What PD Has Been Doing For 5 Years.....

[energyracing]

To Damage Doubters: Just from watching the E3 trailer for GT5, the damage is much better than it looks in their beta build demo at GC. So you can rest asssured the damage modeling will be better. Just how much better is yet to be seen.

To Forza Comparers: Forza Motorsport is the best racing series XBOX has to offer. Turn 10 deserves credit for their work with a system that just doesn't have the computing power of the PS3. Even on PS1, PD was the first to use ALL of the console's juice and power to get (at the time) state of the art graphics for Gran Turismo. They have done the same on the next two consoles as well. So Forza is about as good as it's going to get (until the XBOX720)

Gran Turismo (1997)(PS1): 178 cars

Gran Turismo 2 (1999)(PS1): ~650 Cars

Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (2001)(PS2): ~150 Cars (Due to the next gen jump. Notice the car count won't drop for GT5 on the new next gen console.)

GT4 (2004/5)(PS2): 700+ Cars

Forza Motorsport (2005) (XBOX): 231 Cars

Forza Motorsport 2 (2007)(X360): 300+ Cars

Forza Motorsport 3 (2009)(X360) 400+ Cars

GT5 (*cough*2009*cough*)(PS3): 1000 Cars! With no drop in car count because of next gen hardware like GT3 suffered. PD did their homework this time.

As you can see from the list, all three Forza Motorsport games were (or will be) released after Gran Turismo 4. And none of them come close to the car count of GT4 (or GT2 for that matter). Also, it can be argued they are not as graphically "Brilliant" as the 1000 GT5 cars will be (or the 70+ GT5P Cars). Again, not the fault of Turn 10, the XBOX systems they had to build the game for don't have the juice necessary to make the cars look as good as Gran Turismo 5. This is not me being a GT Fanboy or PS3 Fanboy, I am merely stating facts. Forza looks better than 99% of PS3 racing games that don't use the PS3's full potential but GT5 and PD use the full potential of the system and it shows. Also, Forza will only allow 8 cars on track at a time. GT5P had 16, and there is an expected 20 from GT5. Also, with NASCAR being in GT5, it was said that Kaz didn't want to do NASCAR if he couldn't do it right and there are 43 cars in every NASCAR race. So we'll have to wait and see about that. The main argument for most in favor of Forza is the damage. Well, we saw in game damage yesterday and in the E3 trailer months ago. Some may say "It sucks" or "Not good enough" but again, more than likely not final. The trailer's damage was more realistic and Kaz said it was not pre rendered. Also, Forza glitches. I had to bring it up. I've seen two cars collide and one of them lazily float 200 feet in the air for nearly a minute before coming back down to earth. Now sure, Gran Turismo has had it's glitches throughout the series, but by GT4, the only glitches you could pull were to go 30,000mph at the test track (which required codebreaker) and to glitch yourself inside of the nurburgring (which took a while to accomplish). Forza's glitches happen after collisions. Not hard to do. Granted, they were head on but nevertheless collisions in a racing game caused glitches.


looks like I wrote another book. Haha, my bad, I'll stop here

 

[Blitz187]

Just as an example of the driving experience in GT, I have this clip of a new HKS GTR doing a lap of Fuji Speedway like we have it in GT5. Now if I compare the two I feel that PD have pretty much nailed the racing experience even though it has no skid marks, blowing leaves and running water etc... In the HKS clip the action starts at 6:35.... I know theyre not the same cars but couldnt find any good clips with a GTR... and Im trying to compare overall racing feel and experience of the track and surroundings...

 

[Daraman]

We've already all but determined that the 170 "premium cars" mentioned referred to the possibility of 170 cars being damageable or having interior damaged, and the other 830 being undamagable as all cars in GT4 were. ALL cars in GT5 will look graphically awesome as they do in the trailers. They aren't upscaled GT4 models, seeing as how there werent 830 cars in GT4 so they couldn't all be from GT4. Also, we have seen cars in GT5 trailers that were also in GT4 and they look excellent, not GT4 quality.

