"WAR" on Drugs...

Since the "Elections thread has degenerated to a "war on drugs" thread, lets move it here.

I rarely agree with libertarians, but I will here - legalize it, tax it, sell it at Eckerds!
 
You've almost got it. Legalize it, don't tax it, and sell it at Eckerds.

Let the population weed itself out. Pun sorely intended.
 
Would you tax it more than other products?

Would you allow children to get access to them?

What about drugs (medication) that currently requires a doctor's prescription?

Would it be ok in your book to sell addictive drugs without informing the customer?

What about advertisements for drugs (like cocaine for example)? Can they advertise them to children? Using Bilboards, etc?
 
danoff
What about advertisements for drugs (like cocaine for example)? Can they advertise them to children? Using Bilboards, etc?
imagine a billboard on times square saying: Grade A Golden American Heroin. Your Children will love it...
👍

legalize them, treat them like alcohol, nicotine whatever. just stop all the double talk about them.
 
I mean **** i dont do drugs but (weed specifically) as many ppl that do it...why shouldnt it be legalized, taxed, and sold at eckerds. Might as well make a profit off it cuz its certainly not going away. If they can sell cigs that do damage, make u addicted, but doesnt get u high why cant they sell blunts that make does damage, makes u addicted, but DOES get u high as an added benefit.
 
^ hmmm. I think it could be argued that technically the Government can not make a profit. Because eventually all the money the government gets, comes back to us in the form of National Security, and other services. It's called taxation. Hard to have a govrnment without it. And if they have weed to tax, maybe they could lighten up on another tax?
 
Legalize it, tax it. Let the population weed itself out? Sounds awesome. More money for the government to help me out and protect me or whatever. I dont do that stuff, so it wont affect me.
 
JohnnyBlaZe
I mean **** i dont do drugs but (weed specifically) as many ppl that do it...why shouldnt it be legalized, taxed, and sold at eckerds. Might as well make a profit off it cuz its certainly not going away. If they can sell cigs that do damage, make u addicted, but doesnt get u high why cant they sell blunts that make does damage, makes u addicted, but DOES get u high as an added benefit.


Because some dumbasses are going to get high and then go out for a drive in their car and kill a couple of people. 👍 If we legalize it, it should be like in Australia. You can have a maximum of 2 plants, smoke it anywhere in your house, but if you are caught smoking it outside of your house (or property) your stash gets confiscated and you get fined.
 
Didn't know that. I figured we didn't have one since weed is already illegal.

I believe that's a DUI. I would also qualify for reckless driving, but DUI is more serious.
 
Integra Type R
Oh, I thought DUI referred to alcohol only.
DUI stands for driving under the influence. What is the actual influence can vary. It could be alcohol, drugs, inhalents and even herbal extracts. Drive with kava-kava in your system here in SoCal, and you will go to jail. The CHP even want to take in people driving under the influence of sleep. Now, they just pull them over and wake them up. They don't want to charge them with anything; they just want to get the sleepy driver off the road.
 
"Let's legalize marajuana, and outlaw cigarettes"

The whole idea is that people should be allowed to choose rather than have puritan morals forced on them.

I think Holland has a good model going right now for legalization. Except that it should be "legal" legal instead of ";) ;)" legal. I could go for some legal prostitution too. :)

Obviously DUI would still apply, and employers won't allow drug use on the job.

What would the US do with its current drug war prisoners? There are over six-figures worth of non-violent drug "criminals"
 
i dont think it sould be legal. i just think they should be a little more easy about it. instead of busting a regular guy for having one little roach, bust the guy with a crop in his backyard who's selling it to junior high kids. I dont have a problem with it. but if they make it legal and sell it in stores, the whole world will be burnout. ya theres still a lot of people who arent affected by the law and smoke it all they want. but the law does scare some people, and if we say its ok, then more people will use it and most people will abuse it. i just hate the way police go under cover and bust a guy for buying a dime bag from them, and they act like they busted a real hard criminal. there should be a law against that.
 
bust the guy with a crop in his backyard who's selling it to junior high kids

Selling it to minors is really a separate issue. You can legalize drugs and still make it illegal for kids to use them.

What would the US do with its current drug war prisoners? There are over six-figures worth of non-violent drug "criminals"

Hopefully they would be released immediately - free up some prison space and tax dollars.
 
danoff
Selling it to minors is really a separate issue. You can legalize drugs and still make it illegal for kids to use them.

