What is happening to some people in the Sarthe enduros?
- Thread starter Zardoz
- 287 comments
- 64,113 views
- 385
To me everything seems to point at the AI drafting you at the end of the straight.
Since a few have said in this thread and that I have experienced it myself this might be the problem...or not??
I remeber when I passed the R89C after the hump,looking back and sees that he has locked his steering to right and slams in to the wall letting the V12 LMR pass and hes is back in third. ( he made a pretty nice 360 spin too
)
Since a few have said in this thread and that I have experienced it myself this might be the problem...or not??
I remeber when I passed the R89C after the hump,looking back and sees that he has locked his steering to right and slams in to the wall letting the V12 LMR pass and hes is back in third. ( he made a pretty nice 360 spin too
)I did the Sarthe II race in b-spec (non-chicanes, I think that's II...) with the Sauber C9, and saw him go insane once. It's the NTSC-J (Chinese) version. Throughout the race, he was driving beautifully on level 4 (I think about 5000 points). I had it all tuned perfectly (to the best of my ability)...low spring rate, slightly high ride, optimized downforce, etc. I can't vouch for him during the 9 or so hours of time I was asleep, but once, with about 3 hours left, I looked up and saw him spinning all over in the middle of Mulsanne. I didn't see anything leading up to it, I just heard him hit a wall, and then he was confused, and I was like, "wtf?" I was 2 laps ahead though, so I still won the race. I figured he just hit a bump funny.
- 87,589
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
If you watch the AI closely enough - and this particularly applies in the F1 series, since you can get very close at the same speed - you can see that all the way down the Mulsanne their cars are moving laterally quite a bit, as if they're using DFPs set to 100% FF.
LandoAWD
I will do it this weekend. Unless someone else beats me to it.
I propose Minolta.
Max HP.
Test 1 - Stock everything except long gears.
Test 2 - Raise front 10mm, rear 15mm and small softening of springs and shocks.
I will probably end up doing the full 24 hours to get the cashx2, 1 extra Bentley and sell 1 - I want the money as I would like to complete my JGTC collection.
I need to check my 2 Minoltas for chassis condition and whether I have installed the stiffener. Any proposals as to what to run. My preference to guarantee win is chassis refresh but am open to stiffener or not (I think I have one with and one without).
- 371
- Wild_Cobra_Z28
Well, I hadn't even attempted using any of the cars you guys are having trouble with on the two sarth 24 hour races. However, from what I have seen of the track, the long straits are bumpy enough to cause everything you guys are complaing about. Especially is you don't choose your setups well and run to much on red tires. Watch what the tires do. If your pit light comes on, and you still have most the track to travel, you are asking for trouble! I have even seen instances where the tires are so red, the cars can miss pitting, then run out of fuel also. Now 50 (52?) MPH is how fast the invisible tow truck takes you is youi run out of gas. That is like 3 laps worth of time if you run out of fuel too far away! That, with the fact you go over 400 laps on each, there are serious probablilities for troubles. You need a car fast enough to limit yourself to setting 3 also. By the was, I hve the USA NTSC version.
My first 24 hour race was the Nurnburgring. Because I was alweady conscious of the HP loss over distance, I choose a car that was just fast enough to beat the cometing line without excessivly lapping it. That car ended up being the Camaro LM Race Car, no oil change. It started at 601 HP and beat the Nissan Falcon by 4 laps in B-Spec mode, completeing 196 laps. I kept an eye on it every so often in case I would loose ground, but never did. It pitted every two laps I think. When I finished, it only had 593 HP. I later raced again to put some miles on my Saleen to attempt higher A-Spec points for the Saleen S7 Club races, but only took the Saleen from 558 HP to 551 HP. N1 Tires and 200 KG ballast still only yields 187 A-Spec points if wou can drive that slippery car with N1's.... I couldn't.
Putting about 2000 miles on the Camaro, I knew the milage would be far higher with the Sarth races. I had already done the Extreem - Formula GT races before starting the Sarth 24 hour races. I noted that you could not change the oil in the Formula Gran Turismo, and that it never loses it HP. For that reason, I choose to race the Open Wheel car against those nice ones. I decided the Formula Gran Turismo was the only car to use for this race in B-Spec mode.
