VOTE for Best French Car

[Omnis]

...Don't think FAPine would be appropriate.

 

[niky]

Agh. My vote doesn't seem set to make it, but admittedly, if I'd thought about it long and hard first, I'd have voted for the Citroen DS, too.

By the bye... this thread is so funny, I'd like to give the whole thing +rep.

 

[Danny]

C'mon people!

 

[TheCracker]

Renault have made some great Clios, but the rest of them are average (Famine would say that was being generous). You've got judge the whole car range if a particular model hasn't being offered for poling. Clio V6 or 187 Trophy are great - a 1.2RN isn't.

 

[1X83Z]

Which is why they shouldn't be there together.

Anyway - no point doing a best five thing here - we've got a runaway winner.

 

[sn00pie]

 

[sn00pie]

This car is THE BOMB!!!

 

[TheCracker]

It's a poor, French, Esprit rip-off.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

It's rarely that I think that Famine is flat-out wrong, but he is in his despisal of the Clio. I wonder if he's expecting too much of it, or if he's just got a lemon.

I've had several of them as hire cars, and would choose one in preference to the Corsa, or Fiesta without a single hesitation. Additionally, the French have always been masterful at building small, basic hatchbacks that run forever so long as you have a set of jump leads and can of WD-40 handy. We had a 13-year old Renault 5 for two years, and it cost us less than a grand, including purchase, insurance, tax and servicing.

Doug: the Veyron is simply an exercise in bludgeoning. Both technically and financially it represents little but a self-destructive refusal to give up on meeting a set of arbitrary numeric performance figures. It's like the pretty girl who goes on a diet because she's ten stone, and therefore thinks she's fat..

There's a lot more skill and intellect in developing a successful small hatchback for £8,000 than there is in building a car with larger and larger engines and more and more boost and bigger and bigger tyres until you've got a faintly ridiculous anachronism that is far and away the most expensive production car ever and is still (in spite of being in full production) haemmorhaging money.

 

[ÄŁPĨЙΣ]

my fav french car is the Peugeot 205 turbo 16 but the 205 GTi Also ROCKS!!!

 

[1X83Z]

Doug: the Veyron is simply an exercise in bludgeoning. Both technically and financially it represents little but a self-destructive refusal to give up on meeting a set of arbitrary numeric performance figures.

Maybe so - but those performance figures mean a lot to a lot of people. I totally understand why so many people are either indifferent to the vehicle, or flat out dislike it. But it's the only supercar I've ever gotten excited about. Fastest, quickest, most powerful, and most expensive... cars like these are not often manufactured. I just think it's too damn awesome to be trounced by the DS.

I really think that the gigantic lead time between announcement of production and actual production has something to do with the prevailing attitude towards the vehicle.

Here's a bold statement: I think it's hypocritical to like the McLaren F1 and not the Bugatti Veyron. They're really quite similarly-priced when adjusted for inflation, and unlike the F1, the Veyron is actually in production - Bugatti will make five times the number of Veyrons that McLaren did F1s. And though the Veyron is relatively heavy, even Gordon Murray says it's a phenomenon around a track.

Bottom line: it deserves more credit than it gets.

 

[TheCracker]

Maybe so - but those performance figures mean a lot to a lot of people. I totally understand why so many people are either indifferent to the vehicle, or flat out dislike it. But it's the only supercar I've ever gotten excited about. Fastest, quickest, most powerful, and most expensive... cars like these are not often manufactured. I just think it's too damn awesome to be trounced by the DS.

I really think that the gigantic lead time between announcement of production and actual production has something to do with the prevailing attitude towards the vehicle.

Here's a bold statement: I think it's hypocritical to like the McLaren F1 and not the Bugatti Veyron. They're really quite similarly-priced when adjusted for inflation, and unlike the F1, the Veyron is actually in production - Bugatti will make five times the number of Veyrons that McLaren did F1s. And though the Veyron is relatively heavy, even Gordon Murray says it's a phenomenon around a track.

Bottom line: it deserves more credit than it gets.

I think it gets far too much credit than it deserves. Big numbers are for kids and fan-boys.

The DS was revolutionary, especially for a car built to a budget. The Veyron is just an exercise in one-upmanship, throw as much money into a project and anything is possible. It's headline grabbing figures mean nothing in the real world, unless you are a 14 year old boy. The F1 had features never seen before on a road car and wasn't just engineered to be the 'fastest' or 'most powerful' - it just wanted to be the 'best'. The Veyron just equals excess and extravagance.

 

[Scaff]

I think it gets far too much credit than it deserves. Big numbers are for kids and fan-boys.

The DS was revolutionary, especially for a car built to a budget. The Veyron is just an exercise in one-upmanship, throw as much money into a project and anything is possible. It's headline grabbing figures mean nothing in the real world, unless you are a 14 year old boy. The F1 had features never seen before on a road car and wasn't just engineered to be the 'fastest' or 'most powerful' - it just wanted to be the 'best'. The Veyron just equals excess and extravagance.

Quite agree, the Veyron (and as I have already said I do like it) was designed around a brief to be the fastest production road car ever, the reason for the delays on the car were simply down to actually making it work as a road car. Bugatti themselves admited that the main issues were not so much being able to get the numbers out of the engine, but ensuring it was able to remain cool during 'day to day' use.

