Watch a GT Academy Finalist Play Gran Turismo Sport

[ari3ngr]

Guys if you knew how to drive in Gran Turismo and do fast laps in the Nurburgring, you would be certain that the guy driving in the video is slow intentionally and is a guy from the GT team that serve people to think the AI is more engaging (not that it may not be better than before) because this guy is very slow compared to very fast drivers and M4s or whatever, in the Nurburgring. I saw the video and in every corner he protects and is idles (no acceleration) and drives like the AI really does.. (which you will sooner or later find out) rather than the AI drives like super-fast drivers.

Tyres are Sport-Hard as usual.

 

[syntex123]

No trying to confirm or deny anything. But isn't it logical to not accelerate in the corners? You brake before you enter, you idle while you turn, then slowly accelerating out.

 

[Jarmo]

Guys if you knew how to drive in Gran Turismo and do fast laps in the Nurburgring, you would be certain that the guy driving in the video is slow intentionally and is a guy from the GT team that serve people to think the AI is more engaging (not that it may not be better than before) because this guy is very slow compared to very fast drivers and M4s or whatever, in the Nurburgring. I saw the video and in every corner he protects and is idles (no acceleration) and drives like the AI really does.. (which you will sooner or later find out) rather than the AI drives like super-fast drivers.

Tyres are Sport-Hard as usual.

From the video description: "First time playing GT Sport". To me it seems just smart to take it a bit more careful before you get to know the game and the car. Much more pleasant to view also. Plus I don't know what you are really on about. He's most certainly not slow. He drives quickly, precisely and has a good racing etiquette. Unlike the generic footage we see where an imbecile drives flat out through the corners riding the walls, spinning on the grass and bouncing off other cars like a pinball.

 

[Samus]

We've seen hundreds of videos of GT Sport, not one of them shows excellent AI. It would be therefore fairly logical to conclude the reason they appear slow in this video is because like previous GT games, they're still just pretty slow. I hope things do change, but right now clearly not much has on the AI front.

 

[Jarmo]

We've seen hundreds of videos of GT Sport, not one of them shows excellent AI. It would be therefore fairly logical to conclude the reason they appear slow in this video is because like previous GT games, they're still just pretty slow. I hope things do change, but right now clearly not much has on the AI front.

I'm not sure if that was a directed towards me. I wasn't defending the AI, the driver himself stated "In GTS, the AI takes fast corners reasonably while being horribly slow in traction limited corners." I was merely pointing out that what he said about the driver himself isn't accurate.

 

[Samus]

I'm not sure if that was a directed towards me. I wasn't defending the AI, the driver himself stated "In GTS, the AI takes fast corners reasonably while being horribly slow in traction limited corners." I was merely pointing out that what he said about the driver himself isn't accurate.

Not directed at you no, just the general discussion of AI quality in that video.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

I am not going to defend the AI, but something tells me that what is in place is already fast enough for the majority of players this game will have.

 

[syntex123]

@Jarmo he also said the car handled quite differently to that of GT6 and had to feather the acceleration more than he was used to.

 

[Highlandor]

I don't see what can be taken from this vid, here's why:

1) he swaps the sports HARD tyres (stock) to sports SOFT, this is a huge difference in grip levels, especially for a road car like an M4.

A good comparison would've been same race run again but on the stock hard tyres, then compare those 2 races.

2) notice how the tyre temps (indicator) doesn't change a bit, even when he crashes / looses control at around 4:10 and has to put on a big bit of opposite lock.

How can you judge the AI when the driver changes the level of grip in their car this much? He's carrying way more speed through the bends than what he would with stock tyres.

I think the AI looked pretty good in this vid (suspiciously, maybe a bit too good), but not sure it's possible to conclude this is an accurate representation of the final release version. This looked more like a free run race, than a race which is part of a possible single player mode / game.

 

[mister dog]

How can you judge the AI when the driver changes the level of grip in their car this much? He's carrying way more speed through the bends than what he would with stock tyres.

The AI behavior looks very familiar for anyone that has played GT in the past decade, the 'fast on the straights/ grandma pace in the corners' mode I still vividly remember from my GT5 days.

Assuming the AI is on hards on he is on softs, would that really make a car corner about two seconds faster in every corner?

He selected professional difficulty too, so this is probably the fastest the AI gets which doesn't seems very encouraging neither.

 

[Highlandor]

The AI behavior looks very familiar for anyone that has played GT in the past decade, the 'fast on the straights/ grandma pace in the corners' mode I still vividly remember from my GT5 days.

