, it's been a hallmark of Gran Turismo since GT1.

However I do agree with this part of what you said "the cars should primarily be selected based on their usefulness for the core gameplay and secondarily on their usefulness for the other things that most players will want to do (e.g. looking good for scapes). The esoteric taste of a small number of enthousiasts should only come after that." However, I'd like to add that usefulness for the core gameplay is something PD have control over, they can create events challenges that make however much or little use of whatever cars they select, so there's no excuse for cars to feel useless in any Gran Turismo game regardless of what cars are picked for inclusion.

It's a bit of a two way thought process, picking cars that will be useful enough to warrent inclusion and making sure the game featuers enough ways to use each car that's chosen to be included. Like you said, a couple of dozen Kei cars useful for 3 races is questionable, but finding more ways to use those cars isn't beyond the realms of posability.

Ideally, I'd both model the campaign and online modes to incentivize the use of as many models as possible, even if they're something like two different Group C cars within Gr.1.

I also feel like there are a lot of variants that I'd personally include for being just different enough, either mechanically or aesthetically. I'm not endorsing stuff like the fact that GT4 had multiple cars where the model year or market was the only difference, like you could see with the Z33 or R34. But I'd definitely be more interested in certain variants, like the versions of those two cars tuned by Nismo. I'd expand that to pretty much all sorts of tuners - especially ones closely associated with the automakers - between TRD/GR, STI like with the BRZ tS, and Mugen to name some examples.

But I think I'm digressing a bit. I think the UCD's inclusion (and also BA) is mostly a matter of UI/UX, with immersion being a secondary factor rather than primary. My hypothesis is that games that generally have less cars lack a UCD - such as GT3, or GTS at launch - because you can fit most if not all the cars in the main "dealership" menu without it getting too cluttered. Now that GT7 will include both new cars, all the cars from GTS, and likely additional cars in the form of content updates, the UCD (and now BA) also seem comparatively necessary. I foresee that when GT7 gets its content updates, it could be that newly-added cars don't simply appear in the dealership, but could also start appearing in the UCD or BA, as well, especially depending on the model.

My main hope for the UCD in GT7 is that we can both still see how many miles we've driven with the car ourselves, but also to potentially still pick the car's color(s) somehow, either via the UCD or by having a car appear in both the UCD and the main dealership, where if you buy it from the former, you can potentially get it for cheaper. But I doubt the cars in the UCD will also appear in the main dealership, too. With the many colors available on some models, this could at least offer the UCD more stuff to rotate through.

 

[05XR8]

For sure. As we’ve seen with GTS, Kei cars could be added later, new Toyota GR models added, updated race cars, etc. That’s probably the good thing. Especially, if this game will last 4 years or more.

 

[MIE1992]

For sure. As we’ve seen with GTS, Kei cars could be added later, new Toyota GR models added, updated race cars, etc. That’s probably the good thing. Especially, if this game will last 4 years or more.

We could get both a kei car and a GR model in the same car, haha! I recall there being a Daihatsu Copen with the GR label. But as for other kei-cars, I'd really want to see the return of the Mazda Autozam AZ-1 if it's not there at launch. I'd also want that Copen I mentioned, or at least one iteration of the new Copen that the Daihatsu VGT is based off of. I can't say I'd mind the return of the OFC-1 Concept, either.

But other than that, I can't really think of any other kei cars I'd want to see. Was the Suzuki Cappuccino a kei car?

EDIT: As for other race cars, I mentioned in a thread on the new Nissan Z that I'd love for PD to pick a GT500 year where we have the GR Supra, the new Z, and the updated second-gen NSX all at once. And if we could get stuff like LMDh/LMH cars, too, that'd be amazing, for various automakers to get either their first Gr.1 car or have another option. This is before we consider the prospect of the VGT program continuing, especially as some automakers seemingly join without much notice, like Genesis. Frankly, I'd love for the Manufacturers Series to either include Gr.1, or for there to be more Gr.1 races in the Nations Cup that limits which Gr.1 cars you can use, as to avoid always going for meta picks. For example, I recall there being some GTS Daily Races that only permitted the Group C cars within Gr.1.

 

[05XR8]

Yes. There’s a GR Copen. That’s relatively new. However, if the car isn’t rare, we may see a balance of pre & post 2011 cars per update. I don’t know, but obviously, there are more used cars than new cars in the world. So, I think PD would have fun introducing cars to the UCD.

