Where Did GT2 Fail?

[Pupik]

Heck, this is the longest new GT2 thread in past two or three years.

GT2 didn't fail, it just had a few bugs. If you got hooked on GT1, then GT2 was half disappointment, and half improvement; fans of the original "magic" got an unfinished product, but still got a Gran Turismo that was twice the game the origianl one was.

Since the arrival of GT3, it's not hard to say that GT2 was forgotten. I was rather disappointed by GT3's repetitive nature of track selection and massive lack of cars (compared to GT2). However, it seemed to be the easiest GT game of them all and the graphics were outstanding, to say the least...far better than any other racing game beforehand (and still better than a lot of these new games I see released, save GT4, of course).

The fact that Sony lured in a lot of buyers, not to mention an audience that was much more far-reaching than the 12-to-25-year-old core of video game buyers means they had a hit on thier hands. Suddenly, GT(3) wasn't just a game, mainly because the graphics were intense, and the cars had a personality when you combined mileage and carwashes, and totally bewildering random prize car presentation. Racing drivers, both past and present were playing and comparing it to real life. Billboards for GT4 went up for the 2004 24 Hours of Le Mans, racing cars and overalls were advertising the game in all sorts of venues. GT3 commercialized the GT series, which wasn't necessairly a bad thing, in my opinion.

And so, GT2 was only a failure because GT3 arrived on the scene just about 18 months after GT2's release. GT3 found a lot of happy gamers, ages 8 to 80. And it's world-wide popularity changed the market of the GT series from a little niche of enthusiasts to one of Sony's sacred cows. GT2 also came out just as the PSOne/PSX's fame was on the wane, about to be supplanted by the PS2.

GT4 took 2 years longer than that to arrive, so many of us know GT3 like the back of our hand. GT2 had a lot of quirks, and so it frustrated a lot of people. GT4 is going to do the same...there's going to be lots of people that aren't going to finish it for one reason or another (real-time 24hr races, anyone?)

One question: In any case if GT2 was such a failure, why was GT3 made?

 

[TMM]

Surely GT3 was made to cash in on the disappointed players of GT2. When people saw the graphics it became the next big hit and everybody had to have it.

 

[Sniffs]

something also to keep in mind. the Gran Turismo series has had guys in Iowa hankering for a japanese supercar. as far as I'm concerned, this is what caused Mitsu to haul the lancer Evo's over here. and I still think that "the fast and the Furious" and it's sequal are basically "gran turismo the movie"

 

[Pupik]

...I still think that "the fast and the Furious" and it's sequal are basically "gran turismo the movie"

Don't ever mix the F&F with the GT series again. That's what Need for Speed: Underground is...

You have been warned.

 

[TMM]

Don't ever mix the F&F with the GT series again. That's what Need for Speed: Underground is...

You have been warned.

I did wonder how he thought F&F was like the GT game?

 

[Sniffs]

LOL because of the trend at the time, because of a certian well endowed Heroine finally getting her movie in live action, after rumours since 98. VG based movies usually come in three packs, and only one is usually a hit. besides, I assumed I was right when I saw clips from 2 fast with an R34 GT-R in it.

 

[TMM]

LOL because of the trend at the time, because of a certian well endowed Heroine finally getting her movie in live action, after rumours since 98. VG based movies usually come in three packs, and only one is usually a hit. besides, I assumed I was right when I saw clips from 2 fast with an R34 GT-R in it.

Are R34 GT-R's not in NFS:U then?

 

[Sniffs]

Are R34 GT-R's not in NFS:U then?

i wouldn't know, man...I never got past Hot Pursuit.
i'm also one of those unlucky schmucks that doesn't HAVE a ps2, xbox or gamecube because of the horrendous price. I have to wait for the PS2 to come out to be able to afford one.

 

[Thirdeye]

i wouldn't know, man...I never got past Hot Pursuit.
i'm also one of those unlucky schmucks that doesn't HAVE a ps2, xbox or gamecube because of the horrendous price. I have to wait for the PS2 to come out to be able to afford one.

