What exactly is wrong with swearing?

[photonrider]

I read somewhere once, that the most often used last words found recorded on the Black Boxes recovered from crash sites, were " Oh! ****!"

 

[Sttrobe]

Everytime I hear the word, swear, curse ect.

pops in my head.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

A simple question that I have no idea of the answer to.

Why are certain words considered bad? Why are some words ("f-word" and "c-word") worse than others ("d-word" and "h-e-double hockeysticks")?

I can understand why words that target specific people ("n-word") would be wrong to say, but what is the difference between saying "you're a piece of crap" and "you're a piece of 's-word.'" They both mean the exact same thing, but somehow one is considered worse than the other. Why?

Swearing, cussing, etc is all about context. It's possible to know quite alot about a subject and still convey your message more concisely with the "F" word, specifically. For instance, a context where swearing motivates and conveys a very clear message is a Drill Sergeant, US Army, leading soldiers in physical training, or da da da,...da da da. Sorry that last part was out of context and not AUP compliant. Conversely, If I were to swear on this forum, it violates the AUP. I like to look at life as a collection of restraints, "social boxes" or "hat's we must wear." Personally, when in daily speech, its difficult for me to break the habit of dropping the "F" bomb in the wrong context as you might know, the military is known for. I wouldn't say swearing is a lack of character as some of the bravest and smartest men I've ever known served along side me. Some would even try to argue that character is somehow based on how much you swear--Largely untrue. For instance, combat has a tendency to force a man to cycle the entire spectrum of emotions in a 30 second span. This can cause even the puritans to lose the social restraint and utter Satan's tongue. Language is highly complex and anyone who claims to know everything about is either lying or an orator. Sometimes, those two go hand in hand if you know what I mean. I would even go so far as to say swearing is used by many as a defense mechanism.

NOTE:I have only served in the US military so before anyone starts thinking I'm trying to say "the US is the best" keep in mind it's only an example for which I have personal knowledge.

 

[Touring Mars]

Expletives are the clearest form of communication that exist.

Billy Connolly summarises this point rather well here (obvious language warning). He's also said elsewhere, "You never see the sentence ' "🤬 off", he hinted' "...

More often than not, I hear people use swear words unnecessarily, and it just makes them sound dense, vulgar, aggressive or a mixture of all three. But, there's definitely a time and a place for them, and when used appropriately, they can be devastatingly effective and/or funny.

 

[homeforsummer]

I swear whenever it will make my statement funnier which is pretty much most of the time I'm not on GTP.

That would explain why you're so unfunny on GTP

 

[Sttrobe]

Owned^

 

[Danoff]

So the original question posed was why is it ok to say poo and not the word that means exactly the same as poo but starts with sh. Nobody, absolutely no one is offended when I type "poo". But when I use the other word some people will become offended. Why? Exactly the same mental imagery is evoked. It's the same substance (which we are all intimately familiar with and currently in the biological process of producing). It has exactly all of the same connotations except one - emotion.

...and that's the beauty of swear words. They're loaded with emotion, and that's why some people find them offensive. You say "poo" instead of the other word while you're at the office for the same reason that you don't yell "that's a dumb idea bob!". Because you're trying to create a pleasant, calm, emotionally controlled and peaceful atmosphere that is conducive to work. It's not because the word physically means anything different, it's because it emotionally means something different.

And that's a good thing. It's important for language to be versatile enough to convey thoughts and feelings, and expletives do it simultaneously. They shouldn't be removed from your vocabulary for exactly the same reason they shouldn't become your vocabulary.

Edit: ...that reason, of course, being that they become useless to you if you refuse to use them or if you use them too much and they lose their emotional context. Which is why if you want to defuse a word like the n-word, which always has the potential to be used, you should over-use it to the point where it means nothing. Kinda like how people in the UK have over-used the c-word to the point where it means so much less than it does in the US. Dropping a c-bomb in the US is one of the worst words we have (short of the n-word).

 

[Keef]

Because you're trying to create a pleasant, calm, emotionally controlled and peaceful atmosphere that is conducive to work.

Maybe in an office but step in a machine shop with an idea like that and you'll be called a pussy. Beyond professional situations, I'm not very good at judging where not to say what some people think I shouldn't say. It's very frustrating having to accommodate others' emotional fragility.

Also, South Park. It's my time to relax and revel in childish toilet humor and not have to deal uptight assholes.

 

[Danoff]

Doesn't matter what the situation is, it's the meaning that is conveyed that's important. And it's the same meaning in the machine shop as it is in the office, it's just achieved through a different balance.

That being said, the machine shop balance makes it difficult to convey anger, resentment, or disrespect. The office atmosphere, on the otherhand, makes it more difficult to convey satisfaction with work product, approval, support, etc.

Here's a statement:

"Not as bad as usual bob."

Put that statement in a shop atmosphere and it conveys massive approval and satisfaction. Put that statement in an office and it conveys disapproval and disrespect.