There is one psychotropic drug which children have ready access to and are allowed to buy in huge quantities. In tests it's effects were shown to be more serious than heroin, cocaine, ecstasy and LSD and far more addictive than any of them. In fact in one comedy test, they administered small amounts (without varying the amount, obviously) to spiders and filmed the webs they subsequently wove. All bar one looked web-like but slightly irregular - the last was just two converging strands (okay, so drugs affect spiders differently to humans).

The drug is caffeine.

Now, any kid anywhere can go buy a Coke or Pepsi loaded with caffeine - or even have a cup of tea or coffee (on average tea contains more caffeine than coffee) - and load himself up with a drug more addictive and more alarmingly mood-altering than any of the "hard" drugs.

So which is it? Legalise all drugs for all persons, or legalise all drugs for all adults and ban the sale of Coke/Pepsi (and the kin) to minors? Or ban everything (which I know you won't pick, danoff, but it needs to be in there for equality's sakes)?


Of course, caffeine isn't the only "drug" available to children - several substances in the "banned" IAA list can be found in herbal remedies children have access to - but it is the most "dangerous".
 
Should we allow anyone to own a flame thrower or a rocket launcher because they already have the right to own a gun?
 
Should we allow anyone to own a flame thrower or a rocket launcher because they already have the right to own a gun?

That's not a parallel example with having the righ to take drugs because we can smoke. One is concerned with protecting other people from you, the other is protecting you from you.
 
danoff
Selling it to minors is really a separate issue. You can legalize drugs and still make it illegal for kids to use them.

i know that, i was just refering to the current way police handle this. besides, alcohol and cigarettes are illegal to minors yet its just as easy to get thier hands on as a candy bar at the gas station. and about caffine. ive never found myself affected by it. i love coke so i admit i may be addicted. but as far as a "pep up" or affecting me in any other way i havent noticed it.
 
Famine
There is one psychotropic drug which children have ready access to and are allowed to buy in huge quantities. In tests it's effects were shown to be more serious than heroin, cocaine, ecstasy and LSD and far more addictive than any of them. In fact in one comedy test, they administered small amounts (without varying the amount, obviously) to spiders and filmed the webs they subsequently wove. All bar one looked web-like but slightly irregular - the last was just two converging strands (okay, so drugs affect spiders differently to humans).

The drug is caffeine.

Now, any kid anywhere can go buy a Coke or Pepsi loaded with caffeine - or even have a cup of tea or coffee (on average tea contains more caffeine than coffee) - and load himself up with a drug more addictive and more alarmingly mood-altering than any of the "hard" drugs.

So which is it? Legalise all drugs for all persons, or legalise all drugs for all adults and ban the sale of Coke/Pepsi (and the kin) to minors? Or ban everything (which I know you won't pick, danoff, but it needs to be in there for equality's sakes)?


Of course, caffeine isn't the only "drug" available to children - several substances in the "banned" IAA list can be found in herbal remedies children have access to - but it is the most "dangerous".


Could you further explain how caffeine is more mood altering, serious, and addictive than heroin?

I could drink coffee every morning and soda every night for a month (not that I do), and just as easily completely stop my caffeine intake at any time during the process. [EXAMPLE]If I did something similar with nicotine, heroin, alcohol, LSD...etc, stopping my intake would be infinitely harder.[/EXAMPLE]
 
I drink at least three mugs of coffee a day (two of which are in my GTPlanet mug). Still, the amount of caffeine I take in compared to a fix of heroin is infinitessimal. Compared mg to mg caffeine has a more serious effect - I no longer have access to BIDS so I can't find the exact paper in which the first comparison was drawn.
 
Famine
I drink at least three mugs of coffee a day (two of which are in my GTPlanet mug). Still, the amount of caffeine I take in compared to a fix of heroin is infinitessimal. Compared mg to mg caffeine has a more serious effect - I no longer have access to BIDS so I can't find the exact paper in which the first comparison was drawn.

I can't find anything on it either. Just numerous references to how drinking caffeinated and carbonated drinks reduces appetite so that young children will eat less, as well as replace more important drinks such as water and milk. Children will generally also sleep worse from cafeine, and this effect is bigger on them than on adults since they're small, but take similar doses. All in all not a very good thing. But what you are talking about I haven't found yet.

I however do feel to remind you that the U.K. is probably the only country in the world where thee has more caffeine than coffee. :D (seriously.) Only instant coffee sometimes has less caffeine than strong tea. In most countries, tea will have about half the caffeine of coffee.

e.g.: http://www.ific.org/publications/brochures/caffeinebroch.cfm

As far as drugs are concerned, education is the number one 'fix'. We do consider weed, nicotine and alcohol close relatives, although nicotine is a lot more addictive than weed, and so is alcohol. However, we do make a big point of making hard drugs hard to get, as they can be so very addictive. So we have big projects in school where kids learn in various ways how drugs work and why they can be so dangerous. Also, we have mobile labs that allow people to test their drugs in clubs, so that bad stuff can be identified quickly and people know better what they swallow. That has proven to help raise awareness of the risks as well as reduce them.

