Which is Faster Supra or skyline..??

[Leonidae]

Kent, you can get 911bhp and more torque from Nur if you use original turbo. and like I said, that car has been refined in Nurb, just like Z-tune.

 

[4DSC]

Lol yea in the game but in real life the supra and skyline are slow stock.

In the game I've hit 12.9 and and in real life everybody knows it can do the same.

If the RB26DETT and 2JZ-GTE that propel the Skyline and Supra are slow, according to you, what does that make the SR20DET you so proudly are representing?

 

[Kent]

Well, regarding stock times...
I've just started running my stock Supra on S3 tires with 330hp (oil change on a 20,000+ mile car).

To touch on what 4DSC mentioned, I am sure 7'40 is possible. In fact, I only ran 2 laps and brought my time down to 7'41.0??
With a bit more time I am confident that 7'38 is within my reach (probably lower).

As for the Skylines... I'm not sure. I know the R34 can beat the Supra but the R33 is going to struggle with that (especially stock). The R32 is out of my realm to some extent (I just don't drive the R32 often). As for the R33 though, I find it to have more understeer than the R34 and less power so I can't see it running faster than the Supra.

In any case, once I've gone below 7'40 in the Supra I will start with the R33 V-spec. I know that seems odd but I'm starting to feel like comparing the R34 and Supra is an invalid comparo. The R34 a totally new generation with models refined over years running into the 21st century. The R33 on the other hand is from the same year built with the Supra as competition in the market (at that time).

Now, if I had a 2002 RZ with all the advances I would expect from 5 years of refinement, then maybe the R34 .vs. RZ would be more valid. However, I don't have an '02 Supra and so, the '97 R33 will be the focus of my immediate comparisons.
Plus, I've already done a ton of R34 .vs. Supra comparisons and it has become clear to me that the R34 is faster than the Supra RZ- that's the bottom line too.

Back later with a Supra time and hopefully a R33 time.

 

[Dark Elite]

well, if I don't recall wrong, DE could drive R34 around the 'ring in 6'02.xxx. maybe,when he returns, he could check that one.

That's correct, 6'02.xxx on R3s with Stage 4 turbo. I can do it again for a screenshot if anyone wants?

DE

 

[Kent]

That's correct, 6'02.xxx on R3s with Stage 4 turbo. I can do it again for a screenshot if anyone wants?

DE

That's not needed. Don't be offended, I wasn't trying to call you out. It didn't even feel like I was since I posted faster times and said even faster times were possible.
Point is, I have no doubt you drove a 6'02.

For now though, I'm sure the R34 is faster than the RZ.
Not the R33 though, hence, I'm running a stock R33 in a few minutes.
I've got some plans for this thread.
Does anyone have a real interest in this? If anyone else really wants to stop the back and forth and start ending the discussion- PM me.
Later.

 

[Leonidae]

why to end this discussion when there's gazillion FnF fans who will defend their favourite cars and create multiple useless threads if this one is closed? let it roll, Kent.. and admit that you're hooked to the magic of ATTESA-ETS!

 

[4DSC]

To touch on what 4DSC mentioned, I am sure 7'40 is possible. In fact, I only ran 2 laps and brought my time down to 7'41.0??
With a bit more time I am confident that 7'38 is within my reach (probably lower).

I really don't see how I made that many mistakes for you to be able to get a full 5 seconds or more on me.. I was nearly perfect at 7:42.. How much more room is there for refinement? You must be on a totally different level. Are you setting these in simulation mode? Might that cause a slight difference from the arcade runs Im doing?

I also find it interesting that racing drivers testing these cars, have never actually gotten even close to the times we are posting in the game.

The R34 a totally new generation with models refined over years running into the 21st century. The R33 on the other hand is from the same year built with the Supra as competition in the market (at that time).

Not entirely.. The Skylines technology hasn't changed much since the 80's..

"The technology of the R32 GT-R only saw minor improvements through the R33 and R34 generations, yet it is still considered to be "high-tech" today - this is Nissan's mid-eighties technology."

http://igorsushko.com/ <--(Currently racing the first Skyline I believe in the US on SPEEDGT)

Now, if I had a 2002 RZ with all the advances I would expect from 5 years of refinement, then maybe the R34 .vs. RZ would be more valid.