I started the Sarth I race, I believe 100% stock settings, but I'm not certain. After I was about 1-1/2 minute ahead of the 2nd car, I experimented how slow I could go. 1-Slow kept pace just right. I finished the 24 hr Sarth I with about a 2-1/2 minute lead. My Sarth II is at just now at 366 laps at 20 Hr 2 Min so I cannot check my car settings. I did, however, race while I slept on 3-Steady, but now that I am +3 laps of the Minolta Toyota 88C-V, I put it to 1-Slow. 2-Cruise is about right for Sarth II. Any faster than 3 can have any of the cars do wierd things on Sarth, I've seen it on trial runs!
Besides the bumpy track, and red tires, the cometition is as rude as Dale Earnhart... They Bump and Run too hard! That A-Hole Dale should be kicked out of Nascar for as hard as he does that at times. Anyway, those other cars drafting and hitting you while brakeing on curves is also a big problem. Another reason not to overpower and go just a little faster than the competition. The more times you have to pass, the more time you have cars in your backwash, drafting you.... Big issues if their AI driver doesn't break hard enough and pushes you off the track... Seen it so many times...
My first 24 hour race was the Nurnburgring. Because I was alweady conscious of the HP loss over distance, I choose a car that was just fast enough to beat the cometing line without excessivly lapping it. That car ended up being the Camaro LM Race Car, no oil change. It started at 601 HP and beat the Nissan Falcon by 4 laps in B-Spec mode, completeing 196 laps. I kept an eye on it every so often in case I would loose ground, but never did. It pitted every two laps I think. When I finished, it only had 593 HP. I later raced again to put some miles on my Saleen to attempt higher A-Spec points for the Saleen S7 Club races, but only took the Saleen from 558 HP to 551 HP. N1 Tires and 200 KG ballast still only yields 187 A-Spec points if wou can drive that slippery car with N1's.... I couldn't.
Putting about 2000 miles on the Camaro, I knew the milage would be far higher with the Sarth races. I had already done the Extreem - Formula GT races before starting the Sarth 24 hour races. I noted that you could not change the oil in the Formula Gran Turismo, and that it never loses it HP. For that reason, I choose to race the Open Wheel car against those nice ones. I decided the Formula Gran Turismo was the only car to use for this race in B-Spec mode.
I started the Sarth I race, I believe 100% stock settings, but I'm not certain. After I was about 1-1/2 minute ahead of the 2nd car, I experimented how slow I could go. 1-Slow kept pace just right. I finished the 24 hr Sarth I with about a 2-1/2 minute lead. My Sarth II is at just now at 366 laps at 20 Hr 2 Min so I cannot check my car settings. I did, however, race while I slept on 3-Steady, but now that I am +3 laps of the Minolta Toyota 88C-V, I put it to 1-Slow. 2-Cruise is about right for Sarth II. Any faster than 3 can have any of the cars do wierd things on Sarth, I've seen it on trial runs!
Besides the bumpy track, and red tires, the cometition is as rude as Dale Earnhart... They Bump and Run too hard! That A-Hole Dale should be kicked out of Nascar for as hard as he does that at times. Anyway, those other cars drafting and hitting you while brakeing on curves is also a big problem. Another reason not to overpower and go just a little faster than the competition. The more times you have to pass, the more time you have cars in your backwash, drafting you.... Big issues if their AI driver doesn't break hard enough and pushes you off the track... Seen it so many times...
One more request - for those who have this problem - how often does it happen eg every 5 laps, every 50 laps etc
I will watch the first stint in real time and then switch to director mode 3x and watch a stint or two but after that I will only keep switching it to 3x and usually sleep from hours 12-18ish and then come back to switch to 3x again. After the race I will save the replay but presumably it will only save the first xx minutes of the race. If the problem occurs while I am asleep I will not know about it.
I will watch the first stint in real time and then switch to director mode 3x and watch a stint or two but after that I will only keep switching it to 3x and usually sleep from hours 12-18ish and then come back to switch to 3x again. After the race I will save the replay but presumably it will only save the first xx minutes of the race. If the problem occurs while I am asleep I will not know about it.
Zardoz
Zardoz - do we know if the people who are losing are tuning the gears. If B-Spec Bob is inexperienced he would have no hope without tuning gears.
For anyone who loses here is my quick tune strategy.
If add hp to Minolta then slide tune gears by sliding auto gear 3 clicks to the right. If no extra hp only slide 2 clicks.
