VCRC vintage & low power :: Sunday 3pm GMT / 10am US EST

[CC570]

I had a try with the Abarth around Brands-Hatch this evening (where I do all my stock comfort-soft classic runs ), it left me with some mixed feelings about it. First of all, the cornering speed is simply insane! It corners as fast as the Europa, Dino, and Alpine 110 no doubt - i was exiting the final corner at 80mph, which although i think is completely overpowered it is nice and balanced for the most part with a tad of understeer which does make it fun.

I'm in agreement with Brandon about the gearbox though because it's a total chore. Such a long throw wouldn't be a problem in something with torque, but with a tiny 1.5 liter Abarth developed thing that makes 99% of the power between 8000 and 8005 rpm it's useless, if you hit any gradient at all when shifting from 3rd to 4th you will not continue to accelerate at all.

I sincerely hope whatever track you have planned is spirit-level flat .

We must have different cars, because mine makes max torque @4000 rpm and max power @5500 rpm. At 77hp I certainly would not call it overpowered either.

I don't know about others but I grew up around hills and have always driven small underpowered cars; forced downshifting on hills is no big deal. Certainly not on the level of a real chore like stacking wood, laundry, washing dishes etc etc etc.


Try it on the nordschliefe, they fit nicely.

 

[MC-Chase]

We must have different cars, because mine makes max torque @4000 rpm and max power @5500 rpm. At 77hp I certainly would not call it overpowered either.

I don't know about others but I grew up around hills and have always driven small underpowered cars; forced downshifting on hills is no big deal. Certainly not on the level of a real chore like stacking wood, laundry, washing dishes etc etc etc.


Try it on the nordschliefe, they fit nicely.

The RPM values aren't correct, i was just making a point that it has absolutely no power outside to the top RPM values. In terms of overpowered I was talking about it's grip, I highly doubt it should be matching the Europa around corners , it is fun though, certainly no problem with it in terms of enjoyment to drive.

In terms of downshifting I don't agree with you; if it was a case of just downshifting to max the RPM's that would be fine, but from my experience even if you shift from 3rd to 4th on the engine cut-off point if you're on any gradient at all you loose pace. This forces you to just sit there bouncing off the limiter in 3rd because shifting to 4th is not an option, and it's horrible!

 

[BrandonW77]

...if it was a case of just downshifting to max the RPM's that would be fine, but from my experience even if you shift from 3rd to 4th on the engine cut-off point if you're on any gradient at all you loose pace. This forces you to just sit there bouncing off the limiter in 3rd because shifting to 4th is not an option, and it's horrible!

That was my experience too. And I was in no way complaining about the car, it really is fun to drive and a treat to look at. I was just pointing out that certain tracks (like ones with slight hills) take some of the enjoyment out of the car. But at flat, short tracks it was great fun feeling it leeeeeeean through the corners!! IMO it just adds to the character of the car and that's why I enjoy driving these old cars so much, every one is very different and has its own personality.

EDIT: I hope my observations about the car haven't caused any rustled feathers, I was only trying to provide constructive advice.

 

[Chiochan]

This is my GTP avatar in action, always gets me laughing.

 

[BrandonW77]

 

[CC570]

The RPM values aren't correct, i was just making a point that it has absolutely no power outside to the top RPM values. In terms of overpowered I was talking about it's grip, I highly doubt it should be matching the Europa around corners , it is fun though, certainly no problem with it in terms of enjoyment to drive.

The power is lower down. If you shift from 3rd to 4th at 6000 rpm it drops you right on the max torque. All vintage cars in GT have too much grip really.* Don't really know about the Europa but Abarth was a respected tuning company and this is a small light car; why shouldn't it handle as good as the Lotus?

In terms of downshifting I don't agree with you; if it was a case of just downshifting to max the RPM's that would be fine, but from my experience even if you shift from 3rd to 4th on the engine cut-off point if you're on any gradient at all you loose pace. This forces you to just sit there bouncing off the limiter in 3rd because shifting to 4th is not an option, and it's horrible!

Shifting is always an option unless you are running AT.



* Last week I was comparing the R8 Gordini with the same car in a different sim (rfactor historix mod) running period race tires. The GT version was significantly faster (6 sec @ Autumn Hill) even with CH tires and having 6 less HP. The closest tires in GT6 as far as grip were the dirt tires on dirt.

 

[CC570]

That was my experience too. And I was in no way complaining about the car, it really is fun to drive and a treat to look at. I was just pointing out that certain tracks (like ones with slight hills) take some of the enjoyment out of the car. But at flat, short tracks it was great fun feeling it leeeeeeean through the corners!! IMO it just adds to the character of the car and that's why I enjoy driving these old cars so much, every one is very different and has its own personality.

EDIT: I hope my observations about the car haven't caused any rustled feathers, I was only trying to provide constructive advice.

Try it on the Nordschliefe. 👍
It is all about being smooth and conserving momentum. Very rewarding if a bit slow.
Don't know much about this car, but guess it was meant more to be looked at than raced. Not very nimble but quite composed for such a light car.

 

[BrandonW77]

Try it on the Nordschliefe. 👍

Between 1st and 3rd gear it's great at any track, some tracks cause it to lose speed when shifting to 4th (if it happens on an incline). That's the only point I was trying to make, this isn't a deal-breaker but merely an observation. I provided input on the last track selection, just doing the same here.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation now as I don't want our gracious host to think I was in any way complaining about the car or criticizing the selection. It has a quirky gearbox but is still very fun to drive and a pure joy to look at. I look forward to racing them. 👍

 

[MC-Chase]

T

Don't really know about the Europa but Abarth was a respected tuning company and this is a small light car; why shouldn't it handle as good as the Lotus?

