White Privilege

[Northstar]

Northstar, you are conversating with a biracial kid.

And would you say you've been treated differently by both races or the same? From what I've read biracial kids are more likely to get bullied compared to single race children.

http://www.k12.wa.us/safetycenter/BullyingHarassment/pubdocs/Race-EthnicityResearch.pdf

I'm also interested to see your answer to my first question.

 

[the_boy]

You guys are arguing in circles, looks like everybody would be more chilled out with a joint or an edible.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You guys are arguing in circles, looks like everybody would be more chilled out with a joint or an edible.

It's a forum so most of us are chill and still have the ability to argue decisive subject matter without the need to get high. But if you must don't let our "hostility" stop you from doing something that is off topic.

 

[McLaren]

why so much delusional twisting?

The irony is astounding, but not surprising. You failed to address anything I said. Typical; people who make your silly argument that minorities can't be racist don't want to accept the double standards of it when the argument is presented in a different fashion. You've side-stepped it twice:

I outlined a minority calling another a minority an ethnic slur as racism, and you asked about whites. Irrelevant, the topic is how does "it is impossible for a minority to be racist" play out when 2 minorities are racist towards each other?
I outlined switching your logic to another country where the roles are reversed, and once again, you failed to answer. You attempted to give a statement that it wouldn't matter because they weren't the ones sold into slavery. I didn't realize the N-word is suddenly only applicable to US-born Africans. So, an African immigrant in the US shouldn't be offended then by it? After all, he & his family back home weren't the ones brought here against their will.

But, alas, once I showed you Africans were selling other Africans, now the idea of bringing your argument into another country doesn't matter, the history of slavery doesn't matter, only issues in America matter. That's the only way you can preach white privilege, because white privilege apparently, is something that only exists when you cross the US borders. Is there Asian privilege in Asia? What about Black privilege in Africa? The Middle East?

Or is it just an excuse to make a statement like this?

So does that mean a white person can't be racist if they don't consider themselves a majority?

In my opinion, no.

but to the black racist guy. yes.

The correct answer is: A white person making a racial remark is racist regardless of opinion.

This is where you seem lost on my position. Racism is racism, regardless of social class, demographic status, location, etc. Racism doesn't die at the border of 1 country and come alive in the next. That is however, what the logic behind your argument is presenting. "It is impossible for a minority to be racist" clears me of any racism in another country where a white person would be the minority. That is what Northstar was getting at, and you side-stepped him as well.

 

[Johnnypenso]

And would you say you've been treated differently by both races or the same? From what I've read biracial kids are more likely to get bullied compared to single race children.

http://www.k12.wa.us/safetycenter/BullyingHarassment/pubdocs/Race-EthnicityResearch.pdf

I'm also interested to see your answer to my first question.

Pew has researched multiracial trends quite extensively. Only 4 % see their multiracial background as a disadvantage. 96% say it's either made no difference or it's an advantage. The advantage to disadvantage number is 19 % to 4% which would seem to indicate that people with multiracial heritage, on the whole, view it as a slight to moderate advantage. Perhaps we can start adding multiracial privilege into the conversation .

 

[Racelow]

I don't see bullying as a multiracial problem. but not being fully accepted in a group because of not quite being either or. funny how (racism towards me) whites feel deserving of being first at everything while blacks always tend to scrutinize and pinpoint flaws. when it comes to the 'racist' issues, thats really a white issue. it seems like a really hurtful label so no-one wants to be called "racist". but its the growing pain that comes with being part of the higher echelon per-se. if you label a black person a racist for using a racial slur; they be like 'i can't be a racist because I'm a minority'. they accept that they are no where near the top of the totem pole of being superior; prejudice maybe, but not racist.

But to clear up what I was trying to explain to the other guy is that in rare cases, minorities can be racist too. in the event where they see themselves at the top of the totem pole as being more superior than other races.