Raise rear by 15mm, Front by 10mm. Lower spring setting by 3-5 clicks front and rear and bound rebound by 1 click front and rear.
Use Racing super hard all round.
Remember this is a quick tune for an easy win. It has never failed me. I reckon the only spin I have had is without raising the ride height but it did not prevent me from winning. I can not help but think it is a ride height issue causing the spins and gear issue preventing the wins for the people who are struggling.
Other settings will result in easier wins and better A-spec rides but I think this is a simple and for me fail safe rule. And if all I want is guaranteed win I do max the turbo.
We may need someone to test inexperienced B-Spec drivers with the 2 setups.
I will do a full writeup and link it in this thread. It will include full settings including B-Spec stats before and after for test 1 and 2. My B-spec driver has a lot of miles under his belt. Half of them at the Nurb just like half of my A-spec miles would be at the Nurb (it has felt like that recently).
If we are to get to the bottom of this issue I suggest someone else tests the exact same setups with an inexperienced b-spec driver. This should be on PAL version. It may be useful for NTSC to be tested as well but PAL for a start.
After my test this weekend I will test (not for full 24 hours though) default gear settings vs my quick tune and (hopefully) prove my win vs loss theory ie I think people are losing as they do not tune their gears at all. My settings may still be too short but they have worked for me. I will do this test over 3 race hours and with non tuned hp - gears will be the key.
To those who have the spin problem - mid straight - what car does it - is it group C only. I can test another car as well. It could be a traction problem after a bump.
Has anyone had the issue with Audi R8, Bentley or Pescarolo ?
edit: I may not post my findings until Tuesday.
I will do a full writeup and link it in this thread. It will include full settings including B-Spec stats before and after for test 1 and 2. My B-spec driver has a lot of miles under his belt. Half of them at the Nurb just like half of my A-spec miles would be at the Nurb (it has felt like that recently).
If we are to get to the bottom of this issue I suggest someone else tests the exact same setups with an inexperienced b-spec driver. This should be on PAL version. It may be useful for NTSC to be tested as well but PAL for a start.
After my test this weekend I will test (not for full 24 hours though) default gear settings vs my quick tune and (hopefully) prove my win vs loss theory ie I think people are losing as they do not tune their gears at all. My settings may still be too short but they have worked for me. I will do this test over 3 race hours and with non tuned hp - gears will be the key.
To those who have the spin problem - mid straight - what car does it - is it group C only. I can test another car as well. It could be a traction problem after a bump.
Has anyone had the issue with Audi R8, Bentley or Pescarolo ?
edit: I may not post my findings until Tuesday.
- 961
People from Aus, Eur & UK will almost certainly have PAL, US has NTSC and this thread is not really for US players as the problem (mentioned before) seems to be PAL only.
I have had it happen with Minolta, FI and the Bentley Six. My B-spec ranged from 2000-5000. Sometimes you can get many clear laps and then it happens 3 laps in a row. There does appear to be a randomness to the problem, and it didn't stop me winning 24hr races I have just put it down to being a minor glitch. Bit more frustrating if you are B-spec'ing shorter races, but then you should be A-spec'ing those.
Steven
I have had it happen with Minolta, FI and the Bentley Six. My B-spec ranged from 2000-5000. Sometimes you can get many clear laps and then it happens 3 laps in a row. There does appear to be a randomness to the problem, and it didn't stop me winning 24hr races I have just put it down to being a minor glitch. Bit more frustrating if you are B-spec'ing shorter races, but then you should be A-spec'ing those.
Steven
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I think a soultion to the problem may be in the fact that the 24-Hour Enduros are the first time a lot of gamers are using B-Spec. If you check your Status screen, you'll notice that B-Spec Bob (or in my case, B-Spec Bella) has ratings for machine skill, track skill, aggressiveness and km/miles driven. You need to run Bob or Bella on a heap of tracks with a heap of cars with a variety of points ratings (worry about this bit last, build up your car and track skills first) and have a few thousand B-Spec kilometres/miles clocked up and Bob or Bella will really be able to drive.
- 961
'Do you race ?' I don't think you read my thread (or any others for that matter) above did you ? The facts do not align with your comments.
Fyi first B-spec for most people is probably the cash cow European race to win&sell the 800K cr Merc SLK.