Assuming the AI is on hards on he is on softs, would that really make a car corner about two seconds faster in every corner?

He selected professional difficulty too, so this is probably the fastest the AI gets which doesn't seems very encouraging neither.

Show me where on the video he drives through a corner 2 seconds faster than the AI...

 

[mister dog]

Show me where on the video he drives through a corner 2 seconds faster than the AI...

Every corner from the start up until Aremberg for example?...

 

[Highlandor]

Every corner from the start up until Aremberg for example?...

Either we're living in 2 different time dimensions or you should've gone to Specsavers....

 

[syntex123]

you should've gone to Specsavers....

I got a letter from Specsavers the other day. Maybe it was meant for him and not me? I already got my glasses.

No but seriously I tend to agree - you guys who don't - read his review.

 

[coryclifford]

If he's running different tires than the AI, well then, the whole experience (?) is bunk.

 

[JTB10000]

Interesting, I just noticed the 'Standard' option
for the three tire types. What grip level could those possibly have?

 

[Johnnypenso]

If he's running different tires than the AI, well then, the whole experience (?) is bunk.

I asked a couple of days ago if @GTMunky new what tires the AI were using but no response yet. You'd assume stock compound it's a new game so you never know.

 

[coryclifford]

I'd assume stock.

 

[mister dog]

Either we're living in 2 different time dimensions or you should've gone to Specsavers....

I'd wager the same about you, did you pay attention to how much he let go of the throttle and how fast he gained on the AI in the harder braking zones? If he would have driven full pace without having to constantly coast, he would have arrived at Aremberg 10 seconds faster, but he didn't because of all the mobile chicanes holding him up.

 

[Highlandor]

I'd wager the same about you, did you pay attention to how much he let go of the throttle and how fast he gained on the AI in the harder braking zones? If he would have driven full pace without having to constantly coast, he would have arrived at Aremberg 10 seconds faster, but he didn't because of all the mobile chicanes holding him up.

And how many of those mobile chicanes from the first few corners finished less than 20 seconds behind at the end of the full lap?

If it was 2 secs per corner, he should've been minutes ahead of all of them, not 20 secs..

 

[Thematic]

They need more spatial sound simulation. Especially in tunnels. The way it is now sounds like you're driving through a vocal booth. There's no reverb from the surrounding area whatsoever. That's one of the biggest reasons people think Forza sounds better, Forza cranks up the reverb to unrealistic levels, while GT has none at all almost

Upside to Polyphony's alleged philosophy of avoiding "effects" is that they don't need to scrap implementations, which would mean wasted resources in the long run. Maybe the console clock cycles are put to visuals so much so that all realistic sound isn't even considered at this point.

 

[mister dog]

And how many of those mobile chicanes from the first few corners finished less than 20 seconds behind at the end of the full lap?

If it was 2 secs per corner, he should've been minutes ahead of all of them, not 20 secs..

Rubber banding maybe? The way he totally owns them in the first section whilst he is passing them, would indeed amount to a bigger lead than that at the end. Although 20 seconds by itself is already a very big lead for one lap on the ring.

 

[Highlandor]

Rubber banding maybe? The way he totally owns them in the first section whilst he is passing them, would indeed amount to a bigger lead than that at the end. Although 20 seconds by itself is already a very big lead for one lap on the ring.

So how is the AI suppposed to know how fast to go when there are so many variations of car, tyre, and also, 'driver' i.e. people playing it?

This isn't like a single player game or mode whereby the speed of the AI could be more accurately dialled in for each individual event / race, owing to the limitation applied to it.

This is an open demo with potentially a large amount of variation.

Like I said in my first post, and as said by others in this thread, I don't see how much can be taken from this vid. I think you're reading to much into this..

 

[Johnnypenso]

And how many of those mobile chicanes from the first few corners finished less than 20 seconds behind at the end of the full lap?

If it was 2 secs per corner, he should've been minutes ahead of all of them, not 20 secs..

Two words: Rubber banding

 

[GTMunky]

I asked a couple of days ago if @GTMunky new what tires the AI were using but no response yet. You'd assume stock compound it's a new game so you never know.

I re-watched the video to refresh my memory. I'd assume the AI were on stock compounds (Sports Hard). However, I question whether the Toyota S-FR Racing Concept had Sports Hard. It was fast in the corners either from different tires, more downforce, or lightness/better power-to-weight ratio. The Toyota S-FR Racing Concept put a gap on the Ford Mustang GT in the video.

