which is the most civilsed nation on earth?
- Thread starter ZAGGIN
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a6m5, I'm on board, and Famine, I disagree. I have ALWAYS been VERY upset by people that take advantage of others who are helpless to do anything about it. And molestors always have bothered me that much more. But now, being a new dad, it brings a kind of primal rage I've never imagined. The thought of someone doing ANYTHING to my sweet little baby girl makes my blood boil and my vision cloud over in a red haze. I would have NO problem removing their skin one square inch at a time, cauterizing each square inch to prevent them from bleeding to death. Being cowards in the first place, I believe this kind of punishment would deterr a large portion of the molesters out there. Leaving just enough to keep making examples of.
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- Wangan01
- Wangan01
skicrush
Well if somebody would harm your baby you wouldn't be objective anymore...
Making examples is useless in the case of psychatric criminals...
I understand your point, but nevertheless personal revenge can not be the solution for a nation...
I mean think about it, there are people out there who would kill others if they make a scratch in their car or if they've stolen their purse... or their taxes... you know...
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So, why can't you apply that to drug dealers? Why is it only child molestors?
The problem you encounter is where you draw the line. As I said earlier, a man having sex with a 15 year old, 364 day girl who has agreed to it is STILL a child molestor despite there being "no crime committed" (a girl under 16 cannot, legally, give consent. Any penetrative sex with an underage girl is Statutory Rape - and sex offence against a child). Would you rip him a new one? How about the rapist who attacks a 16 year, 0-day girl? That's rape, but not a sex offence against a child. So on the one hand you have a harmless man in a loving relationship who falls foul of your "flailing to death" idea, but on the other you have a dangerous predatory rapist who doesn't.
Criminal justice is not well-served by gaining revenge on criminals. Justice must be done. Not YOUR justice, but justice.
Other people may HATE drug dealers, after personal experience and wish to do the same to them as you'd wish to do to a child molestor. Or muggers. Or large-scale fraudsters. The family of a murder victim might not think the death penalty good enough and want to stamp on the murderer until he bleeds to death. That's revenge - not criminal justice.
The problem you encounter is where you draw the line. As I said earlier, a man having sex with a 15 year old, 364 day girl who has agreed to it is STILL a child molestor despite there being "no crime committed" (a girl under 16 cannot, legally, give consent. Any penetrative sex with an underage girl is Statutory Rape - and sex offence against a child). Would you rip him a new one? How about the rapist who attacks a 16 year, 0-day girl? That's rape, but not a sex offence against a child. So on the one hand you have a harmless man in a loving relationship who falls foul of your "flailing to death" idea, but on the other you have a dangerous predatory rapist who doesn't.
Criminal justice is not well-served by gaining revenge on criminals. Justice must be done. Not YOUR justice, but justice.
Other people may HATE drug dealers, after personal experience and wish to do the same to them as you'd wish to do to a child molestor. Or muggers. Or large-scale fraudsters. The family of a murder victim might not think the death penalty good enough and want to stamp on the murderer until he bleeds to death. That's revenge - not criminal justice.
You know, a few years back mighty few people stole horses. Why? They hung horse theives. Rape was extremely rare, and child abuse, at least by strangers, was unheard of. Why? Every man in the state would hunt for the offender until they found him. Men could get away with murder. But not this type of crime. I miss those days sometimes. Like when I think about he fact that I'll never be able to let my daughter ride her bike to the park for fear. So, have we made progress in the last 150 years?
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- swift-bass
skicrush
There's a scary point to that. I mean, they hung horse theives, so why not hang car thieves?
Ok, that's a little extreme. But I think that prison for every criminal and every crime just doesn't work. I mean, you look at s computer hacker for instance. He goes and hacks into a bank over state lines(federal offense), pushes some money around and sets up a nice account for himself. He then gets caught and is sent to the same place the child molesters and murder 1 convicts are sent.
Is that cool that a guy that was messing around on a computer not harming anyone, but still breaking the law, has to be in the company of murderers and molesters?