 

[Northstar]

I don't see bullying as a multiracial problem. but not being fully accepted in a group because of not quite being either or. funny how (racism towards me) whites feel deserving of being first at everything while blacks always tend to scrutinize and pinpoint flaws. when it comes to the 'racist' issues, thats really a white issue. it seems like a really hurtful label so no-one wants to be called "racist". but its the growing pain that comes with being part of the higher echelon per-se. if you label a black person a racist for using a racial slur; they be like 'i can't be a racist because I'm a minority'. they accept that they are no where near the top of the totem pole of being superior; prejudice maybe, but not racist.

But to clear up what I was trying to explain to the other guy is that in rare cases, minorities can be racist too. in the event where they see themselves at the top of the totem pole as being more superior than other races.

Again, why can black people just decide they are or are not a minority but a white person can't decide whether or not they are a majority?

And you can take this however you want, but I find attitudes like yours to be just as harmful as those held by white supremacists. If we really want change, we need to be willing to look in the mirror and address our own faults as well as those of others. Making it a one way street will never work and only results in a head-on collision when someone does try going the other way.

 

[Racelow]

Again, why can black people just decide they are or are not a minority but a white person can't decide whether or not they are a majority?

And you can take this however you want, but I find attitudes like yours to be just as harmful as those held by white supremacists.

I believe anyone can decide within self to be considered as an equal to all other races. White supremacists are further out on a wing actively seeking to diminish and eradicate other races; you should elaborate and rethink this comparison.

If we really want change, we need to be willing to look in the mirror and address our own faults as well as those of others. Making it a one way street will never work and only results in a head-on collision when someone does try going the other way.

I totally agree with this statement.

 

[Northstar]

I believe anyone can decide within self to be considered as an equal to all other races. White supremacists are further out on a wing actively seeking to diminish and eradicate other races; you should elaborate and rethink this comparison.

So what about a black supremacist that wants to diminish and eradicate other races?

I totally agree with this statement.

Your posts in this thread say otherwise. If you actually agreed you wouldn't be here saying black people are only racist if they don't identify as a minority. I have absolutely no problem condemning white supremacists, if you actually agree with what I said you would be doing the same for black supremacists.

 

[Racelow]

So what about a black supremacist that wants to diminish and eradicate other races?



Your posts in this thread say otherwise. If you actually agreed you wouldn't be here saying black people are only racist if they don't identify as a minority. I have absolutely no problem condemning white supremacists, if you actually agree with what I said you would be doing the same for black supremacists.

You actually seem offended by the topic as if you aim to protect white privilege.

 

[Northstar]

You actually seem offended by the topic as if you aim to protect white privilege.

So are you going to actually answer any of my questions or no?

 

[PocketZeven]

I believe anyone can decide within self to be considered as an equal to all other races. White supremacists are further out on a wing actively seeking to diminish and eradicate other races; you should elaborate and rethink this comparison.



I totally agree with this statement.

The whole concept of races is incorrect. There is only 1 human race. We do have ethnic diversity. The idea there are multiple human races is just not accurate.

 

[McLaren]

I don't see bullying as a multiracial problem. but not being fully accepted in a group because of not quite being either or. funny how (racism towards me) whites feel deserving of being first at everything while blacks always tend to scrutinize and pinpoint flaws.

Ah, so we're making more racial statements I see.

when it comes to the 'racist' issues, thats really a white issue.

Because African Americans certainly haven't shown a concern in other African Americans calling each other the n-word.

it seems like a really hurtful label so no-one wants to be called "racist". but its the growing pain that comes with being part of the higher echelon per-se. if you label a black person a racist for using a racial slur; they be like 'i can't be a racist because I'm a minority'. they accept that they are no where near the top of the totem pole of being superior; prejudice maybe, but not racist.

It seems like you really just want an excuse to make hurtful comments to others.

But to clear up what I was trying to explain to the other guy is that in rare cases, minorities can be racist too. in the event where they see themselves at the top of the totem pole as being more superior than other races.

You're not explaining anything. You're attempting to give yourself a free pass to make racist remarks and fall back on, "I'm a minority, so it's ok if I call others hurtful names". You have dodged being asked how your logic holds up with 2 minority groups calling each other racial remarks or if I go to a country such as China where I "accept that I am no where near the top of the totem pole of being superior" to them in their country and make racist remarks.