Isn't there a 99' R34 GTR in the game? Anyway, what advacements have been made to the Supra since they stopped making them in the US?

 

[Kent]

I really don't see how I made that many mistakes for you to be able to get a full 5 seconds or more on me.. I was nearly perfect at 7:42.. How much more room is there for refinement? You must be on a totally different level. Are you setting these in simulation mode? Might that cause a slight difference from the arcade runs Im doing?

That could be part of it (arcade mode isn't the same as gt mode simply by name if nothing else and I'm sad to hear you've been using one instead of the other).
But also, don't over look the fact that I do race the Ring a lot. Go check out the gtrp.de. I've got plenty of times up there and many of them are with racers that are way faster than myself on every other track.
So yes, I am sure there is plenty of room to increase speed and I know you didn't have that lap perfect (although it may have felt like it).
(if you're really interested in my Ring runnings check out my sig under "My Green Heaven")

I also find it interesting that racing drivers testing these cars, have never actually gotten even close to the times we are posting in the game.

Yup, I've been there too. 👍
I used to run completely stock cars on N2 tires around the Ring and found that the game, no matter what any one says, does not reproduce real life using any tires (N2 or otherwise).

Not entirely.. The Skylines technology hasn't changed much since the 80's..

Actually, if you read my statement, there is nothing to debate.
The R33 was made as a generation that ran during the same time as the Supra. However, the R34 runs straight up into and past 2000.
That's all I said... But you missed the point any way! It's about lap times and there, regardless of what differences are or are not there, the R34 is faster by a considerable margin.

Isn't there a 99' R34 GTR in the game? Anyway, what advacements have been made to the Supra since they stopped making them in the US?

They do have a '99 GTR and it would be a much better comparison. However, what I should have said was 2003 model Supra as there was no 2003 Supra (but there was a 2002 and sadly it is just the same as the '97 RZ we all know).

Kind of a shame that the Supra RZ '97 model actually ran from mid/early '90s all the way up to 2002 and yet in GT4 all we can get is a used '97.

 

[4DSC]

That could be part of it (arcade mode isn't the same as gt mode simply by name if nothing else and I'm sad to hear you've been using one instead of the other).
But also, don't over look the fact that I do race the Ring a lot. Go check out the gtrp.de. I've got plenty of times up there and many of them are with racers that are way faster than myself on every other track.
So yes, I am sure there is plenty of room to increase speed and I know you didn't have that lap perfect (although it may have felt like it).
(if you're really interested in my Ring runnings check out my sig under "My Green Heaven")

Really? Whats the problem with setting lap times in arcade? Im still using the S3 tires I would be using in GT mode.. Im doing time trial though. I hope you didn't think I was setting it with other cars on the map.

And with all do respect, I've been racing at the Ring for years since I think it made it's debut in PGR2(I think?), and once GT4 came out, every other day sees a lap or 2 from me. I actually think I spent more time in arcade trying to set perfect laptimes rather then actually playing GT mode It wasn't until I got that gold a few weeks back in S class lisence for the Ring that I actually realized the mistakes I was doing, which is why Im quite confident in myself nowadays.

Yup, I've been there too. 👍
I used to run completely stock cars on N2 tires around the Ring and found that the game, no matter what any one says, does not reproduce real life using any tires (N2 or otherwise).

Aren't N2 tires for comfort or something like that? Don't know if you should have been getting real life times with them.

Actually, if you read my statement, there is nothing to debate. The R33 was made as a generation that ran during the same time as the Supra. However, the R34 runs straight up into and past 2000.
That's all I said... But you missed the point any way! It's about lap times and there, regardless of what differences are or are not there, the R34 is faster by a considerable margin.

What I was trying to get at was, the Skyline is pretty much the same in R33 and R34 form. Just feels fat compared to the R34, and if since there was a 2000+ Supra, and its exactly the same as the 97's, then it actually can and should compete with the 99-03 R34 Base GTR.... So thats it right? Your putting the discussion to an end since the R34 is considerably faster? I hope you used the base 99' GTR

They do have a '99 GTR and it would be a much better comparison. However, what I should have said was 2003 model Supra as there was no 2003 Supra (but there was a 2002 and sadly it is just the same as the '97 RZ we all know).

