Wheel Advice - Choosing between T300 and G29 - including a PollPS4

[TheBull]

And Fanatec or TM don't? If they don't sell new wheels wont they meet the same fate? I am not sure how TM and Fanatec can survive with there older wheels being supported, but its a death sentence for older Logitech wheels to be supported.

Fantec i cant speak of but Thrustmaster paid for exclusitivity rights for the PS4 meaning they would be the only ones at launch of the PS4 so they sold wheels like hot cakes picking up Logitechs business at the bottom end of the market it was a smart business decision

 

[fatkrakr]

Fantec i cant speak of but Thrustmaster paid for exclusitivity rights for the PS4 meaning they would be the only ones at launch of the PS4 so they sold wheels like hot cakes picking up Logitechs business at the bottom end of the market it was a smart business decision

Maybe your right, but that would mean Logitech signed a deal knowing they were giving all their competition a decided advantage. I cant see any business doing so. You at a minimum want to be even, never at a disadvantage. In that case Logitech would of been better off staying out as they already were.

 

[TheBull]

Maybe your right, but that would mean Logitech signed a deal knowing they were giving all their competition a decided advantage. I cant see any business doing so. You at a minimum want to be even, never at a disadvantage. In that case Logitech would of been better off staying out as they already were.

Logitech stopped making wheels in 2012 stopped offering support in 2013 ,They were almost Bankrupt and had to steamline their business to save it ,They probably could not afford to pay Sony the licence fee at the launch of the PS4 ,This is probably why they had to build a new wheel to create a new customer base without doing so ,they would have to pay SONY so their old products would work ,why would they do that without creating income for themselves?

 

[fatkrakr]

Logitech stopped making wheels in 2012 stopped offering support in 2013 ,They were almost Bankrupt and had to steamline their business to save it ,They probably could not afford to pay Sony the licence fee at the launch of the PS4 ,This is probably why they had to build a new wheel to create a new customer base without doing so ,they would have to pay SONY so their old products would work ,why would they do that without creating income for themselves?

All valid points. Just as valid though is that Logi would do so just as the others for good customer will and bringing along their customer base. They will be more likely to upgrade to another Logi product when their current one fails or they just want to upgrade for whatever reasons. Logi caught a lot of flack when they left, enough that they came back, and to me this would be a good way for a company to regain all that good will that they once enjoyed. A happy customer base is worth way more than the profits from one new product.

 

[TheBull]

All valid points. Just as valid though is that Logi would do so just as the others for good customer will and bringing along their customer base. They will be more likely to upgrade to another Logi product when their current one fails or they just want to upgrade for whatever reasons. Logi caught a lot of flack when they left, enough that they came back, and to me this would be a good way for a company to regain all that good will that they once enjoyed. A happy customer base is worth way more than the profits from one new product.

This is what you dont seem to understand ,The console is the customer base ,the periphals that go with it ie the wheel are limited or exclusive to the console ,it does not matter if you the existing customer of Logitech you willl still buy the new products that go with the new console

This is why they keep upgrading the consoles to attract a new generation of gamers when the last generation moves on to do other things in their life

Yes it is a big middle finger to the existing logitech customers but they know they will make more money from the new customer than they will from supporting the old

Its business 101

 

[fatkrakr]

This is what you dont seem to understand ,The console is the customer base ,the periphals that go with it ie the wheel are limited or exclusive to the console ,it does not matter if you the existing customer of Logitech you willl still buy the new products that go with the new console

This is why they keep upgrading the consoles to attract a new generation of gamers when the last generation moves on to do other things in their life

Yes it is a big middle finger to the existing logitech customers but they know they will make more money from the new customer than they will from supporting the old

Its business 101

I understand your point. What I don't understand is why you believe its that way for Logitech, but not for TM and Fanatec.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Finally someone defending Logitech. I'm sick of hearing people complain about the G27 which is still working years after they bought it, because the PS4 is not compatable.

Sure the Thrustmaster wheel is a little bigger, and utilizes newer technology, but when it breaks you are going to wish you had a G29. The G29 will last you until the PS5 comes out. If I remember correctly, I bought my Driving Force GT back in 2010. I just sold it to a kid for $50.00. That thing still works, and I put thousands of hours on it.

I have been a fan of Thrustmaster since the 1990s when I was big into flight simulators. Trust me, this is not the same company. I really wish it were. They make a really great wheel, but not a reliable one.