You don't want to face the facts that in all things considered, you're the one in this thread making racist statements. The sheer fact that you consider the following:

2 ethnic groups make racial comments. Only 1 group isn't racist if they identify as the minority group.

As being only applicable to African Americans is racist itself.

You have somehow lost the definition of what minority means: "the smaller number or part, especially a number that is less than half the whole number". Minority in relation to race is to define how many of a specific race is in a specific area. Superiority to one another has nothing to do with it; a minority group can be superior to a majority group in situations. Minority is not a race term.

So are you going to actually answer any of my questions or no?

Of course not.

He has shown no interest in seeing the fallacy of his argument when applied to different outcomes because it paints him in the very light he likely feels he can be excluded from. He wants to deflect and act like we're defending white privilege as if we're racists for even questioning his argument. But, this isn't Facebook where you can just call someone a name to get out of a debate. Most members here compile of multiple backgrounds & different countries, so everyone knows better when they see the argument, "it's impossible for a minority to be racist" as lunacy because their country's culture doesn't hand out passes for anyone to make racial remarks based on demographic status. I'm quite positive if a member in Spain saw someone from Sudan or Taiwan calling others racial slurs, it would be deemed racism regardless.

I am curious though do you think Sinterklaas and black Pete is racist?

I apologize for missing this twice.

I don't think it's racist. It's a holiday tradition for another culture, so there's a story to it and the origin of Jan Schenkman's story doesn't seem as if he purposely intended on painting black people as Santa's helpers in the future. From what I'm researching, Black Pete is black because he's from a Muslim country & is nothing more than basically, Saint Nicholas' companion in the original story. Thus, the people there are Saint Nicholas' companions.

But, I do see the controversy. At first impressions, it is an old white man surrounded by black servants, or worse yet, white people portraying black servants. Again, based on its history though, I don't believe there is any ill-will meant by any of those people towards blacks. Black Pete seems more of a revered character with Saint Nicholas & they hold respect for his companionship.

 

[boombastic45]

you forgot to add...
'If a White American calls an African American an n-word, thats a racist remark therefore makes the White a racist'...

I noticed in your comments that you seem to be more concerned with racist remarks coming from non-white citizens of America. absolutely none of those you mentioned are epidemics that ruins the grace and causes great tension in America, but the one I added for you does.

and if you went to Africa as a minority to call all them N-words, it would not cause great tension because they were never stolen brought sold torn from families, forced to mate, beaten and made slaves by your ancestors. keep in mind that here in America, slavery existed far longer than it has been non-existing. If America had to pay back in equal years for this crime to humanity, it would still be approximately 116 years left to go.

I think White privilege is deep in american problems then it spread to other countries that is mostly white. they think they are better but they are not. they are just ordinary people just like everyone else in the world. thats Right Racebo, keep reminding them about the ugly slavery in american history so that they know its not privileged for being white.

 

[mustafur]

You guys are arguing in circles, looks like everybody would be more chilled out with a joint or an edible.

You would be surprised how many of us are probably high when on here.

 

[Turbo]

So what about a black supremacist that wants to diminish and eradicate other races?



Your posts in this thread say otherwise. If you actually agreed you wouldn't be here saying black people are only racist if they don't identify as a minority. I have absolutely no problem condemning white supremacists, if you actually agree with what I said you would be doing the same for black supremacists.

It's irrelevant to bring up black supremacy when one, it can't even exist since African Americans aren't in power. Power is what allowed white supremacist groups to form, as well as have relevance. Two, "black supremacist groups" aren't the dominant racial hate group, white supremacists are. Did black supremacists lynch and kill white people? Nope, just white supremacists. Were there black supremacists at Charlottesville? Try again, just the white ones. Are there black supremacists in congress? Yet again, none, only white supremacists.

By saying "so what about the black ones", all your doing is trying to take the focus off the real issue. White supremacists have damaged the black community far more than whatever your definition of "black supremacists", whether its Black Panthers or BLM protesters will EVER damage the white community.