I think they made a few cosmetic changes

Kind of a shame that the Supra RZ '97 model actually ran from mid/early '90s all the way up to 2002 and yet in GT4 all we can get is a used '97.

Yeah, I know.. I almost completely forgot they still made them elsewhere in the world. Weird that GT didn't add them, and made you get the RZ used. Almost as weird as them never adding a Maxima

 

[Kent]

Really? Whats the problem with setting lap times in arcade? Im still using the S3 tires I would be using in GT mode.. Im doing time trial though. I hope you didn't think I was setting it with other cars on the map.

No problem but when you do a comparison it's best to have all variables reduced to only what is necessary. I can't say there is a difference between stock gt and stock arc but you never know- hence my concern.

And with all do respect, I've been racing at the Ring for years since I think it made it's debut in PGR2(I think?), and once GT4 came out, every other day sees a lap or 2 from me. I actually think I spent more time in arcade trying to set perfect laptimes rather then actually playing GT mode It wasn't until I got that gold a few weeks back in S class lisence for the Ring that I actually realized the mistakes I was doing, which is why Im quite confident in myself nowadays.

No disrespect made.
None the less, that doesn't change the fact that your lap was passed up and has atleast a bit of time left to shave off. Fact is, with what you are saying above, I believe it is fair to say we both spend a good bit of time on the Ring.

The only reason I bring that up is because I'm not a very fast driver for the most part but on the Ring I manage to do a little bit better... Say on every other course in the game I am a Level 5 racer (10 being the best), on the Ring I'm more like a 7.
(there abouts since I really don't know but my times are all over so other people can be the judge)

Aren't N2 tires for comfort or something like that? Don't know if you should have been getting real life times with them.

Indeed they are labeled as comfort tires in the game. However, many a fanboy will swear by the accuracy of the N2 compared to real life. Problem is, when I was running a Z06 (C5) down to right around 7'50 using those N2s it was obvious they were not accurate (as in real life the C5 did something like 8'15 to 8'20 on the Ring).

What I was trying to get at was, the Skyline is pretty much the same in R33 and R34 form. Just feels fat compared to the R34, and if since there was a 2000+ Supra, and its exactly the same as the 97's, then it actually can and should compete with the 99-03 R34 Base GTR.... So thats it right? Your putting the discussion to an end since the R34 is considerably faster? I hope you used the base 99' GTR

Take note of the fact that I haven't ended this and I only said "PM me if you are serious about this."
That's my way of saying, hey I want to do some serious testing with the R32, R33, and R34 compared to the Supra (testing at different tuning for all of them).
"Putting this to an end" because the R34 is faster? I don't recall saying that. Although, I do recall saying the R34 was faster... However, the context of that is what I can't remember.

Chances are, the R34 .vs. Supra comparison is going to change with tuning. In stock form on S3 tires I bet it's a rather close race. Tuned to about 500hp on S3 tires is where the Skyline takes the advantage. Tuned to the max with R3 tires, I believe the R34 is faster but I haven't tested that properly since it was a 900+hp Nur R34 I tested with against my 859hp RZ.

I imagine a used GTR '99 with less hp than the Nur wouldn't beat the RZ as easily as the Nur did.

Yeah, I know.. I almost completely forgot they still made them elsewhere in the world. Weird that GT didn't add them, and made you get the RZ used. Almost as weird as them never adding a Maxima

And yes, it is a shame you can't get a new RZ.

 

[Greycap]

And yes, it is a shame you can't get a new RZ.

Nope, you can't get a brand new one but would a 6.2 mile/10 km used one do? And I know that you don't have it in the USA but we have testers in Europe too that can probably put it through its paces to see how it stands against the Skyline. 👍

- R -

 

[4DSC]

No problem but when you do a comparison it's best to have all variables reduced to only what is necessary. I can't say there is a difference between stock gt and stock arc but you never know- hence my concern.

I guess I need to start hanging out at the GT mode Ring.. But doesn't mileage come into play when in GT mode? At arcade, they all start from scratch.. Just a thought.