 

[o000o]

Similarly, there's no good reason to have so many Kei cars in them when Kei cars can only really be used in one or two events. Why add cars to the game that do not serve the gameplay?

No, but if you base a car's worth based on how fast it is, I'm just pointing out about how real life had events that organized racing for cars that you think are unsuitable for racing too. Why you keep ignoring the examples of real life racing with "useless cars"? I hate removing features in any game whenever it's "useless" or not (only removing outright detrimental ones like credit limit), the important thing is to not have it be forced upon the player and just leave it as a choice for them, and and I'd prefer if the problem is approached in different way other than removing.

The only games in the series that were truly 'playable car encyclopedias' were GT5 and GT6, and it is very noticable. In a bad way. GT6 especially. It has 1300 cars, half of which look awful, and a painful career mode which is little more than random, ridiculously easy races strung together by ridiculously easy license tests and special events. GT6 bombed. The niche audience that was only in it for the cars and relatively pretty graphics wasn't enough to make it a success. I loved GT6 when it came out, but it was very bad for the series.

And none of everything you mentioned are about how being car encyclopedia is terrible except of implementing Standard cars (yeah that'd mean PD's manpower can only produce 447 high-quality cars for PS3, and 152 semi Premiums), and even then other than PS3 architecture PD had some blame on this not due to "bruh stop giving many cars", but about PD not wanting to even go for a middle ground between quality and quantity, instead creating ultra detailed cars that they thought would be future proof, which turned out that PS3 cars weren't. On top of that, they decided they would all be done in house, no outsourcing, the sensible decision. The problem is PD's stubbornness to do everything in house and their lack of manpower (I've repeatedly talked about PD having small number of employees) here, of which at least PD outsourced now (dunno about PD's hiring spree though).

For others, painful career mode? I don't even praise GT6's career mode here, I also think the career mode there is poor. More cars should be actually more potential to add up more varied races and events, such as 1 Lap Magic in GT4 that is also about car reunion, but GT5 and GT6 instead have half the events GT4 have and that's by no means a praise for me, instead it's one of the odd decisions I got confused about GT (probably due to gamers getting older and having less time, thus they minimize the games so they can complete it... uhh like there are no time limit in completing games, I don't like games nowadays being minimized for older folks. That isn't the blame of putting many cars in game, it's just them not knowing what they're doing for implementing offline mode. The other problem would be PD having outdated structure, but changing career structure is separate problem from car amount.

The general public either turned away after GT5 or would've turned away after GT Sport essentially rebooted the series. Gran Turismo is a racing game, just like any other game, that carries a certain charm with it because it is more or less the only racing game that pays attention to detail to things outside of the racing itself. That doesn't mean it should be filled up with cars that do not serve the game's core gameplay. I'm sure that there are people who like racing slow cars beyond the mandatory career mode events, but they are a niche audience. Modelling cars for the PS4 and PS5 takes far too much time, money and effort to appeal to niche audiences.

Ignoring about how GTS had mixed reception too among good number of gamers due to the radical departure over the original series. Either due to its initial car roster being mostly made up of racing models, lack of single player content, lack of tuning, etc. It's iirc only arounf 15% too among GTS player fanbase that touched Sport Mode. And that GTS got better reception and rdue to GT re-igniting some of its offline aspects and/or old formula of GT in GTS like adding more production and tuner models, etc.

About cars serving game's core gameplay or not, again for above, it's about poorly implementing offline mode, due to either minimizing the game or keeping old structure. And for car serving in game's core gameplay or not, it's not even always the "slow, useless" cars, it can be something like Ferrari F2007 and F10 on GT5 (F1 cars, means superior to most of cars in game), that is practically unusable. Probably start addressing different root of problems and/or solutions instead of pushing personal agenda of only blindly blaming it all on car amount while ignoring everything else.

My main point is that variety and quality are far more important than quantity, and that the former two have been seriously lacking in the UCDs in GT4 and GT5. Since quality is subjective, but also important considering the earlier mentioned limited amount of time, money and effort, the cars should primarily be selected based on their usefulness for the core gameplay and secondarily on their usefulness for the other things that most players will want to do (e.g. looking good for scapes).

Don't know why people think everything must be mutually exclusive and compromising. I'd want if the game aims for both quality and quantity/variety as possible as it can. Like sure the game had to make sure the quality of the car is top notch, but doesn't mean that the game had to keep the car amount set at certain low number and not adding anything after that for only "quality" and "no quantity". I'm also one of those that thinks lowly of GT5's UCD, so don't bring that up as if I supported that.