PS2's already out, heh.

 

[Woolie Wool]

And unlike most modern Subarus, this Subaru was rear-wheel drive.

4WD is not allowed in JGTC cars, so the Subaru is FR.

 

[SportWagon]

Isn't there a Rome Night Endurance as well?

There was no Rome Night Endurance Race.

I used a Game Shark to create one once (at least twice. actually), using the SSR5-All-Night field.

The AI cars had a great deal of trouble handling the pits.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

There was no Rome Night Endurance Race.

I used a Game Shark to create one once (at least twice. actually), using the SSR5-All-Night field.

The AI cars had a great deal of trouble handling the pits.

I would actually pay money to watch this! Haa haa :-/

 

[MacRoadster]

You can go to the arcade disc, set the number of laps to 99 and car damage on, and then you can have an "endurance" in any track...

What about an endurance in MotorSports circuit?

EDIT: Err.. forgot that Motor Sports Land is only available on time-trial...
But we still can make "Endurances" in lots of tracks (including reversed ones) and using different cars categories...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

You can go to the arcade disc, set the number of laps to 99 and car damage on, and then you can have an "endurance" in any track...

What about an endurance in MotorSports circuit?

EDIT: Err.. forgot that Motor Sports Land is only available on time-trial...
But we still can make "Endurances" in lots of tracks (including reversed ones) and using different cars categories...

What's up Mac? Yeah, I went thru a phase, I did a bunch of enduros on the Arcade disc over a year ago. Problem is there's no tire wear, and if you switch damage ‘on’, your car is the only one that is affected, the AI just breezes on thru the race no prob. As you know, I like things as realistic as they can get. It would be cool if you'd have to pit stop for gasoline as well as damage and tire wear. I'd be in racing heaven!

 

[MacRoadster]

Yes i know but... it's one way to make harder endurances, since only you have to pit...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yes i know but... it's one way to make harder endurances, since only you have to pit...

If anything, arcade damage mode forces you to do perfect driving...you can't wall ride, that's for sure, even the smallest tap on another car or a wall will start damaging your car. However, it is cool to have a 2 player race with damage on! This way your buddy can't ram you without paying for it.

 

[Korndawg]

yeah its really funny when both players cars are damaged so bad they have to fight it to keep in going in a straight line lol.. so many times ive missed the pit lane because i couldnt turn that direction

 

[Korndawg]

oh and gt2 did not fail in any way, the bugs are what make it so special.. duh

 

[MacRoadster]

oh and gt2 did not fail in any way, the bugs are what make it so special.. duh

... i guess they're GT2 features then...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

yeah its really funny when both players cars are damaged so bad they have to fight it to keep in going in a straight line lol.. so many times ive missed the pit lane because i couldnt turn that direction

My buddy & I used to do arcade races before he went to Burning Man last year, fell in love, and moved to Arizona! I'll never forget the first time I ‘accidentally’ put damage on his car in the options.

Dave: “Hey, what's up with my car, man?”

Parnelli: “I dunno. What, can't you keep up with me? c'mon, man!”

He was so pissed when he found out!

 

[Korndawg]

or like my lil brother who doesnt even care about the racing part and tries to just ram me till i cant finish a lap

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I'm in the process of trying to get my dad into Gran Turismo, so I can have an adult to race against. My 10 year old nephew just isn't a match for me and when I race against him, I find myself having to hold back a lot. I think maybe I oughta get him a copy of Mario Kart or Crash Bandicoot!

 

[Korndawg]

ah i always loved mario kart, so simple yet so fun

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeah and the physics are all wrong! I did some Mario races this past winter on my friend's GameCube and i acutually sucked! I'm so used to braking and taking corners more carefully and stuff

 

[Korndawg]

haha yeah that seems to be the problem with me and NFS games. i have NFS6 and you dont even need the brakes at all, on the sharp turns just let off the gas for a half second and get right back on it, so it takes me awhile to switch from one driving 'mode' to another

 

[dropzone]

A bit off topic up there on the last few posts but that's what happens when u jump from Sim racers to Arcades. And the games I'm switching between and playing right now are TXR3, GT4, NFSU2, and MC3: DE. It gets exhausting doing that.

