What view are you using ?

[Kneedragger]

Fixed. Isn't faster for everyone.

This reminds me of the automatic vs manual laptimes debate. Its the difference between what a single person calls fast compared to what the ultimate fast times are. Manual shifting IS faster in the ultimate sense-- though some (slower) guys might be faster using automatic (themselves.) Similarly I believe bumper IS faster in the ultimate sense-- though some (slower) guys might be faster using another view (themselves.) Or at the very least, bumper is used in the *large majority* of ultimate fast lap times.

I'll survey some of the top leaderboard guys for you, but it'll cost you $5 if you're wrong. :-)

 

[The Outlaw]

The automatic vs manual argument can't justifiably be used in comparison...you're comparing apples and oranges in this case.

The manual is theoretically faster because you can use compression braking, precise shifting to take advantage of the powerband, among other things to improve lap times. Just because you use one view versus another doesn't mean the car is POTENTIALLY going to put in a faster lap. It might be easier, but this doesn't mean if both racers were to drive a THEORETICAL PERFECT LAP, that one view would be faster than another. That's just ludicrous, and basically implying that the car handles better, accelerates, or brakes better in one view versus another. It might be easier to achieve a perfect lap in one view...but that's not the argument.

 

[Kneedragger]

If a driving view offers something superior, (whatever it may be exactly that makes the fastest drivers use bumper), then its 'faster'. When this is backed up by the majority of fastest laptimes, re the leaderboards, then its 'faster'. Its YOU who is putting words in my mouth. I said 'this reminds me'... and I said 'similarly,' as in 'this reminds me'. And it still does. I wasnt making a literal or lengthly comparison of saying bumper offers the exact benefits of driving manual. That would be ludicrous. And so are you for ignoring the point. Bumper cam is faster (in practice-- I dont give a damn about your theory.) And if that REMINDS ME of somethihg else then what business is that of yours??

But you take a lawyer's approach. Look, when you play back the worlds fastest leaderboard lap (which is driven using bumper probably 95% or more of the time) you have the option of watching it using the cockpit view or a chase view. We all know that. The game doesnt fecking REJECT that possibility because it would be harder to actually drive a #1 leaderboard lap that way. We already know that. I find your argument basically very weird. In fact it reminds me
of the automatic vs manual debate.


p.s. earlier today i posted a #2 leaderboard time (london / one of the subaru's.) i could have theoretically done it using my hands on the pedals and my feet on the wheel. and the chase view. BFD

 

[The Outlaw]

"It is YOU that is putting words in my mouth" paleeassee, what the hell are you talking about? The bottom line is that your analogy (manual vs auto) didn't have a DIRECT comparison to the driving views, and that's all I was pointing out. All you're doing at this point is twisting the argument to your own liking out of defensiveness.

It was you that said that a manual is ULTIMATELY going to be faster than an automatic, although some people (not the fastest) may be faster with an automatic. For what EXACT reason is the bumper cam ULTIMATELY going to be faster than say the roof cam? Please explain??? There is none as far as I'm concerned! It's all a matter of preference and what comes most natural. This doesn't prove that one view is faster than another. All you're doing is going by leader board times and coming up with some outlandish hypothesis that the bumper cam is the fastest...it may be easier, but this doesn't match your analogy.

"p.s. earlier today i posted a #2 leader board time (london / one of the subaru's.) i could have theoretically done it using my hands on the pedals and my feet on the wheel. and the chase view. BFD "


Well why didn't you then? Because YOU aren't good enough to do so.... So who are you to speak? Btw, wouldn't that contradict your original "manual vs. auto" analogy 💡

 

[Kneedragger]

For what EXACT reason is the bumper cam ULTIMATELY going to be faster than say the roof cam? Please explain???

Your position is based only in theory.
I used the word 'ultimate' to describe the fastest-of-the-fast laptimes. Just because some dude says he is faster using the chase cam than the bumper cam doesnt mean squat. I am only describing what the fastest guys use.

Bumper isnt ultimately GOING to be faster. IT IS RIGHT NOW. I know exactly where you are coming from. I do. I understand you 1000%. But your position is not based on practical experience or observed facts-- not of your own (how many Top 3 times have you posted?)
nor of others (name one Top 3 driver that uses anything but the bumper view.)

I share messages with Imallin7777, jtracer, NL_Jeroen, chas13, Ace-italia.. these are the fastest guys. I know what they use. My position isnt based on guessing.

But look, if it makes you feel like a successful trial lawyer, then yes: hypothetically its possible to do *something* with another view. Just like its hypothetically possible for you to just say- 'yes, bumper view seems to be used by all the fastest drivers on the leaderboards.' I'm not holding my breath on either scenario.