The esoteric taste of a small number of enthousiasts should only come after that. Not because their opinions are less important, but because their interests are simply not what the game is about at its core. It's a racing game. A true series of games for car nuts would never consistently end up in the lists of the best selling PlayStation games of all time.

Besides the game is also branded as "Whether you’re a competitive racer, collector, fine-tuning builder, livery designer, photographer or arcade fan – ignite your personal passion for cars with features inspired by the past, present and future of Gran Turismo™". The new feature advertised in GT7 is even about car collecting instead of hardcore competitive racing, in GT Cafe. Be a purist as much as you want, but either way you're really not the one to decide the core of a game or such, and you have no right to force people's views or interests regarding "the core of the game".

This has nothing to do with anything I wrote.

Well, about you determining about what "fun gameplay" is and/or what content suitable only for your view there, or deciding what is "absolutely zero reason to have", or which audience is "niche" or not (which of course, you'd have bloated sense of self-importance thus claiming anyone like-minded as the major one and the one opposing you as niche, of course so at least you'd get preferential treatment, others be damned), and presenting those as if it's objective fact. Speak for yourself, don't speak for anyone else.

 

[MIE1992]

Yes. There’s a GR Copen. That’s relatively new. However, if the car isn’t rare, we may see a balance of pre & post 2011 cars per update. I don’t know, but obviously, there are more used cars than new cars in the world. So, I think PD would have fun introducing cars to the UCD.

Indeed. I'm thinking it'll be a mix of old and new cars on both sides of 2011, but also both cars new to GT and ones that may've skipped Sport, like how we can see the return of the Mercedes-Benz CLK-LM, as well as the debut of the BAC Mono.

 

[NICKname]

@o000o

You keep pretending that I'm some dumb meanie who's on a misguided crusade to determine what people cannot do in Gran Turismo. It proves that you do not understand the points I have been making.

You also claim that GT Sport was poorly received and that it made people turn away from the series, because it isn't like the old games. GT Sport is one of the best selling PS4 games of all time with at least 9 million units sold as of about a year ago, and probably over 10 million units sold by now. It was a major success.

Don't be self-congratulatory about defending the right of people to enjoy games when it's completely irrelevant, don't be smug about knowing what people want from Gran Turismo when you don't even know how well-received GT Sport truly has been, and most of all don't attack someone with childish sentences such as "(which of course, you'd have bloated sense of self-importance thus claiming anyone like-minded as the major one and the one opposing you as niche, of course so at least you'd get preferential treatment, others be damned)" when they disagree with you on a frankly minor issue. Everyone else here managed to have a normal discussion with me, without attacking me or putting words in my mouth.

 

[tankuroded]

In case anyone missed it, there have been small changes in the used car menu according to the Japanese flyer:

• Decimal PP support
• Drivetrain and aspiration now added
• PP and mileage position swapped

With this and the never-before-seen two Ferraris on that, there seems to be indication that the build used to screencap the Japanese flyer is well ahead of the trailer/Behind the Scenes build(s). (There were no recording dates in the Powered by PS5 video; the last trailers before it, Tracks, had a recording date of 7 October)

 

[Sharpie]

In case anyone missed it, there have been small changes in the used car menu according to the Japanese flyer:

• Decimal PP support
• Drivetrain and aspiration now added
• PP and mileage position swapped

With this and the never-before-seen two Ferraris on that, there seems to be indication that the build used to screencap the Japanese flyer is well ahead of the trailer/Behind the Scenes build(s). (There were no recording dates in the Powered by PS5 video; the last trailers before it, Tracks, had a recording date of 7 October)

I like how ucd looks like ucd from newspaper classifieds. Top picture especially 👍

 

[Magog]

I wonder where the VGTs will go? Will they still be in the new car dealership but separated into a different category like in Sport?

 

[Imari]

It’s rather selfish to make a petition of “I don’t like X car, therefore it should be removed. The fans of it be damned.” Every car is someone’s favourite car, from everyday cars, sports cars, supercars, race cars, rally cars, SUV's, trucks, as well as the weird and wacky ones, so who are you to tell them they shouldn’t be allowed to drive it?

Which is fine, but if they're going to include these weird cars how about including events where they're a viable choice rather than a quirky way to make the AI not a complete pushover?

An SUV championship should absolutely be a thing. Same with a Kei Car championship. Hell, there should really be a "Make Your Own" Championship where whatever car you choose will be matched with a field of appropriate cars.

