Where Did GT2 Fail?

[JohnBM01]

If I'm not mistaken, this is my first-ever thread in the GT2 forums. GTPlanet, I normally talk about how GT2, while still a good game, could have been much better. I've talked about there were so many Easter Eggs and not really good connections to them. Think about it. You have drag race cars without much in the way of drag racing to use them. MAYBE you can make good use of them on Test Course. Rome-Night can only be raced in three ways- (1) unlocked in Arcade Mode, (2) raced in one of the Super License tests with the Alfa Romeo 155 Touring Car, or (3) selected at random for random race events. The 3000GT wasn't as fun as in GT1. People said GT2 is faster, but to me, it's only fast because my top speed in that game was 260 mph, but it's actually slower than GT1. All in all, I thought GT2 was the biggest disappointment in the GT series. It's only a disappointment in having all sorts of race cars and tracks without enough good events to use them with. I think most of all, the big problem was not having the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR unless you use a cheat. That would have been the best car you'd ever use from Mercedes-Benz, but the licensing didn't come through in time, I heard.

So if you think GT2 has been the worst GT in the GT series, here's your chance to talk about WHY and WHERE GT2 failed. Reply now to get things going.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Silly catchup features...

Went to play it for a little while last night.

Got my Stage 1 Tommy Kaira Skyline R34, 430bhp....

Can't alter the settings in your garage, so had to go to test course to take the turbo off to enter the ~395bhp races... A long winded way around.

Then once in an OPEN race, i blasted past the opposition, down the main straight at Rome, and they were nowhere to be seen until the cobbled corner where they were right behind me.

A few went past, and I easily passed them again, and flew off down the next straight.

Made a silly mistake, and they were RIGHT behind me again, main straight again now, and they are right on my tail, but not passing...

Now, if I drive just behind the 3rd place car all race, it's a laid back affair, then just fly past them all on the last lap, but not passing the 1st place car till the last corner...

Catch up is STILL ruining that game for me... it's worse in the early races to the point there is no reason to bother upgrading your car, as the races are still just as close however much you spend tuning your hot hatch early on.

Glad that GT4 now has a points system, so if you enter a race in a super car thats easily going to win, you do easily win, but get little benefit for doing so... at least you KNOW whats going on, and don't have a Suzuki Swift chasing you down in your Stage 2 NA Cerberra, lol...

Dave

 

[TMM]

Not much to add as all the points seem to have been covered by the past 2 posts.

 

[liam2maps]

I am not so much a fan of GT2 either but it did have some positives too. It's just a shame that there weren't so many of them

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Hey welcome to GT2! This topic has been covered so many times, but gotta admit I never get tired of chatting about it. I've read almost all the early GT2 BBS posts at GT Forum--it's apparent that just days after the game was released, all the truest Gran Turismo fans were clearly disappointed with the sequel but found ways to enjoy the game anyways for what it was.

Here's my 2¢...well not really my 2¢ but a conglomeration of others who have posted their 2¢ (or Shillings, or ¥, or Euros, etc.): the game was rushed into production because they wanted to make a load of cash for the American Christmas season, notice that the European version of the game didn't come out till later if I'm not mistaken. Also, Playstation 2 was coming out within a year and Poly wanted to focus their attention towards the next game-GT3: A-Spec. For Poly to fix all the things that were wrong with the 2nd game, it would have taken months. To them, GT2 was already old hat.

The way I see it, GT2 was an evolutionary step for the designers who made it. It could have been a lot better than it was, but it still kicks ass over any other race simulation made for Playstation 1, Sega, or Nintendo, period.

 

[liam2maps]

Isn't there a Rome Night Endurance as well?

 

[fieldy]

Hey welcome to GT2! This topic has been covered so many times, but gotta admit I never get tired of chatting about it. I've read almost all the early GT2 BBS posts at GT Forum--it's apparent that just days after the game was released, all the truest Gran Turismo fans were clearly disappointed with the sequel but found ways to enjoy the game anyways for what it was.

Here's my 2¢...well not really my 2¢ but a conglomeration of others who have posted their 2¢ (or Shillings, or ¥, or Euros, etc.): the game was rushed into production cuz they wanted to make a load of cash for the american christmas season, notice that the European version of the game didn't come out till later if i'm not mistaken. Also, PLaystation 2 was coming out within a year and Poly wanted to focus their attention towards the next game-GT3: A-Spec. For Poly to fix all the things that were wrong with the 2nd game, it would have taken months. To them, GT2 was already old hat.