 

[The Outlaw]

This argument is moot at this point. It is a matter of what's easier (bumper vs. other views) versus what is faster in the ultimate sense (manual vs. auto). Regardless of who has done what.

Yes, the top times have been posted using the bumper cam. Is this theoretically achievable with other views? YES! Can an automatic car theoretically be as fast as a manual with a perfect driver? NO! That's all I was pointing out to begin with.

Your post #61 made it sound as if it was not POSSIBLE to go as fast as a driver using the bumper cam versus any other view. I see where you are coming from now (according to leaderboard standings), but your original post causes one to contemplate what you were really trying to get across. 👍

 

[Kneedragger]

I dont want you to think I read your last post and just ignored it (or you). No, I respect a good argument and a good argue-er. I had a very narrow and defined point of view, and yours was the broader one of the thing being technically possible (which of course it has to be!)

So no hard feelings-- it was a good battle but I'm glad its over.
Take care, and by the way you never told me what view you use.
We'll save that one for another time.

mark

p.s. me and Ayrton were born inthe same year and I have something interesting: its an actual team shirt from the 94' season, after Imola. For the remaining races they used Nigel Mansell, but the pit team shirts now had Senna's logo on it-- as a tribute. I bought it from a place in NY, NY that deals in such things in early 95. Its a treasure to me as you can imagine.

 

[The Outlaw]

I dont want you to think I read your last post and just ignored it (or you). No, I respect a good argument and a good argue-er. I had a very narrow and defined point of view, and yours was the broader one of the thing being technically possible (which of course it has to be!)

So no hard feelings-- it was a good battle but I'm glad its over.
Take care, and by the way you never told me what view you use.
We'll save that one for another time.

mark

I respect you for that one 👍 We were both correct, just in different aspects as you clearly understand. Confusion happens easy when trying to portray complex thoughts in quickly typed out messages...it's happened to me many times on other forums lol.

A few post back I mentioned I use the 6-axis and chase cam Once I get a wheel (hopefully this month) I will of course use one of the inboard views. Even though the 6-axis isn't the most realistic in terms of feel and all, you still learn lines as well as how and what it takes to be a quick driver. IMO, if you can use the 6-axis and commonly get within a couple/few tenths of the time trial world records you are doing quite good given the lack of control and precision of the 6-axis. I imagine once I get the wheel everything will feel much more natural and I will be able to elevate my game to the top level. I have a passion for driving that is very deep, natural, and technical in many aspects...its one of those things in my life that I won't give up until I am one of the best.

BTW, are you NTSC or PAL? I don't think I've ever had an encounter with you

Edit: That's an awesome shirt man...one of those priceless collectables that hangs on your wall for the rest of your life. Good stuff 👍

 

[Marky264]

Jeez guys whacha arguing about ^^^^ lol

Using a Dual Sock 3 Sixaxis I use the Bumper Cam, and using my DFGT I use the In Car View

 

[Kneedragger]

I imagine once I get the wheel everything will feel much more natural and I will be able to elevate my game to the top level. I have a passion for driving that is very deep, natural, and technical in many aspects...its one of those things in my life that I won't give up until I am one of the best.

I want to suggest that you take the opportunity to make a long post when you get the wheel, about what its like moving on from a controller. With your love of driving and your facility with words that would be something very worthwhile to read. I like that you said 'one of the best'. Thats exactly it. There are lots of high level 'racing-brains' out there.. some of the flags in the leaderboards I dont even recognize!

I have a slow connection that keeps me from racing online. TT mode is about as exciting as it gets for this cowboy. Unfortunately.

 

[SpawnBlack]

I use the in car view, manual trans, and analogue. It all depends on what car you use for the in car view. My times are the same as when i use the bumper cam so i dont bother with the bumper cam unless the in car view is Shyte. Just be sure that you set up the analogue controll so that you can look left and right to see if someone is next to you before making and sharp turns.

 

[ASH32]

I just can't drive properly without using the in car view, I hate it when games don't include the option. The in car view could do with some tweaking though, as the view out of some cars is poor.

 

[SteveO1965]

When i am racing online i use the in car view, when i am doing time trials i use the bumper cam.

 

[snowgt]

Bumper cam, no question. I wish there was an actual hood-cam (not roof), so you would get a better feel of how wide the car is and which would be a little closer to the actual height of your eyes in the car. E.g. the Codemasters BTCC-game used to have that - best feel in any racing game pov-wise, but didn't take away too much of the screen-area like an in-car view does.