It's why I quite like how Forza assigns each car to a group, like Modern Sport Hatchbacks or Historic Rally. It means that you have preset groups that you can just pull from and have cars that make sense to be racing each other. There may need to be tuning and balancing to get the field roughly equal speeds, but with a PP system already in place that shouldn't really be a challenge.

It also means that it's obvious when a preset group only has one or two cars in it and therefore can't form a meaningfully diverse grid. That may be intentional, like with Formula cars, but I'd say most of the time you want at least a handful of similar cars to be able to race against each other. If you're gonna have one Kei car then you might as well have three or four so that they can race each other. Otherwise that one lonely car would probably be better used filling out some other group that needs diversity.

In case anyone missed it, there have been small changes in the used car menu according to the Japanese flyer:

• Decimal PP support
• Drivetrain and aspiration now added
• PP and mileage position swapped

The decimal PP support is just insane.

That sort of granularity adds no functional information. A 1 PP difference between cars was already basically indistinguishable, but it's understandable that that digit existed because a 9 PP difference is starting to get into the realms of meaningful. Yet they felt the need to complicate the UI and make PP harder to read and parse by adding a decimal.

Why? The only reason I can think of is so that they can brag about how accurate their new magic PP rating system is. But that doesn't help the player, that's just Polyphony waving it's sim willy around. It annoys me when developers do stuff that has no benefit for the players, because it shows that they're not really thinking about them. It's not a big deal, but it's not an improvement over having integer only PP.

 

[05XR8]

Also hoping the “Gran Turismo” Brand Central Awards cars get model years added. The Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo, Mach Forty and Fugu Z.
The Nova is classed as 1967. The Mach Forty is based on a ‘69 Mustang. The Fuguz, a ‘73 240Z. As for the Amuse S2000, I think it could be 2004 or 2005.

 

[GBalao888]

I wonder where the VGTs will go? Will they still be in the new car dealership but separated into a different category like in Sport?

I'm pretty sure all VGT's will be in Brand Central.

Also hoping the “Gran Turismo” Brand Central Awards cars get model years added. The Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo, Mach Forty and Fugu Z.
The Nova is classed as 1967. The Mach Forty is based on a ‘69 Mustang. The Fuguz, a ‘73 240Z. As for the Amuse S2000, I think it could be 2004 or 2005.

They're tuned cars, so after all, they could all be in Brand Central, as there's not many tuned vehicles to make a "Tuner Village".

The decimal PP support is just insane.

That sort of granularity adds no functional information. A 1 PP difference between cars was already basically indistinguishable, but it's understandable that that digit existed because a 9 PP difference is starting to get into the realms of meaningful. Yet they felt the need to complicate the UI and make PP harder to read and parse by adding a decimal.

Why? The only reason I can think of is so that they can brag about how accurate their new magic PP rating system is. But that doesn't help the player, that's just Polyphony waving it's sim willy around. It annoys me when developers do stuff that has no benefit for the players, because it shows that they're not really thinking about them. It's not a big deal, but it's not an improvement over having integer only PP.

Considering that Polyphony has managed to make two versions of a car's PP, the "actual" value and "simulated" one on a "hypothetical track" (the latter of which is yet to be seen).

In the more recent screenshots, they seem to have gotten rid of the car statistics scale (the measure of speed, acceleration, cornering, stability and braking), and I quite don't understand why - that could be useful, especially if you want to compare between cars of a similar PP region to see which car suits you better depending on the track or situation.

Another is that the PP system may look quite adjusted compared to GT6, as GT3 cars back then had around 590-610PP, in GT7, something like a low-to-mid tier Gr. 3 like the Porsche 911 RSR or Alfa Romeo 4C Gr. 3 would have up to 620PP (and high-tier Gr. 3 cars like the Volkswagen Beetle Gr. 3 would have up to 637PP). In this case, the Porsche 911 GT1 Strassenversion, which is said to have 633PP in the "Powered by PS5" trailer, this means it could put up a pretty good fight against the Beetle Gr. 3.

Other cars such as the Bugatti VGT (original) have 884PP, so I'm guessing the PP system will no longer cap out at 999PP and could go well beyond 1,000PP (as with the case of the SRT Tomahawks).

 

[o000o]

You also claim that GT Sport was poorly received and that it made people turn away from the series, because it isn't like the old games. GT Sport is one of the best selling PS4 games of all time with at least 9 million units sold as of about a year ago, and probably over 10 million units sold by now. It was a major success.