There will always be extremists regardless of their race, but my point is, it's the white ones who are the biggest threat.

 

[Northstar]

It's irrelevant to bring up black supremacy when one, it can't even exist since African Americans aren't in power.

Sorry kiddo, it may not be widespread or have alot of influence, but it does exist.

Yet again, none, only white supremacists.

Definitely going to need a source on this. And no, despite how big of a jackass he is, Trump is not a white supremacist.

By saying "so what about the black ones", all your doing is trying to take the focus off the real issue. White supremacists have damaged the black community far more than whatever your definition of "black supremacists", whether its Black Panthers or BLM protesters will EVER damage the white community.

There will always be extremists regardless of their race, but my point is, it's the white ones who are the biggest threat.

Extremists in general are the biggest threat whether it's black, white, Muslim, Christian etc... Saying that bringing certain ones up is trying to take the focus off the real issue will solve absolutely nothing and will only prevent any progress from being made. They all need to be addressed even if they aren't as dangerous as others.

I also have to ask, what is the "real issue"? White people are evil? Tall poppy syndrome?

 

[Turbo]

Sorry kiddo, it may not be widespread or have alot of influence, but it does exist.



Definitely going to need a source on this. And no, despite how big of a jackass he is, Trump is not a white supremacist.



Extremists in general are the biggest threat whether it's black, white, Muslim, Christian etc... Saying that bringing certain ones up is trying to take the focus off the real issue will solve absolutely nothing and will only prevent any progress from being made. They all need to be addressed even if they aren't as dangerous as others.

I also have to ask, what is the "real issue"? White people are evil?

So if it's not widespread and doesn't have a lot of influence then why bring it up? Only proves my point that you're just trying to take the attention off white supremacy groups by saying "but... what about the Black ones".

Trump is undoubedtly a white supremacist but I'll save that debate for another time. Take off your rose colored glasses. Try not to see the world as a straight white middle-American male and maybe you'll see why people of color, specifically Black people, tend to hate Trump.

White supremacy is far more than just the KKK and hate groups. Any white person in congress who ignores the hardships of POCs and supports/enacts policies that hurt POCs, are white supremacists. Mitch McConnell. Jason Lewis. Steve King. Jeff Sessions. The list goes on.

White extremists have caused more turmoil in America than any other race of extremists. Were Black, Muslim, Asian, etc extremists ever lynching and killing innocent Americans on the regular? No. I have no idea why you're focusing on those people when there's no denying it's white supremacists who are the most vocal hate group in this country.

The "real issue" is that people of color, specifically Black ones, have had their culture erased, have been killed in the most barbaric ways, and fear for their lives at the expense of white supremacy. This has gone on for centuries and it still remains. "Black supremacists" haven't done this to white people. We need to what we can, as white people, to help abolish white supremacy and defend people of color, instead of focus on the imaginary issue you've brought up.

 

[Northstar]

. Were Black, Muslim, Asian, etc extremists ever lynching and killing innocent Americans on the regular?

They flew planes into 3 buildings killing thousands in the process.

So if it's not widespread and doesn't have a lot of influence then why bring it up?

Because it's still something that needs to be addressed.

Try not to see the world as a straight white middle-American male and maybe you'll see why people of color, specifically Black people, tend to hate Trump.

And with that I'm done. I had hope that you would be a positive addition to this section, but if you're just going to go down the personal attack (note: I'm rather private so you have no idea if I'm a "straight white middle-american male") route I won't bother wasting either of our time.

 

[Turbo]

They flew planes into 3 buildings killing thousands in the process.



Because it's still something that needs to be addressed.



And with that I'm done. I had hope that you would be a positive addition to this section, but if you're just going to go down the personal attack (note: I'm rather private so you have no idea if I'm a "straight white middle-american male") route I won't bother wasting either of our time.

Totally not denying 9/11 but you sort of misunderstood me. My point was, it's not Muslim extremists who are actively harassing and killing POCs in America because of their race, like white supremacists do. Muslim extremists seem to kill any westerner, regardless of their race or identity.

