Which is Faster Supra or skyline..??

[Kent]

So it has come to this... Linking videos about the real life counterpart and even off topic topgear discussion?
You guys know where that will lead if not changed right?

I'm thinking Sonzilla's post should be responded to, or otherwise, more testing should be done. In any case, the Skyline/Supra comparison should be the discussion in this old and well discussed thread.

So until next time... I'll be drving both of them.

 

[4DSC]

There are 2 episodes from Top Gear of the R34.. The one posted and another by the fat "bloke" who use to be on Top Gear instead of the Hamster and May..

 

[Sonzilla]

Well I went for it at Nur. I've been at it all night and this is the best I can do so far. Don't know what it stacks up against other times. I damn near almost wrecked on most of the turns pushing the cars limit pretty bad.

DS2 controller

1997 Supra RZ Fully Tuned 834Hp on R3 Tires.

Personal Best 6.01.655

VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZh2HPM1ejA

 

[Leonidae]

ok, try to repeat it without traction control..

 

[Sonzilla]

Sure lol, that would be a cool challenge.
I'm using TCS only on 2 I like it a little free'd up.

Recently I'm in the GTR VspecII NUR Fully tunned but I'm having problems with mid push on exit. This is killing me in and around Brunnchen. I'm off a few seconds on my sector times compared to the RZ but make it up at pflanzergarten II. The car handles so mush more speed and very balanced on quick high speed lefts and right. So far 6.05's. I'll try to break the 6min barrier with both cars. I'm pretty sure it's been done before.

Now I wonder were DE has gone. j/k


GTR NUR Settings:
Spring Rate: 13.8 / 12.6
Ride Hight: 99 / 102
Shock Absr: 5 / 5
Camber: 3.4 / 1.9
Toe: 2 / 3
Stabilizers: 4 / 5


Quick setup I did, any suggestions I'm all ears.

 

[Leonidae]

how does the car behave? understeer? oversteer? bouncy in bumps?

your setup looks quite stiff, bit too stif for nurb. the dampers are ok, I think ( you're using original suspension, am I right?) but still, try softening the front values a bit.

 

[Sonzilla]

Yeah it was late and I always work my way down with the settings. Yeah I worked down with a so far comfortable 8.2 / 7.4 rates, Less Bouncy, Less Push, less front bite. The GTR is so much easier to handle it's deff the best handling car especially here at NUR. I'm hitting 6.02.xxx on bad runs and so far a best of 5.58.793. I've been racing time attacks with Supra ever since two days ago purposely for the last month made sure I didn't touch a single GTR and now it's so much clearer that the GTR is one easy son of a gun to drive and tune quickly for hot laps. I've always knew this but I never raced this hard with these two cars since back in GT2/GT3 days. lol It brought back memories that the Supra always gives me a rush and the GTR relaxes me almost like a smooth message from not Two but Four ladies (AWD) from being beaten and battered by the Toyota Supra.



But Like I said, I agree to be fair the Supra against it's year would be ideal. And test's along with mine shows it's a faster car in all aspects. And it's ahead of it's time for sure. In order to give it a real competition against the GTR's is against 2000 models and up. That's with me racing results may differ with other's depending on driver skill but I did race against GTR's finest (DE) reults are in but the driver I guess doesn't want to give it a shot. So I'm not going to touch those Hot laps of the Supra untill I get another challenge.




So far 10 lap Tuning.

GTR NUR Settings:
Spring Rate: 8.2 / 7.4 ------- Supra RZ: 7.9 / 7.1
Ride Hight: 98 / 100
Shock Absr: 5 / 5
Camber: 3.6 / 2.1
Toe: 2 / 3
Stabilizers: 4 / 5

 

[Kent]

You know what I'd like to see... This thread go from being just a Supra Skyline thing to suddenly having one other car tested- the Vette Z06 C5.

Maybe it's wrong but I feel like the Supra is a Japanese Vette and wouldn't it be nice to see how the real thing stacks up?
Ok, maybe that's a bit off base but it does make me wonder.
Would another FR from a generation more similar to the R34 make better competition?
We know how the Supra stacks up but what about the C5, NSX-R, RX7 (FD), Evo 8 MR, and Sti C?
Those would all be great comparison challenges.
Probably best for another thread though... Although, with a slight change of thread name/ subject we could easily see if the Skyline's 4wd system is fast enough to make it the best in the game (compared to other normal street cars).

