Vision GT: A Great Initiative or a Dying Concept?

[HarVee]

The idea of collaborating with real manufacturers to explore ideas and possibilities is certainly a fascinating one. However the VGT project, like most else in the game, suffers from K.Y.S. (Kazunori Yamauchi Syndrome) of being an excellent idea with great potential, but ultimately becomes/became implemented in a way were it gives little benefit to the overall experience of the typical user.

Kazunori Yamauchi is a great idealist, but many of the ideas he envisions are mostly impractical. VGT, in its current state, is essentially another one of his "think big - aim small" ideas.

 

[Stylel_Code]

However the VGT project, like most else in the game, suffers from K.Y.S. (Kazunori Yamauchi Syndrome) of being an excellent idea with great potential, but ultimately becomes/became implemented in a way were it gives little benefit to the overall experience of the typical user.
Kazunori Yamauchi is a great idealist, but many of the ideas he envisions are mostly impractical. VGT, in its current state, is essentially another one of his "think big - aim small" ideas.

Interesting, I think that's true and that K.Y.S is a real thing .

 

[Noname0529]

In my opinion, it's a dying concept, because the whole project doesn't change. What I mean by this is that manufacturers usually take an already exist concept and tune it somewhat (Lexus,Subaru,Mitsubishi) or they don't seem to care (BMW, Toyota). Even if the car is insane like the Chaparral VGT or the Alpine VGT in a week or so after release, no one seems to care about the car anymore. Also just a side note, if we could actually do something with the cars, such as tuning and painting them, I feel that more people would care about them.

 

[Pseudopod]

As long as they can be tuned and have interiors, I actually do use the VGTs if I can find a good event for it.

 

[NUNOpt]

you're right @HarVee , but VGT is VGT, it cant be nor should be reviewed as something else.
there are things to complain about GT, just dont mix them with VGT, let it be what it is, sportcars design by the hand of real manufactors with total freedom. i shell say that all of them, x cars included, look very professional work, i dont see whipeout "cars" there. the problems in GT exist, i see them myself, but its not VGT, i dont think so. what harm can VGT do if not actually retain some vaule in a brand that has gotten weaker?

@Pseudopod - agree, interiors would been great and a good event editor, as i'm saying for a long time, would make all the difference.

 

[Johnnypenso]

not many but PD gave us some real cars and we have a real LMP2 coming soon.

having VGT happening, PD dont need to rush the release of too many real cars, what would they have for GT7 release?
it's a smart moove from PD to save as many new cars for GT7 as possible since "car count" will add value.

about T10, you might be right, that "prolific output", they can do it. .... somehow... with help, i think.
SMS, would decline only if for the "small budget" because VGT does good for any game brand.

What GT releases for GT7 is their problem, not mine. Hire more people if they need to, it's simply not enough real car DLC for my tastes for a modern game. Assetto Corsa's budget is created from the loose change that falls out of Kaz's pocket when he buys a latte', but they have somehow managed 10 real car DLC + the now definitive laser scanned version of the Nordschliefe just a few months after the release of the full game.

And I'd disagree about VGT doing good for any game brand. PCars is marketed as a pure racing simulator from the ground up, and I for one don't really want precious modeling resources taken up by fantasy cars. Every real car that could be modeled and is supplanted by some laser powered spaceships is a wasted slot in my garage IMO, and I'm guessing most PCars fans would feel the same way. IMO it would devalue the brand to include a rash of fantasy cars when their entire thrust to date has been the meticulously detailed creation of real cars to be driven on real tracks from around the world, through a highly sophisticated physics engine. VGT is fine as a curiousity in a game like Forza/Horiazon/GT/NFS/DriveClub, on top of a crapload of real car DLC, but as I said earlier, it's a side dish at best, not a main course, IMO of course.

 

[NUNOpt]

@Johnnypenso -i understand but i doubt PD could have donne differently so this time i go with PD.