In order to tell someone they did a good job in an office you have to say something like:

"That was friggin unbelievable. Nobody in the history of man has ever done anything as good as you just did with that spreadsheet. They'll sing songs of this moment throughout history. I'm dead serious."

In order to tell someone they did a bad job in a shop environment you have to say something like this:

"If you ever do that again you're fired. Dead serious."


...neither one being dead serious.

 

[Famine]

Edit: ...that reason, of course, being that they become useless to you if you refuse to use them or if you use them too much and they lose their emotional context. Which is why if you want to defuse a word like the n-word, which always has the potential to be used, you should over-use it to the point where it means nothing. Kinda like how people in the UK have over-used the c-word to the point where it means so much less than it does in the US. Dropping a c-bomb in the US is one of the worst words we have (short of the n-word).

Has to be said that the c-word is the #2 in the UK, behind the n-word. It's just about the top of the tree for words to follow "You" when used to indicate your displeasure with someone - the n-word occupying a specific social niche for such situations.

 

[Danoff]

When you say #2 you mean in the commonly-used not-meaning-much category right?

What's like the worst generic insult you have? For women here the c-word is the worst possible thing you can call them. Even whore (or the s-word version of that) has less punch. Same for the n-word for black people unless you're black in which case it means chum. I can't really think of a single-word generic insult for a white dude that's guaranteed to piss them off. Maaaybe d-bag if you use it just right.

Edit:

Actually maybe keef figured it out in his previous post... To take his point further I think maybe the worst thing you can you can generically use against a stereotypical white-dude is to call him gay.


Edit:

I just can't get over how odd it is that the the US the biggest hot-button you-will-get-punched-in-the-face words are just nothing in the UK. Language is pretty cool.

To reverse roles that'd be like "jerk" being the worst possible insult in the UK.

 

[Keef]

That being said, the machine shop balance makes it difficult to convey anger, resentment, or disrespect. The office atmosphere, on the otherhand, makes it more difficult to convey satisfaction with work product, approval, support, etc.

This is definitely the case. It's virtually impossible to tell when one of your buddies in the shop is actually angry because everybody always sounds like they hate each other. I've stepped across a line or two and it wasn't pretty. It helps you get comfortable with the rough side of life I suppose though the thoughtlessness of the dirty vocab doesn't really meld with my personality.

For example, you can't make a joke funnier with strategic cursing in the shop because they expect the cursing anyway. Then again, when these guys find something funny they're reactionless. When the joke isn't funny they let you know with a "That was a stupid joke, Bob," or something along those lines.

 

[Famine]

No, it's right up the top. It's just about the only word that a single utterance will guarantee an 18-rating to a film - but it's not a female-targetted insult.

If you want to upset a British woman, just call her a bitch. Or a whore/slag - not even commonly censored words. See you next Tuesday doesn't have the same specificity, but it's considered wa-hey more offensive. Even Barryboys censors it - to "front bottom".

 

[Keef]

Actually maybe keef figured it out in his previous post...

Pussy. That's about the only one. Never degrade a man's manliness unless he starts it but even then it can get sketchy. Even the nerdiest of nerds will fire off an "eff you!"

 

[Danoff]

No, it's right up the top. It's just about the only word that a single utterance will guarantee an 18-rating to a film - but it's not a female-targetted insult.

...yet it gets used all the time? Seems like it would lose its panache.

If you want to upset a British woman, just call her a bitch. Or a whore/slag - not even commonly censored words.

Women use those terms affectionately with one another here. Also disaffectionately, but it doesn't have as much weight as it used to.

See you next Tuesday doesn't have the same specificity, but it's considered wa-hey more offensive.

Huh? I'm totally lost. What does that mean? Is "see you next tuesday" an insult?

 

[Touring Mars]

Huh? I'm totally lost. What does that mean?

Copper Nanotubes...

 

[Danoff]

Urban dictionary to the rescue! Got it.

 

[Famine]

...yet it gets used all the time? Seems like it would lose its panache.

Really not so often. I can't say I've heard it said out loud by anyone other than me in the last couple of years.

Oddly there's a direct alternative to it - Travelling Wave Amplifier Tube - which is... nothing now. It's not the level I'd be happy with Minifam using on a daily basis, but it is used so often that it's almost lost its meaning. Strangely, Travelling Wave Amplifier Tube is also used in bonkbuster housewife porn books, often implying "a ready and inviting place", whereas See You Next Tuesday has a dirtier, more brutal, gritty inference behind it.


Man it's tough to describe these things and stay inside the AUP.

Women use those terms affectionately with one another here. Also disaffectionately, but it doesn't have as much weight as it used to.

Smaller social groups have their own rules. If another BBer called me a Charlie Uniform, it'd be almost affectionately!

But yes, bitch/whore/slag/slapper will annoy most British women very effectively, regardless of the speaker.

 

[Diogo]

When my friends call me any word I laught and same to them. My balck friends don't mind me to call them n-word , I can't understand why some people take it wrong

 

[Danoff]

Really not so often. I can't say I've heard it said out loud by anyone other than me in the last couple of years.