Yes the level of technology is amazing for a road car, but a lot of it was adapted from race car tech, thats not to diminish the car, but its doesn't move the industry on in any major way.

For me its simply another step in the speed and power battle.

The Macca F1 by contrast was built with the brief to be the best all-round Supercar ever made, again it did make extensive use of racecar technology. While never designed for race use it did prove more than capable in that regard and for me is the purer supercar of the two (but Supercar is a very difficult term to agree on).


For me the bottom line is not that I don't think the Veyron does not deserve credit, it certainly does, even if for just pushing the number further than has been done before. However that not enough for me to earn it a place as 'best French' car, that requires a much more significant push on the boundaries of the automotive world, and thats the point at which the DS comes in, the case for which I think I have already made (but could easily continue with).

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Excuse me, but the veryons aim was to be the best. If they just wanted to be the fastest they could have done that alot easier.

PS what features did the F1 have never seen on a road car before? Wait? doesnt the veryon have alot of those features too?

 

[TheCracker]

Excuse me, but the veryons aim was to be the best. If they just wanted to be the fastest they could have done that alot easier.

Best at what?

PS what features did the F1 have never seen on a road car before? Wait? doesnt the veryon have alot of those features too?

Lots of aerodynamic advances (that i can't be arsed to look up, try Wiki) Maybe the VW does use these features too, but that's 10 years down the line.

 

[Scaff]

Excuse me, but the veryons aim was to be the best. If they just wanted to be the fastest they could have done that alot easier.

The basic spec for the Veyron of 1000+ bhp and a 250+ mph top speed were publically set by VAG before serious work started on the car.

The Veyron started off as a show car with that huge 400-kph promise attached to it. Keeping that promise turned out to be a lot more difficult than expected.

Now that sounds rather a lot like a) the main brief for the Veyron was v-max and b) as anyone with an understanding of the engineering involved will also know far from an easy thing to do.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Famine]

There were five stipulations Bernd Unpronouncable set out for the 16.4/Veyron. I'm not aware of any more than three, which were:

1. Have 1000hp.
2. Exceed 250mph.
3. Be as reliable as a Volkswagen Golf.

 

[Poverty]

There were five stipulations Bernd Unpronouncable set out for the 16.4/Veyron. I'm not aware of any more than three, which were:

1. Have 1000hp.
2. Exceed 250mph.
3. Be as reliable as a Volkswagen Golf.

Whilst lookin like it does.

Best at what?

Nearly everything.

 

[TheCracker]

Nearly everything.

For example?...

 

[Famine]

Whilst lookin like it does.

"lookin like it does" what?

 

[Dave A]

I'm pretty sure one of them was not to alter the cars appearance from the concept version, which they couldn't stick to. I think that's the one Poverty was referring to.

And I don't know exactley what the other one was, but I think it was related to the cars interior being more akin to a Rolls than a typical supercar.

The Veyron was an achievemnt in many things, but I'm still voting for the DS.

 

[Danny]

Speaking of the Clio a friend of my dads offered me an S-reg for £80 a week ago. :S

 

[Dave A]

Does it work? MOT'd and taxed ect?

 

[Famine]

Does it work?

Don't be silly. It's a Clio.

 

[Dave A]

Okay, does it have an aftermarket radio? If so, does that work?

 

[Danny]

Does it work? MOT'd and taxed ect?

Don't be silly. It's a Clio.

Okay, does it have an aftermarket radio? If so, does that work?

Yes, Yes, Yes, , No and No.

 

[Dave A]

£80 for a working, taxed and MoT'd car isn't a bad deal at all, even if it was only to lasts 6 months.

 

[IMADreamer]

I guess my arguement really comes with two points. The first being that the Veyron made such a huge splash in the automotive world it forced everyone to take notice. VW did what they said they would do and that was produce the fastest car in the world. I'm not sure that anyone believed they could do that when they said they were going to.

The second thing is, that I am tired of all these old cars winning these poles. Yes they are great cars but I think people are getting way too nostalgic here. It seems to me there is a little anti new theme going on here. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's better. Ok, that's a really childish point of view from me.

As for the guy who said numbers were for kids and fanboys well that's not true. Numbers give us something to compare and since none of us have ever driven a Veyron numbers are all we have. If numbers are for kids and fanboys then how come all major magazines have numbers? How come the car companies are obsessed with horsepower and 0-60 times? Numbers do matter as they give us something to compare! Granted numbers aren't the only thing that matters too, but you do have to look at the numbers.

 

[G.T]

Speaking of the Clio a friend of my dads offered me an S-reg for £80 a week ago. :S

That's not bad! If the car were in real bad condition (it's a Clio, so it must be) I'd just sell it to a scrap yard and make a profit. I doubt I could go through the hassle of selling it privetly. The car could do anything from parts like doors dropping off or blowing up at that price ffs...

 

[Dave A]

Not for £80 you wouldn't, my dad had a Fiat Panda once, he' just paid £50 for a new windscreen and the car died, it wasn't worth repairing it so he asked a scrapyard to have it, they said they'd pick it up for £20, so my dad just towed it to the yard minus the new windscreen and gave them the car then sold the windscreen to them for £20.