That would be something that should be very easy to implement in the game, actually, as it is practically the same as the roof cam. Here's hoping they will in GT5...

 

[JosVerstappen]

if I could make adjustments to the cockpit view I might use it, but till then I'll be using bumper cam because it's feel more natural and best sense of speed.

 

[AutoAki]

When i am racing online i use the in car view, when i am doing time trials i use the bumper cam.

Exactly same what I do!

I dont know why, but I'm 0,4sec faster in Fuji, and 0.6sec in Suzuka with bumper-cam... so much I like more driving in-car, but in time-trials that time difference is light-year!

I also can drive much more non-mistake laps with bumper-cam.

Even those few things cant get me out of in-car when racing! Feeling and sounds inside cabin beats all the other views 6-0. Nowadays I have quite big HD-screen right front of me, (under 1 meter) so I see picture, and action well. Before that, I was watching basic TV from 3-4 meters distance, and using in-car was much more difficultier.

 

[machscnel]

Bumper cam, no question. I wish there was an actual hood-cam (not roof), so you would get a better feel of how wide the car is and which would be a little closer to the actual height of your eyes in the car. E.g. the Codemasters BTCC-game used to have that - best feel in any racing game pov-wise, but didn't take away too much of the screen-area like an in-car view does.

That would be something that should be very easy to implement in the game, actually, as it is practically the same as the roof cam. Here's hoping they will in GT5...

I'd have to agree with you. The first time I played the game I went through the views a few times looking for a proper bumper cam. To me anyway, the bumper cam is the best view. However if changes where made to the interior view, I might change my mind.

 

[BALDY500]

i always use bumper cam you just get more feel for it

 

[Nicko]

I prefer to use the bumper cam but sometimes I use the in-car view

 

[SpawnCH]

I use almost always the bumper cam. If not, I'm driving in cockpit view

 

[Tenacious D]

GT5 needs as many driver views as possible. Ideally, it should be coded with a camera you can adjust to your liking.

 

[MinoltaMan89]

I voted "bumber cam" (, that's what the poll said), which I use in all my racing games.

 

[Peter]

I use what i want when i want.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

This poll should have been multiple-choice. I like to choose between several different views. Basically, i use them all except the chase view (behind the car).

I love the cockpit view...but the bottom line is i get my best lap times when using hood or bumper view. So i find myself switching between these three.

 

[Forgetful]

I don't buy the 'in-car view is the most realistic' philosophy. Maybe if you're a one-eyed Pirate... and you lean you seat waaaaay back, like a gangsta.

Damn Gangsta Pirates, always messing up my *&^%!

IRL, When I sit in the drivers seat, I can see the A pillar on the passenger's side, I can even see the pax side mirror, in my peripheral vision, when looking straight ahead. I can see the whole of my rearview as well.

My cars just always has a G25 steering wheel, my interior is less Alcantra leather, more shag carpet, but at least I have a realistic field of vision, a proper full mirror, and as a result, better situational awareness.

Also the second set of hands kinda creeps me out.

 

[NoTalent]

I use both in-car and bumper. When I'm racing on-line, I use bumper cam because I feel like it provides me a bit more visibility, but from the perspective of immersion, I like the in-car view

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I don't buy the 'in-car view is the most realistic' philosophy. Maybe if you're a one-eyed Pirate... and you lean you seat waaaaay back, like a gangsta.

Damn Gangsta Pirates, always messing up my *&^%!

IRL, When I sit in the drivers seat, I can see the A pillar on the passenger's side, I can even see the pax side mirror, in my peripheral vision, when looking straight ahead. I can see the whole of my rearview as well.

My cars just always has a G25 steering wheel, my interior is less Alcantra leather, more shag carpet, but at least I have a realistic field of vision, a proper full mirror, and as a result, better situational awareness.

Also the second set of hands kinda creeps me out.

Wow, you're so right. You know i used to think the 'in-car" view was most realistic but now you've shown me the light. I won't be satisfied now till PD gets this right, dammit! Even if it takes another three years of development.

 

[Forgetful]

That's great Bone! I'm not trying to rip on anyone who does use in-car, but I just have to explain why I don't like, for the sake of anyone like you who might come to see the light.

 

[Radracing]

I use bumper car view and use in car view when viewing replays of my runs. I have one complaint about bumper view it seems to work differently with every car and can't tell the exact distance when tailing a car and can sometimes endup punting someone if I miss calculate. So I wish it would show a partial view of the bumper or a hood view with the gauges in view too.

 

[ccmouse]

I was using bumper cam with sixaxis. But after I switch to G25, I changed to in-car views. It is the right view where i position myself and the 4 wheels.