 

[SJC ALPHA]

In my opinion, it's a dying concept, because the whole project doesn't change.

I would say that it is a vastly under used concept rather than a dying one.
I thought it would be better of having some thing along the lines of a DLC pack, you could have a past, present and future pack from a manufacturer, this could show historic cars or racers, current vehicles from their range and the concept/ vision. This would give the manufacturer brand awareness and give players a few extra vehicles, therefore everyone's happy.
This should have been so much better, and the FIA link up I fear will turn out the same, an idea poorly implemented.

 

[JDM_Tuning_S3OZ]

My thoughts of VGT's...
They're nothing but a pointless feature.

I'm sure a lot of people here would rather the time that is used to create VGT cars to have a wider variety of car customisation including engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, livery editor, increased range of body kits ect.

 

[Pseudopod]

The only thing fewer VGTs would give us is more real cars. That's enough, though.

Car modellers don't know how to program engine swaps into the game.

 

[cutmeamango]

Fewer VGT's would barely give you "real" cars. They started production at least a year ago, and for the majority of cars they are probably adapting CAD data since there's no car to scan, I doubt they'd be modelling them from scratch.

They have ~40 car modellers and the way VGTs are spaced if they have 1/5 working on them would be too much already. GT7 production started prior to GT6 release if PD follows any industry standards.

That means, most of the car modellers are likely modelling cars that they already hold the license like the Alpha 155, and likely other new cars as the GTR LMP, and they simply avoided releasing any DLC for GT6.

And hahahahahaha at Assetto Corsa "full game" mention. Assetto is pretty good, but it's as barebone as it gets. Good thing they kept at reduced price for a long while. The car/track DLC isn't any conquest, they divided them because having those licenses is expensive for them. And by their sales, if they gave it for free, it probably wouldn't cover their costs.

About the Vision project: Proximity with the industry, place to develop projects, brand synergy and colaboration, advertisement, and better relations with manufacturers who happen to be license holders. Just like the FIA partnership and Nissan/GT Academy, it starts to move GT from a "game" to a part of the automotive industry.

The rest of arguments are the usual tripe.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Fewer VGT's would barely give you "real" cars. They started production at least a year ago, and for the majority of cars they are probably adapting CAD data since there's no car to scan, I doubt they'd be modelling them from scratch.

They have ~40 car modellers and the way VGTs are spaced if they have 1/5 working on them would be too much already. GT7 production started prior to GT6 release if PD follows any industry standards.

That means, most of the car modellers are likely modelling cars that they already hold the license like the Alpha 155, and likely other new cars as the GTR LMP, and they simply avoided releasing any DLC for GT6.

And hahahahahaha at Assetto Corsa "full game" mention. Assetto is pretty good, but it's as barebone as it gets. Good thing they kept at reduced price for a long while. The car/track DLC isn't any conquest, they divided them because having those licenses is expensive for them. And by their sales, if they gave it for free, it probably wouldn't cover their costs.

About the Vision project: Proximity with the industry, place to develop projects, brand synergy and colaboration, advertisement, and better relations with manufacturers who happen to be license holders. Just like the FIA partnership and Nissan/GT Academy, it starts to move GT from a "game" to a part of the automotive industry.

The rest of arguments are the usual tripe.

According to PD's own numbers of one modeler x 6 months = 1 car, that would mean 106 cars modeled since the release of GT6. Not sure how that math translates into "barely any real cars" if VGT didn't exist.

And I wasn't comparing AC to GT as a game. Two different genres, two different games. But car modeling is car modeling so we can compare that and we can compare the output of all game devs in this regard, and in relation to their budgets and size of their teams. There's no question the VGT project has supplanted a good deal of real car DLC, the numbers bear that out.

About the Vision project: Proximity with the industry, place to develop projects, brand synergy and colaboration, advertisement, and better relations with manufacturers who happen to be license holders. Just like the FIA partnership and Nissan/GT Academy, it starts to move GT from a "game" to a part of the automotive industry.