I had no trouble passing all the other AI except for the rabbit in the lead, the yellow BMW M4. On Sports Soft, I had to push 9/10 to keep up from Eiskurve to Galgenkopf. That was a 3rd-4th gear fast section. In my opinion if I had Sports Hard, I'd be able to blow by the field until I caught up to the rabbit in 1st place.

By the way, when I play single-player, I treat the AI similar to a mixed group of beginner, novice, and advanced drivers at a track day with different cars of varying tire compounds. I chose Sports Soft because that's my tire of choice for most cars including race cars/tuned cars in GT6. It was a better base for my personal comparison with GT Sport.

I try to drive as clean as possible whether it's against AI, people online, or real-life.

Here's a couple old GT examples if you guys wanna compare my driving style against the AI in GT Sport
Old GT Archives: I'm the red 370Z


Old GT Archives: I'm the yellow GTR

 

[mister dog]

So how is the AI suppposed to know how fast to go when there are so many variations of car, tyre, and also, 'driver' i.e. people playing it?

This isn't like a single player game or mode whereby the speed of the AI could be more accurately dialled in for each individual event / race, owing to the limitation applied to it.

The AI in demo's is normally reflective of the current version in the main game, I see no reason why those would differ. This problem (balancing with the variations of cars/ tyres etcetera), is something every developer has to overcome when producing a racing game, and in almost all of them out there currently they are able to dial in the AI's speed correctly according to the difficulty a player selects (its mostly collision detection that is a problem still). So basically there's no reason why PD would not be able to balance this out way better.

Like I said in my first post, and as said by others in this thread, I don't see how much can be taken from this vid. I think you're reading to much into this..

Could be as it is indeed a demo, but forgive me for not trusting PD in overhauling anything anymore after all these years. It's just the same rabbit chase as I hated when I played GT5.

I had no trouble passing all the other AI except for the rabbit in the lead, the yellow BMW M4. On Sports Soft, I had to push 9/10 to keep up from Eiskurve to Galgenkopf. That was a 3rd-4th gear fast section. In my opinion if I had Sports Hard, I'd be able to blow by the field until I caught up to the rabbit in 1st place.

The formula in itself is flawed IMO. The player is always stuck behind slow bots up until he finally clears them halfway the first lap, and by then the rabbit has a huge lead already. Then they implement rubber banding to push the field closer to you again. Every race like this means you end up with having only one true opponent which challenges you for the finish line.

 

[TomBrady]

The formula in itself is flawed IMO. The player is always stuck behind slow bots up until he finally clears them halfway the first lap, and by then the rabbit has a huge lead already. Then they implement rubber banding to push the field closer to you again. Every race like this means you end up with having only one true opponent which challenges you for the finish line.

I hate that about GT and other racing games. That's part of what I loved about GT PSP. Not only was the AI much faster, and the opponents mostly intelligently chosen (unless you set it to single make) based on tire selection and also the fact that you couldn't upgrade your car so performance was more predictable, but it also didn't have that stupid chase the rabbit format.

It's sad that a PSP game had the best racing in the series but I'm hoping GT Sport will change that. Considering the fact that GT Sport thankfully doesn't have upgradeable parts like most GT games, I think it should be much easier for PD to not rely on the stupid chase he rabbit formula and actually give us great racing with the AI which GT PSP proves they are capable of.

I do believe it was mentioned that GT Sports AI will feature difficulty levels right? Frankly, all racing games should have them.

Also, I always had tough races in GT5 Prologue, which also didn't feature car upgrades and therefore gave PD much better control over the racing situation.

Some people whined about GT Sport not having car upgrades, I think it's a good thing. GT hasn't be the best for suping up your cars since GT3 really. I say give it up in favor for quality racing. I mean, it is a racing game right? Why wouldn't the racing be a higher priority then people being able to play around with cars in the garage?

 

[mister dog]

I think it should be much easier for PD to not rely on the stupid chase he rabbit formula and actually give us great racing with the AI which GT PSP proves they are capable of.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for single player to be honest. They didn't really bother much with it in a long time and seeing that GTS will be online focused, it gives PD even more reasons to not rework things like the AI.

I do believe it was mentioned that GT Sports AI will feature difficulty levels right?

So far I haven't seen a difficulty slider for the AI specifically, although you do have a general difficulty slider.