Why am I so slow?

[RavenR]

In GT Sport, I was pretty decent, in the A+ category but definitely not one of the top top drivers.

There were certain guys that were wheel users I could compete with in the high A, low A+ category & that always meant that with the right strategy for FIA events, or a bit of luck, or just a circuit I was really good at (like Monza) then i could possibly pick up a good haul of points & outperform where I'd expect to be (For instance finishing in the top 10 in a top split lobby when i should be 18th or something).

In GT7 I've been struggling on controller with adapting. I just feel like I cannot get on the power soon enough & was losing so much time to the top guys on wheels. At Monza a week or so ago I was alright though, i'd got on top of the car to some extent & could compete against A+s again.

Recently though, after this update... I'm getting crushed in B lobbies.

I feel like the cars I'm driving are suddenly ultra understeer cruise liners, even on +10steering on controller.

When I watch the top times, I can't even remotely do what they do, because they're able to do that powerslide into every corner thing on the wheel which is a nightmare to try & replicate on controller. Or they're blatantly corner cutting (like at Race B top time)... or they're just carrying so much more speed into the corner AND still able to turn fasterthan me AND get on the power sooner.

Sarthe is usually a circuit I could compete with the A+ guys at on GT Sport, often fighting for 1st -5th & within a few tengths of their qualifying.

There's a guy I've raced tonnes of times on GTSport called CTU Bear, from memory I think he's on a wheel but anyway, I was able to compete with him prtty much all the time in GTS, often in his lobbies for FIA. Recently I raced him a few times in GT7 at Sarthe this week,& I wasn't even within 7 seconds per lap of his qualifying time!, even in the race he could do a faster lap in a slow fuel map, than I could in FM1 (the best I can do is about 3:40.2 in the race for some reason).

I'm losing insane amounts of time & I cannot for the life of me figure out what has changed, or why it's affecting me this badly.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

because they're able to do that powerslide into every corner thing on the wheel which is a nightmare to try & replicate on controller.

It’s impossible to replicate on a wheel as well. There’s loads of the best guys on a controller. A lot of us have gone backwards in 7, the standard is just insane at the moment

 

[Barareklam]

In GT Sport, I was pretty decent, in the A+ category but definitely not one of the top top drivers.

There were certain guys that were wheel users I could compete with in the high A, low A+ category & that always meant that with the right strategy for FIA events, or a bit of luck, or just a circuit I was really good at (like Monza) then i could possibly pick up a good haul of points & outperform where I'd expect to be (For instance finishing in the top 10 in a top split lobby when i should be 18th or something).

In GT7 I've been struggling on controller with adapting. I just feel like I cannot get on the power soon enough & was losing so much time to the top guys on wheels. At Monza a week or so ago I was alright though, i'd got on top of the car to some extent & could compete against A+s again.

Recently though, after this update... I'm getting crushed in B lobbies.

I feel like the cars I'm driving are suddenly ultra understeer cruise liners, even on +10steering on controller.

When I watch the top times, I can't even remotely do what they do, because they're able to do that powerslide into every corner thing on the wheel which is a nightmare to try & replicate on controller. Or they're blatantly corner cutting (like at Race B top time)... or they're just carrying so much more speed into the corner AND still able to turn fasterthan me AND get on the power sooner.

Sarthe is usually a circuit I could compete with the A+ guys at on GT Sport, often fighting for 1st -5th & within a few tengths of their qualifying.

There's a guy I've raced tonnes of times on GTSport called CTU Bear, from memory I think he's on a wheel but anyway, I was able to compete with him prtty much all the time in GTS, often in his lobbies for FIA. Recently I raced him a few times in GT7 at Sarthe this week,& I wasn't even within 7 seconds per lap of his qualifying time!, even in the race he could do a faster lap in a slow fuel map, than I could in FM1 (the best I can do is about 3:40.2 in the race for some reason).

I'm losing insane amounts of time & I cannot for the life of me figure out what has changed, or why it's affecting me this badly.