All of which is great for the manufacturers, Nissan and the FIA, but has shown little benefit to the gamer so far. These better relationships haven't produced any new and different content and arguably have supplanted a good deal of the real production and race car output we have been clamouring for for years. I might be speaking only for myself, but I don't want GT to become a part of the automotive industry, I want it to remain a game.

 

[cutmeamango]

According to PD's own numbers of one modeler x 6 months = 1 car, that would mean 106 cars modeled since the release of GT6. Not sure how that math translates into "barely any real cars" if VGT didn't exist.

And I wasn't comparing AC to GT as a game. Two different genres, two different games. But car modeling is car modeling so we can compare that and we can compare the output of all game devs in this regard, and in relation to their budgets and size of their teams. There's no question the VGT project has supplanted a good deal of real car DLC, the numbers bear that out.

They are modelling cars other than VGT because they have been scanning cars (and tracks) that are not VGTs.
Which seems to be the likely answer for them not being present in GT6?
- "Too busy modelling 15 VGTs for two years." (Which by that math, should mean they have more than enough staff to model all the VGTs in 6 months.)
- "Diverting production to GT7."

Same with tracks. Seems like Pikes Peak was planned for a while, dunno if hardware limitations or whatever held it, but it'll probably be on the next GT again. Isle of Man supposedly has been scanned too, and I doubt that they did it for GT6...
In other words, it wouldn't translate to "more real cars" because it is likely they chose not to release other cars.

And I think (don't quote me on that) Assetto's crew work over manufacturers CAD allied with picture references to model their cars, while PD, and this is something that can be argued/complained, does not like to use CADs because they may differ from actual production models in some scales/parts used. So they rather scan and model, all inhouse, compared to other developers. And if you look at GT5 -> 6 interval, PD actually has a great production/time ratio of "premium" models.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Well for one thing, the concept isn't dying.

 

[TonyJZX]

Its a case of preaching to the choir, I would have bought GT6 if they didnt have it.

No doubt Vision costs a lot of money and time to organise and but I doubt besides us, no one really cares.

How many people will stick it out all the way to end?

I see it as a monthly video magazine slash car collectors thing but it it obviously NOT A GAME. In fact I feel PD dropped the ball... why dont they have Vision seasonals? ie. races of Vision vs Vision cars?

Once a Vision car is out, its done. Have you gone back to the Subaru or Mitsu Vision cars? Also they are same-y... the Nissan vs Lexus vs. whatever swoopy rwd v8 sports couple platform... I couldnt tell you which is which without looking at the badge.

This is why Vision has been ignored by anyone less enthusiastic than us and the gaming press (not that the gaming press is worth a pile of spit).

In fact it has garnered negative reaction... eg. if someone is a casual and fires it up once every few months, they complain about needing to download hundreds of megs, if not gigs and waiting a huge amount of time for it to install.

I appreciate the extreme amount of effort and I think its unique, Microsoft wouldnt do it, no one would. Microsoft would just drop your ass after a year when they realised this is all the money they can drag out of you.

However I feel Vision is one of those things Kaz thought would be cool to do and now they committed to it, they're gonna drag it all the way to the bitter end and we'll never see its likes ever again.

GT7 will be stripped back to the roots being a new platform, engine, revamp etc. etc.

 

[another_jakhole]

My thoughts of VGT's...
They're nothing but a pointless feature.

I'm sure a lot of people here would rather the time that is used to create VGT cars to have a wider variety of car customisation including engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, livery editor, increased range of body kits ect.

Hovercraft. I don't care for engine swaps. Well, only if they charge us for the parts as much as that car was worth.

Hovercrafts though. I'd rather want that than then Red Bull collaborations. How pointless. PD would have learned nothing from any of these Red Bull and VGT projects/collaborations that contribute to "a wider variety of car customisation including engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, livery editor, increased range of body kits ect" etc.

