What makes Nurb hard?

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What do you think makes the Nurb hard? I say its just a bunch of corners, like Suzuka or El Capitan, only a lot more of them. But then you consider the length of the course with the corners.

So the 20 km track isn't what makes it hard, its the 20 km of corners in the track between the S/F line, that makes it hard. And then you consider there are all types of corners/turns, like increasing and decreasing radius, hairpins, probably 90º turns, etc...

And I tried searching but the results were like Race Reports and Nurb-haters. Sorry.
 
The length of it, as it is the most grueling circuit in GT4. Also since GT4 has wierd physics, it also adds to the difficulty. The curbing on the ring can throw your car off pretty easily. The short high speed section (After the last sandtrap through the turn before the karrousel) is very bumpy and the curbing is making it worse. This is not good for a Formula Gran Turismo. Also let's not forget the part where you jump, and have a turn to make as soon as you land (Or even BEFORE you land! :scared:) This is also what makes the Nurburgring the ultimate test circuit. Also that high speed long uphill section can be trickier than it appears. The weight is shifted to the rear, so your car turns less than you expect. There's alot more things that make it a tough circuit.
 
It's a very tough track, and very long, but I may eventually run it in my Miata (1989 NA FTW!! Great on tires, 220hp, little/no wheelspin [only in slow corners], and just a great car overall) on the 4HR enduro. Why? I find that it's long enough to not be repetitive, and it is an enjoyable circuit overall for me. That jump? It might be slower, but it works: brake before it a little bit. Just enough to not come off the ground. Can't turn a car with all four tires in the air very well, can you?

And I'll try using a RX-7 LM on the 24hrs, as I no longer have an FGT. Sold that *****! (what, I wasn't using it!)
 
What do you think makes the Nurb hard? I say its just a bunch of corners, like Suzuka or El Capitan, only a lot more of them. But then you consider the length of the course with the corners.

So the 20 km track isn't what makes it hard, its the 20 km of corners in the track between the S/F line, that makes it hard. And then you consider there are all types of corners/turns, like increasing and decreasing radius, hairpins, probably 90º turns, etc...

And I tried searching but the results were like Race Reports and Nurb-haters. Sorry.

So let me get this straight... you think the nurb is hard because it has lots of corners... HMM

DUH it would be pretty damn easy if it was a straight line:dunce:

It is because of the length (making it hard to memorize and perfect), because of the narrow road (meaning less room for error), it is because of the bumps and uneven surface (meaning upredictable traction and softer suspension requirements) and finally because just like most real race tracks yes... it has corners.

But it is also the most fun course in the game!

Nurb haters are wussy
 
Not a difficult track at all in the game...

... but in real life, I would have to wear a diaper.

Just keep practicing unil you can run it with your eyes closed.

The only reason i play GT4 now is for the zen-like quality of The Ring.
 
Yes it is... but i don't think the fact that a track has corners makes it hard... I'm not putting anyone down... I Just think there is much more to it than he expressed.
 
Classic lines don't work for it, because the road is so severely crowned in so many places. In a classic line, you'd be far to the right coming into a left, but many places here you have to stay in the center of the track, or even inside of center, to keep the camber under you. That makes you head to the far outside at the exit if you're not prepared.

On a classic track, a mistake costs you in the turn, if you've got the power you can make it up in the straight, or at least make the next few turns better than the rest. At the 'ring, everything has to flow together, so a botched turn costs you through the rest of the lap, and probably costs you the next 3 or 4 turns as well, since you're out of position.

Also there are several sections where consecutive turns should be treated as a single sweeper as much as possible, but most folks don't do that, they yank, straighten, yank, straighten, no rhythm and no flow.
 
