- 1,258
- Antti-san
- Antti San88
Exactly! đź‘Ť
Weird new
- Thread starter aurelio_911
- 110 comments
- 7,247 views
- 1,304
- GTP_Majik / Majik893
I would argue that rain, and the associated decisions made, adds a significant tactical element to a race, adding perhaps even more stresses on man and machine, just in a different manner.
How many times have we seen interesting races as a result of tire strategy choices and different driver's abilities in wet weather. The biggest thing for me when I watched Truth in 24 was the tension towards the end between Kristensen and his engineer over wet tires.
- 525
Yes, I do.
Look at Gran Turismo 5 Prologue - it is far from a finished game, but they could have included dynamic weather and damage in that build alone.
Look at Metal Gear Solid 4 - there is so much going on at once and with graphics that are jaw-droppingly amazing, that I think that Polyphony Digital could easily put both weather and damage in if they wanted to.
Killzone 2 and GOW III are two more examples of flat-out amazing graphics on the PS3. Gran Turismo 5 should have NO PROBLEM topping all of these in the graphics and features department - as well as surpassing our expectations.
Let's face it - changing weather is realistic. It really happens in real-life, so in keeping with Gran Turismo being a "Driving Simulator", it should include this simulation factor. You have to change your race style when it starts raining - heck, I have to change my driving style when it rains on my way to work, so I would love for Polyphony Digital to reflect that feeling.
Also, If I HAD to choose - I would choose weather over damage ANY day. Yes, damage is realistic too, but not as fun and atmospheric and seeing a storm coming and then driving in a thunderstorm - all the while battling it out for the Pole Position.
Rain = good. Snow = good. Damage = good. Windshield Wipers in Gran Turismo 5 for the rain and snow = good. [I don't know where I was going with that.]
This is exactly my point, people like you have low expectations. But come on it has been 5 years since GT4 and the PS3 has a lot more computing power over the PS2. I am just saying that PD needs to step up its game and develop a product that will crush the competition. Is having weather, damage, day/night, AND robust on-line racing leagues too much to ask for, really?
If we don't get these things then other competitors will come in and someone will get it right, it really isn't that hard. Give me 500 cars with damage instead of 700 without damage. Give me 70 tracks with weather instead of 90 without it.
Seriously, we need to demand more out of PD, I am tire of this "give me weather" and I am happy, or "give me private rooms and that is all I need". Give me damage and dynamic weather, and I can create a robust on-line racing league using an excel spreadsheet; it really isn't that hard.
dancardesigner
(Banned)
- 822
- dancardesigner
Agreed, ps3 should be easily capable of this especially when it's only running at 1280 1080 instead of true 1080p. I remember reading somewhere that ps3 is like 30x more powerfull than ps2, come on guys 30x, ps3 should have no problem adding these features, besides i beleive both weather and damage will be in the game because A: we have the weather reports at the top of the menu and B: I bet damage alone would take most of the computing power over damage and weather combined.
Surely weather can't be that costly unless it is fully dynamic but to be honest even if it's just a case of the game switching from dry to wet every 30 minutes or whatever i will be happy. Damn i remember f1 world grand prix (1997) on n64 having that, and it did make the gameplay more fun and tactical.
As for day/.night cycle i don't know how costly that would be performance wise but i do know that in crysis in pc wether you have the dynamic tod running or disabled it does not appear to affect the framerate from what i've noticed.
Anyway it's not like Kaz doesn't want to include these features, at the end of the day it all comes down to wether the ps3 can handle it. People need to cut polyphony some slack and let them do what their doing, they know best. At the end of the day everyone has high expectations of the game but i am sure we wont be dissapointed, and if you are one of the few that still won't be happy then theres always GT6 lol.
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In the end I will not be disappointed as long as I can compete (meaningfully) on-line in the form of some kind of a league; I really hope they try to make system similar to iracing.
But PD made its name on innovation, and weather, damage day/night is by no means innovative and therefore PD has to have them in GT5. But when you add 600 cars and 90 tracks to the equation with the best graphics in the industry, now we're talking innovation.
But PD made its name on innovation, and weather, damage day/night is by no means innovative and therefore PD has to have them in GT5. But when you add 600 cars and 90 tracks to the equation with the best graphics in the industry, now we're talking innovation.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I think you put this section a bit awkwardly, but I'll use it to address the rest of the class who insist that Kaz and the lads HAVE to put the whole shebang of real life in GT5 or they're lazy or something.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the PS3 is one of the most powerful game systems on the planet, this side of the latest $1000 and up gaming PC, which I have, and being custom designed by me, it's about like a $2000 Alienware rig. But if you think having damage, or weather, or day cycle changes are easy, just consider Alan Wake. How long was it in development? Years, and primarily because of all the environmental effects like weather and damageable structures. In fact, a couple of years ago it required a quad core PC for the demo, it was only running about 20fps or less, and it crashed it. Alan Wake also doesn't have to concern itself with "real running physics" or the performance differences between hundreds of brands of footwear.