Oh, and about the people at PD working on it, heres an IGN video about PD and how the work environment is. In that place, 150 people working on this game at a time is more than enough.

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/857126/gran-turismo-5/videos/PolyphonyTour_101807.html

I agree, and very nice post, by the way. There's no way PD would just do 170 models at GT5 quality, and just upscale the others with a few touches.

 

[Kryz11]

Just as an example of the driving experience in GT, I have this clip of a new HKS GTR doing a lap of Fuji Speedway like we have it in GT5. Now if I compare the two I feel that PD have pretty much nailed the racing experience even though it has no skid marks, blowing leaves and running water etc... In the HKS clip the action starts at 6:35.... I know theyre not the same cars but couldnt find any good clips with a GTR... and Im trying to compare overall racing feel and experience of the track and surroundings...

Yeah they did. as well how real that JUJI track is SPOT ON, it makes me don't wanna play another games that have this version of the track.

 

[SUfan21]

To Max_DC and other Forza Fanboys

You are contradicting yourself with the GT5 "lack of realism argument". You keep preaching that Forza is so much more realistic, but then you go on to say that you'd be happy with 8 cars vs. 16 at the expense of seeing trivial minute track animations. Thats a complete contradiction. 8 cars is what makes Forza unrealistic and BORING in my opinion. 8 cars is utterly unrealistic (how many real-life racing series only have 8 car fields???), 16 cars is decent and respectable. I find it to be unbelievable that you would actually be willing to cut the field size in half just to see some water move in a trackside lake. If less cars are your thing then thats fine, but your dead wrong if you think its realistic.

 

[FLASH48]

I don't have clue, what they have been doing for five years! But if they can make the GT-R, sound like that ingame. I don't care what they have been doing!!👍

 

[Max_DC]

I understand what you mean and what you say is true in respect to the environments in a new HD jacket. They have actually upgraded older models instead of laying down brand new ones... I believe they have their reasons for doing this of course, but if the OP is right to any degree and Kaz is doing this deliberately to keep us in the dark and make us talk about the game this way. Then maybe the unannounced demo at GC was also a part of his ploy in respect to information being freed about GT5.... Which means that he is holding off the BIG surprise for the release OR TGS... I mean the leaked spec list and the surprise showing of GT5 cant all be a coincidence if you think about it... Or can it?

I hope you're right, but I don't think so atm.

I can handle it, what i can't handle is the amount of bitching you people dish up to this game company. First you want damage, they give you it, your not satisfied (and again I say if you think its so easy , do it yourself). THEN you start shooting off all these random skyhigh expectations of the game when the features haven't even been said and you suddenly turn those expectations into "MUST HAVE OR GAME FAIL" type thing. How about you all take a step back, wait till the game is released (or at least when it's featurelist and full version comes out) before you rip it to threads.. don't base all ur judgements on demo's.. AND AGAIN FOR BILLIONTH TIME, if you don't like it don't buy it, bitching about it on these forums will solve nothing (what.. do you expect PD will be looking at your critisizm and fix it for you?), take the game as it is or don't take it at all.

"You people ?" Next time you quote me, talk about what I said. I don't represent any people - I simple present my personal opinion here.

I can live without a damage model What I don't like is this compromise. I know that it's hard to simulate crashes in a proper way, even more when every car manufacturerer has different policies regarding the allowed maximum.
Apart from that - having a look at this post I again think you don't really understand what forums are about. I can live with that. By the way - my expectations are not skyhigh. From a technical point of view they are easy to realize. Also - relax

From what I gather from that. You would rather PD got rid of fairly accurate physics and photo realistic graphics for you to get some wind and animations in the background and cars that blow up to smitherines?

PD makes a game that features car models that are photo realistic and drive as accurate as possible on a console. Infact the game looks to try and make itself unnaturally picture perfect. If you want skid marks, destruction derby's and a bunch of animations then GT was never really the game for you and I understand your dissapointment.

I think that you may not realise what PD is trying to make. Maybe it is all lost in translation. But the way I view the game is that it is driving cars that look like they really exists in some kind of perfect world bound to physics as we know it.