Did it use to be more popular? For a while there it seemed like dropping a c-bomb was very British - I can almost put my finger on movies that have used that to establish extreme Britocity.

Oddly there's a direct alternative to it - Travelling Wave Amplifier Tube - which is... nothing now. It's not the level I'd be happy with Minifam using on a daily basis, but it is used so often that it's almost lost its meaning.

That just doesn't get used here. It's not that it's super offensive, it's just missing. I think if you used that word here people would giggle because it's such an odd choice rather than getting offended.

 

[Famine]

Did it use to be more popular? For a while there it seemed like dropping a c-bomb was very British - I can almost put my finger on movies that have used that to establish extreme Britocity.

Two words: Hugh Grant.

The last two films I've seen with an instance of the C-word were South Park (Cartman) and Blade Trinity (Ryan Reynolds - in a first class outburst of conjugate expletives).


Oh, also "minger". Women hate being called mingers.

 

[Mrs. Famine]

On a slightly different path but related to language - if a UK primary school child used the word "fanny" in class, then they'd be lightly chastised as in the UK that's slang for the vagina. Yet in the US, it's what you call your bum!!

(UK - Fanny pack = sanitary towel )

In other news, Mini-Fam the elder yesterday told me all about a car sticker she'd seen which read "Cool as penguin piss". It's not considered swearing in this house, nor is crap because both words are used on mainstream TV. However, if my niece of the same age used the words crap or piss in front of her parents she would be severely punished.

 

[Famine]

Actually, it's what they call their ass. Their bum is a homeless relative.

 

[Carbonox]

"Cool as penguin piss"

I find that offensive.

 

[MSTER232]

Actually, it's what they call their ass. Their bum is a homeless relative.

That's what she said...

 

[Famine]

I should also clarify that a US ass is a UK arse, not a UK ass which is a US mule.

Which I think all means that when an American says "donkey" he means "vagina". Or something.

 

[Omnis]

If you want to insult someone in America, you have to be really specific. You can't just call them a See You or a puss or something. Women will get mad at the C-word, but fights will start if you specifically call someone out on their past, their behavior, or their actions.

Trust me, there were so many cat fights at my high school. It's fun to watch what sets them off as opposed to what just builds the tension.

 

[Danoff]

In other news, Mini-Fam the elder yesterday told me all about a car sticker she'd seen which read "Cool as penguin piss". It's not considered swearing in this house, nor is crap because both words are used on mainstream TV. However, if my niece of the same age used the words crap or piss in front of her parents she would be severely punished.

For me that was "sucks" - as in "that sucks". My parents insisted that it was profane despite being on television and widely used by all of my friends. Naturally that censorship ended when they decided to start using it.

I've had some interesting discussions about "sucks" as an insult. I've had to explain on a few occasions that it's fundamentally a male-on-male insult, the accusation being that one of them is gay. I don't see it being aimed at women (originally).

Lots of things seem to start off as men making fun of each other. Keef's insult earlier isn't so much about degrading women as it is about not accepting female behavior from men.

 

[Famine]

For me that was "sucks" - as in "that sucks". My parents insisted that it was profane despite being on television and widely used by all of my friends. Naturally that censorship ended when they decided to start using it.

I've had some interesting discussions about "sucks" as an insult. I've had to explain on a few occasions that it's fundamentally a male-on-male insult, the accusation being that one of them is gay. I don't see it being aimed at women (originally).

Lots of things seem to start off as men making fun of each other. Keef's insult earlier isn't so much about degrading women as it is about not accepting female behavior from men.

I've heard tell that the origin isn't in oral sex (which would make little sense - something sucking is awesome; okay, so you might not want another guy doing it, but then the phrase just ends up as "you're a dude"), but in car mechanics.

As in you take your car to one and his response is to suck his teeth before telling you a load of crap that he's going to needlessly bill you for. Thus something that is bad leads to the sucking of teeth, ergo it sucks.

Of course the oral sex connotations have lead folk down the path of 2nd generation slang (where slang evolves through association with other things, to new words meaning the same thing) to "that blows".

 

[Danoff]

I've heard tell that the origin isn't in oral sex (which would make little sense - something sucking is awesome; okay, so you might not want another guy doing it, but then the phrase just ends up as "you're a dude"), but in car mechanics.

Not quite. If you say "you suck", you're saying "you're a gay dude". Which then becomes "that sucks" meaning "that's gay". It then loses all meaning by the time it's a reference to a chick, at which point it should no longer be an insult.

As in you take your car to one and his response is to suck his teeth before telling you a load of crap that he's going to needlessly bill you for. Thus something that is bad leads to the sucking of teeth, ergo it sucks.

I've never heard that. Unfortunately I don't feel safe googling it from work.

Of course the oral sex connotations have lead folk down the path of 2nd generation slang (where slang evolves through association with other things, to new words meaning the same thing) to "that blows".

I never got blows even as a direct reference. There is no blowing involved (that I'm aware of - maybe I'm just missing out). Seems very strange. I'm sure it comes from something.