I recall when GT1 was announced and I couldn't shut up about it when I was at school with my friends. When summer came I rented it twice back to back til my dad finally bought it. It was the only GT game I actually played through and got 100%. I felt the game was complete and realistic. When GT2 came out I was shocked that they fit so many cars in there and I loved the addition of rally courses. I don't think the game failed but there were the garage cars lost issue and percentage problem that made me wait til the Greatest Hits version was released. With so many cars and tracks it was obvious that gameplay would somehow be affected. It wasn't until GT2 that I started drifting in the game (made possible with more suspension settings, LSD, etc.) which took me away from doing races. I think of GT2 kind of as an expansion of 1. Solid controls, excellent tuning, realistic physics. Where did it fail? I can't find anything that supports it, or I wouldn't own it. GT3 and GT4 are similar in respect to their PS1 brothers, GT1 and GT3 are similar as being like a foundation for the series on their respective consoles, GT2 and GT4 as expanding and exploring what more can be done and push the systems limits.

 

[Korndawg]

strangely enough ive hed the game for almost 5 years and havnt had my garage deleted yet.. i guess ill get my chance to see it at work soon

 

[Parnelli Bone]

strangely enough ive hed the game for almost 5 years and havnt had my garage deleted yet.. i guess ill get my chance to see it at work soon

Well if it hasn't happened to you yet, it shouldn't happen at all.

I've had my garage deleted at least 3 or 4 times, but it hasn't happened for over a year. My theory is: I like to do lots of 400m, 1000m, and Top Speed tests. Basically, any new car I try I test it first cuz it helps me get to know its potential. Now I've got like 10 memory cards going at once, all with different games & garage types.

What I used to to is test, and then SAVE right after the test. And on top of that, I was also mixing records from one card to the next. At least 3 of my original games from March of 2004 started off on GT2 version 1.0 (now I'm using Greatest Hits version 1.2) so eventually that garage thief made its way from one card to the next till I got lucky and caught it. To this day, I still have a memory card/game with messed up records that go:

“0RA Mazda RX7 Speed 666±åø¶œ®”

or whatever. One day, I noticed the top car in that garage all the sudden had an insane amount of power. AHA! I caught the thief! I merely sold that car, bought a new one which I keep at the top of the garage just in case...but the thief has never returned. All my other memory cards are fine.

Nowadays, I do all my new records testing on a single card which is purely for tests (it's not a game, in other words), and share its records with all the rest of my games. So confusing, eh? But at least it works.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Where did it fail? I can't find anything that supports it, or I wouldn't own it.

So far, here's the summary! This is not a flame, merely a mental challenge.

Nobody said the game failed as a whole, that's not what this thread is about. But you gotta admit, out of the 4 Gran Turismos, GT2 is definitely the lowest in quality. It has the most issues and obvious mistakes when compared to the other 3 games. there are numerous areas where the game designers tried to make something happen that didn't quite work right. Disagree?

1. The garage thief. Like I said, I've experienced this one several times. So have millions of others I'm sure.

2. Sound cutting out during enduros, series races, and even some 3 lap sprints I've noticed. Sorry, this one gets real annoying when you're trying to ‘get into the game’. I hate it when I can't hear my car anymore, it throws me off!

3. Numerous typos, spelling errors, inconsistent spec & info sheets, random glitches. Go have a look at the ‘post your oddities’ thread on this bb which is now close to 20 pages long!

4. Occasional car merging during races. There goes your realism out the window!@

5. One of the Integras has a stock 3rd & 4th gear that are almost identical. Real bad news for Acura lovers.

6. Shoddy graphics. Some cars look great (or at least as good as the Playstation can support). Others look so horrible you can barely tell what they are, even in the showroom/garage!