When I read "I use +10 on controller" I assume you use stick on controller. I have been driving with stick, even before, gt6, GT sport, and even 7,then decided to give it a try, to motion (tilt) steering on controller. After a week or so to get used to it, my lap times are maybe even a second faster, on some laps. For me personally it's better way of steering, and I can react faster or more accurate, especially if in some corners I see I will lose the end, I can counter steer better.
(just to add, not answering your post, but I was playing GT7 on ps4 pro, and then I managed to get ps5, and even haptic feedback on dualsense controller gave me better feedback when I was driving and probably saved me in some situations when I was giving too much gas, now I could sense it in feedback and act accordingly, not that it improved my times I guess, but still...)

 

[Junkman55]

Sim racing and real racing has one thing in common you need good equipment to compete for a Win but like the real world there is always someone faster. If you are looking for a fantasy in racing competition you might be disappointed in GT7 for simulator racing. I think it’s the best for the money.

 

[JustMac]

I think that because the physics model is a bit more complex than GT Sport's, the gap between wheel and controller users has jumped up consideraby. Consider the likes of rFactor 2 and ACC -- unless you are particularly gifted, you would struggle to even keep most cars on track, let alone compete with wheel guys on a controller. Particularly traction control for some cars, where it's basically impossible to drive them at 0/1 on a controller, but quite manageable on a wheel (and, more to the point, faster).

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I think that because the physics model is a bit more complex than GT Sport's, the gap between wheel and controller users has jumped up consideraby. Consider the likes of rFactor 2 and ACC -- unless you are particularly gifted, you would struggle to even keep most cars on track, let alone compete with wheel guys on a controller. Particularly traction control for some cars, where it's basically impossible to drive them at 0/1 on a controller, but quite manageable on a wheel (and, more to the point, faster).

I've seen Fraga compare wheel and controller (sticks) on S-10 and times are similar (shows his skill, in fact).

However, at World Championship level, 2:22 or 2:23 is actually still a fair bit off the very best! Miyazono posted a 2:19 (yes, TWO ****ing NINETEEN) on his Twitter account. As comparison, I'm at 2:24 on the DualSense with sticks (this was pre-1.13).

So maybe Fraga could do a 2:19 on wheel as well but could be close to the limit on controller (dropping to 2:21 or so).

Controller is always at disadvantage in GT now unfortunately. Not as strong prebuilt assists as other games. No speed boost with manual and clutch. However, a 7-second disadvantage probably means the OP is not used to the physics yet. 1.13 changed them yet again.

 

[Keef]

In GT Sport, I was pretty decent, in the A+ category but definitely not one of the top top drivers.

There were certain guys that were wheel users I could compete with in the high A, low A+ category & that always meant that with the right strategy for FIA events, or a bit of luck, or just a circuit I was really good at (like Monza) then i could possibly pick up a good haul of points & outperform where I'd expect to be (For instance finishing in the top 10 in a top split lobby when i should be 18th or something).

In GT7 I've been struggling on controller with adapting. I just feel like I cannot get on the power soon enough & was losing so much time to the top guys on wheels. At Monza a week or so ago I was alright though, i'd got on top of the car to some extent & could compete against A+s again.

Recently though, after this update... I'm getting crushed in B lobbies.

I feel like the cars I'm driving are suddenly ultra understeer cruise liners, even on +10steering on controller.

When I watch the top times, I can't even remotely do what they do, because they're able to do that powerslide into every corner thing on the wheel which is a nightmare to try & replicate on controller. Or they're blatantly corner cutting (like at Race B top time)... or they're just carrying so much more speed into the corner AND still able to turn fasterthan me AND get on the power sooner.

Sarthe is usually a circuit I could compete with the A+ guys at on GT Sport, often fighting for 1st -5th & within a few tengths of their qualifying.

There's a guy I've raced tonnes of times on GTSport called CTU Bear, from memory I think he's on a wheel but anyway, I was able to compete with him prtty much all the time in GTS, often in his lobbies for FIA. Recently I raced him a few times in GT7 at Sarthe this week,& I wasn't even within 7 seconds per lap of his qualifying time!, even in the race he could do a faster lap in a slow fuel map, than I could in FM1 (the best I can do is about 3:40.2 in the race for some reason).

I'm losing insane amounts of time & I cannot for the life of me figure out what has changed, or why it's affecting me this badly.