The way i see it, GT2 was an evolutionary step for the designers who made it. It could have been alot better than it was, but it still kicks ass over any other race simulation made for Playstation 1, Sega, or Nintendo, period.

Well said Parnelli Bone. This may be slighty OT but it seemed that history was going to repeat itself with GT4, but thankfully that didn't happen.

 

[TMM]

Well said Parnelli Bone. This may be slighty OT but it seemed that history was going to repeat itself with GT4, but thankfully that didn't happen.

Maybe they learnt from their earlier mistakes?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Well said Parnelli Bone. This may be slighty OT but it seemed that history was going to repeat itself with GT4, but thankfully that didn't happen.

Well that's good to know.

 

[vette_7t9]

Well......its a very very good game, if not the best on PS1. BUT my only beef is.....the AI!!!! sons of b****es.....i just hate it when they use you for cornering and rub against you so the fine turning line is totally destroyed and you are forced to take the back seat. i mean...coulda put in some sorta collision detection on the AI so they slow down or think a bit.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Isn't there a Rome Night Endurance as well?

Man, I sure wish there was but there's no official endurance unless you unlock all the tracks on the Arcade disc and do a 99 lap race or something.

I wanted to add to my earlier post: a lot of the racers at www.gtforum.com were actually posting threads at the GT2 bulletin board trying to get petitions going so they could make Sony give them fixed copies of the game! In reply, Sony would often send back form letters (in other words, BS) that would say things like: “often in computer programs and games there are glitches. All games have them. Thank you and have a nice day.” See, Sony didn't care much. They had their money and that was that. With GT4, they've obviously learned a huge lesson: don't disappoint the hard-core gamers to appease the wallet!

 

[Cristiano]

Can you guys be serious? Before GT4 which I am not all familar with, GT2 to me is no contest the most complete of the GT games.

 

[HYBRIDLVR]

Well......its a very very good game, if not the best on PS1. BUT my only beef is.....the AI!!!! sons of b****es.....i just hate it when they use you for cornering and rub against you so the fine turning line is totally destroyed and you are forced to take the back seat. i mean...coulda put in some sorta collision detection on the AI so they slow down or think a bit.

I gotta AI car for you, You got a GameShark?

 

[TMM]

Can you guys be serious? Before GT4 which I am not all familar with, GT2 to me is no contest the most complete of the GT games.

I'm sorry but have you even played GT and GT3? Everybody is allowed an opinon and where I live you are allowed to express that opinon freely but that also means I'm allowed to challenge it.

What for you makes a complete game? In what way does GT2 satisfy your answers to the first question that neither GT or GT3 does?

 

[Cristiano]

I'm sorry but have you even played GT and GT3? Everybody is allowed an opinon and where I live you are allowed to express that opinon freely but that also means I'm allowed to challenge it.

What for you makes a complete game? In what way does GT2 satisfy your answers to the first question that neither GT or GT3 does?

Hey, if you are allowed to express yours, I can express mine, right?
-Races were just right, more selection than GT1, and didn't have all of the tedious 10 or more lap series of races with something such as the Vitz cup or something.
-Tuning was very forgiving, and the car setups to me tended to have more of an effect than in one and three, not to mention, who didn't love racing modification?
-GT2 had a better track selection
-GT2 had a large large number of cars
-The sheer number of cars and settings made for countless hours of trash-talk and whooping on your friends.
-First GT installment to feature the wheel shop and rally, though rally was pretty dull.

I won't say that GT2 didn't have it's downsides..though if not for graphical improvements and PS2, i'd take GT1 over three any day. However, now playing 4, i sorta get that feeling i had with 2.

Thanks

 

[JohnBM01]

That's another reason why I say that if you really want to know how far the GT series has come along, look to past GT games. If you have a PS2, you're all set. Play GT1. Then look to GT2. Do a little GT3. GT Concept is optional, as I think it's more of Gran Turismo 3-2 (like Final Fantasy X-2), or Gran Turismo III-2, or whatever the hell you want to call it otherwise.

