We are very hard on PoDi

[machschnel]

In strict km, yes.... But on a squared format, its scaled down 5 times....there lies the difference.... i grouped 100km squared as one unit (PD tended to keep it that way when they started cutting down "100 km^2 to 50 km^2 to 20") so I would put it (in better terms than before) 100km long by 100 km wide....let's call it (100x*100y) to keep that clear......5(20x*20y)= 100x*100y.....in strict km terms, its 25 & slump is correct. In terms of long & wide as separate but equal units, its 5 times contracted....both are true pending how you want to spin it, lol

God I love GTPlanet.....

We have so little information from Polyphony we spend the majority of our time arguing over mundane minutiae...... not "how is the new livery editor going to work" or "what features will the new event creator have". Instead, we get such interesting discussions as above or the equally hilarious "continent discussion" from one of the other threads.

 

[MeanElf]

...How exactly are they improving? All we know is that we're getting the same old "rubbish" at release and we might get an update at some point. I'm not sure how you can claim they are improving when all evidence so far leads to the opposite direction.

Interesting that you ask how are they improving. True the sounds will likely be the same, or similar to GT5's at launch of GT6. However, with several statements as evidence that they are actually working on a new sound model, I'd have thought that would be sufficient proof that things with regard to sounds are not necessarily moving in the opposite direction.

The proof will be in the pudding as the old adage has it, and no one can state with authority that it will be worse without actually hearing those sounds - or have I been taking stupid pills?

 

[Samus]

Thing is though they've been working on PS3 games for eight years, just as long if not longer than any other developer. All that time and the new sounds are still not done, but Kaz claims they'll be ready post release. Surely you can see where the skepticism comes from wondering whether these new sounds will ever be ready for a PS3 game.

 

[MeanElf]

Sure, I can understand skepticism, but outright claiming of a viewpoint that is unsubstantiated, is wrong.

I think for most of that eight years, PD have not accepted that the sounds were an issue - though they have clearly worked on them. So only relatively recently have they accepted this and decided to make a greater effort. I mean the sounds are in a constant state of improvement - I'm not just talking about the HSV either. Last night while playing the current seasonal event, none of the whiteout volume shifts happened that were evident before when I came up behind another car. The sounds of those cars were also very different from each other and quite good. Okay, I was wearing headphones, so possibly that made a difference. In any case, to me that's proof that PD are still quietly patching improvements into GT5, even now.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Shock: being told what you want to hear makes you feel better!

Well, if that's all it'd really take, I'd be surprised.

That's not what I want to hear. What I want to hear is, "Fellas, the new sounds will be ready December 6 and they will blow you away!!!". What I want is the truth about what is going on with the major elements of the game not giggles and vague statements. Of course they can't give away any trade secrets and might want to keep some things as a surprise like what tracks and cars are in the game, but whether new sounds are in and when they are coming isn't a trade secret.

Interesting that you ask how are they improving. True the sounds will likely be the same, or similar to GT5's at launch of GT6. However, with several statements as evidence that they are making statements that they are working on a new sound model, I'd have thought that would be sufficient proof that things with regard to sounds are not necessarily moving in the opposite direction.

The proof will be in the pudding as the old adage has it, and no one can state with authority that it will be worse without actually hearing those sounds - or have I been taking stupid pills?

Fixed that for ya. All we have so far are vague statements and no real knowledge of anything regarding sound improvements.

 

[Cosbuster]

Interesting that you ask how are they improving. True the sounds will likely be the same, or similar to GT5's at launch of GT6. However, with several statements as evidence that they are actually working on a new sound model, I'd have thought that would be sufficient proof that things with regard to sounds are not necessarily moving in the opposite direction.

Working on something is not evidence we are getting something (even more so in PD's case but let's not go there), there's no actual evidence of any new sounds whatsoever other than the developer's wishlist and poor attempts at dubbing videos. On the other hand, we do know for a fact that the new sounds won't make it for release.



Seriously, all I've been seeing lately is this:



I feel like we've been chasing carrots on sticks for the past years.