We can address whatever "Black supremacy" there is once white supremacy, the more dominant and prevalent issue, is abolished. You can't possibly be denying that white supremacy is a much more significant problem than Black supremacy.

That wasn't a "personal attack". I didn't attack your appearance, race, religion, or call you a slur, nor did I try to trivialize anything you've said solely because of your identity. Well one, you are a midwestern male, and based on your political stances it's pretty safe to bet you're white. My point was, you should better understand how racial tensions have worsened because of Trump, and why marginalized peoples tend to think negatively of him.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So if it's not widespread and doesn't have a lot of influence then why bring it up? Only proves my point that you're just trying to take the attention off white supremacy groups by saying "but... what about the Black ones".

Trump is undoubedtly a white supremacist but I'll save that debate for another time. Take off your rose colored glasses. Try not to see the world as a straight white middle-American male and maybe you'll see why people of color, specifically Black people, tend to hate Trump.

White supremacy is far more than just the KKK and hate groups. Any white person in congress who ignores the hardships of POCs and supports/enacts policies that hurt POCs, are white supremacists. Mitch McConnell. Jason Lewis. Steve King. Jeff Sessions. The list goes on.

White extremists have caused more turmoil in America than any other race of extremists. Were Black, Muslim, Asian, etc extremists ever lynching and killing innocent Americans on the regular? No. I have no idea why you're focusing on those people when there's no denying it's white supremacists who are the most vocal hate group in this country.

The "real issue" is that people of color, specifically Black ones, have had their culture erased, have been killed in the most barbaric ways, and fear for their lives at the expense of white supremacy. This has gone on for centuries and it still remains. "Black supremacists" haven't done this to white people. We need to what we can, as white people, to help abolish white supremacy and defend people of color, instead of focus on the imaginary issue you've brought up.

What's your plan white person?

 

[Turbo]

What's your plan white person?

It's not rocket science. I'm not an adult yet so my options are more limited but:

• Support POC political candidates
• Vote out candidates who are racist.
• Protest all forms of racism, including going to BLM rallies.
• Become allies with POC, understanding their hardships.
• Donate to charities that are dedicated to uplifting POCs.
• Be an activist against white supremacy on social media.
• Support POC owned business/corporations.

The list goes on. As white people (the priviliged), it is our obligation to do what we can to help disadvantaged Americans like POCs.

 

[Northstar]

We can address whatever "Black supremacy" there is once white supremacy, the more dominant and prevalent issue, is abolished. You can't possibly be denying that white supremacy is a much more significant problem than Black supremacy.

I'm not and it sort of seems like the type of thing where it all needs to be addressed at once.

did I try to trivialize anything you've said solely because of your identity.

Actually, you kind of did.

Take off your rose colored glasses. Try not to see the world as a straight white middle-American male and maybe you'll see why people of color, specifically Black people, tend to hate Trump.

Well one, you are a midwestern male, and based on your political stances it's pretty safe to bet you're white.

I'm from the midwest, work HVAC, used to drive a PT Cruiser and I'm going to be 30 in March. That's all the personal information I've posted on this site in the 10 years I've been here (only 1 other person even knows what I look like). You presuming anything else is very much a personal attack in my mind and really has no place in a debate. I haven't brought any of your personal details into the discussion apart from using "kiddo" since I respect you. I don't think it's too much to ask for that same respect to be shown towards me.

 

[Joey D]

It's not rocket science. I'm not an adult yet so my options are more limited but:

• Support POC political candidates
• Vote out candidates who are racist.
• Protest all forms of racism, including going to BLM rallies.
• Become allies with POC, understanding their hardships.
• Donate to charities that are dedicated to uplifting POCs.
• Be an activist against white supremacy on social media.
• Support POC owned business/corporations.

The list goes on. As white people (the priviliged), it is our obligation to do what we can to help disadvantaged Americans like POCs.