Steven
Fyi first B-spec for most people is probably the cash cow European race to win&sell the 800K cr Merc SLK.
Steven
Not sure if this testing is going to happen.
I ran a Minolta at Le Sarthe II Enduro.
It had 1218PS, B Spec 8403 93/85/82 but with experience here with this car.
No chassis refresh as it did not need it.
Super hard tires all round as that is what I used first time.
Ride height raised 15mm front and 10mm rear. - edit 15mm rear, 10mm front.
Springs down to 14.3 and 15.3, dampers all 7. Gears auto 20 (3 clicks to the right).
All other settings default.
Field Nissan R89C, 787B, Sauber, Minolta, Jag.
Ran at 3x overtake on.
Lap 1 top speed 217mph, lap 3.28.683. AI Minolta slid into the right at the end of the straight and then chopped me off which held me back.
Lap 2 3.22.442 uneventful but still fighting in the pack.
Lap 3 running behind the nissan and mazda probably half in the draft and half out of the draft on the left hand side. Suddenly veer right and run along the side but not for as long as some.
Watched the replay from 3 angles and can not see anything causing it. No sparks at all on the straight. Tires are chirping. If anything it could be brake lockup but I don't know if it is just before or just after the car loses control.
My guess - dodgy AI. I will try again over the weekend but tonight I decided I would run the Nurb 24 hour as I don't want to risk losing Le Sarthe.
I ran a Minolta at Le Sarthe II Enduro.
It had 1218PS, B Spec 8403 93/85/82 but with experience here with this car.
No chassis refresh as it did not need it.
Super hard tires all round as that is what I used first time.
Ride height raised 15mm front and 10mm rear. - edit 15mm rear, 10mm front.
Springs down to 14.3 and 15.3, dampers all 7. Gears auto 20 (3 clicks to the right).
All other settings default.
Field Nissan R89C, 787B, Sauber, Minolta, Jag.
Ran at 3x overtake on.
Lap 1 top speed 217mph, lap 3.28.683. AI Minolta slid into the right at the end of the straight and then chopped me off which held me back.
Lap 2 3.22.442 uneventful but still fighting in the pack.
Lap 3 running behind the nissan and mazda probably half in the draft and half out of the draft on the left hand side. Suddenly veer right and run along the side but not for as long as some.
Watched the replay from 3 angles and can not see anything causing it. No sparks at all on the straight. Tires are chirping. If anything it could be brake lockup but I don't know if it is just before or just after the car loses control.
My guess - dodgy AI. I will try again over the weekend but tonight I decided I would run the Nurb 24 hour as I don't want to risk losing Le Sarthe.
- 1,202
gumpy
There was a certain randomness to it but it seemed to never happen on his out lap after a pitstop (blue tyres) but would tend to happen on his first flying lap after a pitstop (green tyres) if it was going to happen at all. I just tend to let him fill up at a pitstop so he would have a problem while running with plenty of fuel. On his third or fourth lap after the pitstop, on red rear tyres, he would predictably fail to make the corner at the end, but would not have the problem on the straight.
Again, car was Formula GT, B-spec Clown Fish had about 6000 - 7000 points, machine skill was 80 - 90, other skills were 65 - 75 and 55 - 65 respectively. Can't remember precisely.
Oh yeah, he had no such troubles running in the 1000 Miles! event at Le Sarthe 11, in an Alfa Spider Duetto. It is easy to test if it is car dependent - just enter him in the Sarthe 24 hrs in some average road car, and don't be too embarrassed about him being lapped a lot. I will try if I get a chance, but I am sure the answer is that in, say, a Mini Cooper / Nissan Skyline (any version) / ZZ11, he will have no trouble on the straight, while in a racing car like the group C cars etc, which experience that strong wheel shake at high speeds, on standard settings, he will fall off the track.
Further, I will speculate that in a fast car with violent steering wheel shake at high speeds in A-spec, he will have problems. If the same car can be tuned to reduce this feedback in a-spec, then b-spec blob will have fewer problems. I myself have, in a-spec, hit a bump at just the right angle on the left lane of Mulsanne, and been bounced all the way over to the other side of the road before I could recover. If I had been bounced to the left nad not the right, I would have hit the barrier side on.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I'm just pointing out a common problem I've found elsewhere - a lot of people I've talked to have pointed out they can't win the 24H races in B-Spec, purely because they haven't actually used B-Spec. I wasn't trying to provide a one-size-fits-all problem, but rather point out that what a lot of people may think of as a glitch or whatever may not actually be so.StevenDunn99
And fyi, read my profile. You might then notice that I'm absolutely nowhere near said Euro race.
