What tuning parts and/or physics would make gran turismo to you the real driving sim?

[parksideu14]

[QUOTE="On a side note it is pretty cool doing engine swaps in forza. Dropping wicked motors into cars that haver no business having them is pretty cool and widely opens up tuning possibilities.






Make more car premium and engine swaps for them.
Imagine a old mini with a integra type r engine in the back

 

[XDesperado67]

If I'm going to bicker... and really what is this thread for? I'd have to say that I want motor swaps more than anything. I've never played Forza (coz no 360) so I dunno, but it would be nice if it was sort of opened up. I mean... obviously there isn't really a way to put a dodge viper engine (or any other HUGE engine) into a fiat 500, but at least be able to drop something in.

Don't know about a Fiat 500, but saw a couple of early 70s VW Beatles with Chevy 350s in them...one was even a FR layout...where there is a will, there's a way

 

[zodicus]

there is a video on youtube (i'll post a link if i can find it) of a guy who put a train supercharger in a 90ish firebird. The supercharger was the size of a big block easily. He said in the vid that it ran one time, in neutral he touched the gas and it lifted the front tire about a inc off the ground and blew out both head gaskets lol. So yeah if theres a will theres a way, and it probably already been done

found it, i was wrong it was a gen one camero http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0qeYd5gcnQ

 

[VINCE__]

My pet peeve is bumper cam and hood cams . These views are cheats and don't belong in a simulator. It's funny when people use these view points and then say they are driving. Cockpit view is the only option that needs to be in a sim.

Are you serious? This is most certainly being as facetious as one could be in a forum. Not being able to see your face or hear your tone of voice, I was thinking.

 

[Perfect Balance]

• For example, by installing high lift and overlap cams, the engine should run poorly at low rpm, with significant loss of torque in the low-end range. Same for big bore exhaust kits.
  
  

• Didn't really read much of the rest of the thread, but this does happen. My Civic Type R barely idles.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To clarify for you all I do mean more parts first off, but I also think that a more realistic twist on the parts you buy is nice as well. Like several have already said there should be a more realistic take on how tires are wore down through a race, and I think with better parts selection then you will have a physics engine that will have to go hand and hand with how sophisticated the parts are. If I buy a racing suspension my car shouldn't be more erratic than a sports suspension but should out of the box handle better and be somewhat set up in the right direction. This is just an example not talking about GT5, but also with engine pieces if I want a true race car there are certain engine parts or a brand new engine to make it a racer and not a strictly road car trying to be a racer. I see that many parts options can help a player decide if they want to have a street car that is fast or better yet a full blown race car. And if having more parts isn’t the best way to do this, than a few more parts and far more race mods for many cars would be the best way to go.

 

[Tornado]

I still think it is kind of odd that when you tune a car in GT5, the results are almost always a more powerful car than the equivalent tuner in the game.

 

[CMvan46]

If I'm going to bicker... and really what is this thread for? I'd have to say that I want motor swaps more than anything. I've never played Forza (coz no 360) so I dunno, but it would be nice if it was sort of opened up. I mean... obviously there isn't really a way to put a dodge viper engine (or any other HUGE engine) into a fiat 500, but at least be able to drop something in.

Only motors from same company in Forza (I traded in my xbox for a ps3 in march). Like a zr1 motor in a camaro I believe I had.

 

[EivlEvo]

Only motors from same company in Forza (I traded in my xbox for a ps3 in march). Like a zr1 motor in a camaro I believe I had.

Yeah... forget that. If you're going to enable a swap... just enable swaps. No one cares about proprietary nonsense. That said... they'd probably need to make the motors generic... example:

Instead of a Dodge 8.0L V10, they'd just need to have an 8.0L V10. You know...

 

[CMvan46]

Yeah... forget that. If you're going to enable a swap... just enable swaps. No one cares about proprietary nonsense. That said... they'd probably need to make the motors generic... example:

Instead of a Dodge 8.0L V10, they'd just need to have an 8.0L V10. You know...