I'm only supporting a POC candidate that supports the Constitution. Otherwise, they're just as awful as a white candidate that doesn't support the Constitution and don't deserve a vote. Case in point, some people voted for Obama solely because he's black and he turned out to be a pretty awful president all things considered (a horrible healthcare plan, multiple wars, taxes)

Also, I'm under no obligation to help the disadvantaged in America. Might I support a cause I agree with by volunteering time or donating money? Absolutely. But being obligated to help the disadvantage is exactly what Communism stems from.

 

[mustafur]

Is this what they are teaching in schools in 2018?

 

[Turbo]

I'm not and it sort of seems like the type of thing where it all needs to be addressed at once.



Actually, you kind of did.





I'm from the midwest, work HVAC, used to drive a PT Cruiser and I'm going to be 30 in March. That's all the personal information I've posted on this site in the 10 years I've been here (only 1 other person even knows what I look like). You presuming anything else is very much a personal attack in my mind and really has no place in a debate. I haven't brought any of your personal details into the discussion apart from using "kiddo" since I respect you. I don't think it's too much to ask for that same respect to be shown towards me.

Fair enough. But still, my point that we should try not to look through a Eurocentric point of view and see why marginalized people feel the way they feel still stands.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's not rocket science. I'm not an adult yet so my options are more limited but:

I had no idea.

Support POC political candidates

What if they aren't the best qualified candidate or the one who aligns with my political views? Should I still vote for them solely on their skin colour?

Vote out candidates who are racist.

According to your incorrect definition of racism or the real one?

Become allies with POC, understanding their hardships.

Is it even possible for whitey to understand the hardships of POC since we live in a Utopian world of privilege? How do you go about putting yourself in a position to understand POC when you are literally swimming in privilege?

Protest all forms of racism, including going to BLM rallies.

Should I join in the chants of "pigs in a blanket, fry em' like bacon" or is that only for POC?
By "all forms" you mean only white people racism, since no one else can be racist?
How exactly do rallies help POC?

Donate to charities that are dedicated to uplifting POCs.

What kind of charities are those?

Be an activist against white supremacy on social media.

You mean like with hashtags and stuff? Has that helped anyone? Examples?

Support POC owned business/corporations.

Usually the businesses that get my money are those that fulfill my needs at the best price. So you'd suggest taking my money and giving it to businesses owned by POC even if I don't need their products or they are higher priced? Like Affirmative Action kind of?

The list goes on. As white people (the priviliged), it is our obligation to do what we can to help disadvantaged Americans like POCs.

I'm still waiting to receive my privilege from my Asian friends so I can have some surplus privilege to give away.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Honestly @Turbo as someone of color I don't know what I fear more, a kid that is so whimsical in thought and ever changing that may even get more fringe like (one way or another). Who thinks that me and many other self-reliant and succeeding in life people of color need his help due to some self-destructive and sacrificing reason because someone or someones related history in a very narrow way. Or the racist that I can walk away from, and by the way I've only dealt with off handed racism a few times in my life, so this hardship again that me and people like me seem to be constantly facing is quite hard to find. Also those few times of racism, weren't always from white people but damn whoda thunk it.

Again I find it far more insulting that you suggest I'm disadvantaged, and think I, my family who are of color, friends who are of color and many others need this help we never requested. Furthermore, don't agree with and seem to be getting on just fine without. I know it's a limited group but so is the idea that BLM is the outcrop for all people of color.

 

[mustafur]

It's not rocket science. I'm not an adult yet so my options are more limited but:

• Support POC political candidates
• Vote out candidates who are racist.
• Protest all forms of racism, including going to BLM rallies.
• Become allies with POC, understanding their hardships.
• Donate to charities that are dedicated to uplifting POCs.
• Be an activist against white supremacy on social media.
• Support POC owned business/corporations.

The list goes on. As white people (the priviliged), it is our obligation to do what we can to help disadvantaged Americans like POCs.

Yeah, I'm not going to pity someone because they are not white, that is racist.

 

[McLaren]

There will always be extremists regardless of their race, but my point is, it's the white ones who are the biggest threat.

Cool, so you support profiling of Muslims as terrorists with this logic.