 

[MeanElf]

As this site only operates on official comments from Sony/PD - that is all we have. I know people are wary after the statements before GT5 and the resultant omissions. I think they have learned from that though - after all there has been less hype and Kazunori-san is quick to update people if there is any likelyhood of a feature not making it into the game at release. I call that a change and a fair indication of how it will be.

I'm also still not seeing any evidence that things are going the other way than improving - however, believe what you wish fellas with your stock of funny pics.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm really surprised about how readily around here, no news is bad news.

It's not enough that Griffith500 digs up videos of GT5 sound improvements, which are quite a step up, or goes to exhaustive lengths to explain sound modeling and resynthesis without resorting to those awful comparisons and contrasts - because we know of course that every other racing game is perfect.

It's not enough that the GT6 engine is apparently improved in every way, when some of us were sure that the entire engine would have to be cut back in about every area in order for any improvements over GT5 to happen. After all, this is the first time in my memory that a game engine was markedly improved, not just tweaked, but seriously reworked, in a console's fifth or sixth (!) year of life. Yeah, likely the first time ever. Previously, devs were moving on to the next generation of hardware by this time.

People have enthusia'd over how much more lively the latest GT6 build is at Tokyo and the Eurogamer Expo. How it isn't GT5 anymore, but more like a sim than ever. What's more, the game is getting seriously close to release. Not long to wait, news or not, even when we really are learning tantalizing good things.

But this is GT Planet, The Real Griping Forums. Grrr indeed.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

I don't think it's possible to be "too hard" on a developer that sells about 10 million copies every release.

This is what they need. Heck, I actually think they need more. But the casuals don't care enough to speak up. They'll probably buy it anyways (then again, GT5 may have turned them away). At any rate, we, hardcore lunatics, speak because we truly want the game to be great again or because we already think the game is amazing (yes, there are still a few of these rare optimists around these parts).

Let's give them constructive criticism from hell.

 

[Cosbuster]

I'm really surprised about how readily around here, no news is bad news.

Isn't that something you also do? Except in your case, "no news is good news".

because we know of course that every other racing game is perfect.

And here we go again. It's not a binary case of either you are perfect or you are not, you can't lump everything together like that. 2/10 and a 9/10 are both imperfect scores in math but that doesn't make them the same. Same goes for the sounds. It also doesn't serve as an excuse in its own merrit. Others doing something bad doesn't justify you doing the same.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Previously, devs were moving on to the next generation of hardware by this time.

Sure, they didn't spend nearly a decade to make just one unfinished game.

The fact is that you are optimistic because you like PD and GT. The others, myself included, are pessimistic because we like PD and GT, and we did saw the mess that GT5 was at release and this new approach, the PD's secret society kind of public relations just makes everything looks even more troubled than before GT5's release.

All comes down to perspectives. You'll continue to praise PD shortcomings as if they were quality and we'll continue our criticism until the end of time.

 

[machschnel]

I'm really surprised about how readily around here, no news is bad news.

You must not be paying much attention, there's been plenty of news. I've compiled a list of some of the recent information we have received to be read at your pleasure.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-6-to-receive-large-day-one-patch/

https://www.gtplanet.net/new-gt6-engine-sounds-could-included-in-game-update/

And then there's this....

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-6-course-maker-tracks-could-span-over-2500-square-kilometers/

But don't get your hopes up because...

https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-tamir-moscovici-interview-jff-2013/

And of course TGS...

(link not found)

 

[archie_aileron]

Reading this forum is nauseating. People are either bitching and moaning about minor details, or have unrealistic expectations. They think anything they can dream of PD can just wish into the game.

As for broken promises if PD doesn't deliver on all their promises I am happy they are aiming high, and making the game the best it can possibly be. Making the next GT is a lot harder than being a cynical critic and internet **** talker.

I, for one, am just happy GT6 is coming out.

 

[machschnel]

They think anything they can dream of PD can just wish into the game.

No not anything, just things we are told will be in the game that later get dramatically downsized or postponed etc.

As for broken promises if PD doesn't deliver on all their promises I am happy they are aiming high, and making the game the best it can possibly be.

But that's asinine.