Everything you do in a game requires a performance budget. Every feature requires some ram and access to a processor core, and there's only so much any system can do at once. The PS3 has a wealth of resources compared to other consoles, but you have to be very careful what you do in each clock cycle. If you have a game keeping track of physics, collision and damage modeling, bot A.I., weather effects like falling rain, polygon, texture and light rendering ALL at the same time, you have to be very precise with how you shuffle the system traffic around, or there will be problems. Performance could crawl, such as when you see a lot of particle effects in replays and the framerate drops. Collisions of systems trying to grab an SPU at the same time might cause the game to crash.
Research into the PS3 nuts and bolts might have yielded a GT Engine 2.0 by now, but I'm betting it's more like 1.5 or so. So GT5 will be the first real game from Polyphony. Whatever we get, it will be because the team worked their butts off for us, so please be appreciative of what GT5 gives us.
- 600
- 15,494
- UK
The biggest obstacle with damage is licensing and the detail of those licenses. I can't express how obscure licenses can be. For example, no point having damage for 50% of cars and keeping Ferrari and Porsche in, than leaving Ferrari and Porsche out and having 100% of cars in the game with damage. That would be an incomplete game, it's either all the same or none at all, and they won't be leaving a big manufacturer out.
Why is damage such a big issue the series has never had it and racing sims have had crash-able cars for ages. It's just not important to the majority of the fan-base, people want to drive, not to crash. Sakon Yamamoto excluded.
Damage is out of their hands at the end of the day. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if weather was affected by track licenses!
Why is damage such a big issue the series has never had it and racing sims have had crash-able cars for ages. It's just not important to the majority of the fan-base, people want to drive, not to crash. Sakon Yamamoto excluded.
Damage is out of their hands at the end of the day. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if weather was affected by track licenses!
- 24,662
- Anoka, MN
Ferrari and Porsche have nor problems with their cars being damaged as they were both in F2. Also as I've said in other threads the "It's never been in GT before" argument is a bad one. I guess by that argument we don't need weather, online, in-car view or any car newer than the 2005 model year.
Also, the biggest part of the fan base is going to be the casual gamer as every game has that as thir primary target as that's who buys the most games. I can tell you right now that the review magazines will knock the overall score down because they will view it as an incomplete game without damage. This will cause a number of people to view it as an incomplete game and in turn not buy it.
Also, people don't buy racing games with damage for the damage, they buy it for the racing. Damage just makes it seem funner and more realistic.
Also, the biggest part of the fan base is going to be the casual gamer as every game has that as thir primary target as that's who buys the most games. I can tell you right now that the review magazines will knock the overall score down because they will view it as an incomplete game without damage. This will cause a number of people to view it as an incomplete game and in turn not buy it.
Also, people don't buy racing games with damage for the damage, they buy it for the racing. Damage just makes it seem funner and more realistic.
dancardesigner
(Banned)
- 822
- dancardesigner
Well even if the magazines and reviews give it 10/100 im still buying it. At the end of the day most people will buy gt5 just because it is gt5, plus it has many qualitys to make it worth buying regadless of wether it has damage or not, polyphony know what they have to do to get more sales, it's just a case of wether the manufacturers participate. Damn thinking about just how many manufaturers are going to be in gt5 means there will most likely be at least one who doesn't want damage to their cars, so if you go by the all or nothing principal then you can bet there will be no damage, i however don't go by this principal, im sure at least racing cars will have damage, including the gran turismo tuned varients. The level of damage is most likely just going to be capped and that overall cap is probably going to be limited by a particular manufacturer, otherwise online will probably turn into destruction derby if the people drive anything like they do now. Lol i can just see 100% damage and a car doing 250mph the wrong way round daytona into the pack coming the other way. 500mph wipe out.
Dude you bolded the words in my post out of context. I was saying that it is not so hard to create an awesome on-line experience, which only needs a good idea.
We need to get damage and weather, because it will not be perfect in GT5, and PD needs something to build on so that by GT7 or GT8 they will finally get it right.
People on GTPlanet are setting expectations way too low. If PD were to read some of these posts, they would only give us weather and some liveries editor and think that everyone is satisfied. I expressed my opinion that we should get (for PD's sake) damage AND weather AND day/night AND great on-line experience and everyone is bashing me that I am asking for way too much. If everyone thought alike then PD would be under more pressure to deliver all those things, but you guys are giving them a justification to do less.