Greetings Yon Ring Runners,
The Nurburgring is 80 years old, and when first constructed was over 14 miles long. Currently it is just a bit under 13 miles long.
What makes it so difficult is that aside from the 172 turns, there are some 980 feet of elevation change. As fantastic as GT4 is, it cannot provide the dynamic graphics or physics to accurately depict this single most important element, hence the difficulty in truly mastering said track. Couple this with the multiple surface changes, from tarmac to concrete and numerous patches you have a formula that challenges the most skilled drivers.
Porsche test drivers are able to lap this course in about 8 minutes, which is considered quite fast. Once you understand the physics of your particular car, and then the dynamic of the track your times will drop accordingly.
Enjoy yon Ring!
Fangio
 
if you think its hard in gt4, try it in TT. the bumps are so bad in places both wheels are off the ground.

the hardist part for me, besides the bumps, is my lack of consistency. i find that despite losing 4 seconds in one sector i can still end up 5 seconds up by the end of the lap.

one of these days ill go back with the fgt and see if i can finally beat the my 5'07.
 
It's only hard because you can't ever memorize it...

Besides a few standout turns, the whole course seems unfamiliar no matter how many times you race it.

At least thats how it is for me.
 
What makes the Nurb' hard? Where do I start?!?!? :scared:

Hard to memorise, bumpy roads, uneven and changing surfaces, convex roads, blind corners, dumb AI, and there are times where i sware the grass sucks me off the track :crazy:

Besides, i prefer to call it "Challenging" :grumpy:
 
What do you think makes the Nurb hard? I say its just a bunch of corners, like Suzuka or El Capitan, only a lot more of them. But then you consider the length of the course with the corners.

So the 20 km track isn't what makes it hard, its the 20 km of corners in the track between the S/F line, that makes it hard. And then you consider there are all types of corners/turns, like increasing and decreasing radius, hairpins, probably 90º turns, etc...

You pretty much answered your own question (and my answer is the same as yours). The only thing I would add is memorization. I had a hard time memorizing the Ring, but now that I have it memorized, it almost seems like the back of my hand. I could get those turns in my sleep!

....and thus follows the challenge. The only thing harder than memorizing it is when you're deep in a race and have to catch up to another car that has got way ahead of you...getting all those corners down can be very intense in this situation.
 
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I don't want to sound like a broken record but I say it's because it's GT4's physics. I don't have any problems with it in FM2.

Seriously, though I find it really interesting how physics make that much of a difference. I don't have problems memorizing the track, I don't have any problems handling the bumps, and it's not that long to me. I think it's a ****ing fun ass track in FM2.
 
DWA
I don't want to sound like a broken record but I say it's because it's GT4's physics. I don't have any problems with it in FM2.

It's kind of hard to blame it on GT4's physics, and then bring in the disgrace that is the FM2 'Ring.


For me, the 'Ring isn't so much hard, but a challenge. The 'Ring is very easy depending on the vehicle. Many slower type cars like a Civic will find the Nurburgring just a long drive. But for cars like Porsche, the challenge and difficulty comes from driving fast. The main reason I don't find the 'Ring very hard is because after many, many laps on various games in various cars, and a few laps in real life, I can easily imagine the layout. The only thing difficult to me is finding the ability to go very fast through the course.

And the way I've done so is by finding the 'Ring's "Roller Coaster Line". Confusing, yes, but to me, there is a certain line throughout the course that will make any car follow the "smooth" movements of a roller coaster. This is highly thanks to the elevation you encounter on the track mixed with the different sets of turns. The best area I find to find this line is by driving from the Karussell to the Pflanzgarten II. A better area to really see it in action is starting at Hohe Acht, and running to Eiskurve. Just running in this area should show you that "roller coaster" feel of the track.

In explination, it starts something like this. After leaving Wippermann, you'll begin running to a left hander that'll appear to have a bank on its inside corner. The bank is incredibly small, but is enlarged in feel thanks to coming off the hill before it. Afterwards, you'll very soon, come off a right hander that dips into a short piece of straight. As soon as you come off the banked-down curve on to the straight, you'll be climbing back up. Right here you should be getting through these turns at quite a speed. But it will require a short amount of braking as you begin an uphill, right hander that leads into Eiskurve. Afterwards, you'll encounter Pflanzgarten I and its turns. This "feel" continues on til' you get to Schwalbenschwanz. Thanks to this chunk of the track, imho, you can really see the smoothness of the line as you feel the car's body going from side-to-side by the turns as well as it dipping in the front and back thanks to the elevation. Couple this feeling together, and you'll get something very similar to a roller coaster.