The "best possible game" would involve no broken promises (a nice euphemism for a lie anyway).

Does it matter where they aim if they miss the target all together?

 

[sems4arsenal]

Reading this forum is nauseating. People are either bitching and moaning about minor details, or have unrealistic expectations. They think anything they can dream of PD can just wish into the game.

As for broken promises if PD doesn't deliver on all their promises I am happy they are aiming high, and making the game the best it can possibly be. Making the next GT is a lot harder than being a cynical critic and internet **** talker.

I, for one, am just happy GT6 is coming out.

The funny thing is this forum almost all of requests here are strictly speaking realistic, as for people complaining, that's just their right as consumers and fans of the series plus the fact that voicing your opinion is kind of the point of an internet forum.

 

[gtsmashbros]

TBH Polyphony Digital, after releasing GT6 need to develop GT7 in a cave for the next indefinite amount of years. No contact with the outside world whatsoever, just an archive of the most requested things from GTPlanet and around the web, and a library of every GT game. They shall play each and every of the 10 or so games including spin offs and determine what went wrong and what is missing. They need to take notes on what they did right in every game, and what they did wrong. They should not tell us anything at all in the slightest until the last 6 months before release. They shall blowout how the game fixes nearly all the complaints. Then, as the gran turismo community is complaining about how there is actually nothing new, they release one FINAL trailer that shows all of the multitude of features they were able to add in solitude in that cave, with nobody bothering them. When the game comes out they then go back to their old formula of how they work on GTs, as GT7 will be the fixed foundation for a long time.


Outside of this cave allusion what I'm trying to say is PD need to (take me seriously here) take their time and reinvent Gran Turismo. Build a strong foundation with none of the flaws and failures and inconsistencies from previous games. After they have that they can do Vision GT or whatever they feel will spice up GT.


Just my .02 on this.

 

[sems4arsenal]

TBH Polyphony Digital, after releasing GT6 need to develop GT7 in a cave for the next indefinite amount of years. No contact with the outside world whatsoever, just an archive of the most requested things from GTPlanet and around the web, and a library of every GT game. They shall play each and every of the 10 or so games including spin offs and determine what went wrong and what is missing. They need to take notes on what they did right in every game, and what they did wrong. They should not tell us anything at all in the slightest until the last 6 months before release. They shall blowout how the game fixes nearly all the complaints. Then, as the gran turismo community is complaining about how there is actually nothing new, they release one FINAL trailer that shows all of the multitude of features they were able to add in solitude in that cave, with nobody bothering them. When the game comes out they then go back to their old formula of how they work on GTs, as GT7 will be the fixed foundation for a long time.


Outside of this cave allusion what I'm trying to say is PD need to (take me seriously here) take their time and reinvent Gran Turismo. Build a strong foundation with none of the flaws and failures and inconsistencies from previous games. After they have that they can do Vision GT or whatever they feel will spice up GT.


Just my .02 on this.

Agreed, maybe not reinvent but certainly need some big changes,the competition is just getting tougher,they've got the budget now they need better planning and a proper vision to stick with, I hope they will have official tie ins with GTPlanet.

 

[Cosbuster]

People are either bitching and moaning about minor details, or have unrealistic expectations.

Would you care to mention some of them? I'm really curious to see which things you consider minor and which unrealistic.

 

[TokoTurismo]

They'll probably buy it anyways (then again, GT5 may have turned them away).

Yeah. May have. I doubt it though thanks to GT5's updates fixing it back up. That's a plus imo.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Isn't that something you also do? Except in your case, "no news is good news".

Cue "but that's different!"

And here we go again. It's not a binary case of either you are perfect or you are not, you can't lump everything together like that. 2/10 and a 9/10 are both imperfect scores in math but that doesn't make them the same. Same goes for the sounds. It also doesn't serve as an excuse in its own merrit. Others doing something bad doesn't justify you doing the same.

But taking the childish "I guess every game is just perfect" retort to criticism from someone's arsenal would leave them without a reason to post!

