Watchmen - Who Watches the Watchmen?

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Yeah, it gives away a lot, including who the bad guy is. That or I can see it easily because I know the story.

I also think we catch a glimpse of what is done instead.

WARNING CONTAINS SPOILERS
http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/111008-watchmen-movie-zack-snyder-ending-changed.php

This bothers me though, because it eliminates any necessity for, thus any chances of likely seeing, The Black Freighter.
Definitely DVD extra only

Also, the entire story begins with The Comedian dying for seeing and investigating Squid Island.
Maybe he see's the antartic base instead?

Also nice to see the movie has been given an 'R' rating:tup:
 
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Yeah, I saw that already. So I know it is out. Which leads me to the Black Freighter. Watch the new trailer right after Silk Specter says, "Jon thinks nuclear war will break out soon." and you will see what I believe is the direction they have chosen.

Definitely DVD extra only
Is it? They talked about it, but does it even need it? The Black Freighter, while a great secondary tale for the story, is tied to the squid in that the squid's concept creator and the author of the comic are the same guy. He is on Squid Island. Without the squid the comic author is not a part of it and thus The Black Freighter itself becomes this odd tangent with no physical ties to the story.

Maybe he see's the antartic base instead?
See, this is the problem with changing something that big. I guarantee you the writers had this exact same discussion. If they didn't then they missed an important plot element. I refuse to believe that David Hayter was that far off.

It could be neatly cleaned up by saying that on one of his diplomatic deals he ran across the list of cancer victims.

Also nice to see the movie has been given an 'R' rating:tup:
Had to be. You couldn't remain faithful without it.
 
Is it? They talked about it, but does it even need it? The Black Freighter, while a great secondary tale for the story, is tied to the squid in that the squid's concept creator and the author of the comic are the same guy. He is on Squid Island. Without the squid the comic author is not a part of it and thus The Black Freighter itself becomes this odd tangent with no physical ties to the story.

I think that for the regular audience, it isn't going to matter too much. To that end, I seem to recall Snyder saying that it'd add almost an extra half-hour onto the movie. He keeps promising that there will be a "Director's Cut" immediately on DVD when it is released with everything in there together. Presumably, that will be the only "true" Watchmen experience.
 
I think that for the regular audience, it isn't going to matter too much. To that end, I seem to recall Snyder saying that it'd add almost an extra half-hour onto the movie. He keeps promising that there will be a "Director's Cut" immediately on DVD when it is released with everything in there together. Presumably, that will be the only "true" Watchmen experience.
Snyder also said they had multiple endings planned and has now confirmed that they always just had the one ending.

He has also kind of laughed off what the fans are concerned about with this quote.
The fans, god love 'em, they're all up in arms about the squid. What they should be up in arms about are things like shooting the pregnant woman, 'God is real and he's American', whether THAT's in the movie. That's my point of view, maybe I'm crazy.
It makes me wonder if he has failed to notice that fans are concerned about a major plot device and how it ties in to the rest of the story. If he doesn't want the fans to be turned off then when he announces a big change like that he needs to assure them that they have filled in the gaps that remains. Not confirm that he has the colors and shots correct.
 
Its hard to say for certain. I'm of the belief that Warner is pushing pretty hard to turn some of the content down just a bit, be a bit less heady, but nevertheless a stronger piece than say your average comic book movie. It seems too easy to say that there are far more people who have never read, nor ever heard of this comic... Consequently, there are going to be some parts placed in the movie that aren't in the book. Perhaps to stop having things go "woosh" over the viewers heads. Perhaps not.

Unfortunately, I'm of the type that would never have wanted to be charged with making this movie. Its just too big of a thing to keep everyone happy.
 
The Show Must Go On

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i2079648bd224e2c8075db99d3217979a

Warners, Fox settle over 'Watchmen'
Under the agreement, Fox will not be co-distributor
By Matthew Belloni and Borys Kit

Jan 15, 2009, 08:25 PM ET

Updated: Jan 15, 2009, 08:41 PM ET

"Watchmen"

Geeks can rejoice.