So for me the choice is clear. Logitech G29.

Literally the only advantage to the G29 is reliability. It's essentially a G27 with a few more buttons, sold at twice the price, and without a gear shift. The TM300 wheel outclasses it in every way for about the same price.

Sony did exactly that to every game that was made for the PS3. Logitech doesn't break. They would go out of business if you never had to buy a new controller. Of course Thrustmaster doesn't care. You are going to have to buy a new one as soon as the warranty runs out.

As @BrandonW77 mentioned, yes they do. I had the same optical encoder issue and had to exchange my wheel after 6 months, and had a problem with my DFGT brake pedal that required some engineering to get it to work properly again after 2 years.

Fantec i cant speak of but Thrustmaster paid for exclusitivity rights for the PS4 meaning they would be the only ones at launch of the PS4 so they sold wheels like hot cakes picking up Logitechs business at the bottom end of the market it was a smart business decision

No proof has ever been provided for TM exclusivity. See the last few pages of the thread, it's pure speculation.

Logitech stopped making wheels in 2012 stopped offering support in 2013 ,They were almost Bankrupt and had to steamline their business to save it ,They probably could not afford to pay Sony the licence fee at the launch of the PS4 ,This is probably why they had to build a new wheel to create a new customer base without doing so ,they would have to pay SONY so their old products would work ,why would they do that without creating income for themselves?

No they didn't. I can still walk into Best Buy in my home town and by a brand new G27. The G27 has remained in production even after Logitech announced they were leaving the console peripheral market. They never left the pc market.

Since the G27 is still in production, creating drivers to make it work on the PS4 makes sense because it would be the go to option for anyone looking for a really good mid-range wheel and it would be postioned as by far, the best wheel value on console. They'd sell by the boatload. They could still have released the G29 as their only fully compatible wheel, with the extra buttons and knobs etc and it would still sell.

 

[TheBull]

I understand your point. What I don't understand is why you believe its that way for Logitech, but not for TM and Fanatec.

Literally the only advantage to the G29 is reliability. It's essentially a G27 with a few more buttons, sold at twice the price, and without a gear shift. The TM300 wheel outclasses it in every way for about the same price.

As @BrandonW77 mentioned, yes they do. I had the same optical encoder issue and had to exchange my wheel after 6 months, and had a problem with my DFGT brake pedal that required some engineering to get it to work properly again after 2 years.

No proof has ever been provided for TM exclusivity. See the last few pages of the thread, it's pure speculation.

No they didn't. I can still walk into Best Buy in my home town and by a brand new G27. The G27 has remained in production even after Logitech announced they were leaving the console peripheral market. They never left the pc market.

Since the G27 is still in production, creating drivers to make it work on the PS4 makes sense because it would be the go to option for anyone looking for a really good mid-range wheel and it would be postioned as by far, the best wheel value on console. They'd sell by the boatload. They could still have released the G29 as their only fully compatible wheel, with the extra buttons and knobs etc and it would still sell.

I cannot buy a G27 anywhere in England and how do you know youre not buying old stocks of G27?

 

[fatkrakr]

I cannot buy a G27 anywhere in England and how do you know youre not buying old stocks of G27?

I guess its possible, but 3 years later and still selling them? I highly doubt that and its still available on their official website.

Edit: The DFGT has been discontinued I believe.

Edit 2: G27 also received a small upgrade last year.

 

[TheBull]

I guess its possible, but 3 years later and still selling them? I highly doubt that and its still available on their official website.

I can only buy the G27 in England through websites not to walk in and buy ,who knows how many they built this could have been the reason they went into near bankruptcy in 2012 putting too much money into a product they havent sold

 

[fatkrakr]

I can only buy the G27 in England through websites not to walk in and buy ,who knows how many they built this could have been the reason they went into near bankruptcy in 2012 putting too much money into a product they havent sold

As I edited above the G27 received some upgrades last year, mainly being a new encoder wheel, but also new packaging. So telling new from old stock is as simple as the box color.

 

[TheBull]

As I edited above the G27 received some upgrades last year, mainly being a new encoder wheel, but also new packaging. So telling new from old stock is as simple as the box color.

Np dude i am enjoying the conversation not to try and get one over on you after all it is a forum not a war zone

 

[BrandonW77]

....after all it is a forum not a war zone

I was under the impression that "forum" and "war zone" were interchangeable terms. That's certainly been my experience anyway.