When I played GT6 a week ago, I was stoked to drive the Z4 race car. It's sad that I was equally stoked the event going on around me drowned out the flat, generic race car tone so many other cars in GT5 were given. Nobody is expecting perfection in relation to the sounds (at least I hope not), but I think having cars that sound like some semblance of their real life counterparts isn't a big ask. Especially in the case of the Z4; that's new to the series, it was conceivably in PD's possession recently, so it could have been recorded.

Of course, I guess it depends on the prospective buyer's perspective. I'd much rather a more measured approach to adding cars to the game; if you can't model them to today's standards, or can't record a collection of sounds for the engine, then in my mind... maybe don't add that car? Others however would gladly sacrifice that for the sake of a higher car count, or recycled engine sounds. Neither one of us is technically wrong; I'd just rather a vaunted, system-selling title to hold itself to the highest calibre of quality available, and if it's going to be known for its exceptional graphics (as an example), I'd prefer that without a massive asterisk beside it 👍

Yeah. May have. I doubt it though thanks to GT5's updates fixing it back up. That's a plus imo.

Fixing up some parts, breaking others. Or perhaps you're just putting blinders on for that, but there were plenty of threads around here that dealt with those issues, to say nothing of the constantly-changing physics throughout GT5's updates.

Some of my more casual gaming friends hate the idea of having to get an update for a game every month. So it's certainly not always a plus

 

[TokoTurismo]

Fixing up some parts, breaking others. Or perhaps you're just putting blinders on for that, but there were plenty of threads around here that dealt with those issues, to say nothing of the constantly-changing physics throughout GT5's updates.

Some of my more casual gaming friends hate the idea of having to get an update for a game every month. So it's certainly not always a plus

Ahh, totally forgot about those. Well, I hope it doesn't occur again in GT6. There was really something wrong with GT5 though.

EDIT: However, aside from those from before. New features were be added in through updates too. Such as PP, new GT Home Themes, and Spec 2.0.

 

[Jawehawk]

When I played GT6 a week ago, I was stoked to drive the Z4 race car. It's sad that I was equally stoked the event going on around me drowned out the flat, generic race car tone so many other cars in GT5 were given. Nobody is expecting perfection in relation to the sounds (at least I hope not), but I think having cars that sound like some semblance of their real life counterparts isn't a big ask. Especially in the case of the Z4; that's new to the series, it was conceivably in PD's possession recently, so it could have been recorded.

To be fair, we don't know if they recorded the sound of the Z4. It's not uncommon for developers to wait with adding all the "real" sounds until just before the game goes Gold. Let me give an example. I was involved in the beta of a game called Wargame: Airland Battle. It used generic and boring sound effects as placeholders, and then just two weeks before the full game released, almost every single sound effect was changed into their own unique sounds.

Let me put it this way. Why would PD bother with adding the "real" sounds to their demo builds, if the people who are going to play them at the conferences can't hear the sound anyway?

In any case, I think it's far to early to talk about the sound in GT6 until PD shows us their alleged new way of recording sound. Might be good. Might not.

 

[Johnnypenso]

To be fair, we don't know if they recorded the sound of the Z4. It's not uncommon for developers to wait with adding all the "real" sounds until just before the game goes Gold. Let me give an example. I was involved in the beta of a game called Wargame: Airland Battle. It used generic and boring sound effects as placeholders, and then just two weeks before the full game released, almost every single sound effect was changed into their own unique sounds.

Let me put it this way. Why would PD bother with adding the "real" sounds to their demo builds, if the people who are going to play them at the conferences can't hear the sound anyway?

In any case, I think it's far to early to talk about the sound in GT6 until PD shows us their alleged ned way of recording sound. Might be good. Might not.

Oh I don't know, maybe because sounds have been substandard for a long time and some people are hanging on the edge about purchasing GT6 and it might help them to decide to buy the game?

 

[Jawehawk]

Oh I don't know, maybe because sounds have been substandard for a long time and some people are hanging on the edge about purchasing GT6 and it might help them to decide to buy the game?

Let me repeat. If the people who are going to play it at the conference, aren't going to be able to hear the actual sound, then there's no point.