(1) As I said, there were many cars. There were many tracks. There were many features. Some feel that having drag racing cars on drag racing tracks was dumb and should better be left to drag strips. But what all do you have with drag race cars in GT2? Well, you can run the 0-1000m races. I think 1000m is pretty close to a 1/4 mile race. But what good is a drag race if you have no one to drag race against? What? Do you like having Bye runs? (2) Lack of execution. In the GT series, Rome-Night is the worst amount of execution in a GT game. How the hell can you have a track in a game and not be able to utilize it with several types of races? In other words, what's the point of having a perfectly fine track... and not have anyone using it? I wouldn't mind doing GT500 races on the night course. Another dumb thing is that it's called "Rome-Night." It isn't exactly a DUMB name, but when I think of it, you could at least call it "Rome Circuit 2." Or since GT prefers to call "2" tracks the reverse variations, At least come up with a "Rome Circuit A" (short course), "Rome Circuit B" (full circuit), and "Rome Circuit C" (nighttime course). Either that, or make the full circuit a night race to make things interesting. (3) Confusing menus. You have to exit out of Simulation Mode just to save or load your game. Remember GT1? You could load and save your game from the comfort of your virtual home. GT2 asked if you want to save after getting a license, completing a race/championship, or something like that. Much worse, the damn My Home option about "Credits" could have been used for Loading and Saving than copyrights.

So, my 2 cents and then some. Just wanted to clarify some of my main points.

 

[TMM]

Hey, if you are allowed to express yours, I can express mine, right?
-Races were just right, more selection than GT1, and didn't have all of the tedious 10 or more lap series of races with something such as the Vitz cup or something.
-Tuning was very forgiving, and the car setups to me tended to have more of an effect than in one and three, not to mention, who didn't love racing modification?
-GT2 had a better track selection
-GT2 had a large large number of cars
-The sheer number of cars and settings made for countless hours of trash-talk and whooping on your friends.
-First GT installment to feature the wheel shop and rally, though rally was pretty dull.

I won't say that GT2 didn't have it's downsides..though if not for graphical improvements and PS2, i'd take GT1 over three any day. However, now playing 4, i sorta get that feeling i had with 2.

Thanks

Of course you are, as far as I know it is a free forum and you can express any opinon you wish.

There were more races & cars in GT2 than either GT ot GT3 but the graphics suffered for it, the gameplay suffered for it, the AI suffered for it. The list goes on. Yes it did include the wheel shop, but really what use is it other than to 'pimp your ride'? The Rally sections were a branch out and showed what was to come, but yes the gameplay on that was boring as well.

That's another reason why I say that if you really want to know how far the GT series has come along, look to past GT games. If you have a PS2, you're all set. Play GT1. Then look to GT2. Do a little GT3. GT Concept is optional, as I think it's more of Gran Turismo 3-2 (like Final Fantasy X-2), or Gran Turismo III-2, or whatever the hell you want to call it otherwise.

(1) As I said, there were many cars. There were many tracks. There were many features. Some feel that having drag racing cars on drag racing tracks was dumb and should better be left to drag strips. But what all do you have with drag race cars in GT2? Well, you can run the 0-1000m races. I think 1000m is pretty close to a 1/4 mile race. But what good is a drag race if you have no one to drag race against? What? Do you like having Bye runs? (2) Lack of execution. In the GT series, Rome-Night is the worst amount of execution in a GT game. How the hell can you have a track in a game and not be able to utilize it with several types of races? In other words, what's the point of having a perfectly fine track... and not have anyone using it? I wouldn't mind doing GT500 races on the night course. Another dumb thing is that it's called "Rome-Night." It isn't exactly a DUMB name, but when I think of it, you could at least call it "Rome Circuit 2." Or since GT prefers to call "2" tracks the reverse variations, At least come up with a "Rome Circuit A" (short course), "Rome Circuit B" (full circuit), and "Rome Circuit C" (nighttime course). Either that, or make the full circuit a night race to make things interesting. (3) Confusing menus. You have to exit out of Simulation Mode just to save or load your game. Remember GT1? You could load and save your game from the comfort of your virtual home. GT2 asked if you want to save after getting a license, completing a race/championship, or something like that. Much worse, the damn My Home option about "Credits" could have been used for Loading and Saving than copyrights.

So, my 2 cents and then some. Just wanted to clarify some of my main points.

Well added.

 

[JohnBM01]

How many of you were disappointed that the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR couldn't be included in the game by ship date? Sure, you can get it by a cheat. But without a cheat, this would have been one of the most awesome cars in the game. This issue isn't the highly overdone issue of no Ferrari or Porsche. It was just that the CLK-GTR would have been one of the best rides to own in GT2. It just didn't happen. Would I call that a complaint against GT4? No, I'd call it kind of a great shame it didn't make it. I was really looking forward to racing it in GT2.