Anyhow that's just how I understand the GT franchise.

No need to sacrifice realistic physics. If at all we would lose a few cars of the grid. That's it. It could even be optional. ( for example : GT mode with 10 cars and all the effects I described or as it is with 16 cars; I knew what I'd chose )

I even agree with you - I want it realistic. But my problem is that while I'm driving I often have the feeling : sth is not right here, the cars look great, but the sourrounding is liveless and sterile.
Trust me - if you don't understand what I mean now, wait until next generation consoles. Cars are perfect enough, time to take the rest of the game to the 21st century.

To Max_DC and other Forza Fanboys

You are contradicting yourself with the GT5 "lack of realism argument". You keep preaching that Forza is so much more realistic, but then you go on to say that you'd be happy with 8 cars vs. 16 at the expense of seeing trivial minute track animations. Thats a complete contradiction. 8 cars is what makes Forza unrealistic and BORING in my opinion. 8 cars is utterly unrealistic (how many real-life racing series only have 8 car fields???), 16 cars is decent and respectable. I find it to be unbelievable that you would actually be willing to cut the field size in half just to see some water move in a trackside lake. If less cars are your thing then thats fine, but your dead wrong if you think its realistic.

I play all kind of games on almost all systems available and I have been doing this for over a decade now. I own racing games you've never heard of. As everybody else I'm influenced by what I like and have played, but I'm far away from being a fanboy of anything.

Oh, and next time you find an existing real life racing event featuring 16 stock ( undestroyable ) cars ( mix out of FR FF and AWD, tuned and not tuned ) without FIA approved racing cages, racing seats driving in Trial Mountain, call me ! Bu only if earth stops moving that day, and all animals have to be killed, also don't forget to fix every tree - I don't want to see one moving leaf. seems like you didn't unterstand what - imo - a realistic racing experience is. It's not just the cars, it's everything.

 

[Blitz187]

I don't have clue, what they have been doing for five years! But if they can make the GT-R, sound like that ingame. I don't care what they have been doing!!👍

Hopefully some DLC thats the new HKS GT570 kit for the GTR the race exhaust is sick... lots of clips on youtube of GTRs sporting that exhaust....

I hope you're right, but I don't think so atm.

Finger crossed... and there's always hope

 

[IsmokeGT]

A thread that has a 1st post that is inticing to read? That hasnt happened in... forever. Glad to see someone has taken some college level English, or composition, classes. 👍

On topic- he is right! I do get sick of all the speculation, but at least it is speculation about GT5 and not about our next event update, or a spec IV update. In conclusion I speculate GT5 wll kick arse, and I will not be riding the "whaaaambulace" for the GT series is better than all alternatives.

 

[SUfan21]

Max_DC,

I think your being way over-critical about off-track animations. The stuff you seem to want is silly background stuff that doesn't really contribute anything to the racing experience. Why would PD waste game space for moving water and woodland animals when that space could be used to squeeze a few more cars on-track? Also last time I checked GT5P DOES have 3D spectators, and if I remember correctly I'm fairly certain they move around as well.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Travis Pastrana did hit a deer while doing a rally circuit.

I wont be happy unless I hit deer!

 

[GTracerRens]

Polyphony Digital has already done a great job. We must not look at the points that are missing, but at the good points that are ingame which aren't in other games.

 

[Slurm]

They've been modeling everyone in Tokyo so it's real when your car is parked there.

 

[energyracing]

A thread that has a 1st post that is inticing to read? That hasnt happened in... forever. Glad to see someone has taken some college level English, or composition, classes. 👍

On topic- he is right! I do get sick of all the speculation, but at least it is speculation about GT5 and not about our next event update, or a spec IV update. In conclusion I speculate GT5 wll kick arse, and I will not be riding the "whaaaambulace" for the GT series is better than all alternatives.

Haha thanks for the compliment Ismoke, I start my Freshman year of college next Wednesday though. You're off by a week lol.