- 24,662
- Anoka, MN
Well a lot of people will buy it just because it is GT doesn't mean everyone will. You are forgeting that there are more people who aren't motorheads than are. These people will make up PD's main demographic and most also go by what score a magazine gives it.
A good example would be the SOCOM series, the latest game got bad reviews and sales went down. It's more than coincidence, people read and react to these reviews whether you realize it or not.
dancardesigner
(Banned)
- 822
- dancardesigner
Im not forgetting, i stated in my post polyphony knows what they need to do to get more sales, but i was just saying that wont stop me personally from buying it.
Also as a side note do you think they will simulate ragdoll with the driver?
lol i can see people will want that 100% realistic as well, heads rolling all over the track.
- 152
- Killumaniti
damage should come with the game and weather should be DLC. besides damage > weather, right?
- 24,662
- Anoka, MN
I kind of agree. The one problem people keep having is realising weather is more than just rain/no rain, it also means temperature changes as well as cloud coverage which play a major role in any race. I would rather have the two things I listed than rain as that isn't as important to me.
- 600
I just think itÂ’s a little disrespectful and belittling of PD to think they really donÂ’t know we want more online features, damage, weather, glowing hot brakes, backup lights, more tracks, more cars.
IÂ’m pretty sure they are working their ass off right now making the best damn racing game they can make under the limitations of software/hardware/budget and time.
So when I read the words “IT REALLY ISN”T THAT HARD”, it’s just a little bit irritating.
Fair enough if you want to give them higher expectations to work towards, there should be threads like these to help PD gauge what features are more important to fans, but please don't pretend its just some cake walk for them.
IÂ’m pretty sure they are working their ass off right now making the best damn racing game they can make under the limitations of software/hardware/budget and time.
So when I read the words “IT REALLY ISN”T THAT HARD”, it’s just a little bit irritating.
Fair enough if you want to give them higher expectations to work towards, there should be threads like these to help PD gauge what features are more important to fans, but please don't pretend its just some cake walk for them.
Dude you bolded the words in my post out of context. I was saying that it is not so hard to create an awesome on-line experience, which only needs a good idea.
We need to get damage and weather, because it will not be perfect in GT5, and PD needs something to build on so that by GT7 or GT8 they will finally get it right.
People on GTPlanet are setting expectations way too low. If PD were to read some of these posts, they would only give us weather and some liveries editor and think that everyone is satisfied. I expressed my opinion that we should get (for PD's sake) damage AND weather AND day/night AND great on-line experience and everyone is bashing me that I am asking for way too much. If everyone thought alike then PD would be under more pressure to deliver all those things, but you guys are giving them a justification to do less.
- 6,668
- Hanover/Germany
- alexpkas
Comm on people, don't make things more complex than they are. In this case the game just could switch to damage OFF mode for ALL cars in the field and the problem would be solved. Stop always whining over every little detail and start thinking first before posting *no offence-seriously*.
- 6,668
- Hanover/Germany
- alexpkas
Hm, I still do not really understand why you are so cinvinced about that, but, you know what, let's just wait for E3 and hear/see what the MAN (KAZ) has to say/show. đź‘Ť
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
- 2,472
- Virginia USA
- SuperCobraJet1
I do agree that in a 24 hour race having to run in the rain if necessary is more expected and acceptable, since it is part of the scheme of things, and would be very difficult to attempt to work around.
- 24,662
- Anoka, MN
So pointing out flaws is a bad thing?Comm on people, don't make things more complex than they are. In this case the game just could switch to damage OFF mode for ALL cars in the field and the problem would be solved. Stop always whining over every little detail and start thinking first before posting *no offence-seriously*.
- 6,668
- Hanover/Germany
- alexpkas
-.-, get over it, seriously. I said it is pointless to point out flaws which in truth are no flaws, because there is always a solution. And i gave you an example.
( Putting damage mode to OFF so you can race your 350z or so against a GT-ONE racecar for example.)
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I can see that your experience in dealing with major manufacturers is just about zilch.
I work in the US federal guvmint, not all that high up the tree thank God, but just dealing with our own people is a PITA.
- 24,662
- Anoka, MN
I can see that your experience in dealing with major manufacturers is just about zilch.
I work in the US federal guvmint, not all that high up the tree thank God, but just dealing with our own people is a PITA.
You're right I don't have any experience with manufacturer's. Although I have played enough games with Ferrari and Porsches in them that also have damage to know that it is possible to have it in the game.
Also, how is being a mailman treating you. I'm sure a lot of people are mad about the price hike.
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