 

[fatkrakr]

Np dude i am enjoying the conversation not to try and get one over on you after all it is a forum not a war zone

Same here.
Would still like to know why you think its bad business for Logitech to support their old wheels, but it isn't for TM and Fanatec?

 

[kikie]

Finally someone defending Logitech. I'm sick of hearing people complain about the G27 which is still working years after they bought it, because the PS4 is not compatable.

Sure the Thrustmaster wheel is a little bigger, and utilizes newer technology, but when it breaks you are going to wish you had a G29. The G29 will last you until the PS5 comes out. If I remember correctly, I bought my Driving Force GT back in 2010. I just sold it to a kid for $50.00. That thing still works, and I put thousands of hours on it.

I have been a fan of Thrustmaster since the 1990s when I was big into flight simulators. Trust me, this is not the same company. I really wish it were. They make a really great wheel, but not a reliable one.

So for me the choice is clear. Logitech G29.

I'm also leaning more and more towards the G29. First choice would still be the OSW. But this a very expensive wheel without pedals. Because it is so expensive and I don't even know if I need one just to play race games, I'm thinking more and more of getting the G29. It is afterall the only company that has reliable wheels.

 

[TheBull]

I was under the impression that "forum" and "war zone" were interchangeable terms. That's certainly been my experience anyway.

LMFAO too true

Same here.
Would still like to know why you think its bad business for Logitech to support their old wheels, but it isn't for TM and Fanatec?

lol now youre testing me ,but think Units sold ,Logitech was the clear market leader for wheels pre PS4 ,so by not supporting the old wheels its forcing you to buy a new wheel to accompany the new console

This does not mean or am i stating that the g27 will never be compatiable with the PS4 but it makes more business sense to build up the new product rather than pay Sony for supporting the old wheel(s)

In the case of Thrustmaster and fanatec their customer base was probably too small pre PS4 to piss anybody off so they paid Sony for compatibility

 

[TJC_69]

G29 .

No point in buying a TM wheel for it to break apart after a few laps of nordschleife .

Are TM the Microsoft Xbox 360 of racing wheels ? Bleh , Logitech is my next choice of wheel .

 

[fatkrakr]

In the case of Thrustmaster and fanatec their customer base was probably too small pre PS4 to piss anybody off so they paid Sony for compatibility

I don't understand what you mean there. If they were too small to worry about why pay for support? Seems like by that logic Logitech should be paying for it and the others not.

 

[BrandonW77]

No point in buying a TM wheel for it to break apart after a few laps of nordschleife .

Where does this come from? I've had no problems with my T300 (I've literally put hundreds of hours on it), and I know a few other people who have had their T300 even longer than me and they have had no problems. Is it because a few people on the internet complained about some problems with theirs? Every product is going to have a few faulty units, just because a few people were very vocal about their problems (while the happy customers were too busy racing to post their opinions on the internet) doesn't mean every unit is going to implode after a few laps.

I did however have problems with my G27. Having used both wheels, the T300 is a far superior bit of kit and completely changes the driving/racing experience. IMO, if you're shelling out close to $500 on a gaming peripheral go for the one that's better/more enjoyable, even if it cost a few more bucks. You'll find plenty of people who had problems with each one and plenty of people who had no problems with each one, so go for the better product. I have personal experience with both as well as the Fanatec GT3 RS and I'd rank the Logitech wheels as last place of the three. I've been using FFB wheels for nearly 15 years and of the 6 different FFB wheels I've owned in my lifetime the G27 is the only one that ever failed on me. it's a fine wheel, but it's not the best and it certainly isn't bulletproof, nor are Thrustmaster wheels made of glass.

 

[TheBull]

I don't understand what you mean there. If they were too small to worry about why pay for support? Seems like by that logic Logitech should be paying for it and the others not.

Yes it does seem rather backward does it not ,but the business world isnt a common sense world ,They know you dont buy a Console because Logitech make a wheel for it ,They know you buy the console you want then buy a wheel that fits youre budget ,so why pay Sony for what is essentially the previous generation console wheel ,when Sony and Logitech know you will pay for the matching accessories to the console

 

[fatkrakr]

Yes it does seem rather backward does it not ,but the business world isnt a common sense world ,They know you dont buy a Console because Logitech make a wheel for it ,They know you buy the console you want then buy a wheel that fits youre budget ,so why pay Sony for what is essentially the previous generation console wheel ,when Sony and Logitech know you will pay for the matching accessories to the console

I think with that though your over looking how much customer good will means. I don't think Logitech will over look that, they never have. Its always been very important to them and one of the things they were praised for. Giving new wheels to customers who wheels were out of warranty! Who does that? The people buying the G29 now re buying with or without the old wheels support. By bringing along your customer base you are far more likely having them as a repeat customers than you are by trying to force them to upgrade.