The big difference between the coaster though (despite there being no rails on the Nord.), are the bumps. This is what makes driving the line tough as nails. One second, you'll be running that line, the next, a surprise bump could throw the car off it. Now, add the bumps, the line, and the type of vehicle, and you got yourself a pretty challenging combination to speed through.

Now, I don't know the course entirely by heart, with every little bump, and every little angle of turn, but I do know enough from experiences to know how the track runs and what can be done to ensure a great time on it. As said earlier, the type of vehicle plays such a huge roll in how hard you can push on the track's racing line. It felt amazingly different to run the course in a Mini Cooper S and go to a Ferrari 308 GTS the next day. Different cars, yes, but also a different experience.

My theory on the course is, the faster your car will take you, the bigger the difference you'll see in fear and excitement. It can be a laughable, exciting moment in the Mini 1 lap. And a terrifying, craptastic, intoxicating, yet utterly unreal, amazing ride the next in a Ferrari, Porsche, or any other car that's built for speed.
 
It's kind of hard to blame it on GT4's physics, and then bring in the disgrace that is the FM2 'Ring.

Was talking to Toyomatt's in which he has a friend in Germany that said FM2's version is closer to GT4. I don't know if I'm opening a can of worms here but it's just what I was told. Either way, regardless of physics if both tracks are close in layout why is it so much easier for me to memorize FM2's than it is GT4's...?
 
DWA
Was talking to Toyomatt's in which he has a friend in Germany that said FM2's version is closer to GT4. I don't know if I'm opening a can of worms here but it's just what I was told. Either way, regardless of physics if both tracks are close in layout why is it so much easier for me to memorize FM2's than it is GT4's...?

Probably because FM2's is so stretched out, that thanks to its long turns, you can easily remember everything.

And what did he mean FM2's is closer to GT4? Closer than what? PGR? Can't be closer to real life than GT4 because that's just talking out the butt, and shows someone hasn't run the 'Ring, or seen any videos of it.
 
It's only hard because you can't ever memorize it...

Besides a few standout turns, the whole course seems unfamiliar no matter how many times you race it.

At least thats how it is for me.

Try running one of the 24 hour races - Worked for me :-)
 
Well, that's as far as I'll argue because I've never been to it and haven't really seen it.

And yes closer than GT4... :rolleyes:
 
The hardest thing for me is trying to temper my speed on it. I've lapped it so many times in GT4 (mostly in the CTR - either stock on N1/2s or fully tuned and sideways on RQs) that I can walk it in my sleep, but when driving it I'll always feel that I can hit any given corner just that little bit faster, and then I get cocky and over-cook it.

I tend to only manage about three laps at a time. One to warm up, a second at 95%, the third at 100%, then I'll go for a flat out fourth lap and make a horrible mistake somewhere and know it's time to take a break.
 
1. Get a friend.
2. Turn off the map display in Options.
3. Start a lap of the 'Ring.
4. Blindfold yourself and put on ear defenders.
5. Tell friend to drive to wherever he fancies apart from Karussel and Dottinger Hohe.
6. Tell friend to stop when he gets there and tap you on the shoulder.
7. Take off the blindfold and instantly say where you think you are on the track.

This is why the 'Ring is so hard. It has a bajillion corners and they all look the same. If you lose concentration for a nanosecond, you've no idea what's coming up next. And on a track only 6 yards wide, that means death.
 
DWA
Well, that's as far as I'll argue because I've never been to it and haven't really seen it.

And yes closer than GT4... :rolleyes:

I have been to it and can quite clearly say that the FM2 version of the 'ring is not in any way closer to the real thing.

In a nutshell the FM2 version is too wide, which massively effects the profile of a lot of the corners (and in some cases allows you to see the exit on corners that are in reality blind), the smoothness of the track in FM2 is a joke compared to the GT4 version (and to reality), this also has a major effect on the camber of the corners (the reason why on GT4 some of the corners seem to pull you towards the grass).

Simply put FM2's version of the 'ring is sanitised and made more 'on-line' friendly.