Indeed they are labeled as comfort tires in the game. However, many a fanboy will swear by the accuracy of the N2 compared to real life. Problem is, when I was running a Z06 (C5) down to right around 7'50 using those N2s it was obvious they were not accurate (as in real life the C5 did something like 8'15 to 8'20 on the Ring).

That might be due to what Jeremy Clarkson said in his review of real life to GT4.. Im sure all of you have seen that little peice from Top Gear. We in the game drive taking many chances(since we know if we crash, we may even set a faster lap time lol), making us real race car drivers, but in real life, even pro drivers might not really take it to such a limit. Or maybe it may be due to it just being a
game

Take note of the fact that I haven't ended this and I only said "PM me if you are serious about this."
That's my way of saying, hey I want to do some serious testing with the R32, R33, and R34 compared to the Supra (testing at different tuning for all of them).
"Putting this to an end" because the R34 is faster? I don't recall saying that. Although, I do recall saying the R34 was faster... However, the context of that is what I can't remember.

Oh no, I was just asking since it seems there really isn't much else to discuss. As if we didn't know the R34 owns from the start Oh and btw, I think the R32 would be able to take the RZ if it had a bit more power, since it doesn't understeer like the R33. Thats all I see missing from that car.

Chances are, the R34 .vs. Supra comparison is going to change with tuning. In stock form on S3 tires I bet it's a rather close race. Tuned to about 500hp on S3 tires is where the Skyline takes the advantage. Tuned to the max with R3 tires, I believe the R34 is faster but I haven't tested that properly since it was a 900+hp Nur R34 I tested with against my 859hp RZ.

Hands down the R34 will and should take it all.. Don't know about real life, but in the game, thats how it goes down. The Supra just isn't as stable and nimble as the R34 IMO. Keeping that rear end in control constantly throws a bunch more variables into the equation.

 

[Dark Elite]

That's not needed. Don't be offended, I wasn't trying to call you out. It didn't even feel like I was since I posted faster times and said even faster times were possible.
Point is, I have no doubt you drove a 6'02.

I know, I was just posting that in case anyone else had any doubts

I will just read the Nordschleife laptime debates for now.

DE

 

[SUROKIA]

so whats the fastest when tuned top speed wise i think its the supra cos it is easier to get 400 out of it with out nos than the gtr

 

[Dark Elite]

Click Here.
This has been discussed (and actually linked to) here before, the Skyline GT-R34 is considerably faster when fully tuned for top speed.

You know, I was hoping this thread was dead and buried, with or without an answer - it has all the signs of degenerating into a massive flame war.

DE

 

[SUROKIA]

this is without wheelie and all i hope for all those times

 

[Leonidae]

yes, all those speeds have been achieved without a wheelie.

 

[Dark Elite]

Of course, that is a respected and well-regulated Club, is it not?

DE

 

[Leonidae]

I'd almost dare to speak about dictatorship, but I'll stay quiet or the men in black will get me.

 

[Sonzilla]

Well I'm back from vacation, I wanted to post this before I left but here it is.


1997 Supra RZ Fully Tuned on R3 Tires.
@
Circuit De Le Sarthe I

Click Here for the Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq-G4pGtTEc


Personal Best 3:25:864

Feel free to try out my settings, maybe I can get more out of it.

Settings

Spring Rate: 9.8 / 7.6
Ride Hight: 87 / 88
Shock Absr: 5 / 4
Camber: 2.8 / 0.8
Toe: 0 / 2
Stabilizers: 3 / 4

Gearing
1st: 3.018
2nd: 1.945
3rd: 1.375
4th: 1.032
5th: 0.817
6th: 0.678
Final: 3.266

Auto: 20

TCS: 2

Break Contr: 4 / 5

LSD
Initial: 7
Acc: 45
Dec: 35

Downforce: 30 / 30


1997 Supra RZ Fully Tuned on R3 Tires.
@
Midfield Raceway Forward

Personal Best 1:02:811

Click Here for the Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK3mhRYCScM


Settings

Spring Rate: 10.9 / 8.6
Ride Hight: 87 / 88
Shock Absr: 5 / 4
Camber: 3.2 / 1.2
Toe: 0 / 2
Stabilizers: 3 / 4

Gearing
1st: 3.102
2nd: 2.028
3rd: 1.455
4th: 1.097
5th: 0.869
6th: 0.723
Final: 3.266

Auto: 17

TCS: 2

Break Contr: 4 / 5

LSD
Initial: 7
Acc: 50
Dec: 35

Downforce: 30 / 30


DE have you improved your times latley?