 

[TheBull]

I think with that though your over looking how much customer good will means. I don't think Logitech will over look that, they never have. Its always been very important to them and one of the things they were praised for. Giving new wheels to customers who wheels were out of warranty! Who does that? The people buying the G29 now re buying with or without the old wheels support. By bringing along your customer base you are far more likely having them as a repeat customers than you are by trying to force them to upgrade.

Yes you would think that ,but they also know they are a named brand and trusted just look at some of the comments above they know they can take this chance with their recent history and still outsell Thrustmaster and Fanatec in the coming year ,then probably introduce the G27 to the PS4 for GT7 knowing that the increased social awareness via that gaming network will finally get existing customers to upgrade to the G29

Some people would describe that as a middle finger to existing customers ,Business people would call it Market strategy lol

 

[dr_slump]

Would you like to explain how Fanatic wheels work then?

All those wheels aren't recognized/accepted by the PS4 as controllers. Means they don't work in any menu, any game or application that uses standard controllers.

The only way those wheels can be used, is if the game includes support for them.
The reason for wheels not to be supported is either due to it requiring too much effort, legal issues in case the manufacturer doesn't allow modifying their drivers in combination with (or solely) technical issues in terms of closed code or the game developers being kind enough to always ask the manufactuers and eventually comply with whatever they say.

EDIT: Logitech would very likely have to pay first Immersion for licensing and then Sony again for licensing.
This is probably the main reason.

 

[TheBull]

All those wheels aren't recognized/accepted by the PS4 as controllers. Means they don't work in any menu, any game or application that uses standard controllers.

The only way those wheels can be used, is if the game includes support for them. It's the games that must support the wheels in order to make them usable, not the PS4.
The reason for wheels not to be supported is either due to it requiring too much effort, legal issues in case the manufacturer doesn't allow modifying their drivers in combination with (or solely) technical issues in terms of closed code or the game developers being kind enough to always ask the manufactuers and eventually comply with whatever they say.

Excellent post

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

G29 .

No point in buying a TM wheel for it to break apart after a few laps of nordschleife .

Are TM the Microsoft Xbox 360 of racing wheels ? Bleh , Logitech is my next choice of wheel .

When my Logitech failed a few years back I went to Fanatec, now a TX for the past year without problems. You are exaggerating.

 

[sk8er913]

When my Logitech failed a few years back I went to Fanatec, now a TX for the past year without problems. You are exaggerating.

Hows the ABS? I wish the g27 had ABS.

 

[TJC_69]

Where does this come from? I've had no problems with my T300 (I've literally put hundreds of hours on it), and I know a few other people who have had their T300 even longer than me and they have had no problems. Is it because a few people on the internet complained about some problems with theirs? Every product is going to have a few faulty units, just because a few people were very vocal about their problems (while the happy customers were too busy racing to post their opinions on the internet) doesn't mean every unit is going to implode after a few laps.

I did however have problems with my G27. Having used both wheels, the T300 is a far superior bit of kit and completely changes the driving/racing experience. IMO, if you're shelling out close to $500 on a gaming peripheral go for the one that's better/more enjoyable, even if it cost a few more bucks. You'll find plenty of people who had problems with each one and plenty of people who had no problems with each one, so go for the better product. I have personal experience with both as well as the Fanatec GT3 RS and I'd rank the Logitech wheels as last place of the three. I've been using FFB wheels for nearly 15 years and of the 6 different FFB wheels I've owned in my lifetime the G27 is the only one that ever failed on me. it's a fine wheel, but it's not the best and it certainly isn't bulletproof, nor are Thrustmaster wheels made of glass.

It's well known within the community that the T300 has reliability issues long term . And yes of course there can be instances of faulty products etc . On the flip side I would argue that Logitechs wheels are better built , many G25s and G27s from release day one are still going strong . In deciding on a wheel it's best to seek all the viewpoints you can , both positive and negative . Thus far I don't see any logical reason to pick up a T300 . Especially with the pedals it comes with . A G29 plus the shifter and you're all set . Saw this thread today and i'm keeping an open mind on all viewpoints . But G29 is definitely looking like the must have option with the T300 being the wrong long term choice so far in my opinion .
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...d-Pedals-pCARS-wonderfully-smooth-and-perfect!