This happens to me as well, B-Spec driver hamering along the straight on sarthe he just turns into the wall for no reason, I have also had lots of crashes into other cars on this straight. tyres were fine, car was a Red F1. also the F1 max's out at around 216mph even if you change the gearbox settings, but on the second part of the straight in sarthe you sorta get a turbo boost upto around 225mph for no apparent reason, only happens randomly.. Anyone else noticed that?
PAL version
PAL version
- 385
maybe K.Y intended to do this,forcing us to race 24hr of pain... 
- 407
Not true. I did exactly what you said 2-3 times and have never had any problem winning all 3 24hr races in b-spec. Last time I tried I sent Bob off on the Ring with 0,0,0,0 points and he won driving one of the MB Touring cars. He got 2200 points for that, so I sent him on to Sarthe 1 in the R89 and he won by a couple laps but gained only a couple 100 points. Finally the Sarthe 2 in the Sauber which he won by a lap or so. Total 2700 point after all three. Other times I did the same with different cars. I never use Bob for anything but the 24 hours races. NTSC/NA version BTW. Always have Bob run in 2 (if possible still keeping the lead) or 3 (if not) with overtake on.Do you race?
- 371
- Wild_Cobra_Z28
First of all, very few of your are indicating 1-5 (Slow down to Push) on your Sarth issues. Setting 5 WILL have problems on sarth unless you find a car that will track the roughness in the rouad fast enough, and still be able to corner! Setting 4 will also cause issues, but not as often!
People, just try the 100% default settings of the Formula Gran Turismo car. Start the car in 3-Steady. If you are going to keep an eye on it every so often, you can put the car on 1 or 2 (respectively for Sarth I and II) after you are about ½ lap ahead of the lead AI car.. You will pit every 5 laps and the competition every 8-9 laps. This method will keep you separated most the time from the other cars, and mainly away from the fastest car which will cause you the biggest drafting issues.
Well, I wish I could say for certain, but I cannot. I believe the troubles are:
1) suspension setup; bumps in the road throwing car .
2) B-Spec setup (using 4- Fast or 5-Push) Speed selection 1 to 5 (slow down to push) determines how dangerous the AI driver pushes the car. He will run off the track with almost any 200+ MPH car on Sarthg on a setting of 4 or 5
3) HP loss over the long duration
4) Bumper Thumpers i.e. opponent hitting your car, not braking as fast or better top speed and hitting you on straits.
5) running out of fuel . Missing pit entrance cause ties are red
6) Tires and tire wear. Tire wear changes with the 1 to 5 setting. Find tires and setting that toggles the Pit light near the end of the lap, not near the beginning of the lap.
7) Drafting . Anything you are closing behind another car, your speed increases with the craft. This is a dangerous time if the tires are bouncing on rough tarmac and Sarths straightaway is rough for 200MPH!
I do not believe the problems are related to:
1) NTSC/PAL, etc
2) B-Spec points
On problem #7, Gumpys example: Lap 3 running behind the nissan and mazda probably half in the draft and half out of the draft on the left hand side. Suddenly veer right and run along the side but not for as long as some. If you are in a draft, and only half in it, it wants to pull one side of the car harder than the other. Coupled with the roughness of the road at probably 205 MPH, the air turbulence tried to spin the car! Grumpys car just reacted to the conditions.
OK, so I had nearly no points before the Sarth I and many more during the Sarth II I saw no difference in the cars handling. On the three long courses, Nurnbrigring, and Sarths, I was concerned mostly with tire wear. I specifically chose a tire/car combination to avoid running too long on red tires. I think that and running on 3-Steady for Sarth are the keys to my success.
My order of B-Spec racing
1) Races 8, 9, and 10 of Professional Gran Turismo World Championship w/Mazda 787B (first 7 A-Spec)
2) 24 Hour Nurnburgring with Camaro LM Race Car default settings
3) 24 Hour SarthI 24 Hour Endurance with Formula Gran Turismo, default settings
4) 15 race championship, Formula GT with Formula Gran Turismo
5) 24 Hour Nurnburgring with Saleen S7 (overshot pit seveal times and ran out of fuel... red tires... still won!