Well, for starters the Lotus weighs around half as much! It also had completely independent rear suspension, though I can't confirm what the Abarth used, typically live axle was most common in the 1950's. My father has a Riley RMA which was supposedly considered sporting for a saloon car from this era and that runs a typical leaf-spring live axle affair.

Shifting is always an option unless you are running AT.

Let me rephrase; shifting is not a viable option.

The power is lower down. If you shift from 3rd to 4th at 6000 rpm it drops you right on the max torque.

Are we looking at the same dynograph ?!

 

[CC570]

Between 1st and 3rd gear it's great at any track, some tracks cause it to lose speed when shifting to 4th (if it happens on an incline). That's the only point I was trying to make, this isn't a deal-breaker but merely an observation. I provided input on the last track selection, just doing the same here.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation now as I don't want our gracious host to think I was in any way complaining about the car or criticizing the selection. It has a quirky gearbox but is still very fun to drive and a pure joy to look at. I look forward to racing them. 👍

No worries, its only conversation.

 

[watermelon punch]

Many of the old cars have odd gearing, IMHO.

OMG the vintage muscle cars.

 

[CC570]

T


Are we looking at the same dynograph ?!

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[CC570]

Many of the old cars have odd gearing, IMHO.

OMG the vintage muscle cars.

We bought an old Chevy Panel van (1980 P10 steel body) last summer. It is in top gear (3rd) at 30 mph..

 

[watermelon punch]

We bought an old Chevy Panel van (1980 P10 steel body) last summer. It is in top gear (3rd) at 30 mph..

Too bad we don't have that in GT6.
I'd be organizing a race at Suzuka for sure.

 

[BrandonW77]

Too bad we don't have that in GT6.
I'd be organizing a race at Suzuka for sure.

...............................Samba

 

[watermelon punch]

It just isn't the same as a box van.

 

[BrandonW77]

I still say...............................Samba

EDIT: I don't think I've driven a Samba Bus since the Top Gear event in GT5, I need to remedy that!

 

[Naptown25rs]

This is the answer...

 

[CC570]

This is the answer...

Thats a roller skate not a car.

 

[BrandonW77]

Thats a roller skate not a car.

Does it have an engine or is it Flintstone powered?

 

[watermelon punch]

It has a place for cargo.

I like it.

 

[BrandonW77]

It has a place for cargo.

I like it.

A lady must have room to transport her delicates!

 

[watermelon punch]

Or catbox litter.

One race I wouldn't want to see is with my shopping cart at the grocery store front ballasted with a 30lb bag of cat litter, causing a lot of understeer. One time I came close to hitting an old lady and knocking over a potato chip end cap making a hard left into the coffee aisle.

 

[BrandonW77]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who approaches piloting a shopping cart as if it's a race car. Seriously, I drift around corners and take a late apex into the aisle. Occasionally I go to a store that uses heavy damage and I get a cart that has a constant wobble in one of the front wheels, have to drive around the whole store with the cart pulling to the left. Sucks. 👎

 

[daddyo845]

Ill be there tomorrow. I'll be using deep lava red metallic/black metallic.

 

[BrandonW77]

I need a clarification on the rules. Is it legal if I bring a buddy to help me push the Carol through the tunnel at Eiger?

 

[daddyo845]

Yeah we gotta make shopping fun somehow. Too bad you can't go to the pits and fix your carts damage

 

[CC570]

I need a clarification on the rules. Is it legal if I bring a buddy to help me push the Carol through the tunnel at Eiger?

. . . I can't drive 25. . .

 

[BrandonW77]

Now I understand what was meant by laughing while racing......this was cracking me up! Same thing happens with the Fiat up the hill at Monaco.

 

[watermelon punch]

SUNDAY (19 January)
10:00 AM US EST / 03:00 PM GMT

Limbo Stick Cup
Citroen 2CV Type A '54 - 12 laps @ Gran Turismo Arena A
Subaru 360 '58 - 12 laps @ Gran Turismo Arena A Reverse
Mazda Carol 360 Deluxe '62 - 5 laps @ Eiger Nordwand Short Track
Fiat 500 F '68 - 5 laps @ Cote d’Azur
Honda Z ACT '70 - 7 laps @ Motegi Super Speedway
Notes:
Comfort Medium Tires, tuning prohibited
There will be a 5 minute qualifier for the 1st race, then Reverse Grid Order for the rest of the races.

Please everybody confirm who's coming, I seem to have lost track.



Anyway yeah, I first tried the Fiat 500 @ Cote Dazur with @jackargent - and I remember @aceboy127 joined the room while we were struggling up the hill.
Anyway the first time I did it in the shuffle lobby, I was tearing up from laughing.
Oh, and I also remember a time when @CC570 tried to use an unmodified VW Karmann Ghia on the hill at my Mount Topmore Mt Aso track. I could hear him on the mic saying, "no... no it's not going to make it..." I was cracking up.


At any rate, that's a great video because I love how you zoom in on the speed indicator.
As if to say, "Do you SEE this? Do you see it? Do you see it?"
(Okay too much watching Daily Grace. )

. . . I can't drive 25. . .

I think I got the Carol up to 58mph on Eiger during my tests.
I could be mistaken though. And it was probably after the downhill coming out of the switchbacks, somewhere after the bridge, and before the sweeping right up to the tunnel.
I think my best lap was in the high 2:13.x