I think GT2 really exploded with JGTC content. From GT2's Music CD, the bonus CD included extra downloads of GT2. You can either opt for more cars, or more money. But I used the extra downloads as a means of buying cars from another Memory Card. Anyways, there are many more JGTC Supras, a few more GT500 Skylines, some NSXes, as well as the Momo Corse Toyota MR2 and the Trueno that was reborn and ran in the JGTC sometimes in the late 1990s. There was also the Taeivon-Trampio Mitsubishi FTO, the RE Amemiya Matsumoto-Kiyoshi RX-7, even the Cusco Subaru Impreza. And unlike most modern Subarus, this Subaru was rear-wheel drive.

 

[TMM]

How many of you were disappointed that the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR couldn't be included in the game by ship date? Sure, you can get it by a cheat. But without a cheat, this would have been one of the most awesome cars in the game. This issue isn't the highly overdone issue of no Ferrari or Porsche. It was just that the CLK-GTR would have been one of the best rides to own in GT2. It just didn't happen. Would I call that a complaint against GT4? No, I'd call it kind of a great shame it didn't make it. I was really looking forward to racing it in GT2.

I think GT2 really exploded with JGTC content. From GT2's Music CD, the bonus CD included extra downloads of GT2. You can either opt for more cars, or more money. But I used the extra downloads as a means of buying cars from another Memory Card. Anyways, there are many more JGTC Supras, a few more GT500 Skylines, some NSXes, as well as the Momo Corse Toyota MR2 and the Trueno that was reborn and ran in the JGTC sometimes in the late 1990s. There was also the Taeivon-Trampio Mitsubishi FTO, the RE Amemiya Matsumoto-Kiyoshi RX-7, even the Cusco Subaru Impreza. And unlike most modern Subarus, this Subaru was rear-wheel drive.

You got those from a music bonus CD?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I wasn't disappointed by the missing Mercedes, but this is only 'cause I had never heard of it. Actually there's a whole list of cars i had never heard of before thanks to Gran Turismo. Even such vehicles like Imprezas, Lancers, the Honda S2000...I used to see these cars all the time everyday but didn't really ‘notice’ them till a year ago.

 

[TMM]

I wasn't disappointed by the missing Mercedes, but this is only cuz i had never heard of it. Actually there's a whole list of cars i had never heard of before thanks to Gran Turismo. Even such vehicles like Imprezas, Lancers, the Honda S2000...i used to see these cars all the time everyday but didn't really ‘notice’ them till a year ago.

Walkin around with eyes wide shut PB?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Walkin around with eyes wide shut PB?

Ha ha..no! it's just that to me all these cars looked the same and I was out of touch with what was going on in the automotive world. I grew up reading Road & Track and Popular Science magazine but in college I stopped caring. Also in America there are still tons of muscle cars around, especially on the west coast where metal doesn't rust as much cause they don't use road salt since it barely snows here. Muscle cars are so obviously endowed with power that they're very noticeable.

 

[Pupik]

Looking back at the 4 main games so far in the series, and that we all know GT2 was rushed, there were still a few gripes, complaints, etc.:

1) A few bugs included
The garage bug, percentage complete is off a few ticks, some promises like drag racing and mph/kph conversions (in the manual, and not in the game).

2) Traditional GT staples left out
Only four true race series (GT500, GT300, World Champs, and the Expert Event Generator), no backwards tracks (II's) expect for the manufacturer's events and arcade, and not enough restrictions on what cars you can enter in each event (nobody stops you from entering an NSX in the Station Wagon events).

There's also some spelling errors, as expected in a game made in Japanese and then translated to English. (I've noticed several in NTSC GT4!) In the end, they have nothing to do with game play.

However, the more I play GT4, the more I'm reminded of the impact GT2 had on the future of the series:
- Many, many cars.
- More tracks.
- More precise tuning (can't find toe and LSD settings in GT1)
- Wheel changes
- Intro of JGTC, real LM editions, and tuner cars
- Categories for different types of cars/sedans/wagons/keis, etc. (if you obey the "rules")
- Introduced the notion of historic (pre-1988) automobiles to the game (forgotten in GT3)
- Manufacturer's Events (love 'em or leave 'em)

Also, I found GT2 very easy to just pick up and play for 10 minutes at a time. And I can attest, you can play several new games of GT2 and not race many of the same cars twice (darn Manufacturer's Events).