 

[RACECAR]

Polyphony Digital has already done a great job. We must not look at the points that are missing, but at the good points that are ingame which aren't in other games.

Well said:tup: That what has made me happy so far from what we've seen.

 

[Northstar]

I heard that they diverted all the funds that Sony gave them to finding buried treasure. So far all they have found was some old gold cup.

Really though they haven't told anyone what they were doing that is for sure.

 

[Blues]

Alright, I thought like this was an optimistic post for the slightly younger generation of racing fans.

I am not worried about when GT5 comes out, although all this recent speculation has gotten too me as well and now I am anticipating it as well, I believe it will be released in December, when just 3 weeks ago I would have laughed off any speculation. I hope it comes out sooner rather than later, thats all anybody can say.

Damage: Not bothered by what it looks like. Frankly I am not worried about what PD does with damage. If it was my decision and I could make all the automakers forget about their marketing and crying over what might happen to their cars in one of the best simulators around... then I would make it completely realistic. What you may consider grazing a wall or guard rail at 70... 80... 100 might not seem like a big deal, but it really would take a massive toll on the car. There is no way they can portray that and keep everybody happy.

I've been around since GT1 on the good ole playstation, and the goal has always been to NOT hit things, pass clean, apex clean. That's racing. They will do what is right to satisfy all those guys who are in the gray area. Those of us that enjoy simulated racing, I think we're going to be indifferent for the most part. Although I would like a rally car to be able to roll over if you slide off the back of a corner, or take a bad hop.

Hope it comes out soon, hope everybody hangs in there!

 

[Lambo88]

I don't know what they've been doing for 5 years but I was expecting damage to ALL cars, not 10 or 15 %. I mean, you either have damage to all cars or none at all!

And like some said, you'll never have the green light from all manufacturers to implement total hardore damaging anyway, so those laughing at Forza's damage system should realize it's about the best you can expect to have because of the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Blitz187]

Alright, I thought like this was an optimistic post for the slightly younger generation of racing fans.

I am not worried about when GT5 comes out, although all this recent speculation has gotten too me as well and now I am anticipating it as well, I believe it will be released in December, when just 3 weeks ago I would have laughed off any speculation. I hope it comes out sooner rather than later, thats all anybody can say.

Damage: Not bothered by what it looks like. Frankly I am not worried about what PD does with damage. If it was my decision and I could make all the automakers forget about their marketing and crying over what might happen to their cars in one of the best simulators around... then I would make it completely realistic. What you may consider grazing a wall or guard rail at 70... 80... 100 might not seem like a big deal, but it really would take a massive toll on the car. There is no way they can portray that and keep everybody happy.

I've been around since GT1 on the good ole playstation, and the goal has always been to NOT hit things, pass clean, apex clean. That's racing. They will do what is right to satisfy all those guys who are in the gray area. Those of us that enjoy simulated racing, I think we're going to be indifferent for the most part. Although I would like a rally car to be able to roll over if you slide off the back of a corner, or take a bad hop.

Hope it comes out soon, hope everybody hangs in there!

Very down to earth post with a lot of common sense in it... 👍 Great post!

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

GT5p is like racing in Stephen King's Langoliers * - it's a dead world without moving water, without wind, without life. Next gen, for me that's simulating the whole deal, not just perfection in a few aspects.

[/B]

GT5P has full 3d moving spectators. even some walking around in London. Daytona speedway does this amazingly.

It also has moving grass, that can be blown even harder when a car flys by.

That's pretty detailed to me.

 

[AutoAki]

Good to see most of you are happy how things now are looking.

I am not.

To me all these trailers looks we are having only polished same GT4 with some tweaks to physics-engine, and few nonsense-details into the same tracks we had in GT4.

Good things I have found from things we know:

-Online

-Physics

-Couple new Tracks and Cars

-Moving parts on track and car-parts flyin off.



Disappointments I'm afraid we will have:

-Online

-Physics

-G25's FFB still not fully

-Penalty system... all kind of short-cutting and ramming will continue

-Damage-modellings realism

-Qualifys missing?