When my Logitech failed a few years back I went to Fanatec, now a TX for the past year without problems. You are exaggerating.

You'd think so with this being the internet wouldn't you ? How about post number 44 from here , i'm sure he'd disagree with you . His TX broke within 30 seconds . Not to mention the problems he had with customer service .
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...s-pCARS-wonderfully-smooth-and-perfect!/page5

All in all I think the voting in this thread is not accurately represented with a heavy dose of TM T300 bias as it's been the only wheel of the two that has been available thus far . So obviously it will be skewed in the T300s favour . In a few months time if you repeated the poll it would be a different story logically speaking , with more accurate representation from both viewpoints .

There will always be fans of both , and alot of people don't like admitting that they bought the wrong , or more accurately put , the least reliable choice of product .

 

[BrandonW77]

It's well known within the community that the T300 has reliability issues long term . And yes of course there can be instances of faulty products etc . On the flip side I would argue that Logitechs wheels are better built , many G25s and G27s from release day one are still going strong . In deciding on a wheel it's best to seek all the viewpoints you can , both positive and negative . Thus far I don't see any logical reason to pick up a T300 . Especially with the pedals it comes with . A G29 plus the shifter and you're all set . Saw this thread today and i'm keeping an open mind on all viewpoints . But G29 is definitely looking like the must have option with the T300 being the wrong long term choice so far in my opinion .
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...d-Pedals-pCARS-wonderfully-smooth-and-perfect!

That's find and good, and I don't disagree with any of those points, but to claim it's going to fall apart after a couple laps is just misinformation. I had older Logitech wheels that literally worked for 10 years, I used to swear by them. But after the G27 debacle I can never recommend them again. I have hundreds of hours on my T300 (and I've had it less than a year) with no issues so far, and it's so much more of an enjoyable experience than the Logitech wheels that I'd still choose it even if I had to send it in once a year for repairs. I loved my G27 (when it worked) but the way it died was very disappointing, and to know that every G27 has the potential for this to happen (except very newer ones which have reportedly had the optical wheel beefed up) makes it hard for me to recommend it to anyone.

I'd also still recommend the Fanatec GT3 RS V2 with CSR Elite pedals over the G27/G29 any day, and sometimes you can get a bundle for about the same price as a G27 (and cheaper than the G29). 👍

 

[Spitfire77]

Dude but man the G29 has those RPM lights..

Actually I really like those lights and I wish my T300 had them too.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's well known within the community that the T300 has reliability issues long term . And yes of course there can be instances of faulty products etc . On the flip side I would argue that Logitechs wheels are better built , many G25s and G27s from release day one are still going strong . In deciding on a wheel it's best to seek all the viewpoints you can , both positive and negative . Thus far I don't see any logical reason to pick up a T300 . Especially with the pedals it comes with . A G29 plus the shifter and you're all set . Saw this thread today and i'm keeping an open mind on all viewpoints . But G29 is definitely looking like the must have option with the T300 being the wrong long term choice so far in my opinion .
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...d-Pedals-pCARS-wonderfully-smooth-and-perfect!



You'd think so with this being the internet wouldn't you ? How about post number 44 from here , i'm sure he'd disagree with you . His TX broke within 30 seconds . Not to mention the problems he had with customer service .
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...s-pCARS-wonderfully-smooth-and-perfect!/page5

All in all I think the voting in this thread is not accurately represented with a heavy dose of TM T300 bias as it's been the only wheel of the two that has been available thus far . So obviously it will be skewed in the T300s favour . In a few months time if you repeated the poll it would be a different story logically speaking , with more accurate representation from both viewpoints .

There will always be fans of both , and alot of people don't like admitting that they bought the wrong , or more accurately put , the least reliable choice of product .

You have anecdotal evidence from forums who's purpose is to gather people together with complaints. Any argument you make in favour of G27's you can also make for T300's. Unless you have access to reliability data for both wheels, you're just speculating as to how well they are built and how long the average one lasts. What we can say for certain though, is that the T300 is a far better wheel in every other respect. That is a logical reason to choose the T300 over any Logitech wheel.