Warner Bros. and Fox have resolved their dispute over "Watchmen," with the studios scheduled to present a settlement to Judge Gary Feess this morning and request that the case be dismissed.

Terms of the agreement were not disclosed, but the deal is said to involve a sizable cash payment to Fox and a percentage of the film's boxoffice grosses; Fox will not be a co-distributor on the film, nor will it co-own the "Watchmen" property, but it will share in revenue derived from it. The studios released a joint statement last night.

"Warner Bros. acknowledges that Fox acted in good faith in bringing its claims, which were asserted prior to the start of principal photography," the statement read. "Fox acknowledges that Warner Bros. acted in good faith defending against those claims."

Fox sued Warners in February, claiming copyright infringement based on agreements the studio had with producer Larry Gordon. Feess ruled Dec. 24 that Gordon did not secure proper rights to "Watchmen" from Fox before shopping the project and setting it up at Warners.

Feess' decision prompted settlement talks to heat up because Warners faced the prospect of an injunction stopping its March 6 release of the $130 million comic book adaptation.

Gordon is not a party to the case, but Warners is said to be after the producer and his attorneys to reimburse the studio for costs of the settlement. During the litigation, Gordon's then-attorney admitted that he negotiated the producer's 1994 separation from Fox without knowing about a 1991 agreement on which Fox based its lawsuit.

The showdown between studios became particularly nasty during recent weeks, with Gordon and the film's other producer, Lloyd Levin, lashing out at Fox for making a claim on the film.

But with the dispute settled, the statement took a positive tone: "Warner Bros. and Fox, like all 'Watchmen' fans, look forward with great anticipation to this film's March 6 release in theaters."

YAY!!! You can't see it but I am doing a happy dance.
 
It was all a bit odd, but I'm glad it was worked out to get the film out on time. One of the producers spoke out about it last week (*mild language warning*), and it sounds like that from his perspective, Fox was just trying to cash in on something they passed up.

Lloyd Levin
From my point of view, the flashpoint of this dispute, came in late spring of 2005. Both Fox and Warner Brothers were offered the chance to make Watchmen. They were submitted the same package, at the same time. It included a cover letter describing the project and its history, budget information, a screenplay, the graphic novel, and it made mention that a top director was involved.

And it's at this point, where the response from both parties could not have been more radically different.

The response we got from Fox was a flat "pass." That's it. An internal Fox email documents that executives there felt the script was one of the most unintelligible pieces of 'S' they had read in years. Conversely, Warner Brothers called us after having read the script and said they were interested in the movie - yes, they were unsure of the screenplay, and had many questions, but wanted to set a meeting to discuss the project, which they promptly did. Did anyone at Fox ask to meet on the movie? No. Did anyone at Fox express any interest in the movie? No. Express even the slightest interest in the movie? Or the graphic novel? No.

From there, the executives at Warner Brothers, who weren't yet completely comfortable with the movie, made a deal to acquire the movie rights and we all started to creatively explore the possibility of making Watchmen. We discussed creative approaches and started offering the movie to directors, our former director having moved on by then. After a few director submissions, Zack Snyder came onboard, well before the release of his movie 300. In fact, well before its completion. This was a gut, creative call by Larry, me and the studio... Zack didn't have a huge commercial track record, yet we all felt he was the right guy for the movie.

Warner Brothers continued to support, both financially and creatively, the development of the movie. And eventually, after over a year of work, they agreed to make the film, based on a script that, for what it's worth, was by and large very similar to the one Fox initially read and deemed an unintelligible piece of 'S'.

He goes on to talk about how much money Warner Brothers has poured into the project, particularly on things that won't even be shown in theaters (read, The Black Freighter), among other things.

The big question is, how much did Fox manage to extract from the project? How much are they getting in royalties?