 

[Dark Elite]

DE have you improved your times latley?

No, because you disappeared off the face of the earth with no prior explanation

Anyway.. I think this thread is now only coughing up blood, and we should stop the random CPR attacks to get it going again - it has been worn out, and conclusions made.

DE

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Amen.

 

[ChromeBallz]

Handling wise the Skyline is much better, like Jeremy Clarkson did, 1 finger powersliding with the R34 👍

He did that with the Holden Monaro i think - there has never been a skyline on at least the new top gear formula. What are you referring to exactly?

 

[Sonzilla]

No, because you disappeared off the face of the earth with no prior explanation

Anyway.. I think this thread is now only coughing up blood, and we should stop the random CPR attacks to get it going again - it has been worn out, and conclusions made.

DE

Ahh man I'm sorry I didn't know you were actually waiting for me. Sorry for not informing you about my disappearance .
I've read all the way from my last post and it's full of speculations and attacks. So I completly understand where your coming from. So you never made any attempt to provide further information regarding your runs?
I thought we were here to compare and further figure out in detail what each of these fully tuned beast's had to offer.

It's very easy now and days to make a video just as I did and simply post it.

So my question to you is can you provide a video?


It's only been 3.5 weeks since my last post not long at all if you ask me.
I know your a judge in the WTS and you wait weeks for settings and results. So I know your a well patient man. Please don't feel like it's an attack but I'm just shocked that nothing has became about this since I was gone.


I guess now It's up to you. I'm back and dieng to see how you ran that time at Le Sarthe and Midfield. Other than that obviously pictures are not the best of proof but hey it's up to you.

With valid information I hope this thread may continue or I may be to late. lol








My Fully Tuned Supra RZ finally beats Dark Elite's Best Fully tuned GTR at a highly respected and difficult tracks such as Le Sarthe & Midfield. 👍

A Video Clip of Each of My Runs.
Settings provided on page 22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq-G4pGtTEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK3mhRYCScM



I'm am very convinced that 1. My driving or 2. my setup is capable of beating the fastest tuned Skyline GTR.

 

[Jay]

He did that with the Holden Monaro i think - there has never been a skyline on at least the new top gear formula. What are you referring to exactly?

Clarkson did test the R34 Skyline GTR on Top gear years ago when the R34 had its limited sales run in the UK. The video has been floating around the internet, I'm sure a search would find it on google video or youtube.

 

[un_peacekeeper]

Clarkson did test the R34 Skyline GTR on Top gear years ago when the R34 had its limited sales run in the UK. The video has been floating around the internet, I'm sure a search would find it on google video or youtube.

I said many times throughout the forum already, lol. IT'S AN EVO VIII.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8haGli-z9g
(1:40 - 1:55) - but the whole thing is nice to watch.

 

[ChromeBallz]

I said many times throughout the forum already, lol. IT'S AN EVO VIII.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8haGli-z9g
(1:40 - 1:55) - but the whole thing is nice to watch.

I've looked up the episode from that - it's quite recent though (2004). Viper, do you mean from the top gear before Hammond and May joined?

 

[Leonidae]

I have Three episodes where Clarkson tests GT-R's. first one is R32 GT-R in his own vid from early 90's, and the second is around that time when R34 came to UK. in the third he tests Jun's 1000bhp yellow monster.

and here's the link to the R34 one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJgJHmEPC7A

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Woah, that's old! Did they ever test a Supra?

 

[Jay]

I said many times throughout the forum already, lol. IT'S AN EVO VIII.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8haGli-z9g
(1:40 - 1:55) - but the whole thing is nice to watch.

What has the FQ400 got to do with the R34 Skyline GTR top gear video I was talking about?

I never said anything about the one fingered slides so I don't know why you quoted me.

Viper, do you mean from the top gear before Hammond and May joined?

Yep, the video Leonidae linked

here

Woah, that's old! Did they ever test a Supra?

Yep Top gear did also test the Supra, but that was way back around 1993.