You're the type to ignore process and only look at results? (or you genuinely don't know how GTS was at release?) GTS eventually reached higher numbers at 2019 (the report of it being sold 8 million units), and at that time there were already several offline and old content updates, it now has significantly more road/production cars and an offline mode such as GT League (don't think it's anything good, just probably it can be a draw for some to buy). GTS after many updates are quite different to GTS at release (which was what I refer), and a good number of updates are old content seen in more typical GT to draw in the playerbase that longed for older GT experience (particularly offline go-ers).

Don't be self-congratulatory about defending the right of people to enjoy games when it's completely irrelevant,

Why is it irrelevant? I mean really GT7 was made as something not only racing even in the official description of the game itself - "Whether you’re a competitive racer, collector, fine-tuning builder, livery designer, photographer or arcade fan – ignite your personal passion for cars with features inspired by the past, present and future of Gran Turismo™" and I was pointing that out. It wasn't only talking/listing about competitive racer only.

don't be smug about knowing what people want from Gran Turismo when you don't even know how well-received GT Sport truly has been,

You only know present GTS and not GTS at release? I know the different opinons that people had formed on the game between GTS at release and present GTS (which seems to be the only one you refer to), and the process on how it can improve people's opinion about the game.

Which is fine, but if they're going to include these weird cars how about including events where they're a viable choice rather than a quirky way to make the AI not a complete pushover?

An SUV championship should absolutely be a thing. Same with a Kei Car championship. Hell, there should really be a "Make Your Own" Championship where whatever car you choose will be matched with a field of appropriate cars.

That's actually my point of using another solution to deal with those. All of those are what I want too (and I talked about GT6 being minimized as a game as complaint, it has events half GT4's numbers, also less than GT3). I always wanted for GT events to make use of as much cars as possible (and at least also varying levels like GT3 had - prefer GT2 format of listing though, so events like FR Challenge aren't merely some starter events).

At least for cars being matched with a field of appropriate cars, GTS Arcade iirc now gives rewards (Cr, etc.) after complelting a race. The AI problem though applies to any aspect of the game, not only player career. That's already obvious they should be improved that I won't need to bring that up.

It's why I quite like how Forza assigns each car to a group, like Modern Sport Hatchbacks or Historic Rally. It means that you have preset groups that you can just pull from and have cars that make sense to be racing each other. There may need to be tuning and balancing to get the field roughly equal speeds, but with a PP system already in place that shouldn't really be a challenge.

It also means that it's obvious when a preset group only has one or two cars in it and therefore can't form a meaningfully diverse grid. That may be intentional, like with Formula cars, but I'd say most of the time you want at least a handful of similar cars to be able to race against each other. If you're gonna have one Kei car then you might as well have three or four so that they can race each other. Otherwise that one lonely car would probably be better used filling out some other group that needs diversity.

What I want as well in GT. They've only touched upon this a bit in GT4's Arcade cars and GT6's Recommended Cars, but never really committed in it. Would make car division easier as well instead of listing every cars such as NASCAR race in GT6, if not for events determined by car year (like Historic Racing Car Cup) or country (like Schwarzwald Liga), and can open up aformentioned events easier like Kei (where otherwise I'd thought of Kei event in Japanese Events like GT4 or such) or SUV (where GT2 had the likes of Station Wagon Cup but obviously, as it's only given hp limit then you can use any type of cars).

 

[GTR365]

... a playable car encyclopedia.

I highly endorse this as my favorite aspect of Gran Turismo.

 

[Arthur-A]

I really hope there won't be any limitations on which car to purchase except for available in game funds (and having a particular DLC). Having to wait a day for a list of used cars to be refreshed sucks. Same as the Forza-like auction house where some a*****es list cars at ridiculous prices. GT6 did the best job when it comes to car selection. Just buy whatever you want, everything is available instantly.

 

[05XR8]

I really hope there won't be any limitations on which car to purchase except for available in game funds (and having a particular DLC). Having to wait a day for a list of used cars to be refreshed sucks. Same as the Forza-like auction house where some a*****es list cars at ridiculous prices. GT6 did the best job when it comes to car selection. Just buy whatever you want, everything is available instantly.

GT1 & GT2 allowed players to buy used cars, straight from the dealership.

 

[tankuroded]

GT1 & GT2 allowed players to buy used cars, straight from the dealership.

That is because UCD in those games are on per-manufacturer basis (you can only get cars for each specific manufacturer for each dealership) while in GT4 and GT5 it is universal.