This is why Vision has been ignored by anyone less enthusiastic than us and the gaming press (not that the gaming press is worth a pile of spit).

In fact it has garnered negative reaction... eg. if someone is a casual and fires it up once every few months, they complain about needing to download hundreds of megs, if not gigs and waiting a huge amount of time for it to install.

I can understand how a casual gamer being turned off from the THOUSANDS of megs needing to be downloaded (though they won't know why MWWHAHAHAHA). Although, you probably should have omitted that first bit relating VGT to anything that revolves around gaming. The world of car enthusiasts has actually embraced it (to a certain extent, of course). One thing VGT does is show the kind of creativity left unused in the gas tank due to stupid ol' rehgyoulaychuns. More examples are available in a post or two somewhere in this thread, I hope.

I'm of the opinion PD aren't utilizing them as much as they can be. I'm sure there are stipulations which state what can't be done with the cars, but they're usable online... against other cars so what the hell? It would be awesome to have Quick Match events for them. I sparingly use them and even less so if they don't have interiors :/
But a Quick Match event, I'd be all over it.



"GT7 will be stripped back to the roots being a new platform, engine, revamp etc. etc."
Top Gear. That was my initial thought. Then I realized, will FM6 have it? Do T10 refer to it as the airfield or TGTT? I would think the latter, considering they have that chimp reading from a script for them.

And here is why I remember why - though I find Top Gear and those chaps and chimp to be entertaining - I don't give a dookie about Top Gear's abrupt end.




The "test"...
liveleak.com/view?i=d6f_1308608835

 

[NUNOpt]

I'm sure a lot of people here would rather the time that is used to create VGT cars to have a wider variety of car customization including engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, livery editor, increased range of body kits ect.

i'm sure a lot of people here and out of here rather have VGTs now and save all that or other new content for GT7 since its very unlikely that VGTs are taking so much time to be modeled that everything else is being sacrificed. it's a business plan, good or bad, it's just a business plan, it's intentional: VGTs now, 100+ new real cars later. it's impossible to please every tastes and priorities.

Fewer VGT's would barely give you "real" cars. They started production at least a year ago, and for the majority of cars they are probably adapting CAD data since there's no car to scan, I doubt they'd be modelling them from scratch....They have ~40 car modellers and the way VGTs are spaced if they have 1/5 working on them would be too much already. GT7 production started prior to GT6 release if PD follows any industry standards.

i don't imagine VGTs delaying any "real" cars or GT7. as much as we know they could have the majority of VGTs, if not all, already modeled. i also doubt PD couldn't release a GT for PS4 right now, they choose not to as their business plan. good or bad is how they planed it. making this project with real car manufacturers adds charisma, credibility and validation to any car game brand. VGT is a great initiative that any developer would love to have in their history. GT has problems but this is not one of them.

 

[another_jakhole]

i don't imagine VGTs delaying any "real" cars or GT7. as much as we know they could have the majority of VGTs, if not all, already modeled. i also doubt PD couldn't release a GT for PS4 right now, they choose not to as their business plan. good or bad is how they planed it. making this project with real car manufacturers adds charisma, credibility and validation to any car game brand. VGT is a great initiative that any developer would love to have in their history. GT has problems but this is not one of them.

+1 to that and I need it for this in a way -

They have ~40 car modellers and the way VGTs are spaced if they have 1/5 working on them would be too much already. GT7 production started prior to GT6 release if PD follows any industry standards.

From what I remember, I believe Kaz stated car modelling uses something like 60% of PD's resources. That's a crapload more than ~40 out of ~150 employees back then when he said that (maybe a year or two after GT5). We know they've been hiring.
http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/polyphony-digital-currently-hiring-gran-turismo-7/
And this isn't including the sound engineers they asked to apply on the PitStop blog.

I figured I should bring it up. I mean 40 car modellers was around the time they were producing or releasing GT5 Prologue.