What do you all think?
Will a Z06 C5 be able to beat the Skyline? I'm going to check it out but my times are all horrible now that I'm using the roof camera.
So, maybe driving feel will be the basis of my evaluation.

Any way, until I've got some new info...
-
Btw, sonzilla... Rep+ for you. Quality posts all the way buddy. 👍

 

[Sonzilla]

Hmm that's sounds nice maybe one of the Vipers or a German vehicle and call it "Which one is faster C5 vette or GTR" etc.. lol

Damn I have to check that out later when I get back from Class.

 

[Kent]

I think that we should just continue the GTR vs The World discussion right here and I can re-name the thread "Skyline GT-R .vs. The World."
I mean, we're beating the subject to death with just the Supra, but the Skyline's potential is showing through enough that it has envoked passion for the game (in me).

So testing most of the gt cars against the Skyline seems reasonable to me. I've just finished with the Vette Z06. Sadly, it only runs up to 740hp so top speed is a bit on the weak side.
However, the final lap time, using my new roof cam view, was 7'09.6. I highlight that camera issue because until just last week I have always run on the behind "kiddie" car view.
The game looks so much better and gives such a great sense of racing cars. I am to the point of enjoying the game at the cost of being slower just because of the Roof Camera View.

That said, back in the day when I was running "fast"... The Vette can break 6'00.000. It just needs an awesome lap with a very well tuned Z06.
I may work on that more but for right now I've got other cars in mind (the NSX-R as one among many).

Back later, till then,
-
Edit:
Tested the NSX-R '02 and that's not gonna make the grade in this comparison. Now with a 500HP cap I think it may be one of the fastest in the game, but in a unlimited Skyline based challenge...
Still a fast car, just not fast enough to beat a 860HP Supra, 740HP Vette, or ??? Skyline.

 

[ka24de-t]

first of all this thread is one of the biggest and one interesting topic

The supra is normally better in real life because :

- It has good pottential not saying the gt34 doesn't
- It will beat almost everything on the street with 40+ psi of boost
- Its heavy but just the right wheight for 1000+ rwhp
- The market is very good here in america, good parts, fairly inexpensive
- It's price is alright for the potential you get with the car

 

[Leonidae]

Kent, I think that M3 could be a good opposition when going stock against stock. and then, maybe RUF RGT? and IMO, vette is bit out of the chart, because it's engine charasteristics aren't so good at the ring. with all that low down grunt it's either spin tyres or be out of powerband and be less eager than usual. and then, it also needs some pretty wild settings in order to make it turn, be it slow hairpin or fast chicane.

 

[Kent]

Kent, I think that M3 could be a good opposition when going stock against stock. and then, maybe RUF RGT? and IMO, vette is bit out of the chart, because it's engine charasteristics aren't so good at the ring. with all that low down grunt it's either spin tyres or be out of powerband and be less eager than usual. and then, it also needs some pretty wild settings in order to make it turn, be it slow hairpin or fast chicane.

I completely disagree.
Stock to stock, the Vette Z06 dogs the Skyline easily. I'm sure of that for a fact. Modified is a different story though... The Skyline's HP is so high that the Vette's max tune of 740HP isn't enough.
That said, I think you're wrong about the Vette in almost every way you mentioned. It handles well, turns well, has a kick-butt engine, and doesn't spin tires even half as much as the Supra.
Did you test or guess?
Sounds to me like you guessed about it based on common stereotypes. I say that primarily because you said the Vette's engine doesn't work well at the Ring!? Craziness right there... Craziness! The Vette's engine runs the Ring very well (just as the Vette does in general).

Here's a nice little leaderboard based on N2 tires and completely stock vehicles. Although I don't race this Spotty anymore, I do see it as a great refference. No oil changes and no modifications at all... The Skyline's don't seem to get under 8'00.000 where-as the Vette easily pounds it in right down to 7'50 and less.
Leaderboard found in post #1 right here!

So with that said, I think PD went out of their way to make sure the Skyline could be tuned better than most of the cars in the game. At that max tune level it seems unbeatable. Anywhere else and it seems to just fit in with the pack, often to be not even as fast as many other cars. Then at dead-stock it seems to fall behind most of the "good" sports cars in the game.

In any case, I'd go try the Vette for yourself Leondae. 👍
It is much faster and a much better handling car than you think.