-Does Licences have any deeper meaning.

-Any sort of Rating by Racers success in Online, and give own races for every level?

-Pit-Stops?

-Livery-Editor missing

...there's just few what came in my mind immediately.


I have been in love to GT's since GT1, but I aint sold my soul into PD. IMO, over five years, and having over hundred workers, best equipments, and almost unlimited resources, they really should have done everything better.

...oh, sorry... they have done quite impressive looking graphics I admit, but in my priority-list that is not in top 5, so I cant get excited about that so much.

I'm Racing-addict... not Driving-addict.

Glad that in these days we have other options too. Not many years ago things were like that.


Rest in Peace Polyphony Digital.

 

[Blitz187]

Good to see most of you are happy how things now are looking.

I am not.

To me all these trailers looks we are having only polished same GT4 with some tweaks to physics-engine, and few nonsense-details into the same tracks we had in GT4.

Good things I have found from things we know:

-Online

-Physics

-Couple new Tracks and Cars

-Moving parts on track and car-parts flyin off.



Disappointments I'm afraid we will have:

-Online

-Physics

-G25's FFB still not fully

-Penalty system... all kind of short-cutting and ramming will continue

-Damage-modellings realism

-Qualifys missing?

-Does Licences have any deeper meaning.

-Any sort of Rating by Racers success in Online, and give own races for every level?

-Pit-Stops?

-Livery-Editor missing

...there's just few what came in my mind immediately.


I have been in love to GT's since GT1, but I aint sold my soul into PD. IMO, over five years, and having over hundred workers, best equipments, and almost unlimited resources, they really should have done everything better.

...oh, sorry... they have done quite impressive looking graphics I admit, but in my priority-list that is not in top 5, so I cant get excited about that so much.

I'm Racing-addict... not Driving-addict.

Glad that in these days we have other options too. Not many years ago things were like that.


Rest in Peace Polyphony Digital.

Kind of harsh dont you think Aki? I mean we have not seen the REAL DEAL yet... and the new online functions that will be installed will bring it up greatly... Have you seen the leaked spec list of GT5?? Head tracking is one feature I hope turns out good... I know PC sims have had this for a while... but its great to see it in GT now... I think we all should wait for the final build before we consider PD to be pushing up daisies

 

[AutoAki]

Kind of harsh dont you think Aki? I mean we have not seen the REAL DEAL yet... and the new online functions that will be installed will bring it up greatly... Have you seen the leaked spec list of GT5?? Head tracking is one feature I hope turns out good... I know PC sims have had this for a while... but its great to see it in GT now... I think we all should wait for the final build before we consider PD to be pushing up daisies

Could be yes... but there is only thin line between love and hate, so PD has still some chances to get me back. With these trailers and few new features they are not doing it.

I might be unrealistic with my expects, but I have seen so much more realistic sims done by very small companies, so that makes me think that PD has lost their sense to only graphics-section and too huge amount of cars (what we in the end dont use more than few times), when they should consentrate to all those small nyances what makes racing in Online so big thrill.

I do like good looking graphics, but there should be also some sort of HardCore-Level for us who really are deep in racing, and wanted to get so realistic experiement than possible.

 

[Blitz187]

Could be yes... but there is only thin line between love and hate, so PD has still some chances to get me back. With these trailers and few new features they are not doing it.

I might be unrealistic with my expects, but I have seen so much more realistic sims done by very small companies, so that makes me think that PD has lost their sense to only graphics-section and too huge amount of cars (what we in the end dont use more than few times), when they should consentrate to all those small nyances what makes racing in Online so big thrill.

I do like good looking graphics, but there should be also some sort of HardCore-Level for us who really are deep in racing, and wanted to get so realistic experiement than possible.