Also, realities change. There are people out there making weed more potent, by rasing THC levels (the active ingredient in weed), making weed a lot more dangerous. Something to keep a close eye on.

All in all, understanding drugs is key, so education is the number one priority. One of the big dangers of repressing drugs is both making them unknown, as well as making crime pay. The latter is the downside of having a War on Drugs - that just increases the profits for criminals.
 
More potent weed isn't more dangerous. No street drugs are really dangerous except for the quality and posible misuse.

Most heroin overdoses are caused because of the variance in potency on the streets. A user takes a regular dose that turns out to be twice as pure and OD's accidentally. Even in this dangerous and unregulated setting heroin kills far less people than prescription drugs or alcohol.

With pot the damage caused by smoke inhalation and various chemicals(pesticides, fertilizers,...) is worse than the effects of THC. I don't think anyone has shown any negative effects of THC itself besides temporary memory and motor impairment.

With proper regulation drugs would be far less dangerous and available than they are now. Soft drugs should be unregulated while synthesized drugs should be available through pharmacies.
 
wellyrn
More potent weed isn't more dangerous. No street drugs are really dangerous except for the quality and posible misuse.

There are two kinds of addiction - Mental and Physical. While THC isn't shown to be physically addictive, mental addiction invariably rises with the intensity of the 'high'.

Most heroin overdoses are caused because of the variance in potency on the streets. A user takes a regular dose that turns out to be twice as pure and OD's accidentally. Even in this dangerous and unregulated setting heroin kills far less people than prescription drugs or alcohol.

Heroine started out originally a regular sedative used during operations and such, I think it was around 1900. But it was soon abolished after patients showed themselves to become very quickly addicted to the drug. The only drug that has comparable addiciton levels as heroine is nicotine, but of course it depends on how you compare the two - if you were to inject the level of nicotine you have in a cigarette directly into your blood you'd die instantly. But the addiction on heroine is physical and withdrawal symptoms are some of the worst out there. On the other hand, Cocaine so far hasn't shown to be physically addictive at all. But the danger of Cocaine lies in that it allows you to cross your own physical boundaries, and your lifestyle can come to depend on that.

With pot the damage caused by smoke inhalation and various chemicals(pesticides, fertilizers,...) is worse than the effects of THC. I don't think anyone has shown any negative effects of THC itself besides temporary memory and motor impairment.

The most dangerous effect of THC physically is the chance of having a psychosis, which can be so severe that you can end up in a mental hospital for a while. The chances aren't big however, and it's not certain if the THC itself is responsible, or the impurity of the product. Still, too much THC and combining it with other drugs such as alcohol can lead to a bad trip, and I know people who are examples of this, and witnessed one first hand.

So care should be taken and more needs to be investigated. But compared to alcohol and nicotine, THC seems a fairly safe drug. Still, research is good. For instance research on how THC moves in your body. It doesn't stay in your brain very long (a few hours at most), but eventually it ends up in your cellular fats and it can stay there for weeks. I have no idea if this is possible, but say that someone is a regular user of THC, THC builds up in your body fats, and then this person suddenly decides to lose weight or start endurance sports or whatever. THC might get back into your body unnoticed. Still no immediate danger there, but say that you're not aware of it and you go driving, it might impare your judgment and you might get into an accident.

With proper regulation drugs would be far less dangerous and available than they are now. Soft drugs should be unregulated while synthesized drugs should be available through pharmacies.

I certainly agree with that. It is far more important that people know what they are doing when taking drugs, than just making them blindly illegal. We have enough empirical data to see that a 'War on Drugs' doesn't do much good. But regulation comes in different forms, and I think all drugs should be regulated to a certain extent. I'm fairly happy with how it works over here.
 
With proper regulation drugs would be far less dangerous and available than they are now. Soft drugs should be unregulated while synthesized drugs should be available through pharmacies.

You'd be surprised how well the free market would regulate itself.

A cocaine company would try hard to make sure they didn't harm anyone with their product because they would lose business. At the same time, consumer reports would start commenting on the quality of their products.


Can you imagine a consumer reports guy talking about his high from company A not being quite as good as with company B, but was the extra high worth the extra money?
 
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