True but I believe they run into licensing issues at that point. It is still a very cool addition and what your saying was complained about a lot on the forza forums.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Just thought about it today but what if PD were able to for the next game I suppose get tuner shops (real ones obviously) on board with the game sort of like in GT4. However, instead you take your car to them say a Merc to Brabus, or a Supra to HKS or Tom's and they set you up as if they would with there more regular tunes. And you get a more real world experience if you will. Or instead also in the game to give more option you opt out and take a car over and have it race modified. Say the Australian 2012 Ford Falcon can be bought and you take it over to get Race Modified and you get a Supercar V8 racer. Yet, it has a real worldly feel to it due to the fact that a few guys from the race series helped fine tune what it really drives like. The only issue I see is money, but I think this way the fans and real driving/racing enthusiast get what they want and more racing series and tune shops get notoriety and maybe a large fan following. Yet I think with all the money PD makes with these games they could spare a bit for this type of endeavor to improve the game for the better and make more money with the next game. Or they could hire test drivers who once raced to help them and become part of the team. The way I see it though is they either get outside help from fan and real racers to improve the game, or they get a bigger staff so Kaz doesn’t come out again saying…”We rushed building the game and it would have been better if we had more time”

 

[zodicus]

Did any of you play the armoured core series? I did and i loved the endless tweeking you could do to youre mech. It wouldnt bother me at all if GT was like that, yah know a gazillion parts. Like insted of just buying a "intake manifold" you could choose a dual plane, singal plane, individuall runner, high rise, then with exhaust youd have shorttys, long tubes, stepped race headders, equal or un equal length. have several cam selections, the abbility to tweek vtech (or other manufactors equivilant) intercoller upgrades, top or front mount for the subies. TIRE WIDTH! different heads with different power curves, ect ect ect. id be all about it

 

[shirakawaa]

Did any of you play the armoured core series? I did and i loved the endless tweeking you could do to youre mech. It wouldnt bother me at all if GT was like that, yah know a gazillion parts. Like insted of just buying a "intake manifold" you could choose a dual plane, singal plane, individuall runner, high rise, then with exhaust youd have shorttys, long tubes, stepped race headders, equal or un equal length. have several cam selections, the abbility to tweek vtech (or other manufactors equivilant) intercoller upgrades, top or front mount for the subies. TIRE WIDTH! different heads with different power curves, ect ect ect. id be all about it

I agree, but they would have to affect torque and power curves shapes and other engine characteristics in different ways (even negative), not only act as small multipliers or eventually shifting (like the ECU and exhaust parts in GT5) slightly the entire curves to the right. As I said in the previous page, a hard tuned engine should not be very drivable. Users should be given the opportunity to customize to some extent the engine drivability and power/torque delivery.

Adding engine/tuning parts "just because", only for "mindless shopping", serves no purpose other than making upgrade increments smaller and the purchasing process slower. This is the "false sense of detail" I mentioned in another thread, and that in my opinion GT5 already unnecessarily features.

 

[zodicus]

no i agree it would only make sense if the parts made a meanningful differance to how the engine preformed, not just a % increse. bigger cams, bigger runner intakes and heads should move the torque curve to the right and make it more peaky, smaller cams, longer or smaller runner intakes and heads should move it to the left and flatten out the curve.

 

[Smart_Roadster]

I would like to see track deformation (does that count as physics or graphics?), for example, mud ruts would appear in the grass where cars went off track, armco barriers would buckle, etc, etc

 

[sesselpupser]

I think some people need to bear in mind that PD are in a tricky position. They want to make a pure simulator, but being one of Sony's longest running franchises with huge sales means they also need to compromise and make the game playable. They could easily turn the damage up to 11 and make it so that if you hit a wall at 10mph your radiator cracks and you have to retire from the 24 hour race you've been running for 19 hours, but who on earth would actually prefer that to toned down damage? It's just madness.

They want to make the best simulator possible, but they also have to cater for non-hardcore sim nuts (and as much as I love cars and racing, I don't think I'd enjoy GT5 if it was a lot more realistic than it is). Of course, they could introduce realism settings, but to be honest I think they would have done if they'd had the two years extra they wanted for development.

Personally, I think I've taken to looking at GT5 as a beta for GT6. If GT6 hasn't introduced tyre pressure tuning, inner, middle and outer tyre temperature measurements and other things that are kind of essential for even setting up a car (until they have those, camber settings are pure guesswork), or hasn't got a sizeable number of cars from 2005-2011, then they're pretty much sleeping on the job. However, I'm confident that they will have made some major steps forward from GT5, simply because they've already demonstrated the modularity of the design by adding quite a lot to the game. It could be argued that they were features that weren't finished yet so the half-baked code was left in the game, but Kazunori did say that GT5 was designed to be like an operating system and that it's designed to run on far more powerful hardware than the PS3. Therefore, it's not hard to imagine that they could easily tweak various aspects of the physics engine, and if they've designed it to run on more powerful hardware then less of the development time for GT6 will be spent on the framework and more will be spent on building on it.