Use TCS 1.

Actually, before I even settled for TCS 1, I had managed to raise my DR in GT7. During the two years I played GTS I was only ever a B-rated gamepad driver and just began seeing As in the lobby every now and then. Literally a week into GT7 and I had adapted to the new handling model pretty well and became an A driver and now seeing A+ in the lobbies occasionally.

Eventually I simply got tired of the various car models that were - and still are - basically undriveable on gamepad so I settled for TCS as standard. The 1.13 update kind threw a wrench in that and I'm finding some strange behaviors now, basically having to relearn the handling model. I don't like the change, frankly. I had gotten rather good at managing oversteer previously and it seemed to be my advantage that raised my DR quickly.

Anyways, the proper method of dealing with understeer is slow in, fast out. And if you're not using TCS 1 - which is a somewhat realistic setting for GT3 cars anyway - then just get gud on the throttle, idk what else to say. Pre-1.13 it was a delicate balancing act.

 

[RavenR]

Use TCS 1.

Actually, before I even settled for TCS 1, I had managed to raise my DR in GT7. During the two years I played GTS I was only ever a B-rated gamepad driver and just began seeing As in the lobby every now and then. Literally a week into GT7 and I had adapted to the new handling model pretty well and became an A driver and now seeing A+ in the lobbies occasionally.

Eventually I simply got tired of the various car models that were - and still are - basically undriveable on gamepad so I settled for TCS as standard. The 1.13 update kind threw a wrench in that and I'm finding some strange behaviors now, basically having to relearn the handling model. I don't like the change, frankly. I had gotten rather good at managing oversteer previously and it seemed to be my advantage that raised my DR quickly.

Anyways, the proper method of dealing with understeer is slow in, fast out. And if you're not using TCS 1 - which is a somewhat realistic setting for GT3 cars anyway - then just get gud on the throttle, idk what else to say. Pre-1.13 it was a delicate balancing act.

I've used No TC for probably 5 years now, I only rarely switch TC1 on for starts, or if there's a particularly difficult car at a specific corner or set of corners really, traditionally it's always been faster to be without TC.

It's not like I'm "ability slow" or using a bunch of assists.

I was A+/S hovering around 50-60K DR on GTS, & after I got used to the GT7 vs GTS difference, I started to find myself often racing against A+ again, racking up wins at Monza against them last week (or the week before ).

But this week I just got a chance to do a few races yesterday & I'm WAY OFF, & the cars feel horrible to drive. They all feel like they've got understeer & they all feel heavy to me. At Sarthe, I'm usually within 1 -2 seconds of the top times & I feel that's pretty reasonable on a controller, manual with no assists.
At Sarthe this week on GT7, I'm 7 seconds away from the top times.

Something in this update has affected me, or the way I approach the circuit & suddenly means I'm significantly slower than I have the capability to be.

That's why I put the little segment about that guy I was racing against... He's someone (along with some other A+ drivers) that I'm able to measure myself against to understand "how far away I am at a particular circuit"... For instance if I'm way behind that guy, I know there's time to be found on the circuit that I'm capable of finding.

Everyone was saying they've gotten faster since this update, but not me, I have become slower & I feel like I'm driving understeer ships. Again, I don't use any assists (I think ABS on default thats all) & I'm on manual on controller sticks (I turned haptic feedback off because it's a gimmick imo that isn't great for anything competitive.)

 

[RavenR]

I've seen Fraga compare wheel and controller (sticks) on S-10 and times are similar (shows his skill, in fact).

However, at World Championship level, 2:22 or 2:23 is actually still a fair bit off the very best! Miyazono posted a 2:19 (yes, TWO ****ing NINETEEN) on his Twitter account. As comparison, I'm at 2:24 on the DualSense with sticks (this was pre-1.13).

So maybe Fraga could do a 2:19 on wheel as well but could be close to the limit on controller (dropping to 2:21 or so).

Controller is always at disadvantage in GT now unfortunately. Not as strong prebuilt assists as other games. No speed boost with manual and clutch. However, a 7-second disadvantage probably means the OP is not used to the physics yet. 1.13 changed them yet again.