And it sure is a good thing that PD has stated repeatedly that they are aware of the problem and are working on it. If consumers lack faith in that (and I'm not saying that they're worng for doing so), they'll just have to wait until after the game (and sound patch) is released, before they can use YouTube videos and what not to judge it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Let me repeat. If the people who are going to play it at the conference, aren't going to be able to hear the actual sound, then there's no point.

And it sure is a good thing that PD has stated repeatedly that they are aware of the problem and are working on it. If consumers lack faith in that (and I'm not saying that they're worng for doing so), they'll just have to wait until after the game (and sound patch) is released, before they can use YouTube videos and what not to judge it.

Let me repeat, people have in the past and can detect, even with the crappy audio in over-the-shoulder, handheld phone video cameras, the fact that the sound is exactly the same now as it was in GT5. If the sound were different i.e. better, that could be detected too, and create some buzz in the community. Not to mention of course, proper demo videos could be floating around the net, showcasing some new and better sound samples, if only for the new cars in the game.

It's marketing 101. You put your best foot forward when showcasing any new product, and if there are new sound samples they should be used, even in the crappy videos we've seen so far from gameshows.

 

[Chippy569]

Nobody is expecting perfection in relation to the sounds (at least I hope not)

Maybe not perfection, but for the best-selling game in the "sim racing" genre (which most likely comes with things like the best car manufacturer relations, the biggest budgets, and the best production team) I believe everyone is right to expect iterative improvements in every version, and this time around significantly so.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'm not expecting "Real Raceroom" sounds, that's honestly impossible and I hope nobody is expacting that either or else you'll fall into disappointment. At least nice sounding ones wouldn't be too bad.

 

[Tenacious D]

Isn't that something you also do? Except in your case, "no news is good news".

Well, to be precise, no news is fine with ME because the game is going to be in my cute little hands in a few weeks or so. Your news response may vary.

And here we go again. It's not a binary case of either you are perfect or you are not, you can't lump everything together like that. 2/10 and a 9/10 are both imperfect scores in math but that doesn't make them the same. Same goes for the sounds. It also doesn't serve as an excuse in its own merrit. Others doing something bad doesn't justify you doing the same.

It's known as context. Maybe you've heard of it. Let me illustrate with a nice little story.

The U.S. Chief of Armed Forces wants to assess the combat performance of the F-22 Raptor air superiority fighter versus the Russian Su-35 Flanker, and whatever the Russians have coming down the pike at it in the coming 20 years. An analyst comes in with his presentation. "You're gonna love this, because I broadened the scope of my analysis. Here we have:

• The Mil Mi-28 attack helicopter
• The Sukhoi Superjet 100 airliner
• The T90 third generation battle tank
• The Admiral Nakhimov heavy battleship
• The Tupolev A-3 Aerosledge transport hovercraft
• And the Proton-K heavy lift space rocket

The Commander bellowed "Where's the flogging gosh damned FLANKER AND ITS SUCCESSORS! It's the only Russian fighter REMOTELY COMPARABLE TO THE RAPTOR!!"

The analyst backpedaled a bit, saying, "W-w-well... I wanted to broaden the scope of my analysis to encompass similar systems to illustrate the differences in capability--"

The Commander illustrated his reaction by booting the analyst out on his kiester, by the boot.

Now, anyone who knows squat about anything military should grasp something so painfully obvious in my cute little storyboard here. There is only ONE game remotely like Gran Turismo in our little world. But we can't discuss it. All we have are games with completely different parameters in EVERY sense, so it's comparing apples to Volvos. Like my illustration above. Well, actually what we're left with is people like Griffith500 doing his best to point out technically how people aren't as understanding of the situation as they think they are. Though he's beginning to recycle his points now, so I'm not sure how much patience he has with this place.

So I guess think and say whatever you want. Obviously, that's all either side has now, thanks to the silly rules of debate we're stuck with.

The fact is that you are optimistic because you like PD and GT. The others, myself included, are pessimistic because we like PD and GT, and we did saw the mess that GT5 was at release and this new approach, the PD's secret society kind of public relations just makes everything looks even more troubled than before GT5's release.