To answer the question, though, things like changing track conditions, brake fade, better damage (for example, an F1 car being able to lose its wing then need a pit stop to replace it and regain the huge aero loss), punctures, flatspotting... Maybe even tyre wear in A-spec races, small things like that. I think the whole lack of tyre wear in A-spec is a concession to new gamers and less serious sim players, because enduros have wear, and a casual gamer isn't going to want to do the enduros.

That's the thing, though, PD have to compromise, and I'm worried GT6 will be too compromised to be realistic.

 

[CoolNameHere]

But you know everyone is gonna bi*** about gt6 when hit comes out and that gt5 was way better and that gt6 was a huge let down like what is happening now between gt5 and bt4

 

[Willfred_1]

Being able to adjust bars or psi of boost adjusting and the tires pressures.
When removing the weight from the car it visually strips the inside of the car and remove the rm packages and in the tuning shop give you a choice of roll cages.
More aero packages would Be nice .
Modding the brakes would Be good.
A basic vinyl package would be good where it uses a jpeg template and imposes the design on the car.
These should be slowly introduced over the next couple of games in the series

 

[decho]

One of my biggest issues with GT has as of lately been tuning parts. I've seen a few threads wanting to make iconic cars but cant because tuning issue restrict them from doing so. I think the main issue with gran turismo after the cars that we want and expect to see and the tracks that we also want and expect to see is the limited tuning options we have from game to game. However, lets think about it with the right price and the aftermarket parts available we can take a 2jz in the real world to a 1200hp + beast. Yet I only have enough parts to get slightly over 700hp that means that I'm neglected 500 hp + for this car that make it such a more amazing beast to drive (that's not to count the fact is should have been a premium car). The feeling is that a real world type feeling is lost when going to the tuning shop with your newly aquired car, and that certain parts should be allowed to get the desired power out of them. Now people will then begin to ask "what can gt add to the tuning area?" and it's simple they can bring in several pieces, including the nitrous option that they had for GT4 that for some reason was taken away in GT5 I'm sure we'd all love to put a X1 on nitrous. There are so many more options though like different types of superchargers, injectors, intercoolers, wastegates, twin and single turbo options, boost controllers, fuel systems, better ECU systems, bringing back brakes, once again the nitrous option, better pistons and rods, individual throttle bodies and the list goes on. At the end of the day it would be nice to produce a highly powerful 1972 Skyline, or a 69 Camaro SS that sounds like pure muscle. However, the car parts are not the only issue but you have the game physics that at times doesn't really fit but is a better improvement to Forza (not to bash it just my opinion when I play both games) but it still lacks in some areas a Formula 1 car shouldn't need me spending so much time tunning it when it should drive like a dream out of the box. I still think that GT has much room to grow in the realm of physics as far as the cars go. Many people will keep proclaiming rfactor and iracing along with other popular PC racing sims as the best (physics wise they seem to be better) but they lack the visual feel of the real world GT brings and I think with more work the real world physics can be achieved. I stick to GT cause it's probably the only racing game that has kept my car dreams alive as a kid and still does to this day but I think these key elements can make it even better. However I want the opinon of all of you too...

Stock cars use comfort soft, race cars use sport soft.. it cant get any closer and in some point simulate fear which btw in sim game is obviously imposible..

Dont forget the damage on and you will have a true sim, about phuisics from my driving experiance IRL this choice is closer you can get, hope i helped you.. for the record my task now is enzo on comfort soft atacking real nurb record and my times are very close, in fact im faster a few seconds but im to modest to confes..ok, i already did..

 

[parksideu14]

Did any of you play the armoured core series? I did and i loved the endless tweeking you could do to youre mech. It wouldnt bother me at all if GT was like that, yah know a gazillion parts. Like insted of just buying a "intake manifold" you could choose a dual plane, singal plane, individuall runner, high rise, then with exhaust youd have shorttys, long tubes, stepped race headders, equal or un equal length. have several cam selections, the abbility to tweek vtech (or other manufactors equivilant) intercoller upgrades, top or front mount for the subies. TIRE WIDTH! different heads with different power curves, ect ect ect. id be all about it

It's all good all this stuff
But what about people why don't know much about car tuning.