Yeah the controller has always been a disadvantage, but I'm not here to argue that, it just is a reality & that's a variable I always consider when racing against some people.

There's the talent difference, & the hardware difference , but those right now aren't what I'm bothered by. It's something with this update that is just making me significantly slower than I was before it, & I can't pinpoint why.

 

[Sarajevo89]

Are you saying we should all lower the sensitivity to -10 because I got used to neutral (0) and feeling good at it. I'm scared of change.

 

[RavenR]

Are you saying we should all lower the sensitivity to -10 because I got used to neutral (0) and feeling good at it. I'm scared of change.

+10 not -

Even +10 on controller the cars still feel like they understeer.

 

[pedrocor]

I've used No TC for probably 5 years now, I only rarely switch TC1 on for starts, or if there's a particularly difficult car at a specific corner or set of corners really, traditionally it's always been faster to be without TC.

This is the answer.
Forget the last five years, you are playing GT7, just cut your umbilical cord to GT Sport. They look alike but they aren't the same game.
You engraved in stone in your mind that no TCS is faster, which could be true in GTS but certainly isn't in GT7 physics.
Just like brake distribution just don't work the same way also.
There are so many little stuff in new physics and tire model that make you lose a lot more time without TC ( like temporary reduced grip on dirt tires from touching grass or dirt and so...)
Others understood that and are way faster than you now, from what you are saying.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

On some cars, I'm find tcs 1 to be overly intrusive so I still have to manage the throttle when cornering. Otherwise it kills some speed. Like on the Bathurst circuit experience I had to turn it down to 0. I'm don't know if I would be able to manage gold with TCS, but I'm assuming I would just need more practice.

 

[RavenR]

This is the answer.
Forget the last five years, you are playing GT7, just cut your umbilical cord to GT Sport. They look alike but they aren't the same game.
You engraved in stone in your mind that no TCS is faster, which could be true in GTS but certainly isn't in GT7 physics.
Just like brake distribution just don't work the same way also.
There are so many little stuff in new physics and tire model that make you lose a lot more time without TC ( like temporary reduced grip on dirt tires from touching grass or dirt and so...)
Others understood that and are way faster than you now, from what you are saying.

Except it's only since the recent update that I'm significantly struggling, & that's an update which seems to have massively increased traction & every car now feels like it understeers.

If traction control was the solution as you suggested, then it would've been the solution pre-patch, in an environment where throttle control was more important, not post-patch.

But it's not the case, as I was noticeably faster without traction control on pre-patch. All gold CE/licenses, all done without traction with the exception of the wet circuits especially S10.

I believe it's faster without TC, because in most circumstances, it just is. You're not getting bogged down coming out of corners, & there's a reason all the fastest guys that set all the best times, do not use TC. I've only seen one guy in the last month use any assist (not including ABS) & that was a fellow Nissan manu player who set the fastest Nissan time for Daytona using countersteer which i thought was interesting.

But yea, it's nothing to do with traction control, ESPECIALLY post-patch. When I watch the replays after a race, the guys at the front are not using TC.

It's something with the approach that's costing me time/placement of the car + the insane understeer that means I simply cannot hold the same speed as someone on a wheel through certain corners.

 

[Hobson]

I honestly think it's something to do with the background assists for the controller in the game. I'm having similar issues trying to hustle cars without them catching massive understeer after the patch on 10 sensitivity too. I went from being able to get top 10 anywhere with enough time to being stuck 1-2 seconds off everywhere, after hours or practice. I just put the whole idea on the back burner at this point, always feels like I'm fighting for my life to gain time.

I'm also A+ no assists besides default abs, etc etc

 

[Keef]

I've used No TC for probably 5 years now, I only rarely switch TC1 on for starts, or if there's a particularly difficult car at a specific corner or set of corners really, traditionally it's always been faster to be without TC.

It's not like I'm "ability slow" or using a bunch of assists.

I was A+/S hovering around 50-60K DR on GTS, & after I got used to the GT7 vs GTS difference, I started to find myself often racing against A+ again, racking up wins at Monza against them last week (or the week before ).