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- GTP_Famine
Just for reference - dead things are hung. Living things are hanged. "They hanged horse thieves", not "They hung horse thieves".
A little nicety of English, but I digress.
Your point isn't terribly valid.
Population was less than 10% globally of what it is now. Crime detection was nearly zero. The crimes you mention still happened, they were just not reported. Summary "Justice" was more bothered about finding a criminal than finding the criminal. Would you honestly prefer to live in 1850s America for the policing?
You won't let your daughter ride her bike to the park out of fear? My God! Do you know just HOW rare the type of crime you're scared of actually IS? 95% of all (reported) child molestation cases are by people the child knows...
Swift - Who isn't the hacker harming by stealing from them?
A little nicety of English, but I digress.
Your point isn't terribly valid.
Population was less than 10% globally of what it is now. Crime detection was nearly zero. The crimes you mention still happened, they were just not reported. Summary "Justice" was more bothered about finding a criminal than finding the criminal. Would you honestly prefer to live in 1850s America for the policing?
You won't let your daughter ride her bike to the park out of fear? My God! Do you know just HOW rare the type of crime you're scared of actually IS? 95% of all (reported) child molestation cases are by people the child knows...
Swift - Who isn't the hacker harming by stealing from them?
- 2,615
- Germany
- Wangan01
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skicrush
Rape was not rare these days, nobody cared...
Statistics say that death penalty has absolutly no influence on crime rates....
Your daughter can not drive her bike to the park for several reasons... there are countries where she could....
As for the reasons... this would lead back to the "civilized" subject... ( Well I guess that sexual perverts are not the only problem in the parks you talked about.... )
You are right--they hanged horse thieves. I honestly don't know what I was thinking--I'm embarassed to have made such a stupid mistake. Which, by the way, I agree with--transportation WAS a matter of life and death in those days. I dont' expect you guys to understand the vast distances we're talking about here, but trust me--you could murder someone by stealing their horse almost as easily as putting a bullet in their brain.
And I'm talking about abductions and such. I think they have gone up as a result of the anonymity that modern society affords and the abscence of adequate penalties. I can handle teaching my children to recognize and report abuse or atempted abuse by an uncle, aunt, or teacher to their parents, but I can't prevent them from disappearing off the sidewalk in front of our house.
And I'm talking about abductions and such. I think they have gone up as a result of the anonymity that modern society affords and the abscence of adequate penalties. I can handle teaching my children to recognize and report abuse or atempted abuse by an uncle, aunt, or teacher to their parents, but I can't prevent them from disappearing off the sidewalk in front of our house.
- 3,425
Yep ....right ..statistics.heheheMax_DC
Statistics say that nine out of ten dentist prefer Crest too.
did you ever wonder why statistics are always used to try to tell you something you may have trouble believing ? And are almost ALWAYS used to try to SELL you something ?
Why would a sane person believe that the threat of death is NOT a deterrent ?
livemusic
Premium
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- livemusic81
As you´ve said, he was breaking the law. If you get caught, you go to jail. It doesn´t matters who´s there, he took the risk.Swift
Your penalty for breaking the law is not abouth which jail you´ll go, or who you´re going to share a cell with. It´s about how many time you´re going to spend in there.
- 1,766
How do you think computer hackers using their skills to commit crimes don't harm anyone? They can ruin entire lives with that, driving people to desperate means like suicide.
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smellysocks12
You guys really took what I said wrong. I'm talking about crimes that DON'T inflict bodily harm on another person. I'm not saying they are correct or shouldn't be crimes or shouldn't be punished. I just believe that they're on a different level then the homicidal maniac and should be treated as such.
Well if you look into the history of any country. You are going to find something bad, thats almost a given.
Only bad thing in Japan's history that I can think of would be World War II. I'm most likely missing something though.
In the time of the samurai, they were a very honour driven people. And still are today, although not to as great of a degree.