 

[zodicus]

all they would have to do is provide a before and after dyno graph before you buy the part. this will probably lead to the inexperianced going only for peak numbers, but that wont really hurt them. You just need to keep the gear ratios close. If they dont even want to bother to figure out how to set the tranny then the high peak numbers will probably make them more than happy.

 

[XDesperado67]

It's all good all this stuff
But what about people why don't know much about car tuning.

That's why you make tuning something that is dealt with as a user definable option. Same with damage, so those who want a more "realistic" level of damage can get it without hindering the enjoyment of less hard core sim racers.

 

[shirakawaa]

all they would have to do is provide a before and after dyno graph before you buy the part. this will probably lead to the inexperianced going only for peak numbers, but that wont really hurt them. You just need to keep the gear ratios close. If they dont even want to bother to figure out how to set the tranny then the high peak numbers will probably make them more than happy.

What's ironic is that GT1 and GT2 had this information (these two games also had the most useful/readable torque and power charts in the series). Also especially with advanced NA or Turbo kits the engine powerband became really peaky (although the lag and loss of low-end torque at low rpm was exaggerated with Stage 4 turbos), not only globally translated to higher rpm and multiplied by a small factor. Other performance parts also caused engines to lose some torque at low rpm as shown by comparative power/torque charts. Tuning was not necessarily positive.

Since GT3 PD nullified the downsides of tuning in most cases.

 

[Jose']

Physics are great, better than in any other console game, but as everything, they can be improved.

Regarding to the tuning I think a more "serious" telemetry is required, as well as more technical parts.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

But you know everyone is gonna bi*** about gt6 when hit comes out and that gt5 was way better and that gt6 was a huge let down like what is happening now between gt5 and bt4

How so I have not had any issue with any of the past GT games thus far. Cause I knew with each game to come there would be more cars, more tracks, more parts, and yes better physics and graphics. The thing is the graphics did increase a bit more for GT4 to GT5 but the standard cars at times look like PS2 graphics and don't have the same quality as Premium cars. The physics also seem to suffer at times and I feel there is a bit of car bias when working on certain cars compared to others. Also more people played Gt1-4 longer than they have with GT5. Most people in GT5 were done or close to done with a spec and bspec back in Feb. and March. Most other GT games have not had that issue. And as you said we're bi***ing uh no we just want to play the game we'd expect to see at the this point from PD. They did a great job giving us weather changes and other features never before seen, but F1 2010 did a better job with weather control. And only a handful of tracks have the features that we expected in full. The things is you're wrong we only complain about GT5 cause they should be able at this point to make a great game with the six year time frame they had. The thing is PD can only improve greatly with GT6 and I think all of us will be happy when it comes out and it will feel exciting like GT4 was.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's all good all this stuff
But what about people why don't know much about car tuning.

They learn...trust me most people don't know what camber is but once they read the description they understand a bit more and it tends to answer their questions about why a car does what. GT has been a learning process for many people that aren't racing fanatics or car enthusiast like us.

 

[Willfred_1]

Just think as gt5 as a unofficial beta for gt6 so we might see a more in-depth tuning setup. Please remember that this game caters for a wide variety of players from us enthusiasts who now about tuning to those who don't know a thing but unlike the other games the help function on the car settings explain really well. Apart from the LSD settings.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Physics are great, better than in any other console game, but as everything, they can be improved.

If you leave out the magical hand that keeps your car from flipping online or when you go full-throttle over a crest offline, the poorly detailed tyre and suspension model and the crappy pinball machine style contact physics, then yeah. There are at least two console games I know of that do a much better job and have a lot more detailed physics model. So the statement is debatable at least.

Just think as gt5 as a unofficial beta for gt6 so we might see a more in-depth tuning setup.

LOL. If a game has serious flaws, just consider it a beta. Keep hoping for something that may never arrive.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If you leave out the magical hand that keeps your car from flipping online or when you go full-throttle over a crest offline, the poorly detailed tyre and suspension model and the crappy pinball machine style contact physics, then yeah. There are at least two console games I know of that do a much better job and have a lot more detailed physics model. So the statement is debatable at least.

Not to ask to be a smart a** but what are the two games? Cause I'm curious if I've played them.

 

[Tornado]

What's ironic is that GT1 and GT2 had this information (these two games also had the most useful/readable torque and power charts in the series). Also especially with advanced NA or Turbo kits the engine powerband became really peaky (although the lag and loss of low-end torque at low rpm was exaggerated with Stage 4 turbos)

As I recall, Stage 3 NA tuning tended to shift the power band by several thousand RPM for most cars in GT2.