I understand fully where you are coming from. You are not the only one disappointed about what you have seen... there are many others as well.. I was even a bit disappointed with the first videos I saw... But when I sat down and thought about it in a rational manner, which some people have a hard time doing, I figured this is just a demo that they might have completed a LONG time ago, I mean its only 1 car and 1 track... Just to give us a glimpse of the damage theyre working on... I said it before and I'll say it again... the sequence of events, with the leaked spec list and unannounced demo of GT5 on the floor at GamesCom, all seem a bit weird and cannot be a simple coincidence... there is something deeper going on here I just cant put my finger on it though... must be a very intricate marketing scheme Sony and PD have thought up...

 

[AutoAki]

... must be a very intricate marketing scheme Sony and PD have thought up...

One thing which is sure, is their very wrong way to do PR and Marketing... that's what we have seen many ways in past years.

I have no idea why they ain't giving more details about final product, if there still is something 'mind blowing' to come. That's why I'm mostly sceptic that we would see any big suprises... it's their best way to keep all us fanatics to continue waiting and finally buy the product when it comes.

If they would have something amazing coming, they would tell it with big words, so that all who are near by going to buy Forza3 and XBox, or PC and GTR2 wouldn't do it.

 

[Slurm]

If they would have something amazing coming, they would tell it with big words, so that all who are near by going to buy Forza3 and XBox, or PC and GTR2 wouldn't do it.

Actually, big features have been kept secret, and even denied in the past. IIRC Kaz went as far as to deny the nurburgring shortly before it was revealed.

PD very much like to let their products do all the talking.

I'm glad we've been shown something, and I have a strong feeling that there's at least one big feature to be revealed.

 

[Blitz187]

One thing which is sure, is their very wrong way to do PR and Marketing... that's what we have seen many ways in past years.

I have no idea why they ain't giving more details about final product, if there still is something 'mind blowing' to come. That's why I'm mostly sceptic that we would see any big suprises... it's their best way to keep all us fanatics to continue waiting and finally buy the product when it comes.

If they would have something amazing coming, they would tell it with big words, so that all who are near by going to buy Forza3 and XBox, or PC and GTR2 wouldn't do it.

Very true as well.. In this day and age you would expect that they would handle PR and such differently.... In that respect PD has remained very old-fashioned and has not moved forward with the rest of the world. I really dont know what to think of the whole situation, its all kind of confusing to me... But I guess the best thing to do would be to wait for TGS...

 

[Preacher85]

I have'nt actually saw those videos before

Anyways, do we know or have PD said anything about the pit crews? I love the idea of them being there, abit more immersive

 

[Angerdx]

Kaz loves to surprise us and make our jaws drop when we get the full game, i just want a release date and some extra info at TGS while still leaving enough surprises to make the game feel exciting and fresh come release, some of the enjoyment is discovering alot of the neat things they usually put in there, where is all the misstrust coming from?

They have always delivered the best possible game they can within the technological constraints of the time, so for me in PD i trust, they might not meat all our expectations as we can be quite unrealistic in our desires, we don´t usually care about what actually really can and can´t be done at this time as we just want more and more.

Got a feeling these 5 years have been wellspent PD doesn´t mess around when it comes to GT.

 

[AutoAki]

Kaz loves to surprise us and make our jaws drop when we get the full game, i just want a release date and some extra info at TGS while still leaving enough surprises to make the game feel exciting and fresh come release, some of the enjoyment is discovering alot of the neat things they usually put in there, where is all the misstrust coming from?

They have always delivered the best possible game they can within the technological constraints of the time, so for me in PD i trust, they might not meat all our expectations as we can be quite unrealistic in our desires, we don´t usually care about what actually really can and can´t be done at this time as we just want more and more.

Got a feeling these 5 years have been wellspent PD doesn´t mess around when it comes to GT.

Dont get mad, but I started to smile when reading your wishful and glorifying post how PD always surprise us with best product etc etc...

heh... have you ever heard about GT4, which many years ago was very waited too, and people were crawling to get that and it's promised Damage-feature, Online-feature, Cockpit-view and almost everything same what we are now waiting too.

It was not so great Game for many of us who likes racing and social-part of it, and after that release, I will never give to PD any respect of being trustful game developer.


Pessimist will never disappoint, so keep your foots down dear soulmates!