I still think its a bit sneaky, but that's just me.
 
That looks awesome.

I am actually torn: Should I buy Watchmen Motion Comics and Tales of the Black Freighter on Blu-Ray when they come out, or should I wait until the movie itself comes out and there is the inevtibale Collector's bundle with all three Blu-Rays and something cool like an Owl Ship replica?
 
They were implying early on that Snyder would do a "Directors Cut" on Blu Ray that would have the Black Freighter tales placed right inside the movie. I'd shoot for that option, to have the full effect.
 
They were implying early on that Snyder would do a "Directors Cut" on Blu Ray that would have the Black Freighter tales placed right inside the movie. I'd shoot for that option, to have the full effect.
After talking to a friend at work I think I will rent and then wait until the movie comes out to see what kind of collector's edition I can get.
 
Actually, it's not implied... it's confirmed. There will be a total of three cuts of the film. The theatrical cut, a director's cut that's thirty minutes longer (3h10m), and a super director's cut that also inserts the Black Freighter footage, at around 3h30m. I don't know if all three will be on the same disc, or if they'll be sold separately, they haven't specified that part.
 
I've also heard rumors that the Squid would be included in the Directors Cut, which would be nice. Although, now that I know what the change is and how it works, I can see why it would be a bit more "acceptable" to folks who haven't read the book.
 
I've also heard rumors that the Squid would be included in the Directors Cut, which would be nice. Although, now that I know what the change is and how it works, I can see why it would be a bit more "acceptable" to folks who haven't read the book.
Zack Snyder has said in multiple interviews since that rumor that the squid was never a filmed scene.
 
Just to confirm all squid talk.

http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/111008-watchmen-movie-zack-snyder-ending-changed.php

Semi-spoilerish - relevant bits bolded:

The “Squid” is Out

Zack Snyder confirms that the creature at the end of the original comic series will not be in his movie adaptation

I know — that sucks. We’ve all been hearing conflicting reports over the past several months on whether the “squid” — what fans call the monster at the end of Watchmen — would make it into the film, but now it seems that it definitely will not be making an appearance.

How do we know? Well, Watchmen movie director Zack Snyder said so in a recent interview with Dark Horizons.

The squid was not in the movie when I got the script, the squid was never in any draft that I saw. My point is only that there was this elegant solution to the squid problem that I kind of embraced. I'm a fan of the thing as much as anyone, I was saying what are we going to do about this before I even read the script.

The details on what he has specifically changed in the film in regards to the ending are not known at this time, but it seems like he’s going with the “Dr. Manhattan energy beam” disaster that appeared in both the David Hayter and Alex Tse drafts of the script. When asked about details of the film’s climactic disaster, Snyder explained…

I won't say exactly but... Dr. Manhattan has a certain energy signature, it's clearly his thing...so you know.

So, at this point some of you might be thinking, “no problem. Maybe we’ll get the squid in one of those multiple endings we heard about a few weeks ago.” Sorry. Snyder also confirmed that there was only one ending shot for his film.

How are fans taking this news? Well, very few fans are happy about it. Their reactions range from outright rage to cautious optimism. One one side there are fans who are absolutely pissed off that Snyder had opted for an ending they feel completely undermines the climax of the story and creates plot holes so deep that rewrites to earlier scenes would likely not even be able to fill them.

Other fans, citing all of the previous reports on how faithful Snyder and his team have been to the source so far, are worried, but are giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt that he’s filled these holes neatly and carefully so that the film would still make sense and maintain virtually all of the themes of the original comic series. Some of the more hopeful fans even cite that if Watchmen co-creator Dave Gibbons seems happy with the ending, how bad can it be?

Now, for some of the fans it wasn’t just the news of the changed ending that got them upset, but also the tone Snyder took toward them in this interview as well.

The fans, god love 'em, they're all up in arms about the squid. What they should be up in arms about are things like shooting the pregnant woman, 'God is real and he's American', whether THAT's in the movie. That's my point of view, maybe I'm crazy.