6) 24 Hour Sarth II 24 Hour Endurance with Formula Gran Turismo, default settings
7) Rest of endurance with various cars
I have yet to see someone agree or disagree with my assessments. I dont think the B-Spec stats have much, if anything to do with the problems. I only did 4 B-Spec races before the Sarth I, and had no problems. I did all but one of the Endurance in B-Spec, but started the Sarth I with single digit points, like 6 and 7 for Machine, Course and Battle, and maybe 2xx points for total skill? After finishing the Endurance races, my points are now:
17876 B-Spec Miles
3583 Skill
45 Machine Skill
34 Course Skill
34 Battle Skill
I am now at 49.2% completion and 31473 A-Spec points USA/NTSC version
If interested, my competition and starting order (I started 6th) was:
Sarth I
2001 Audi R8 Race Car
1998 Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car
1998 Toyota GT-One Race Car
1989 Nissan R89C Race Car
1999 BMW V12 LMR race Car
Sarth II
1989 Sauber Mercedes C 9 Race Car
1989 Minolta Toyota 88C-V Race Car
1988 Jaguar XJR-9 Race Car
1992 Nissan R92CP Race Car
1992 Peugeot 905 Race car
People, just try the 100% default settings of the Formula Gran Turismo car. Start the car in 3-Steady. If you are going to keep an eye on it every so often, you can put the car on 1 or 2 (respectively for Sarth I and II) after you are about ½ lap ahead of the lead AI car.. You will pit every 5 laps and the competition every 8-9 laps. This method will keep you separated most the time from the other cars, and mainly away from the fastest car which will cause you the biggest drafting issues.
Well, I wish I could say for certain, but I cannot. I believe the troubles are:
1) suspension setup; bumps in the road throwing car .
2) B-Spec setup (using 4- Fast or 5-Push) Speed selection 1 to 5 (slow down to push) determines how dangerous the AI driver pushes the car. He will run off the track with almost any 200+ MPH car on Sarthg on a setting of 4 or 5
3) HP loss over the long duration
4) Bumper Thumpers i.e. opponent hitting your car, not braking as fast or better top speed and hitting you on straits.
5) running out of fuel . Missing pit entrance cause ties are red
6) Tires and tire wear. Tire wear changes with the 1 to 5 setting. Find tires and setting that toggles the Pit light near the end of the lap, not near the beginning of the lap.
7) Drafting . Anything you are closing behind another car, your speed increases with the craft. This is a dangerous time if the tires are bouncing on rough tarmac and Sarths straightaway is rough for 200MPH!
I do not believe the problems are related to:
1) NTSC/PAL, etc
2) B-Spec points
On problem #7, Gumpys example: Lap 3 running behind the nissan and mazda probably half in the draft and half out of the draft on the left hand side. Suddenly veer right and run along the side but not for as long as some. If you are in a draft, and only half in it, it wants to pull one side of the car harder than the other. Coupled with the roughness of the road at probably 205 MPH, the air turbulence tried to spin the car! Grumpys car just reacted to the conditions.
OK, so I had nearly no points before the Sarth I and many more during the Sarth II I saw no difference in the cars handling. On the three long courses, Nurnbrigring, and Sarths, I was concerned mostly with tire wear. I specifically chose a tire/car combination to avoid running too long on red tires. I think that and running on 3-Steady for Sarth are the keys to my success.
My order of B-Spec racing
1) Races 8, 9, and 10 of Professional Gran Turismo World Championship w/Mazda 787B (first 7 A-Spec)
2) 24 Hour Nurnburgring with Camaro LM Race Car default settings
3) 24 Hour SarthI 24 Hour Endurance with Formula Gran Turismo, default settings
4) 15 race championship, Formula GT with Formula Gran Turismo
5) 24 Hour Nurnburgring with Saleen S7 (overshot pit seveal times and ran out of fuel... red tires... still won!