 

[Leonidae]

Sorry, I prefer C4 ZR-1 to C5 Z06. and I didn't guess. I've tried C5 multiple times, and despite having all that power, the way it brings it out is too odd for my taste. and on the Ring, I admit that it's faster. it's the straight line speed that works for 'vette there.

 

[Sonzilla]

Wow I'm also very surprised by Leonidae comment. The C5 is one of my top 10 handling cars. Maxed out this car doesn't need TCS at all it's that good. With a couple of laps around the ring it was by far an amazing handling car. I guess you have a totally different way in characterizing handling.
With a few laps in the C5 I'm constantly running 6.11's.I had the cleanest laps along with the NSX and Rx7. With only 740hp I think that's one hell of a time. Give it 140hp more with a 220-230mph top speed and a dip under 6min would be cake.

I also tried the Bathurst RX7 6.15's Nice car but lacks HP. The Honda NSX LM Road Car was perfect (really needs softing up) but to much boost lag. Maybe if I mess with the gearing I could remedy some of it and dip below 6.10. Edit: Stage 3 turbo is perfect but stage 4 is just ridiculous maybe I could give it so more time.

The 98 VR4 917hp ran 6.14's was a handful but with proper tuning I think it should dip in the single digits.It has amazing braking power but lacks good weight balance thus getting the handling right is pretty tough. I'm very confident that this car should run a 6.05.xxx. Or I may be over my head.lol


And about the RUF I yet to try it but I know it's also going to be a handful.
And what about the Audi Le Mans Quattro?

 

[Kent]

Sorry, I prefer C4 ZR-1 to C5 Z06. and I didn't guess. I've tried C5 multiple times, and despite having all that power, the way it brings it out is too odd for my taste. and on the Ring, I admit that it's faster. it's the straight line speed that works for 'vette there.

...Well, I can't speak for the C4, but I can speak for the C5 Z06 and once again I disagree with you.
You speak of how the power is brought out and I'm in awe... What is so odd? Maybe not spinning wheels like a Supra?

What I would like here in this situation is to hear more specifically what it is with the Vette's power delivery that you don't like.
I just don't see how you can dislike the great torque and grip of the Vette (especially when we are addressing it as competition to the Skyline as a substitute for the Supra!)
So what exactly do you not like about the power of the Vette?

About the handling of the Vette...
If you think it handles poorly, fine.
However, I believe you couldn't be further from the truth even if you tried to lie about your experiences.
(of course, do you have problems with understeer in cars often?)

I agree with Sonzilla- the Z06 handles well and is a top-notch car all around.
Also, just like Sonzilla, I am confused by your comments leon, as they really do not seem to fit with anything I've experienced.

A parting thought...
Many people thought the SLR was an understeering beast when I first started racing it in the N2 ring thread but by the end of it everyone was asking how it could beat the Ford GT and Zonda 7.3.

 

[Leonidae]

it's a matter of taste. i just don't like the thought of big engine in the front end. and vette has plenty of low end grunt, but it's not as peaky as supra. and in the upper end it feels asthmatic. it's not meant to rev, and revving is what i expect from NA engine. Sure, it might handle better than ZR-1, but I prefer ZR-1 because it has power there where it belongs in NA engine, somewhere after 4-5k rpms.

 

[Kent]

it's a matter of taste. i just don't like the thought of big engine in the front end. and vette has plenty of low end grunt, but it's not as peaky as supra. and in the upper end it feels asthmatic. it's not meant to rev, and revving is what i expect from NA engine. Sure, it might handle better than ZR-1, but I prefer ZR-1 because it has power there where it belongs in NA engine, somewhere after 4-5k rpms.

If I could use the "rolleyes" smilely 100 times in a row, it would be right now.
With this being the direction of the thread I'm out of here.
So until next time,
-
PS. Looks to me like someone just wants to knock the C5 Z06. 👎

 

[4DSC]

I don't know.. Im currently testing in the 500hp category but everything else max tuned, and the Evo RS is destroying everything I throw at it! My Skyline is too heavy to even come close! I dropped the Evo's weight to damn near race car status at 1122 kilos..

 

[Kent]

I don't know.. Im currently testing in the 500hp category but everything else max tuned, and the Evo RS is destroying everything I throw at it! My Skyline is too heavy to even come close! I dropped the Evo's weight to damn near race car status at 1122 kilos..