What seemed to irritate fans about this quote the most was not that Snyder came off as being condescending toward them, but that it amped up their fears that even though Synder was painstakingly including lots of the little details of Watchmen into his film, he was perhaps missing the big picture and creating a movie whose ending will fall flat and ultimately makes little to no sense.

So what’s my take on all of this? To be honest, I haven’t seen fan morale toward the movie so low. Many of the die-hard fans were against this adaptation from the beginning, but as news from the film began to surface each week many of them started to come around; warming up to Snyder and feeling that the film was going to be good — perhaps even epic. Now, many of those converts are back in the “Snyder-hate” camp again.

Am I angry that Snyder took that “tone” in the interview toward us fans? Well, I don’t think it was the best thing he could have said, but I understand why he said it. Let’s face it - as fans we have been extremely critical of Snyder since day one. We’ve put every decision of his under the microscope and picked out any possible flaw we could see. Sometimes, our points are valid, sometimes, we’ve gotten a bit nit picky. In fairness we’re no different than any fandom. The point is, whether we're right or wrong about the decisions he’s made, there were times we lashed out at him. It makes sense that some of that anger would come back to us.

As far as the new ending goes, I’d put myself in the cautiously optimistic camp. You see, I’ve been to the set, met and spoke with Zack and Debbie Snyder, many of the cast, crew as well as Dave Gibbons. I honestly believe Watchmen is in good hands and that the source material is being treated with respect. I understand that the “squid” ending could be very difficult to adapt and that the way the ending unfolds in the comic may not work well on screen.

But, to be honest, I’m not entirely sure how a “Dr. Manhattan energy beam” ending will work well either, especially if it's identical to what has been written in previous leaked screenplay drafts. A new ending does create many plot holes — how does the Comedian find out about the plot if there’s no more “squid” island for him to fly over? If Dr. Manhattan is framed for the destruction why would the Russians believe he was not still working for the US?

I have faith that Snyder and company have thought about and worked out all of these issues to make a new ending work, but I’m still worried. In the interview Snyder explained that at the test screening anyone who saw the film who read the graphic novel rated the film as “excellent” and that as far as Snyder was concerned the film is “done.” However, one source of mine who claimed to be at the Portland screening told me he was a big fan of the comic and definitely did not rate the film as “excellent” and reported the problems he had with the ending in his questionnaire.

No matter what we hear It always seems to come down to a “he said, they said” situation with conflicting information and reports. So what is a fan to do? All we can do is wait until March 6th… and pray.
 
Based on what I've read of the ending in the spoiler-rific reviews on AICN, I'm really not all that worried. I think, to some extent, "The Squid" may have been too much for some folks who weren't experienced in the genre. Instead, the ending that is being used actually makes a lot of sense, and I think that for the most part, the more modern audiences will likely be much more receptive to what happens.
 
Based on what I've read of the ending in the spoiler-rific reviews on AICN, I'm really not all that worried. I think, to some extent, "The Squid" may have been too much for some folks who weren't experienced in the genre. Instead, the ending that is being used actually makes a lot of sense, and I think that for the most part, the more modern audiences will likely be much more receptive to what happens.
I agree that the squid was off the wall for even the graphic novel. It just kind of came out of nowhere.

My worry though is that the squid itself is not important but played a catalyst to the entire plot. It is its discovery that sets everything in motion. Without that we have Manhattan being run off and then a big disaster with nothing leading up to it.

So, the background story has to have undergone changes as well. Without the squid The Black Freighter may just come off as an artistic flair with no other connection to the story. There are tiny details that could go missing when a Hollywood rewrite of the backstory takes place. I've already accepted that there may be holes due to things being cut, and because of that I reserve final judgment for the director's cut. But if a huge portion of story has to be retold then I become nervous about even the director's cut being solid. It is those details that spoiler-ific reviews online haven't mentioned.