6) 24 Hour Sarth II 24 Hour Endurance with Formula Gran Turismo, default settings
7) Rest of endurance with various cars
I have yet to see someone agree or disagree with my assessments. I dont think the B-Spec stats have much, if anything to do with the problems. I only did 4 B-Spec races before the Sarth I, and had no problems. I did all but one of the Endurance in B-Spec, but started the Sarth I with single digit points, like 6 and 7 for Machine, Course and Battle, and maybe 2xx points for total skill? After finishing the Endurance races, my points are now:
17876 B-Spec Miles
3583 Skill
45 Machine Skill
34 Course Skill
34 Battle Skill
I am now at 49.2% completion and 31473 A-Spec points USA/NTSC version
If interested, my competition and starting order (I started 6th) was:
Sarth I
2001 Audi R8 Race Car
1998 Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car
1998 Toyota GT-One Race Car
1989 Nissan R89C Race Car
1999 BMW V12 LMR race Car
Sarth II
1989 Sauber Mercedes C 9 Race Car
1989 Minolta Toyota 88C-V Race Car
1988 Jaguar XJR-9 Race Car
1992 Nissan R92CP Race Car
1992 Peugeot 905 Race car
Very intresting Topic but Guys, Deal with it.You can not expect every race and competitor to be perfect.Just put it down to one of those quirky things that happen in racing!
I did a few quick tests of the 24 Sarthe II(B-Spec) and Guess what? one car managed to go off at the halfway mark on the striaght---the first place Sauber Mercedes.It appears to happen after the tyres turn yellow and there is a massive bump in the road at that spot.So a car with a yellow grip level,going over 350 Km/h and hits that bump, What do you expect to happen??
No matter how good any Driver is(B-spec or A-spec) you are going to have problems controlling that car.
I think the problem is that people are relying too much on the B-spec to do enduro's.I have a policy of diong at least 75% A-spec and 25% b-spec.(Which is hard to organise the time as I'm a Single parent and workin') How i'm going to do a 24hr enduro is someting that I might have to re-arrange my time around.
I did a few quick tests of the 24 Sarthe II(B-Spec) and Guess what? one car managed to go off at the halfway mark on the striaght---the first place Sauber Mercedes.It appears to happen after the tyres turn yellow and there is a massive bump in the road at that spot.So a car with a yellow grip level,going over 350 Km/h and hits that bump, What do you expect to happen??
No matter how good any Driver is(B-spec or A-spec) you are going to have problems controlling that car.
I think the problem is that people are relying too much on the B-spec to do enduro's.I have a policy of diong at least 75% A-spec and 25% b-spec.(Which is hard to organise the time as I'm a Single parent and workin') How i'm going to do a 24hr enduro is someting that I might have to re-arrange my time around.
After testing the formula car at de la Sarthe II extensively in free run I came to the conclusion it is all about ground clearance. Setting your ride height too low will result in crashes using B-Spec.
However: minor changes in spring rate / downforce / gear set up / LSD will have a major effect on the crash behavior.
For instance changing ride height on the formula car 1 mm at a time (65 / 65 - 64 / 65 - 63 / 65 etc.) will, not changing any other settings, give a different outcome in the number of clean laps (better: laps without major crashes). Most of the times you will get 0 clean laps and suddenly you get 10 clean laps by changing the ride height just 1 mm. The same goes for downforce settings / damper settings / gearing or LSD.
My findings suggest the formula car in PAL cannot be raised high enough to avoid bottoming out and therefor will crash sooner or later. Believe me I have tried so many combinations of ride height / downforce / springrates / damper that in the approximately 200 hours (sick I know) I would have stumbled upon a stable setting for the formula car.
For the other fast cars (eg LMP) the solution is in the ride height, changing the standard setup of those cars only for ride height will result in a stable setting.
So my theory is that the road pattern (the consequitive bumps) forms a kind of wave pattern. The setup determines the cars own wave pattern (max load on springs, lowest ride height / min load on springs max ride height). If those two paterns are interfering the formula car will crash. This happens when the springload is maxed and the car bottoms out
In the PAL version it does not seem possible to find any setup that will let the formula car run clean for more than 16 laps (free run). This is at B-spec speed setting 3
Ergo sum: don't use the formula car for the de la Sarthe II endurance if you want to be sure to win. Use a fast car, upp the HP and choose lasting tires but never forget to test if the ride height is sufficient.
Edit: This goes for the PAL version. In the settingsforum here at GT Planet Rk has shown that settings that will not work on PAL versions will run clean in NSTC / America versions.
However: minor changes in spring rate / downforce / gear set up / LSD will have a major effect on the crash behavior.