But this week I just got a chance to do a few races yesterday & I'm WAY OFF, & the cars feel horrible to drive. They all feel like they've got understeer & they all feel heavy to me. At Sarthe, I'm usually within 1 -2 seconds of the top times & I feel that's pretty reasonable on a controller, manual with no assists.
At Sarthe this week on GT7, I'm 7 seconds away from the top times.

Something in this update has affected me, or the way I approach the circuit & suddenly means I'm significantly slower than I have the capability to be.

That's why I put the little segment about that guy I was racing against... He's someone (along with some other A+ drivers) that I'm able to measure myself against to understand "how far away I am at a particular circuit"... For instance if I'm way behind that guy, I know there's time to be found on the circuit that I'm capable of finding.

Everyone was saying they've gotten faster since this update, but not me, I have become slower & I feel like I'm driving understeer ships. Again, I don't use any assists (I think ABS on default thats all) & I'm on manual on controller sticks (I turned haptic feedback off because it's a gimmick imo that isn't great for anything competitive.)

I'm not sure how many people have gotten faster honestly. It depends on the cars they choose to drive because PD seems to have chosen specific cars to adjust in 1.13. I mentioned that I'm also getting used to the 1.13 physics model and I don't think it's been improved. I personally liked it the way it was, but then again I was one of few who actually liked the delicate oversteer.

I think most people are just used to the way GTS handled and were expecting the same. I thought GT7's original model, while a bit extreme on oversteer, had a ton more fidelity to it than GTS. 1.13 seems to have taken away a lot of that fidelity for me but I haven't had enough playtime to see if I'm faster or slower. Since the first week or two I haven't been very active in daily races, merely experimenting with other cars and earning credits.

 

[half_sourly]

At Sarthe this week on GT7, I'm 7 seconds away from the top times.

Some times were set before 1.13, which took 50hp from the Merc, so the top times of 3:30 were not representative. See @Mistah_MCA's track guide where he is almost 4 seconds off his pre-update time.

 

[xMAXIx79]

In GT Sport, I was pretty decent, in the A+ category but definitely not one of the top top drivers.

There were certain guys that were wheel users I could compete with in the high A, low A+ category & that always meant that with the right strategy for FIA events, or a bit of luck, or just a circuit I was really good at (like Monza) then i could possibly pick up a good haul of points & outperform where I'd expect to be (For instance finishing in the top 10 in a top split lobby when i should be 18th or something).

In GT7 I've been struggling on controller with adapting. I just feel like I cannot get on the power soon enough & was losing so much time to the top guys on wheels. At Monza a week or so ago I was alright though, i'd got on top of the car to some extent & could compete against A+s again.

Recently though, after this update... I'm getting crushed in B lobbies.

I feel like the cars I'm driving are suddenly ultra understeer cruise liners, even on +10steering on controller.

When I watch the top times, I can't even remotely do what they do, because they're able to do that powerslide into every corner thing on the wheel which is a nightmare to try & replicate on controller. Or they're blatantly corner cutting (like at Race B top time)... or they're just carrying so much more speed into the corner AND still able to turn fasterthan me AND get on the power sooner.

Sarthe is usually a circuit I could compete with the A+ guys at on GT Sport, often fighting for 1st -5th & within a few tengths of their qualifying.

There's a guy I've raced tonnes of times on GTSport called CTU Bear, from memory I think he's on a wheel but anyway, I was able to compete with him prtty much all the time in GTS, often in his lobbies for FIA. Recently I raced him a few times in GT7 at Sarthe this week,& I wasn't even within 7 seconds per lap of his qualifying time!, even in the race he could do a faster lap in a slow fuel map, than I could in FM1 (the best I can do is about 3:40.2 in the race for some reason).

I'm losing insane amounts of time & I cannot for the life of me figure out what has changed, or why it's affecting me this badly.

Even if it sounds clumsy, it shouldn't be clumsy, I just don't have the time to write it more precisely now..

My guess is... You're braking incorrectly... It's usually not the problem with the steering and the gas pedal isn't always to blame either, but what I've noticed lately is that braking too late/too hard is often more the case took time than going into the corner cleanly with efficient TrailBrake.

I had a 3.36.5xx in LeMans in the C races with the Motul Nissan.. not a great time either, but as a B driver it was perfectly acceptable for me.