7. Loss of many key features from GT1 that hardcore fans thought would be in GT2: the variable turbo boost, gearing charts, SS Route 11, Hi-res mode etc. (too many to mention here, basically).

8. Many cars sound the same. There's no way they sampled 600 exhaust pipes. It really gets bad when you hop in a Subaru wagon and notice it has the same sample as a Plymouth Superbird!

9. The game designers never programmed underparts. You can lower your car all the way and you'll never bottom out over those bumps.

10. Heavy pixelation of backgrounds during race replays at times, not to mention plenty of scenery pop-up. Sometimes, it's difficult to gauge when to start into a corner the graphics get so crappy.

11. Lots of people hated the fact that lap records were no longer recorded during races like they were in GT1. Instead, you have to fire up the Arcade disc to set a record.

12. Enduros & tire wear. It doesn't matter if you use supersoft or hard tires, they pretty much wear out at a similar rate, making pre-race tire strategy not so important.

13. As Gil says below, GT2 introduced horsepower limits, which in most cases are bogus. most times you can enter a race with 50 to 200 hp LESS than the limit and still win. 2 exceptions are the 2nd Historic race @ Rome and the Event Generator.

14. No qualifying. You always start in 6th place.

15. Rome Night only available as a random track or on the Arcade disc, as Gil noted. It's arguably the best-looking new course in GT2 but you can barely use it. Some folks may include Motorsport Land and Autumn Mini here, too.

16. Drag racing and mph/kph conversion promised in pre-GT2 hype as well as mentioned in the booklet but were not included in the game. Go the bulletin board on granturismoforum.com and you can read hundreds of posts from people: ‘where is drag racing?’ over and over. Clearly lots of people were not happy about this, tho personally i don't care.

17. Random used car lot only featured in East City.

18. As Gil noted, you can't save in your garage. You can't tune your car there, either. Instead, it takes a couple minutes of navigating to figure out where to go.

19. No pre-race info. You might be up against that Toyota GT1...but then again, you might not.

20. Earning gold. Some of the license tests are way too easy. Others take hours, if not days to conquer.

21. Many of the most exotic parts can't be used in free sim races without getting that ‘cheating’ feeling. In other words, i can enter my Jaguar XJ220 with a stage 1 turbo and pretty much win the World Cup, the All Stars races, etc. Stages 2, 3, and 4 aren't necessary unless you're not very experienced or want to race your buddy in a 2-player race.

22. The Escudo Pikes Peak was never a road car in r/l. In the game, too many people use it to cheat in sim enduros and road races, never gaining useful racing knowledge.

Despite all these negatives, I still love GT2, don't get me wrong. The car selection is why.

 

[Gil]

Take into account the technology of the time and GT2, while less than perfect, wasn't a "failure".
I never experienced the "garage thief" so I can't address that.
I did hate being unable to run at Rome Night. It was the most interesting track in the game.
I liked the HP restrictions, but it was a hassle not being able to "de-tune" a car in the garage. With few exceptions, if you tuned to the HP limit you could smoke the competition.
That's why I liked to do the Trial Mountain enduro in a basically stock S2000.
Before GT3, I used to like the Skyline. I'm starting to like it again with GT4, but It was a handful in GT3. GT3 did prove that you could overtune a car. GT2 did nothing to discourage overtuning. So many of us have garages with 774HP Street Skylines.
Yes, the graphics were bad compared to GT1, and GT3, but the physics engine was easier to deal with in GT2 compared to GT1, and you could actually spin out if you drove to aggessively, unlike GT3, which really has little idea what to do if you outstrip the physics engine. I don't think I've ever had an "unshceduled" 360 spin in GT3, but I had plenty in GT2 if I got too eager.

And why does the TVR Speed 12 have to suck in every one of the games it has been in?