But I am not letting any of that hold me back. I am planning to be there at midnight next week.
 
I’m with Foolkiller on this and I’m very nervous about this.

I’m currently re-reading my old tattered copy of the Watchmen so that it’s nice and fresh in my mind for when I see the movie. Reading it again, I am reminded of all the seeming little random occurrences in the story which (when the plot unravels) shows how important the squid is to the story and how it is the catalysis for all the events that transpire. I’m sure they will fill the big plot hole left by changing the squid sequence but I’m worried about the rest of the little things that occur and intertwine that makes this a great story.

I’m also a little disappointed that the Tales of the Black Freighter will be separate release (and only add in a dvd release). I really enjoyed how marooned seemingly reflected what was occurring in the main story in a metaphorical way. I don’t think it will work as well being a stand alone extra but I will definitely pick up the version that has it added in to the watchmen.
 
Lets put it this way:

All of the AICN guys are absolutely in love with the movie, despite the small hiccups that we already know about. If they're all giving such massive thumbs up, often saying that the film deserves at least double or triple views to get the full effect, then I imagine its quite good.

Although, as I recall one of the reviews saying:

Watchmen < The Dark Knight

...Which actually doesn't seem that surprising.
 
I put it in the Latest Purchase thread, but I will share here as well:

dscf3744.jpg
 
DAMN!

$12.25 for movie tickets!?!?!

My guess is that my brother and I will hit the midnight show, and spend our special little $6 price that we get. I still think its hard to know for sure if it will be popular or not, however, I'm not willing to take any chances like I did with TDK (my brother and I got two of the last four tickets that night).
 
DAMN!

$12.25 for movie tickets!?!?!
Just for IMAX. $10.50 for Director's Hall (reclining seats, they bring food to you), $8.75 for normal, $6.75(?) for matinee. I am not sure what the non-IMAX 3D stuff costs.

I still think its hard to know for sure if it will be popular or not, however, I'm not willing to take any chances like I did with TDK (my brother and I got two of the last four tickets that night).
For IMAX it is reserved seating, so you pick your seats from a screen. These tickets went on sale at 9:00 AM this morning. At 5:24 PM 2/3 of the theater was sold.

Do not underestimate the power of nerds.
 
I’m also a little disappointed that the Tales of the Black Freighter will be separate release (and only add in a dvd release). I really enjoyed how marooned seemingly reflected what was occurring in the main story in a metaphorical way. I don’t think it will work as well being a stand alone extra but I will definitely pick up the version that has it added in to the watchmen.
The problem is that THE BLACK FREIGHTER would need its own explanation and the sharp difference between it and the world of WATCHMEN would not play out very well on film, simply because it would slow things down. It might work in the graphic novel, and it might even be an essential part of the story, but the first rule of storytelling in films is that you only show whatever it is that you need to show. Anything that threatens that has to go.
 
The problem is that THE BLACK FREIGHTER would need its own explanation and the sharp difference between it and the world of WATCHMEN would not play out very well on film, simply because it would slow things down. It might work in the graphic novel, and it might even be an essential part of the story, but the first rule of storytelling in films is that you only show whatever it is that you need to show. Anything that threatens that has to go.
And as the squid is out the why of The Black Freighter even being present is gone. So now The Black Freighter is purely fan service.
 
And as the squid is out the why of The Black Freighter even being present is gone. So now The Black Freighter is purely fan service.
I think that's why people want it in in the first place. But aside from drawing parallels within the WATCHMEN storyline proper, TALES OF THE BLACK FREIGHTER has no bearing on the actual storyline. Indeed, it exists within a fictional universe of its own, and thus was probably the first thing sacrificed at the Altar of Filmic Storytelling; assuming, of course, that the writers of the film even considered having it at all. Having some kind of text-within-a-text might work with fans, but it would be completely lost on casual audiences who have never heard of the graphic novel (much less read it), who will most likely form the majority of the audience.
 
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