Keep in mind that Jackie Stewart coined the name 'Green Hell' and every driver of the track goes on about the huge challenge it hands you and then think about yourself saying...

I don't have any problems with it in FM2

...and you may find the problem.

Turn 10 do not have the Nurburgring in FM2 (or FM for that matter), they have a track they have called the Nurburgring but have bastardised to keep some people happy.

Physics are not the issue here, try the 'ring in Enthusia or GPL and tell me its not a problem to master it.


Scaff
 
The Nordschleife has something most other newer tracks dont have because of safety issues: The track does not simply has right andleft-hander, the track goes also up- and downhill pared with turns. 💡
Today the racing circuits are built as flat as possible, just look at the japanese F1 racing circuits. The Nordschleife is 3D instead of 2D and that makes it so hard and fun to drive at it.

And thats also the reason why the newer tracks are so boring. :yuck:

Of course there are some different things too what makes the Ring so enjoyable:
* Great visuals
* Very high average speed
* A lot of high speed corners
* No banking of high speed corners
* Length
 
1. Get a friend.
2. Turn off the map display in Options.
3. Start a lap of the 'Ring.
4. Blindfold yourself and put on ear defenders.
5. Tell friend to drive to wherever he fancies apart from Karussel and Dottinger Hohe.
6. Tell friend to stop when he gets there and tap you on the shoulder.
7. Take off the blindfold and instantly say where you think you are on the track.

This is why the 'Ring is so hard. It has a bajillion corners and they all look the same. If you lose concentration for a nanosecond, you've no idea what's coming up next. And on a track only 6 yards wide, that means death.


Yeah, see, step one screws that up for me. I have to play random lengths of Youtube videos in a background window to do this.

Who needs friends, anyway!??!

OTOH, while watching a Youtube incar video at work with, um, co-workers (not friends), I was describing upcoming turns and hills, brake points, etc., and was told to get a life.

I thought I had one!
 
Right, I can forsee running a 'Ring enduro, but only due to the variation of the track. It does NOT get boring. BTW, do we have a GFaqs convert who's name over there is DRZ_PERSON? Just curious.
 
So let me get this straight... you think the nurb is hard because it has lots of corners... HMM

DUH it would be pretty damn easy if it was a straight line:dunce:

It is because of the length (making it hard to memorize and perfect), because of the narrow road (meaning less room for error), it is because of the bumps and uneven surface (meaning upredictable traction and softer suspension requirements) and finally because just like most real race tracks yes... it has corners.

But it is also the most fun course in the game!

Nurb haters are wussy

I'm sorry, I think I missed the part where I said "I hate the Nurburgring". Point to me exactly where I said that, please.

Its not my favorite track, but I don't hate it.

The track has its easy sections and hard sections. Hard are the continouous set of sharp corners and easy is the ast straightaway.
 
Hmm..I think the Ring is just a course like many others.

Difficult? I don’t think so

Challenging? A bite, but not to much.

So what makes this course so difficult for the majority of people?
I think it is the length of it. Most people think: «Oh my God! It is so length and it has so many curves, I´ll get it through».

But I think there should be one version (in the GT4) of the Ring that adds the Grand Prix Streck part (like in Suzuka)
nordschleife.jpg


How knows in the GT5…
 
For me, the thing that makes the 'ring difficult, apart from all the bloody blind corners and elevation changes, is that in GT4 the "sensation of velocity" is one of the few parameters that the programmers have not gotten quite right.
In GT4, I always "feel" that I am travelling quite a bit slower than I am in actuallity.
It makes it harder to gauge braking points, especially since there are no markers as there are on most other tracks.
 
I hate it and i love it.
Thing is, i manage no more then one really fast lap like Brock.
then i,m so pumped after breaking a record i almost imediately smash it into the first corner.
At the moment that,s sitting at 5:40 with a 903 HP black Mazda 787 B
Running R5 tyres and a stage 4 turbo
made one little error that lap skidding off the track
If that time is any impressive i can try and put up a vid and car tuning stats.
nobody seems proud of their Nordschleife times or did i just miss them ?
Did a 5:43 with a GT ONE but that left the track at the en of the long straight I,ll post other times tomorrow or something
 
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