For instance changing ride height on the formula car 1 mm at a time (65 / 65 - 64 / 65 - 63 / 65 etc.) will, not changing any other settings, give a different outcome in the number of clean laps (better: laps without major crashes). Most of the times you will get 0 clean laps and suddenly you get 10 clean laps by changing the ride height just 1 mm. The same goes for downforce settings / damper settings / gearing or LSD.
My findings suggest the formula car in PAL cannot be raised high enough to avoid bottoming out and therefor will crash sooner or later. Believe me I have tried so many combinations of ride height / downforce / springrates / damper that in the approximately 200 hours (sick I know) I would have stumbled upon a stable setting for the formula car.
For the other fast cars (eg LMP) the solution is in the ride height, changing the standard setup of those cars only for ride height will result in a stable setting.
So my theory is that the road pattern (the consequitive bumps) forms a kind of wave pattern. The setup determines the cars own wave pattern (max load on springs, lowest ride height / min load on springs max ride height). If those two paterns are interfering the formula car will crash. This happens when the springload is maxed and the car bottoms out
In the PAL version it does not seem possible to find any setup that will let the formula car run clean for more than 16 laps (free run). This is at B-spec speed setting 3
Ergo sum: don't use the formula car for the de la Sarthe II endurance if you want to be sure to win. Use a fast car, upp the HP and choose lasting tires but never forget to test if the ride height is sufficient.
Edit: This goes for the PAL version. In the settingsforum here at GT Planet Rk has shown that settings that will not work on PAL versions will run clean in NSTC / America versions.
I never had a problem (i have PAL version) i just started the race with b-spec on 4+overtake came back 24 hours later and it was at the win screen on one of them.
Another i saw the last few laps and the slow ass Ford GT was in a wall on the back section and didnt move for the last 20-30 laps i saw :| but yeah my driver never went off the track and won that race by 10+ laps or so (cant remember exact #).
I think he was around 6k points at that point and driving R92CP w/t stage4 turbo otherwise completely stock
Another i saw the last few laps and the slow ass Ford GT was in a wall on the back section and didnt move for the last 20-30 laps i saw :| but yeah my driver never went off the track and won that race by 10+ laps or so (cant remember exact #).
I think he was around 6k points at that point and driving R92CP w/t stage4 turbo otherwise completely stock
Pescarolo Judd
Have not documented exact settings but ride height is almost at maximum. Springs dropped 5 clicks each. Shocks dropped 1 click all round.
Hard tires on front, super hard rear. Gears at max autoset.
Brakes 4 front, 2 rear. Max HP.
Jag spun on first lap mid straight. Will check the replay after.
For me 2.5 hours no probs - 1 lap up on 787B and Sauber. Then 3 spins in 4 laps. No car in sight. First spin level with first chicane on green tires. Second spin 1 lap later on green/yellow tires near where second chicane is. Third spin on blue tires mid straight.
Was not watching normal so do not know what happened but the Pesky does not have much more height in her.
I will now change to hard tires on rear and see if that helps.
I am sing 3x, overtake on. Quickest lap about 3.10. I will post more details tomorrow. It is looking more like AI all the time to me. I will test stiffer suspension later and see if that helps.
I watched the first 2 laps and saw no sparks so height should not be the issue.
I will test a deliberately low car as well to see if that increase the frequency of the issue.
Have not documented exact settings but ride height is almost at maximum. Springs dropped 5 clicks each. Shocks dropped 1 click all round.
Hard tires on front, super hard rear. Gears at max autoset.
Brakes 4 front, 2 rear. Max HP.
Jag spun on first lap mid straight. Will check the replay after.
For me 2.5 hours no probs - 1 lap up on 787B and Sauber. Then 3 spins in 4 laps. No car in sight. First spin level with first chicane on green tires. Second spin 1 lap later on green/yellow tires near where second chicane is. Third spin on blue tires mid straight.
Was not watching normal so do not know what happened but the Pesky does not have much more height in her.
I will now change to hard tires on rear and see if that helps.
I am sing 3x, overtake on. Quickest lap about 3.10. I will post more details tomorrow. It is looking more like AI all the time to me. I will test stiffer suspension later and see if that helps.
I watched the first 2 laps and saw no sparks so height should not be the issue.
I will test a deliberately low car as well to see if that increase the frequency of the issue.
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