I bet the '02 NSX-R can take the Evo on any "long" course.
Tsukuba will be the kind of track where the Evo wins (I think) but the Ring seems to me like an NSX track.
500hp and 1050kg, the NSX is going to have a fair shot in the 500hp category regardless of the competition. 👍

Who knows though, sometimes the certain cars work better with certain drivers.

 

[4DSC]

I bet the '02 NSX-R can take the Evo on any "long" course.
Tsukuba will be the kind of track where the Evo wins (I think) but the Ring seems to me like an NSX track.
500hp and 1050kg, the NSX is going to have a fair shot in the 500hp category regardless of the competition. 👍

Who knows though, sometimes the certain cars work better with certain drivers.

Wow, I didn't know it can go that light
Definatly gotta try that one
But yeah, the Evo is really good in the tight courses with it's powerful AWD out of corner take outs. Of course I had to fine tune the F/R diff to get the most out of it

 

[HYBRIDLVR]

first of all this thread is one of the biggest and one interesting topic

The supra is normally better in real life because :

- It has good pottential not saying the gt34 doesn't
- It will beat almost everything on the street with 40+ psi of boost
- Its heavy but just the right wheight for 1000+ rwhp
- The market is very good here in america, good parts, fairly inexpensive
- It's price is alright for the potential you get with the car

40 Pounds of Boost, Yea right! I hope your talking about the Older supras because the majority of newer ones are in the junkyards awaiting new engines! Toyota had a big problem with keeping the headgaskets on at 18 pounds of boost! The last few runs of supras came with plenty of problems under the hood and a True skyline is far out of a supras league, The supra is better compared to a Zcar, A Twinn turbo Skyline with any mods will smoke a large amout of the car market..

 

[4DSC]

40 Pounds of Boost, Yea right! I hope your talking about the Older supras because the majority of newer ones are in the junkyards awaiting new engines! Toyota had a big problem with keeping the headgaskets on at 18 pounds of boost! The last few runs of supras came with plenty of problems under the hood and a True skyline is far out of a supras league, The supra is better compared to a Zcar, A Twinn turbo Skyline with any mods will smoke a large amout of the car market..

I would love to agree, but your just completely wrong. First off, the headgasket problem was on the OLDER Supras, not the latest 2JZ.. This engine is bulletproof, and alot of times it's been proven it can handle just as much if not more power then the Skyline. The Z engine is also a tough one, but you don't see them running as high as the Supras without more internal work. And thats the old Z.. I don't know about how well the new Z's alloy VQ can stand up to 600+ on a stock bottom.

Edit: Oh and the newer Supras are far from the Junkyard.. They are holding their value as if they were a brand new car on the used car market.

 

[rob 2fast4u]

40 Pounds of Boost, Yea right! I hope your talking about the Older supras because the majority of newer ones are in the junkyards awaiting new engines! Toyota had a big problem with keeping the headgaskets on at 18 pounds of boost! The last few runs of supras came with plenty of problems under the hood and a True skyline is far out of a supras league, The supra is better compared to a Zcar, A Twinn turbo Skyline with any mods will smoke a large amout of the car market..

who is this guy? you should really search and see what there are capable of.
the 2JZ GTE can withstand 30psi on the stock block, piston, crank, rods, bearings...

oh and just for some fact :
- 19psi, and pump gas = 500 - 680 Rear wheel hp
- 25psi, and 100oct = around 700 - 750 rwhp
- 30psi, and 116oct = 800+ rwhp
do I need to keep going ?

 

[HONDATYPER]

40 Pounds of Boost, Yea right! I hope your talking about the Older supras because the majority of newer ones are in the junkyards awaiting new engines! Toyota had a big problem with keeping the headgaskets on at 18 pounds of boost! The last few runs of supras came with plenty of problems under the hood and a True skyline is far out of a supras league, The supra is better compared to a Zcar, A Twinn turbo Skyline with any mods will smoke a large amout of the car market..

Its the older supras that cannot handle the pressure. All the new ones can be built to handle 40+psi. Have you seen Ryan Woon's supra? It runs on 42psi and ran with the same engine numerous times including a 8.62 sec. quarter mile. Beat that skylines.

 

[HYBRIDLVR]

I stand corrected, I had no idea 40lbs of boost would hold in a toyota, That's some serious boost to say the least! I saw some YouTube videos of one and could not believe it, My Badd fellows!--)

 

[Kent]

The faster driver will create the faster car.
Both the Skyline and Supra are great cars, take your choice and do your best. 👍

That said, this has gone on long enough.

Thread closed.