 

[Max_DC]

I think that Gt2 was great... GT4 is way too easy, I can drive a 900 hp car in alomost every race... The PS classes of GT2 were just right, I miss that.... GT5 should have a similar system ( without aspec points)... Yeah a lot of bucks, but I loved it anyway....

 

[smellysocks12]

In my opinion Gran Turismo 3 is the worst version in the series.... the thing that made the GT series so much fun is the amount of cars, so going back from 600+ to 200 cars really annoyed me. Until GT4 came out to me GT2 was the best of the series. The GTO Twin Turbo in GT1 was fun to drive, but I prefered the Skyline. The Supra was not usable at all in the first GT, in GT2 it was improved.


I loved the amount of Euro / American cars in GT2.... but it was kind of a shame that they had a lot of slow version of cars in the game. For example the 318 instead of the m3...



The ONLY beef I had with GT2 is the colosseum in the Rome courses, it wasn't ROUND and it didn't look like a colosseum...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

In my opinion Gran Turismo 3 is the worst version in the series.... the thing that made the GT series so much fun is the amount of cars, so going back from 600+ to 200 cars really annoyed me. Until GT4 came out to me GT2 was the best of the series. The GTO Twin Turbo in GT1 was fun to drive, but I prefered the Skyline. The Supra was not usable at all in the first GT, in GT2 it was improved.


I loved the amount of Euro / American cars in GT2.... but it was kind of a shame that they had a lot of slow version of cars in the game. For example the 318 instead of the m3...



The ONLY beef I had with GT2 is the colosseum in the Rome courses, it wasn't ROUND and it didn't look like a colosseum...

Yeah, whoever heard of an octogonal colosseum?

You got some good points, smellysocks (okay, what's that name about?) I think GT2 is definitely the most ‘fun’ game. Like Pupik said, you can just race for 5 minutes if you want to....in most events you're not committed to sitting there forever trying to perfect qualifying runs and stuff.

But I have to disagree with you on the slow cars: I think they're the best way for a beginner to get hooked on the game. I was a beginner last year, and I started in a Ford KA...a Mustang or even a Cougar would have been way too much to handle. My friend Jon is a Nintendo/Mario Bros. fan and sucks at racing, yet he & I went head to head in Kei cars at Midfield and after a couple races he was keeping up with me pretty good! I let him win a race, though.

GT2 is definately the most accessible for beginners and Sony made lots of new fans with it, whether they meant it that way or not. The way-too-easy license tests are clearly made for NooBs to advance more easily. A lot of these new fans never tried GT1 but are now buying GT4.

 

[TMM]

In my opinion Gran Turismo 3 is the worst version in the series.... the thing that made the GT series so much fun is the amount of cars, so going back from 600+ to 200 cars really annoyed me. Until GT4 came out to me GT2 was the best of the series. The GTO Twin Turbo in GT1 was fun to drive, but I prefered the Skyline. The Supra was not usable at all in the first GT, in GT2 it was improved.


I loved the amount of Euro / American cars in GT2.... but it was kind of a shame that they had a lot of slow version of cars in the game. For example the 318 instead of the m3...



The ONLY beef I had with GT2 is the colosseum in the Rome courses, it wasn't ROUND and it didn't look like a colosseum...

The GTO TT in GT is OK but I do think it was an over rated car. What do you mean the Supra wasn't useable, all the cars in GT were useable, even the Demio. I admit you might have to practice your driving style and get some good setup's for the cars but I have rated the Supra as the fastest car round the test track @ 411KM/h. The GTO and 400R are close behind.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The GTO TT in GT is OK but I do think it was an over rated car. What do you mean the Supra wasn't useable, all the cars in GT were useable, even the Demio. I admit you might have to practice your driving style and get some good setup's for the cars but I have rated the Supra as the fastest car round the test track @ 411KM/h. The GTO and 400R are close behind.

My guess is SmellySocks never used analog gas/brakes, am i right Smelly?

 

[Sniffs]

I beg to differ with Parnelli Bone...after five years of racing in GT2, i am still a half a second over on most of the licence tests...in Analog mode. sorry, but you "one quarter geniuses" are a few steps ahead of me...a first generation gamer (i grew up on 2 bit games from Atari)

the general prob what GT2 was the rush to production

 

[PaleRider]

Strange topic this one; did GT2 fail? Where?? GT2 has only one weak point; the lousy PS1 grahics..