Only bad thing in Japan's history that I can think of would be World War II. I'm most likely missing something though.
In the time of the samurai, they were a very honour driven people. And still are today, although not to as great of a degree.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Sounds like you have high regard for my country, I appreciate that.Mista Bob
👍 I know there was an brutal invasion of Korea by Japanese in 16th, 17th century by Toyotomi Hideyoshi, a huge warlord(#1 in Japan at the time). As for the Japanese atrocities in WWII era, let's just say Chinese and Koreans are still upset at us today. They will tell you, Japan is still not sorry for what it's done in WWII, and will not apologize(CNN claims Japanese government apologized 17 times to China). Japanese did try to help out South Korea and China by bringing in their business and investing in them(both financially and technologically) since the end of WWII, but they conveniently do not see that.
Unfortunately, until Japan can resolve some issues with its' neighbors, it can not be considered for "most civilised nation on earth" title IMO.
- 3,425
After carefull consideration and a few Mooseheads I have concluded that Canada is the most civilized nation on EARTH. Whats there not to like about Canada EH ? IMO the US is still very uncivilized in parts..but since I consider that could be a good thing at times... ( I mean how do you kick ass in a civilized fashion ? ) ... its still all good. Now can we invade France ? I hear they found some oil and I only have a 1/4 tank ....
- 1,766
a6m5I have no problem with that!However, when Zaggin started this thread, one of the criteria for the "most civilised" were its' history. Unfortunately, Japan fails in that department.
Not to mention the sick twisted anime porn they make...
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ledhed
I know that statistics are not the ultimate truth, but I give you the facts I know from these figures : Crime rate in the US is high, state to state different of course...The introduction of death penalties ( US or elsewhere ) have not changed crime rates : Why ? Reason No.1 : Many crimes are spontanious... so people don't think a lot about consequences there; reason 2 : Criminals usually think they'll surely get away with their crime, I mean that's why they do it.... who needs money in jail for example...
a6m5I have no problem with that!
Maybe not for "most", but as I said in the first post of this thread : Japan is safe, the community is strong, people are polite, today's politics are not offensive... of course Japan has its dark sides, too, as most nations have....
ledhed
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- a6m5zero
It's because of the sick twisted people like you, who watches them.smellysocks12Not to mention the sick twisted anime porn they make...
Oops. Did I say that, out loud!?
*Darth Vaders music* " .....dark side? "Max_DC
I agree, Max. You look at the current Japanese government, it's almost opposite of the Imperial Japan. Today, role really has reversed. It's the Korean(North and South) and Chinese governments that's taking military actions against Japan, not the other way around, like in the 1930's - 40's. It's funny how they claim Japanese are still not sorry for their actions in WWII, when Japanese are arguably the most peaceful nation in the world today.
Like I said earlier, I'd take Japan out of the race because of it's militant past. However, Japan is sorry and they have paid for their mistake IMO.
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- a6m5zero
Very funny movie! 👍 I swear ledhed should have landed a role in that movie. 👍 👍jpmontoyaI just watched Team America, world police... this reminds me of the end speech for some strange reason.... Funniest speech I can recall in a movie, go see it if you haven't, you'll enjoy.
Unfortunately cant quote any part of it since 98% will be blocked by the swear filter.
- 1,620
Dciks fcuk pussies, but dciks can also fcuk a**-holes!
Yeah this movie was the very first instance I have ever witnessed of Americans being able to laugh at themselves. 👍
I feel very immature for liking it though! How about the sex scene, the spewing scene... the blow job scene... hilarious! Really shocking kinda stuff, amazing it got made in this P.C. world! If it were made with real actors, man it would get the R rating!
Yeah this movie was the very first instance I have ever witnessed of Americans being able to laugh at themselves. 👍
I feel very immature for liking it though! How about the sex scene, the spewing scene... the blow job scene... hilarious! Really shocking kinda stuff, amazing it got made in this P.C. world! If it were made with real actors, man it would get the R rating!