All comes down to perspectives. You'll continue to praise PD shortcomings as if they were quality and we'll continue our criticism until the end of time.

Sure, that's just what I do.

Actually what I do is say that I'm not fussed with sounds that don't sound like the exhaust is blowing in your face, or Standard cars in GT5 because having a car is better than not having a car, and no one is forcing you to drive those cars, except possibly for a handful of events you can most likely skip if you want. Team Polyphony made a product, has issues that I dislike, and sometimes vex me, but it's a choice to enjoy the rest of a pretty darn full glass, or stare at the empty part and give myself ulcers over it. I'm much happier enjoying myself. I know that may come as a shock to some of you.

But honestly, I really don't get the warped satisfaction some of you get who can't grow tired of deriding this game, company and president. But what is supremely baffling is that some of you can't stand it if anyone has anything good to say about them, and spend a lot of time telling them how wrong / dumb / whatever they are. Spending all this negative energy and bellyaching for YEARS over things that won't change in GT5, and for which you likely have no idea what you're getting in GT6, is just mind boggling. Getting so negative and prejudgmental over a game most of you are going to enjoy a lot just makes no sense to me.

Jeepers, humans...

You must not be paying much attention, there's been plenty of news. I've compiled a list of some of the recent information we have received to be read at your pleasure.

(URLs)

Well, there have been a lot of interviews in which we learned a few details, but I think the board would let you know that the actual news and information has been relatively scant. Which is fine with me. It means lots of surprises when I fire up that game. Your firing up may vary.

The "best possible game" would involve no broken promises (a nice euphemism for a lie anyway).

Well, is that euphemism any better when the people here do it to describe what's wrong with GT5? I don't recall you ever hastening to reprimand anyone, so evidently that kind of lying is just fine.

Besides, every developer by your standards is a liar, because no game ever delivers all of its promises. So your "outrage" at Gran Turismo and PD is a bit unbalanced.

Just to reiterate, I have a lot more fun enjoying a meal or a game or whatever, and find endless bellyaching at the ones who took the time to provide it to be not fun at all. I mean seriously, if some of you treated your neighbors like this, I'm sure you'd get along famously. Like rival gangs.

Does it matter where they aim if they miss the target all together?

It depends on where they land. Some would say Course Maker I was a clear flop and wasted effort. On the other hand, I and a lot of people have made some much loved courses with it. My first actual track I made is possibly my favorite track in GT5 now. The 'Ring is undoubtedly the ultimate racing experience and I love it dearly. But the one I made is nicely laid out, long without being so long that five laps takes an hour, and a good foundation for a good three lap race.

Many hate the Standard cars with a passion. I love 'em.

Many hate the sounds as much. Oh well.

Many consider GT5 as a game to be a titanic disaster of titanical proportions. Oh well, I have fun with it, LOTS of fun, more than any other game I own.

I think the main thing that keeps you guys so wound up is that misery loves company, and I just won't drink the bitters with you all, and it gripes you out. Oh well some more.

 

[AnAL0G]

But honestly, I really don't get the warped satisfaction some of you get who can't grow tired of deriding this game, company and president. But what is supremely baffling is that some of you can't stand it if anyone has anything good to say about them, and spend a lot of time telling them how wrong / dumb / whatever they are. Spending all this negative energy and bellyaching for YEARS over things that won't change in GT5, and for which you likely have no idea what you're getting in GT6, is just mind boggling. Getting so negative and prejudgmental over a game most of you are going to enjoy a lot just makes no sense to me.

Jeepers, humans...

👍

Many hate the Standard cars with a passion. I love 'em.

What view do you use when driving? The cars are ok, but I have a hard time with the standard car cockpit view.

 

[Johnnypenso]

....completely pointless post rehashing topics that have already been covered and dealt with....

If the point of your post was to refute the idea that when challenged you simply throw up your hands and say, "Well I guess every other game is perfect then!" or words to that effect, you might want to go back to the drawing board. Instead of taking irrelevant examples completely off topic, try using your own words as examples of how you respond to legitimate concerns about the GT series, "Well I guess every other game is perfect" being a good example.